And I thought the ones without lights were bad.

Effects

A lot of these guys cycle around without lights and up one way streets in a dangerous fashion.

I understand everyone's got to make a living but surely Deliveroo have some sort of responsibility for this?

EDIT: Image added with blurred face to make sure driver is not identified.

Lumen

Ha! That dude almost clipped me yesterday as I was walking along the footpath on Camden St.

For the sake of clarity, that bike has a petrol engine.

ILLEGAL! OVERRATED! BUILD A WALL!

Effects

You can even see the exhaust fumes on this one.
Also looks like he has a speedo on his wheel.

ted1

Effects wrote: »

You can even see the exhaust on this one.

Look at the drive train on the far side of the motorbike.

punisher5112

There has to be something done as these fools can get up to great speeds and hit someone and cycle off. No insurance or lights or any identifying marks apart from deliveroo they should have to have an identity number on there box or jacket.

Obviously not just these guys using motors I've seen quite a few teens flying about town on them.

Beasty

Effects wrote: »

IMAGE REMOVED

A lot of these guys cycle around without lights and up one way streets in a dangerous fashion.

I understand everyone's got to make a living but surely Deliveroo have some sort of responsibility for this?

Recent UK case determined they have employment rights over there. Any complaints should be directed to the company (or Guards)

punisher5112

I love the way he knew you were taking a pic.

Effects

ted1 wrote: »

Look at the drive train on the far side of the motorbike.

I mean you can see that the engine's clearly running on this one.
I've seen these being sold at various "expo" shows where they tell people they are totally legal and need no tax or insurance.
I've seen these go past Gardai and they don't bother looking at them.

punisher5112

Effects wrote: »

I mean you can see that the engine's clearly running on this one.
I've seen these being sold at various "expo" shows where they tell people they are totally legal and need no tax or insurance.
I've seen these go past Gardai and they don't bother looking at them.

There were real from the factory types of these years ago like the NSU but these are all strap onto anything types now. These bikes are not designed for this and I can predict some serious injuries or deaths caused due to there use.

Gaurds aren't interested as technically not illegal once under 49cc but a lot can be around the 80cc mark.

Cheap way of getting around.

Pigeon Reaper

Quite a few around at the moment. Dodgy as hell as the brakes won't be up to stopping them. They're also quite smokey and smelly. The good news is that the engines are so badly made they don't last long before a breakage occurs internally.

Effects

punisher5112 wrote: »

Gaurds aren't interested as technically not illegal once under 49cc but a lot can be around the 80cc mark.

I don't think that's actually the case. They need to be taxed and insured.

Effects

The Road Traffic Act 1961 at Section 3(1) (a) and (b) defines a mechanically propelled vehicle as:- “a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means, including— ( a ) a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used, ( b ) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical, but not including a tramcar or other vehicle running on permanent rails;

Road traffic law lays down a range of requirements which must be satisfied in relation to both the vehicle and the driver in order to use a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place. A vehicle, when in use in a public place, must comply with the requirements of the Road Traffic (Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles) Regulations 1963 to 2002, the Road Traffic (Construction and Use of Vehicles) Regulations 2003 to 2004 and the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations 1963 to 1996. These regulations prescribe the requirements in relation to essential matters such as brakes, steering, mirrors, safety belts, safety glass, headlamps, rear lighting, indicators, reflectors, etc.

In addition when a mechanically propelled vehicle is registered for use on the road it must comply with European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval 2002/24/EC and a Certificate of Conformity will be required when applying for registration. Compliance with such approval ensures that the vehicle meets minimum agreed EC safety and environmental standards. S.I. 412 of 2005 transposes 2002/24/EC into Irish law.

