Audi A5 timing belt stretched & has seized engine

lilskip

Hi

I've an Audi A5 which failed to start on me last week. Just had a call from Audi dealer telling me cause is the timing chain has stretched & has seized the engine meaning I need a new chain & engine costing approx €12k. Any thoughts on this? I had the car serviced end of December & there was nothing to suggest this was a potential problem any time soon. Should the service have included inspection of the chain and, if so, should they / could they have allerted me. I understand that chains can only last so long & that they do need to be replaced but perhaps if I'd been prewarned it would not have also ruined my engine!

Thank you in advance

road_high

€12k? crazy money.
Take it elsewhere (specialist) first off and see how much it will be.
On the service history, others will be far better able to advise you. Was it always serviced by Audi and is it long out of warranty?

Atlantic Dawn

Would it have been up around the recommended change interval? Perhaps they might do some of the work as part of a goodwill gesture if it was always service by them.

mickdw

Assuming it's the petrol engine with the chain not belt as in the title.
There is no interval for these to be changed so no liability on a garage that carried out a normal service I would have thought.
I have an 08 1.8 tfsi myself since new and getting worried.
A used engine if you can find one would be a good option.
Even fitting the used engine with a new chain before fitting, it would work out at a small fraction of the 12k.
What year is the car?

punisher5112

What year and mileage covered that's really bad.

A chain should last lifetime of engine obviously certain circumstances are different.

mickdw

These are giving trouble so although a chain should be a lifetime job, these are failing.

mickdw

There is a used engine on eBay, engine code CABD which is the type in my one for 1650 sterling. No idea if it's a good price but gives an idea of cost of a used engine.

bazz26

punisher5112 wrote: »

What year and mileage covered that's really bad.

A chain should last lifetime of engine obviously certain circumstances are different.

Well it did last the lifetime of the engine in that the engine died at the same time as the chain. :pac:

lawred2

lilskip wrote: »

Hi

I've an Audi A5 which failed to start on me last week. Just had a call from Audi dealer telling me cause is the timing chain has stretched & has seized the engine meaning I need a new chain & engine costing approx €12k. Any thoughts on this? I had the car serviced end of December & there was nothing to suggest this was a potential problem any time soon. Should the service have included inspection of the chain and, if so, should they / could they have allerted me. I understand that chains can only last so long & that they do need to be replaced but perhaps if I'd been prewarned it would not have also ruined my engine!

Thank you in advance

12k for a new engine? Wtf?

punisher5112

bazz26 wrote: »

Well it did last the lifetime of the engine in that the engine died at the same time as the chain. :pac:

Knew you or some other smart are would be along.... Ha

Touché

lilskip

road_high wrote: »

€12k? crazy money.
Take it elsewhere (specialist) first off and see how much it will be.
On the service history, others will be far better able to advise you. Was it always serviced by Audi and is it long out of warranty?

Yeah it's madness. It's always been serviced by Audi but purchased from a car dealership so no warranty anymore. Bit of a shock re cost!

lilskip

punisher5112 wrote: »

Knew you or some other smart are would be along.... Ha

Touché

Ah but it was the chain that caused the death of the engine so it didn't necessarily last as long 😳

HeidiHeidi

Could you give the year and mileage? That sounds mad, tbh - I've a couple of pals with A5s (would only love one myself ), I'm sure they'd be interested to hear if this is a thing!

lilskip

mickdw wrote: »

Assuming it's the petrol engine with the chain not belt as in the title.
There is no interval for these to be changed so no liability on a garage that carried out a normal service I would have thought.
I have an 08 1.8 tfsi myself since new and getting worried.
A used engine if you can find one would be a good option.
Even fitting the used engine with a new chain before fitting, it would work out at a small fraction of the 12k.
What year is the car?

Sorry yes it's petrol & chain, not belt. It's 2011 & 190km on it so fair amount of distance covered with it. Doubting Audi would suggest a used engine ?!

lilskip

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Could you give the year and mileage? That sounds mad, tbh - I've a couple of pals with A5s (would only love one myself ), I'm sure they'd be interested to hear if this is a thing!

