Application to build a Lidl in Douglas village

two wheels good

A planning application to build a Lidl in Barry's Field Douglas has been submitted.
That's the field bounded by the Old Carraigline Road, Churchyard lane and the graveyard.

Examiner article here. Just a brief mention:
"The plans are for a two-acre site in Douglas East, at Barry’s Field, between Carrigaline Road and Churchyard Lane. Lidl Ireland is seeking permission from Cork County Council for the 1,690-square-metre supermarket, with staff facilities and office in a partial second-storey building.
A provision for parking for 110 cars is also proposed, with the entrance for motorists from the one-way Carrigaline Road and access from Churchyard Lane for pedestrians, also."

The application should be available online from the County Council website but it seems to require the download of a dedicated vewing application.

Note: It's County Council territory but I thought this information would be more relevant to City "readers".

Yet more traffic for Douglas, and this time the Main Street will take the brunt of it.

kub

I wonder will Cork County Council see beyond the rates income here?

It is going to create a lot of traffic in that part of the village.
I must say how that field was not built on during the Celtic tiger years is a mystery.

Which retailer was it that wanted to build in the Cinema site ?

run_Forrest_run

two wheels good wrote: »

Yet more traffic for Douglas, and this time the Main Street will take the brunt of it.

pity because the main street has become nice and quiet since the road alongside the Douglas Village SC was built.

pwurple

Great! I really hope they get it. That's the empty field behind the graveyard I think.. near st lukes school and behind eco's. I like the fresh bread section they have in the Lidls, Aldi's bread is really crappy. 
The nearest lidl around the city is where.... togher? There's one on Cornmarket street in the city center and another one in Ballyvolane. Is there another one somewhere? 
Aldi have shops in Mahon, Douglas, Ballphehane and the Elysian in town, 2 more in ballincollig, 1 in mayfield and maybe blackpool as well?
Hope they think about bus routes.

boardsuser1

pwurple wrote: »

Great! I really hope they get it. That's the empty field behind the graveyard I think.. near st lukes school and behind eco's. I like the fresh bread section they have in the Lidls, Aldi's bread is really crappy.
The nearest lidl around the city is where.... togher? There's one on Cornmarket street in the city center and another one in Ballyvolane. Is there another one somewhere?
Aldi have shops in Mahon, Douglas, Ballphehane and the Elysian in town, 2 more in ballincollig, 1 in mayfield and maybe blackpool as well?
Hope they think about bus routes.

You should see the development on their churchfield site, well holy god it's some size. far bigger than its predecessor.

Dbu

pwurple wrote: »

Great! I really hope they get it. That's the empty field behind the graveyard I think.. near st lukes school and behind eco's. I like the fresh bread section they have in the Lidls, Aldi's bread is really crappy.
The nearest lidl around the city is where.... togher? There's one on Cornmarket street in the city center and another one in Ballyvolane. Is there another one somewhere?
Aldi have shops in Mahon, Douglas, Ballphehane and the Elysian in town, 2 more in ballincollig, 1 in mayfield and maybe blackpool as well?
Hope they think about bus routes.

Lidl are in Carrigaline
This would be a traffice nightmare if allowed to go ahead. 40 ft Trucks delivering on a 1 way street. where will the exit?

pwurple

Era they deliver at 5am, 6am etc, not peak times. The world won't end if there's a truck going through douglas at 5am.  I'll have a look at the planning application later, see what the access routes planned are. They might be changing the entrances

boardsuser1

pwurple wrote: »

Era they deliver at 5am, 6am etc, not peak times. The world won't end if there's a truck going through douglas at 5am. I'll have a look at the planning application later, see what the access routes planned are. They might be changing the entrances

Trucks reversing at that hour might be an issue.

When I was delivering to Dunnes in Ballincollig they were so inundated with complaints of trucks reversing they had to push the delivery times back by 2 hours.

This place will be worse.

