Proposal for new Luas line linking Donegal and Sligo to Northern Ireland

Consonata

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/luas-from-north-to-donegal-proposed-773263.html

Certainly an.... interesting proposition.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Interesting is one word. Not what I'd use mind.

colm_mcm

Do they even know what a tram is for?

ClovenHoof

This is a very good idea and there are regional light rail systems running on electrified single track with passing loops all over the world. Switzerland is filled with them. The extension to Sligo part is mad, but nothing wrong with Derry to Letterkenny at all.


Won't happen though. A new motorway will be built instead.

NIMAN

What speed can a Luas go at?
Would it not be a slow journey?

Consonata

Unless light rail can go more than 70km/hr I don't see the point of this honestly. And the Sligo part is pure fairytale stuff unless its heavy rail. But I can see a case to be made for a Letterkenny-Derry rail line of some description.

newacc2015

Consonata wrote: »

But I can see a case to be made for a Letterkenny-Derry rail line of some description.

I can't see the point of it in my opinion. I imagine the train will only be filled with free travel passes, if anyone uses it. It is important to have decent public transport in Ireland, but can it really be justified between two cities of such small size? There are areas in Ireland that badly need money spent on rail, I see this line of any great importance.

IMO opening a train between the two cities would be more of a political message,rather than it makes sense.

Zebra3

It's not even between two cities!!

Patser

I remember Dustin the Turkey's Dart to Dingle campaign. This smacks of that.

magicbastarder

is there a disused railway line between derry and letterkenny, or would this be a completely new line?

the luas on an average day carries 5 times as many people as live in letterkenny. so if one quarter of the population of letterkenny used it on a daily basis, it'd be one tenth as busy as one of the luas lines; so maybe a peak of one tram every half hour.
that choice of one quarter of the population was completely arbitrary btw.

monument

NIMAN wrote: »

What speed can a Luas go at?
Would it not be a slow journey?

The Alstom train/tram can go up to 100km/h:

Citadis Dualis has all the flexibility and lightness of a Citadis tram. Once on the rail network, it becomes a regional train, transporting passengers at speeds of nearly 100km/h.

http://www.alstom.com/products-services/product-catalogue/rail-systems/trains/products/citadis-dualis/

I'm not saying that the idea linked to in the opening post is a good idea but just highlighting that a tram can have a different function than many think.

MGWR

Consonata wrote: »

Luas from North to Donegal proposed: Irish Examiner

Certainly an.... interesting proposition.

The return of the County Donegal Railways Joint Committee service and Lough Swilly Railway? Those were narrow-gauge heavy rail, though.

Ah, everything is "light rail" to government ministers. And have to love the "budget-style airline fares" idea too.

Peregrine

In a submission written by OPW Minister Sean Canney and signed by another six ministers of state

I'd love to know who the other geniuses are.

Jamie2k9

Peregrine wrote: »

I'd love to know who the other geniuses are.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/iarnr%C3%B3d-%C3%A9ireann-cuts-to-be-resisted-by-seven-ministers-1.2943884

_____

Only worthwhile talking point is transport police proposal.

aliveandkicking

What's the odds on this getting built before Metro North or DART Underground? I would actually put money on it myself.

Proposed by a minister in the OPW and signed by others in the Dáil. We couldn't/can't get that much political backing for Metro or DART. Says it all about politics in this country really.

Logue no2

Deedsie wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if we could get the public or at least the public interested in these things to agree on a list of priority projects which must be built before any other major infrastructure projects are even considered. As all they are is a distraction from the failure to complete vital, viable projects.

They only major projects that should be prioritised over the next 10 years are DART Underground/Expansion, Metro North, M20 & Cork North Ring, & investment in cycling/pedestrian infrastructure & services in urban areas for commuters.

Talk of any other major projects is just BS and should be derided as so by everyone until the above list of projects are completed.

The State's population is due to expand by 1.7 million over the next 30 years according to the CSO. If we don't plan ahead we will fall back on focusing the new population in and around the Greater Dublin Area, if we continue to follow the usual Irish patterns of groupthink.

We need to develop our other urban areas and like it or not, Letterkenny is becoming such an urban area and very much worth considering for future rail expansion from Derry in the longer term. I disagree with Joe McHugh's support of a tram to Letterkenny from Derry on the basis that if you are making a significant capital investment then heavy rail is the way to go.

Now before anyone starts to foam at the mouth over talk of expanding rail services, we do have to consider very seriously how we make provision for expanding the State's population over the next 30 years. Where will the extra population live? It would be madness to expect Dublin to expand while the cities and towns outside of Dublin continue to decline. Successful economies like Germany don't put all their development into one city; German development is very much spread across Germany.

magicbastarder

given we're still not sure what's going to happen with the border, this could have an interesting effect on the plans.

Logue no2

Deedsie wrote: »

In the next ten years if we could successfully plan, build and complete DART Underground/expansion, Metro North, M20 & Cork North Ring, and invest in cycling/pedestrian infrastructure and services for commuters, I think that would be an excellent start to provide for the future.

That would be an amazing feat to be honest.