It's 2011 with 192km on it. Breaking my heart!

mickdw

What engine? 1.8 or 2.0?

I know of a 1.8 with 168k km that failed 2 weeks ago too.
I've got 120k miles so 200k km but oil changes on the nose with correct oil since new.

Stravos Murphy

You would hear a chain rattling for a while before it breaks unless a guide failed causing chain to break.

tossy

First thing to do is get out of Audi and bring it to a reputable Indy for a second opinion - where are you based ?

lilskip

mickdw wrote: »

What engine? 1.8 or 2.0?

I know of a 1.8 with 168k km that failed 2 weeks ago too.
I've got 120k miles so 200k km but oil changes on the nose with correct oil since new.

2.0 litre. Be careful !

lilskip

tossy wrote: »

First thing to do is get out of Audi and bring it to a reputable Indy for a second opinion - where are you based ?

Yeah was thinking that. Based in Dublin. Any recommendations please?

Toyotafanboi

lilskip wrote: »

Sorry yes it's petrol & chain, not belt. It's 2011 & 190km on it so fair amount of distance covered with it. Doubting Audi would suggest a used engine ?!

Have you asked your dealer to ask the manufacturer to check for a goodwill contribution on your behalf? At that age you stand a reasonable chance imo but the mileage may impact it a little.

Have you owned it from new? Has it always been serviced by the same dealer?

lilskip

Stravos Murphy wrote: »

You would hear a chain rattling for a while before it breaks unless a guide failed causing chain to break.

Audi said it was stretched as opposed to broken so no noise, just a shudder when driving for about 3km & then would not start after having it parked for 30 mins.

mfceiling

lilskip wrote: »

Yeah was thinking that. Based in Dublin. Any recommendations please?

Send George Dalton a pm here OP. Based just outside portlaoise. Very genuine guy and probably knows more about vw/audi than the "technicians" that reside in the main dealers.

clintondaly

mickdw wrote: »

What engine? 1.8 or 2.0?

I know of a 1.8 with 168k km that failed 2 weeks ago too.
I've got 120k miles so 200k km but oil changes on the nose with correct oil since new.

Very important point above there
I always serviced my own car(Honda Accord) got "someone i know" to do it once as I didn't have time,several months later,chain went while driving.

Because it was so unusual for an iVtec(petrol,i believe the Diesels go but for some other reason) chain to go,A Honda garage looked into it for free,turns out it was the wrong oil and cheap watery oil was used to save a few quid by the "someone i know" so the chain wasn't getting the right lubrication going around and was dry at the top of its cycle

gctest50

Stravos Murphy wrote: »

You would hear a chain rattling for a while before it breaks unless a guide failed causing chain to break.

Comedy tensioner made out of chocolate more likely no ?


this sort of sh!te engineering :

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102001

gctest50

location of that in some engines :

Stravos Murphy

What's the other chain, balance shafts is it?

gctest50

Must be ? with the kinda ~2:1 ratio on them

George Dalton

The chain setup on these is awful. The chain has a very poor grip on the sprockets. Once the chain stretches at all they are in danger of slipping.

They usually just bend valves when they slip, quoting for a new engine is way OTT. They generally cost around €2000 to sort out if you go down the road of just removing the head and replacing the valves then refitting with new chain and associated parts.

ArnieSilvia

George Dalton wrote: »

The chain setup on these is awful. The chain has a very poor grip on the sprockets. Once the chain stretches at all they are in danger of slipping.

They usually just bend valves when they slip, quoting for a new engine is way OTT. They generally cost around €2000 to sort out if you go down the road of just removing the head and replacing the valves then refitting with new chain and associated parts.

That's what I would do, head off, replace valves, new chain/tensioner/guides and off you go - provided conrods didn't bend which can be checked when the head is off (piston to top of the block distance the same).

Prior to that I'd take out the covers and check what happened and if there's full main dealer service history and if it was faulty component I'd request VAG to cover the repair.