Dbu

pwurple wrote: »

Era they deliver at 5am, 6am etc, not peak times. The world won't end if there's a truck going through douglas at 5am. I'll have a look at the planning application later, see what the access routes planned are. They might be changing the entrances

Problem is they dont deliver at 5,6am
TKMax case in point, have you ever seen that truck in the morning next to Palmento?
Also the county councils feck up of the road approaching barrys...left, right.....footpaths are wider than the road

pwurple

Yes, concerns are sensible, but maybe hold off on writing it off wholesale until actually looking at the plans? 
From what I remember of the previous plan they submitted, there were 3 separate entrances, and something about demolishing one of the houses and making that a large entrance, does anyone else remember? The new plans are available online, but you have to install the viewer. I'll see if I can grab a few screenshots and will stick them here when I get a chance to look at it.

kingtut

That application was up at least 2 months ago, then the sign vanished and reappeared about 3 weeks ago. I was wondering what was going on!

Dbu

If you remember Dino has applied for a drivethrough also across from that. (large house on its own) Taking away 1 or 2 of the house on tramway terrace as an entrance.

kingtut

Anyone know what is being built beside the roundabout near the tesco drive through?

Dbu

kingtut wrote: »

Anyone know what is being built beside the roundabout near the tesco drive through?

KFC near Mcdonalds...that the roundabout you are on about?

kingtut

Dbu wrote: »

KFC near Mcdonalds...that the roundabout you are on about?

Yup thanks

boardsuser1

Formal objection lodged by Tesco.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/tesco-objects-to-lidl-store-at-douglas-458556.html

beer enigma

Gotta love their timing......means Tesco will get another Christmas without Lidl competition

boardsuser1

beer enigma wrote: »

Gotta love their timing......means Tesco will get another Christmas without Lidl competition

All part of the plan no doubt!

They succeeded in stopping a Lidl or Aldi up the country though!

What is the general opinion of Douglas residents?

For or Against?

Dbu

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

All part of the plan no doubt!

They succeeded in stopping a Lidl or Aldi up the country though!

What is the general opinion of Douglas residents?

For or Against?

Absolutely crazy decision. cant wait to see artic delivery trucks go down that one way tiny street. Buses struggle at the best of times

beer enigma

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

All part of the plan no doubt!

They succeeded in stopping a Lidl or Aldi up the country though!

What is the general opinion of Douglas residents?

For or Against?

If it goes ahead (which I think it will), I'll be equi distant from Aldi Blackrock and the new Lidl Douglas. I think it will be well used. For tesco to appeal on the basis that it will 'under utilise' the space is a bit of a joke bearing in mind a lot of people aren't even aware the field exists.

boardsuser1

Dbu wrote: »

Absolutely crazy decision. cant wait to see artic delivery trucks go down that one way tiny street. Buses struggle at the best of times

Is it the lane down the side of the church where the graveyard and Eircom building are located?

boardsuser1

beer enigma wrote: »

If it goes ahead (which I think it will), I'll be equi distant from Aldi Blackrock and the new Lidl Douglas. I think it will be well used. For tesco to appeal on the basis that it will 'under utilise' the space is a bit of a joke bearing in mind a lot of people aren't even aware the field exists.

I think i might be in that category.

beer enigma

Not using Church Lane, new road going in from the Carrigaline Road with upgrades to the Fingerpost Roundabout.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/New-Lidl-will-be-built-in-heart-of-Douglas-e1718910-524c-4326-9774-08c1c126537c-ds

Dbu

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Is it the lane down the side of the church where the graveyard and Eircom building are located?

No, the one way street coming from the old carrigaline road. Its the one with the chicanes as you head to barrys pub

Dbu

beer enigma wrote: »

Not using Church Lane, new road going in from the Carrigaline Road with upgrades to the Fingerpost Roundabout.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/New-Lidl-will-be-built-in-heart-of-Douglas-e1718910-524c-4326-9774-08c1c126537c-ds

New Road? where?

boardsuser1

Dbu wrote: »

No, the one way street coming from the old carrigaline road. Its the one with the chicanes as you head to barrys pub

Oh for the love of fcuking christ :eek:

beer enigma

Dbu wrote: »

New Road? where?

Brand new road - part of the conditions

Primary vehicular and pedestrian access to the proposed new Licenced Discount Foodstore development will be provided via a new site entrance from the Carrigaline Road; Secondary pedestrian access to the proposed new Licenced Discount Foodstore development will be provided via a new dedicated pedestrian site entrance from the Churchyard Lane;

http://maps.corkcoco.ie/planningenquiryv3/MainFrames.aspx

Dbu

beer enigma wrote: »

Brand new road - part of the conditions

Primary vehicular and pedestrian access to the proposed new Licenced Discount Foodstore development will be provided via a new site entrance from the Carrigaline Road; Secondary pedestrian access to the proposed new Licenced Discount Foodstore development will be provided via a new dedicated pedestrian site entrance from the Churchyard Lane;

http://maps.corkcoco.ie/planningenquiryv3/MainFrames.aspx

Its not a new road, impossible to create one there. Graveyard on 1 side and offices on the other.
Its just a new entrance.