Fully agree, it would be a great start, but not enough. We will pay the price big time for our caution and inability to think ahead if we don't progress, and start to progress now.

Ben D Bus

Logue no2 wrote: »

We need to develop our other urban areas and like it or not, Letterkenny is becoming such an urban area and very much worth considering for future rail expansion from Derry in the longer term

I'd be prioritising Cork, Limerick & Galway ahead of Letterkenny. And Waterford, Kilkenny, Athlone, Dundalk...

According to Wiki, Letterkenny comes in at number 22 on the list of towns by size in ROI. By the time a tram gets build, Derry probably won't even be in the EU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland_by_population

Nor would I be deliberately hindering Dublin's growth in the guise of promoting balanced regional development. We need one proper city that's capable of competing internationally for investment and talent. Because people and resources want to locate in real cities.

Peregrine

The Gardaí thing I can definitely get behind.

magicbastarder wrote: »

given we're still not sure what's going to happen with the border, this could have an interesting effect on the plans.

No, it couldn't. It's a pipe dream by a few junior ministers getting carried away.

magicbastarder

Ben D Bus wrote: »

According to Wiki, Letterkenny comes in at number 22 on the list of towns by size in ROI. By the time a tram gets build, Derry probably won't even be in the EU.

navan, at number 10 on that list, does not have passenger rail services.
navan/kells, and cavan and monaghan in general don't have passenger rail; what opportunities are there to provide them out this direction.

navan does have freight rail services, if memory serves.

beauf

Need to fix the congestion at Connolly before any of this.

Corca Baiscinn

Ben d Bus According to Wiki, Letterkenny comes in at number 22 on the list of towns by size in ROI. By the time a tram gets build, Derry probably won't even be in the EU.Initially I didn't even read the Luas to Sligo and Donegal story because it seemed so daft and hearing that it's a suggestion from Ministers of State leaves me gobsmacked. However, while I don't think that every hamlet should get a Luas etc just because them above in Dublin have one planning for infrastructure has to take more than population onto account. Letterkenny may be be only number 22 according to size but the only towns of any size in what was the old BMW area are Letterkenny, Sligo, Castlebar, Galway and Ennis. They are the largest towns for their respective counties/hinterlands and the location for various essential services so infrstructure cannot be allocated simply on the basis of population or the whole West of Ireland would be denuded of all services.

Corca Baiscinn

Deedsie wrote: »

They only major projects that should be prioritised over the next 10 years are DART Underground/Expansion, Metro North, M20 & Cork North Ring, & investment in cycling/pedestrian infrastructure & services in urban areas for commuters.

Agree as long as you mean no other new projects should be considered. Projects already underway are presumably subject to contracts/cpo's etc and can hardy be abandoned. On a pragmatic note Gort to Tuam will continue as long as Sean Canney is in Government and work has just started on the dangerous section of the N4 betwen Collooney and Castlebadwin. The idea of wooing Brexitting financial services to a congested and accommodation deficient Dublin though is ludicrous unless planning for DU/Metro North and orbital Public Transport plus cycling infrastructure are expedited

cgcsb

Is this a joke? It was in the Examiner??? Sounds like Waterford Whisperer stuff. Anyway a rail link(heavy rail) between Derry and Letterkenny may be of use in the future. However in the present we have the prospect of a hard border between Letterkenny and Derry and at the present rate of decline Donegal will have a population of 0 in a little over 100 years.

Back in 2017 Ireland is slowly urbanising, yet we remain one of Europe's most rural societies due to generations of poor planning policy and ever growing rural subsidies. Dublin, Cork and Galway are suffering chronic congestion, these cities are our future but we've just spent money making them liveable. Paddy will cop on, I hope.

lawred2

Consonata wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/luas-from-north-to-donegal-proposed-773263.html

Certainly an.... interesting proposition.

Stupid. Not remotely enough people to justify such a light rail project.

Losty Dublin

A problem that is unique to Letterkenny and Northwest Donegal is that it is almost in a vacuum within Ireland. A lot of this is down to it's poor public transport links and the fact that it is not suitably connected to anywhere significant in the county, let alone the country. It warrants just a little more attention over some of the other towns in the country for many reason, both on a suburban and at a national level.

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Ben d Bus According to Wiki, Letterkenny comes in at number 22 on the list of towns by size in ROI. By the time a tram gets build, Derry probably won't even be in the EU.Initially I didn't even read the Luas to Sligo and Donegal story because it seemed so daft and hearing that it's a suggestion from Ministers of State leaves me gobsmacked. However, while I don't think that every hamlet should get a Luas etc just because them above in Dublin have one planning for infrastructure has to take more than population onto account. Letterkenny may be be only number 22 according to size but the only towns of any size in what was the old BMW area are Letterkenny, Sligo, Castlebar, Galway and Ennis. They are the largest towns for their respective counties/hinterlands and the location for various essential services so infrstructure cannot be allocated simply on the basis of population or the whole West of Ireland would be denuded of all services.

Losty Dublin

Deedsie wrote: »

The Government contributions to the A5 scheme and the N13, N14, N15 & N56 upgrade projects are all targeted at making Donegal more connected to the rest of Ireland. I'm not saying that's enough but it is a start on which to build.