I'm not in the VAG world at all but engine blocks can be interchangeable within the manufacturer i.e. I replaced an alfa 147 engine with alfa 166 one but it was a major headache as every ancillary part had to be swapped over (manifolds, thermostat, covers, pulleys, brackets, alternator bracket, driveshaft carrier, sump, literally everything and major pain as you can imagine, but if you can't source the exact engine code then what can you do. Alfa 166 was using oil level sensor in the sump so it saved the engine that consumes 0.5L of oil per 1000km and no 147 2.0 was available anywhere

road_high

George Dalton wrote: »

The chain setup on these is awful. The chain has a very poor grip on the sprockets. Once the chain stretches at all they are in danger of slipping.

They usually just bend valves when they slip, quoting for a new engine is way OTT. They generally cost around €2000 to sort out if you go down the road of just removing the head and replacing the valves then refitting with new chain and associated parts.

Some difference between €12K and circa €2k....:eek:
Hopefully the OP gets sorted now.

clintondaly

clintondaly wrote: »

Very important point above there
I always serviced my own car(Honda Accord) got "someone i know" to do it once as I didn't have time,several months later,chain went while driving.

Because it was so unusual for an iVtec(petrol,i believe the Diesels go but for some other reason) chain to go,A Honda garage looked into it for free,turns out it was the wrong oil and cheap watery oil was used to save a few quid by the "someone i know" so the chain wasn't getting the right lubrication going around and was dry at the top of its cycle

I'd find that incredibly difficult to believe

ArnieSilvia

Augeo wrote: »

I'd find that incredibly difficult to believe

I've seen that in high performance turbo engines (200bhp/L+), poor oil can have viscosity of water within few k km's due to oil particle shear, similar to petrol going down cylinder walls if engine was run too rich, that's why there are service intervals.

Side effect of poor oil and/or extended runs between oil changes is carbonized oil sludge build up in the sump and/or blocked strainer in the sump, resulting in turbo failures, blocked hydraulic lifters, wear on engine bearings etc.

You can check yourself - put a drop of new synthetic oil between your fingers and rub, then put old oil and see the difference

MTBD

Augeo wrote: »

I'd find that incredibly difficult to believe

That is quite a common issue with stretched timing chains. Happens on the GM based engines Alfa were using in the 159 and Brera. Regular oil changes will prevent it.

ArnieSilvia

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

.................

Side effect of poor oil and/or extended runs between oil changes is carbonized oil sludge build up in the sump and/or blocked strainer in the sump, resulting in turbo failures, blocked hydraulic lifters, wear on engine bearings etc.

You can check yourself - put a drop of new synthetic oil between your fingers and rub, then put old oil and see the difference

nothing to do with the comment I quoted and I don't need perfrom the bit in bold, cheers though

Waterson

Have you considered getting the engine repaired? Did the oil pump fail thus seizing the engine or has the timing jumped causing valve to piston damage. If it's the latter it would be much cheaper to replace valves, head gasket set and chain. I would be asking a few more questions of the dealer before committing to scrapping the engine, then post theit reply on here and we can advise you further. A stretched chain will not write an engine off.

martinr5232

Waterson wrote:

I would be asking a few more questions of the dealer before committing to scrapping the engine, then post theit reply on here and we can advise you further. A stretched chain will not write an engine off.

Id say its obvious the dealer has no interest in repairing this its too time consuming the time spent on rebuilding that engine you would change a lot of oil and filters.
Op i would think your best option is talk to George Dalton he is very well up on the latest vehicle repairs.
I will just add i have no connection to george but as a mechanic myself i can tell he knows his stuff.

Waterson

Yes I agree I knew a lot of garages who who sooner throw an engine into a car than get stuck into repairing one. Case in point a guy I know was told his 2006 fiesta was a write off because of a misfire, this garage offered him €500 towards a trade in. Long story short, 2 exhaust valves, a head set and oil change later and it's running like a dream. Off topic slightly, does any one know whether franchised dealers ever get involved in actual repair rather than replacement?

martinr5232

They will but its too time consuming take that fiesta is about ten hours labour so close on a thousand euro.
You would never get that out of most customers and in those ten hours you could do a lot of oil changes where your getting handy money.