Dbu

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Oh for the love of fcuking christ :eek:

My thoughts exactly.

JohnK

Just heard today that planning was denied during the week.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Planners-overturn-proposed-Lidl-in-Douglas-fe09203f-ef5a-408e-8e65-780af661d1a3-ds

Zico !

how many brown envelopes did that cost?

kub

County Council incompetence or greed on show here, I am not sure which was worse but am glad this was over ruled.

TheChizler

Is there enough room there for a mixed use development?

beer enigma

“Traffic already in Douglas is terrible and to add another shopping centre in Barry’s Field would just add to that."

What about the ALDI they've granted permission for at the sacrifice of the cinema ?

j8wk2feszrnpao

beer enigma wrote: »

“Traffic already in Douglas is terrible and to add another shopping centre in Barry’s Field would just add to that."

What about the ALDI they've granted permission for at the sacrifice of the cinema ?

I don't think the cinema is a loss; last time I was there it was run down and it had terrible popcorn (barley edible).
In terms of traffic, not sure it'll make much difference. Shoppers were already there for Dunnes/Tesco, so Aldi just adds a choice.

snotboogie

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I don't think the cinema is a loss; last time I was there it was run down and it had terrible popcorn (barley edible).
In terms of traffic, not sure it'll make much difference. Shoppers were already there for Dunnes/Tesco, so Aldi just adds a choice.

I think there is a lot more potential in the cinema space than there is in Barry's field. Douglas badly needs weekday footfall, the place is dead during office hours, compare that to Ballincollig who have a far more vibrant main street and also have significant occupied office space. A mixed use office/apartment/hotel development would be far better for Douglas than an Aldi. The cinema and the green site next to it is the only stance I can think of that makes sense.

JohnK

From the sounds of it the Aldi might be in trouble as well

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Concern-expressed-on-Douglas-development-113db4c3-769a-4090-a286-c2f141d0ecf7-ds

namloc1980

JohnK wrote: »

From the sounds of it the Aldi might be in trouble as well

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Concern-expressed-on-Douglas-development-113db4c3-769a-4090-a286-c2f141d0ecf7-ds

It just got planning by the council but surely if it's appealed to ABP they'll decline it like they did Lidl. County council are clueless and have made a total clusterfcuk of Douglas. It's like a giant retail park with concrete bunkers surrounded by oceans of parking. That site should be much much more than just another supermarket.

JohnK

namloc1980 wrote: »

It just got planning by the council but surely if it's appealed to ABP they'll decline it like they did Lidl. County council are clueless and have made a total clusterfcuk of Douglas. It's like a giant retail park with concrete bunkers surrounded by oceans of parking. That site should be much much more than just another supermarket.

Yeah after they declined Lidl, it'd be very surprising if the didnt decline an Aldi which is pretty much just across the road. Especially if they start bringing traffic into the equation, with the queues that can build up outside McDonalds having an Aldi opening onto the same small bit of road would be madness.

whisky_galore

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I don't think the cinema is a loss; last time I was there it was run down and it had terrible popcorn (barley edible).
In terms of traffic, not sure it'll make much difference. Shoppers were already there for Dunnes/Tesco, so Aldi just adds a choice.

I would have liked the option of a cinema there, rather than yet another chain store, although my one and only visit was spoiled by asshats of local teens laughing and talking all through the film. The staff knew they were regulars and did nothing to chuck them out.

j8wk2feszrnpao

whisky_galore wrote: »

I would have liked the option of a cinema there, rather than yet another chain store, although my one and only visit was spoiled by asshats of local teens laughing and talking all through the film. The staff knew they were regulars and did nothing to chuck them out.

I'd like something other than another food store, but the cinema was either making a loss or the owner was putting no cash into the upkeep; it was in a poor state and seems to be getting worse.
Issue may be that there isn't another option or applicant other than Aldi/Lidl/supermarket.