EC Directive 2002/24/EC (as amended) contains in its scope electric vehicles. Revenue currently require that all mopeds, motorcycles, trikes and quads registered in Ireland must have a EC Certificate of Conformity to EC Directive 2002/24/EC (as amended). This certificate of conformity is supplied by the vehicle manufacturer and produced at vehicle registration. In the event of a vehicle not having an EC CoC, an application should be made by the vehicle manufacturer to the relevant approval authorities. The manufacturer submits prototype(s) of the vehicle type representative to the approval authorities. If the prototype(s) pass the requirements of the Directive (2002/24/EC), individual CoC’s can be issued by the manufacturer for each representative sample manufactured. A driving licence is required in order to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place and electrically propelled mopeds with a maximum design speed of 45km/hr or less would require a Category M driving licence. The driver of a motor cycle (including scooters) and a passenger carried on the motor are required to each wear a crash helmet while the motor cycle is used in a public place. It is a further requirement of road traffic law for use of a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place that the driver has third party insurance cover to meet personal injury and property damage caused by their negligent driving.

punisher5112

Effects wrote: »

I don't think that's actually the case. They need to be taxed and insured.

No they don't unless can do above such a speed and engine capacity.

Hence cops don't care.

Pigeon Reaper

MAG Ireland Article

Here's some good info on the legalities from the main motorcycling group in Ireland. Essentially they're illegal unless registered, taxed and insured. I have heard of Gardai seizing them. I've seen three of these in the past week with one guy almost killing himself as he couldn't stop it. Electric bikes would be a better all round choice but they currently cost more than the €400 you can pick one of the motorized BSO up for.

CramCycle

MOD VOICE: Image removed, you are accusing him without the right to reply or even providing proof. If this specific rider is your issue, report him to the Gardai. Otherwise, carry on.

punisher5112

I'm sure if face is removed picture would be OK just as an example.

Effects

punisher5112 wrote: »

No they don't unless can do above such a speed and engine capacity.

Hence cops don't care.

So surely that would be the case if I just got a moped and had the speed limited on it. I wouldn't need tax or insurance.

Effects

I complained and they responded fairly quickly:

Thank you for bringing this incident to our attention.

Deliveroo takes all rider complaints extremely seriously since the public is our most important consideration. We expect the highest levels of professionalism and service from all our rider partners, including adhering to the Highway Code at all times.

I apologise unreservedly for any distress caused to you that may have arisen from this situation. It is clear that the standards we expect were not met on this occasion and this is, in no uncertain terms, completely unacceptable.

I have recorded your feedback for our Rider Operations team who will work with our rider partners to follow up this matter. Our Rider Operations team will ensure that we take the appropriate steps to prevent, as far as practicable, any reoccurrence of these issues in the future.

If you do have any further concerns, please let me know so we may investigate further.

Kind regards,

Billy
Customer Support

punisher5112

Effects wrote: »

So surely that would be the case if I just got a moped and had the speed limited on it. I wouldn't need tax or insurance.

No because the cc of the engine dictates that. Mopeds can do 50km/h or over.

Power output also dictates whether it needs a plate, insurance etc.

As I said already you could get these bike from factory my dad had one years ago made by NSU and had pedals on it so one would need to pedal to get it moving 1st.

Lumen

punisher5112 wrote: »

No because the cc of the engine dictates that. Mopeds can do 50km/h or over.

Power output also dictates whether it needs a plate, insurance etc.

As I said already you could get these bike from factory my dad had one years ago made by NSU and had pedals on it so one would need to pedal to get it moving 1st.

Please quote or provide links to the law which gives special exemptions to small-engined motorcycles.

tomasrojo

Effects wrote: »

I complained and they responded fairly quickly:

Thank you for bringing this incident to our attention.

Deliveroo takes all rider complaints extremely seriously since the public is our most important consideration. We expect the highest levels of professionalism and service from all our rider partners, including adhering to the Highway Code at all times.

Looks like boilerplate. And UK boilerplate at that.

eeguy

tomasrojo wrote: »

Looks like boilerplate. And UK boilerplate at that.

Billy is probably not his real name either

tomasrojo

punisher5112 wrote: »

As I said already you could get these bike from factory my dad had one years ago made by NSU and had pedals on it so one would need to pedal to get it moving 1st.