As per snotboogie, it'd be great to have some type of office/apartment/hotel development, with (if I can dream a little) a pedestrian walkway from the new development to both shopping centers (i.e. you could walk from the Dunnes side to Tesco).
A pipe dream I know, but would love to see it done right.

beer enigma

JohnK wrote: »

Yeah after they declined Lidl, it'd be very surprising if the didnt decline an Aldi which is pretty much just across the road. Especially if they start bringing traffic into the equation, with the queues that can build up outside McDonalds having an Aldi opening onto the same small bit of road would be madness.

Aldi application is signed and sealed, final approval has been made already. there's a further application in to make changes for the off sales area, but the Aldi with 6 (I think) small retail units attached has gone through.

namloc1980

beer enigma wrote: »

Aldi application is signed and sealed, final approval has been made already. there's a further application in to make changes for the off sales area, but the Aldi with 6 (I think) small retail units attached has gone through.

So did the Lidl one but An Bord Pleanala refused it on appeal. This will also be likely appealed to ABP and if they are any way consistent it should also be refused.

snotboogie

munstermagic11 wrote: »

whisky_galore wrote: »

I would have liked the option of a cinema there, rather than yet another chain store, although my one and only visit was spoiled by asshats of local teens laughing and talking all through the film. The staff knew they were regulars and did nothing to chuck them out.

I'd like something other than another food store, but the cinema was either making a loss or the owner was putting no cash into the upkeep; it was in a poor state and seems to be getting worse.
Issue may be that there isn't another option or applicant other than Aldi/Lidl/supermarket.

As per snotboogie, it'd be great to have some type of office/apartment/hotel development, with (if I can dream a little) a pedestrian walkway from the new development to both shopping centers (i.e. you could walk from the Dunnes side to Tesco).
A pipe dream I know, but would love to see it done right.

I have heard rumors that the overhead link was planned pre recession, with another shopping centre rather than a mixed use development on the cinema site. I've never seen a reputable source report it so take that for what it's worth.

beer enigma

namloc1980 wrote: »

So did the Lidl one but An Bord Pleanala refused it on appeal. This will also be likely appealed to ABP and if they are any way consistent it should also be refused.

Very unlikely, the Aldi application was approved unconditionally in 2011 and totally unopposed, it was further extended in 2017, again unconditional approval with no appeals and the off licence extension was given approval with a few conditions on 21st March. Big difference here is that its a mixed development with 3 additional retail units (I thought it was 6 but was wrong).

Cork County council planning 184201

namloc1980

beer enigma wrote: »

Very unlikely, the Aldi application was approved unconditionally in 2011 and totally unopposed, it was further extended in 2017, again unconditional approval with no appeals and the off licence extension was given approval with a few conditions on 21st March. Big difference here is that its a mixed development with 3 additional retail units (I thought it was 6 but was wrong).

Cork County council planning 184201

Yeah see that now, thanks. Very poor development nonetheless. For such a central location a concrete bunker surrounded by a sea of car parking is just so unimaginative. County council have zero idea how to develop an urban landscape.

kub

namloc1980 wrote:

Yeah see that now, thanks. Very poor development nonetheless. For such a central location a concrete bunker surrounded by a sea of car parking is just so unimaginative. County council have zero idea how to develop an urban landscape.

Cork County Council are only experienced in looking after rural areas where grass grows in the middle of roads.
They have no idea of traffic management or urban areas.

Therefore Cork City Council, taking over the Douglas area cannot surely be a bad thing compared to what was there before them.

j8wk2feszrnpao

kub wrote: »

Cork County Council are only experienced in looking after rural areas where grass grows in the middle of roads.

What an ignorant viewpoint.

kub

Maximilian Early Zen wrote:

What an ignorant viewpoint.

It's true though.

Where are the worst traffic jams in Cork?

Ignorance it is not.
It's a bloody fact

AugustusMinimus

kub wrote: »

It's true though.

Where are the worst traffic jams in Cork?

Ignorance it is not.
It's a bloody fact

The County Council keeps giving the go ahead for huge new estates without building any new roads in the outskirts. The lack of road density causes huge traffic.

Compare this to the grid system put in place in Togher and Ballyphehane where there are no traffic issues.

j8wk2feszrnpao

kub wrote: »

It's a bloody fact

No it's not. And ignorant sums it up.