That probably was a proper moped (in the original sense of the word). They're properly set up for greater forces and speeds, unlike a mountain bike with a petrol engine Frankensteined onto it.

punisher5112

This is how they are getting away at the moment as its still a pedal powered bike. It technically needs one to pedal 1st to get going.

jon1981

I overtook one of these fools the other day with pure pedal power, the look on his face... priceless

ted1

punisher5112 wrote: »

This is how they are getting away at the moment as its still a pedal powered bike. It technically needs one to pedal 1st to get going.

No it's not pedal power , the engine works regardless of weather they are pedalling


Pedal power clause is only for electric bikes

) cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25 kW of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedalling, and

magicbastarder

Deliveroo wrote: »

We expect the highest levels of professionalism and service from all our rider partners, including adhering to the Highway Code at all times.

do they pay them accordingly?

punisher5112

ted1 wrote: »

No it's not pedal power , the engine works regardless of weather they are pedalling

It still has pedals attached and read what I said. Nowhere did I say they must keep pedalling.

ted1

punisher5112 wrote: »

There were real from the factory types of these years ago like the NSU but these are all strap onto anything types now. These bikes are not designed for this and I can predict some serious injuries or deaths caused due to there use.

Gaurds aren't interested as technically not illegal once under 49cc but a lot can be around the 80cc mark.

Cheap way of getting around.

You sir are talking through your hoop.
If it's below 50CC it's a moped
**********
“moped” means a two-wheel vehicle (category L1e) or a three-wheel vehicle (category L2e) with a maximum design speed of not more than 45 km/h and characterised by—

(a) in the case of a two-wheel type, an engine whose:

(i) cylinder capacity does not exceed 50 cm3 in the case of the internal combustion engine type,
**************

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2005/si/412/made/en/print

punisher5112

magicbastarder wrote: »

do they pay them accordingly?

Don't understand the big craze for all these but the company is making a killing off the peddlers.

ted1

punisher5112 wrote: »

It still has pedals attached and read what I said. Nowhere did I say they must keep pedalling.

But you alluded to it being a bike because it still has pedals, and the only legislation which is in anyway relevant covers e-bikes where the engine only operates while it's being pedalling.

Bottom line is that they are illegal and you have no idea of the law.

Wishbone Ash

punisher5112 wrote: »

....Cheap way of getting around.

I can think of a much cheaper way!

punisher5112

ted1 wrote: »

You sir are talking through your hoop.
If it's below 50CC it's a moped
**********
“moped” means a two-wheel vehicle (category L1e) or a three-wheel vehicle (category L2e) with a maximum design speed of not more than 45 km/h and characterised by—

(a) in the case of a two-wheel type, an engine whose:

(i) cylinder capacity does not exceed 50 cm3 in the case of the internal combustion engine type,
**************

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2005/si/412/made/en/print

Hold on if I took out a NSU which has pedals and an engine I could happily go around on it without any of what you say.

Wishbone Ash

Incidentally, there was a agent from Deliveroo in the bike park in Drury Street recently trying to recruit cyclists. He got me on a bad day and I had a right go at him about the appalling conduct of many of their delivery cyclists. Felt bad about it afterwards as he was ever so polite and just doing his job.

Lumen

punisher5112 wrote: »

Hold on if I took out a NSU which has pedals and an engine I could happily go around on it without any of what you say.

Please cite a source for this information. I think you're just making it up.

Beasty

eeguy wrote: »

Billy is probably not his real name either

Agree. Reckon it may be William...

Eamonnator

punisher5112 wrote: »

Hold on if I took out a NSU which has pedals and an engine I could happily go around on it without any of what you say.

Indeed you could, but you would be committing numerous offences.

ted1

punisher5112 wrote: »

Hold on if I took out a NSU which has pedals and an engine I could happily go around on it without any of what you say.

Not according to the law , it's the same law that stops kids pushing cars around town.

It's a mechanical propelled vehicle and as such requires registration, tax, insurance, licence.

mrcheez

Lumen wrote: »

Ha! That dude almost clipped me yesterday as I was walking along the footpath on Camden St.

For the sake of clarity, that bike has a petrol engine.

ILLEGAL! OVERRATED! BUILD A WALL!

Really do not appreciate you starting any thread singling out "Deliveroos"





:P *

Beasty

mrcheez wrote: »

Really do not appreciate you starting any thread singling out "Deliveroos"

He didn't start it and I'm not on their books

mrcheez

a lot of em are foreigners though

*ducks*

ted1

mrcheez wrote: »

a lot of em are foreigners though

*ducks*

If I order a Chinese or Mexican, I'd be upset if I got an Irish.

Daroxtar

mrcheez wrote: »

a lot of em are foreigners though

*ducks*

Foreign Ducks cycling around delivering stuff????

Thud

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Incidentally, there was a agent from Deliveroo in the bike park in Drury Street recently trying to recruit cyclists. He got me on a bad day and I had a right go at him about the appalling conduct of many of their delivery cyclists. Felt bad about it afterwards as he was ever so polite and just doing his job.

But you could cover all North Dublin and Wicklow deliveries for them

Eponymous

Daroxtar wrote: »

Foreign Ducks cycling around delivering stuff????

"Der tekken ar jobs" say the pigeons

cjt156

ted1 wrote: »

If I order a Chinese or Mexican, I'd be upset if I got an Irish.

Probably why my Coddle_U_Like delivery service never took off...

check_six

I have some sympathy for the Deliveroonians. They are almost uniformly ill prepared for the job they are trying to do. They are trying to grind around on badly maintained bike shaped objects which are not up to the amount of punishment that they will have to endure cycling around day after day in all conditions. Lights are pretty poorly if they are in situ at all. I'd guess that the riders are badly paid and, under such conditions, getting the money together to buy better lights and maintain your bike must be really difficult.

I'd also guess that the riders don't stick at it for very long either because if your bike breaks down, you may not have the wherewithal to get it back on the road. Plus it may be the middle of the night with no way of getting bike parts.

I met a Deliveroongian at the end of my street with the bike upside down and a puzzled look on their face. I checked to see if he needed a hand and discovered that he was trying to fix a puncture. The device he was trying to fix it with was a football pump with a football style needle nozzle! I patched up the tube and reinflated it with my track pump (an object that inspired deep wonder in the misfortunate). As I sent him on his way I knew that he would inevitably get another puncture in the future and there wouldn't be anyone around to help him out and that would be the end of his Deliveroogling. Poignant really.

There was one time I saw a Deliveroobot that looked superficially like they knew what they were at and had a decent looking bike. He zipped up to a restaurant, rested the bike against the wall, and walked directly inside. No lock! No scan of the street. No nothing. Just plonked the bike down and walked straight in. In the city centre. Poor flecker will get a horrible shock one day when the bike takes off without him on it.

I don't know if there is any way the different riders can help each other out or if they have any contact with each other. It does look like they are just thrown to the wolves each day and if they survive they can be kicked back into the arena again the following day for another go.

Lumen

If this was a regular company they'd be supplying fit for purpose branded bicycles for the job (like An Post), and teaching their employees to do simple roadside repairs.

So I think the simplest explanation is that Deliveroo are exploitative regulation-dodging bastoids sucking on the souls of the working poor.

ted1

Lumen wrote: »

If this was a regular company they'd be supplying fit for purpose branded bicycles for the job (like An Post), and teaching their employees to do simple roadside repairs.

So I think the simplest explanation is that Deliveroo are exploitative regulation-dodging bastoids sucking on the souls of the working poor.

They'd also be giving PPE. Lights would be considered PPE.

tomasrojo

Yeah, getting to and from work (total daily time in saddle probably forty minutes to an hour on average) is a far cry from doing deliveries all day. Based on my BSO years, your meagre wages self-employed income will start getting eaten by the cost of replacing parts.

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot for a moment to pretend that Deliveroo is a platform, like eBay, facilitating a free exchange of money between a party seeking a service and a party offering that service.

Alanstrainor

http://www.banggood.com/60cc-2-Stroke-Motorized-Bicycle-Cycle-Petrol-Gas-Engine-Motor-Kit-p-988166.html?rmmds=search

This is the kit you see around for the most part. It's over 50cc, so larger than a moped class. You're in A1 territory as far as licensing.

I would still love to build it and give it a go, legality aside!