Incidentally, has anyone here ever visited Fintown railway heritage museum? Worth a look?

The south county is well linked. It's from Donegal town onwards where it becomes far less well connected.

Fintown? The hard bit is getting there but the views it offers.....

hytrogen

Sounds like another crayon made it out of the box..
I can see from an environmentalists and economists pov it's to burrow in under the presumed "hard border" been proposed since they can't justify developing the N13 into a motorway. Cunning plan nonetheless
As usual though the loom of Brexit allows our lot to sit on their hands to wade it out until the dust settles and see what happens..

jmlfc

Example.

http://www.tramalicante.es/planos.php?page=103

Simple as this, light rail is; Affordable, cost effective, reliable, faster. Former transport minister words Leo Varadkars

tabbey

aliveandkicking wrote: »

What's the odds on this getting built before Metro North or DART Underground? I would actually put money on it myself.

Proposed by a minister in the OPW

If I remember correctly, this is the clown who was constantly mentioned on the WRC thread before the 2016 election. Perhaps he knows something we don't.

n97 mini

Logue no2 wrote: »

Successful economies like Germany don't put all their development into one city; German development is very much spread across Germany.

Letterkenny has a population of 20,000. The 50th biggest city in Germany is 8 times bigger.

Logue no2

n97 mini wrote: »

Letterkenny has a population of 20,000. The 50th biggest city in Germany is 8 times bigger.

I'm talking about planning for the future, not immediately. Sadly we have a tendency to fight really hard to keep things exactly as they are in Ireland.

lawred2

Logue no2 wrote: »

I'm talking about planning for the future, not immediately. Sadly we have a tendency to fight really hard to keep things exactly as they are in Ireland.

Like it or not - Dublin right now needs heavy investment in rail projects and as the capital it's needs trump the needs of what would be very small town by anyone's standards.

What future are you planning for? The year 2317?

frolic

I tried imagining where the rails would be positioned as the roads itself are so small out here in Donegal. If I could get to Letterkenny from Bundoran or Sligo, I would be very pleased. Too many times I've been stuck out there, just because I wanted a night out, away from this area. Access to better jobs and more opportunity for college would exist for us who don't drive.

If this does go through, when would it begin and when would it be completed?

lawred2

frolic wrote: »

I tried imagining where the rails would be positioned as the roads itself are so small out here in Donegal. If I could get to Letterkenny from Bundoran or Sligo, I would be very pleased. Too many times I've been stuck out there, just because I wanted a night out, away from this area. Access to better jobs and more opportunity for college would exist for us who don't drive.

If this does go through, when would it begin and when would it be completed?

It's a pipe dream. Forget about it.

Peregrine

frolic wrote: »

I tried imagining where the rails would be positioned as the roads itself are so small out here in Donegal. If I could get to Letterkenny from Bundoran or Sligo, I would be very pleased. Too many times I've been stuck out there, just because I wanted a night out, away from this area. Access to better jobs and more opportunity for college would exist for us who don't drive.

If this does go through, when would it begin and when would it be completed?

It's something a couple of junior ministers drew with crayons while the grown-ups weren't there to tell them it was silly and completely unrealistic. Forget about it. Even if we struck oil off the coast of Donegal tomorrow, this wouldn't make sense.

Not that the grown-ups have come up with anything better in the past.

frolic

It is saddening to see people in this country wanting the focus to be fixated on heavily populated areas. Why not focus on the future and the current struggle of the entire country? Was it not Bus Eireann who recently announced the very likely possibility of cancelling buses in some rural areas and instead, will act as a school bus in those parts?

Someone on this forum mentioned free travel users in opposition of the proposed light rail. An observation I have made within the last year or so is the Irish's growing distain towards the concept of socialism. I can only hope the people of this country pull out of the clutches of capitalism before it's too late.

Nollog

Hi everyone.

I live in Letterkenny, a service like this would be great.
Bus eireann do a Derry bus that's consistently packed.
Along with the 32 that goes to Dublin.
The other bus they do is the 64 which also visits Donegal town before going to Dublin.

I take the 32 a good bit as my family is in Tipperary. It's an 8 hour journey every time.

I'd prefer a heavy rail system linking Donegal to Dublin, or if this proposed plan went to Belfast the rail there down to Dublin.

Just saying electorates up here would value better transport like this plan.

lawred2

frolic wrote: »

It is saddening to see people in this country wanting the focus to be fixated on heavily populated areas. Why not focus on the future and the current struggle of the entire country? Was it not Bus Eireann who recently announced the very likely possibility of cancelling buses in some rural areas and instead, will act as a school bus in those parts?

Someone on this forum mentioned free travel users in opposition of the proposed light rail. An observation I have made within the last year or so is the Irish's growing distain towards the concept of socialism. I can only hope the people of this country pull out of the clutches of capitalism before it's too late.

you seriously see justification for a light rail project in donegal?

seriously?

Atlantic Dawn

When they build their own Las Vegas in the hills of Donegal there will be plenty of demand for it.

magicbastarder

frolic wrote: »

It is saddening to see people in this country wanting the focus to be fixated on heavily populated areas. Why not focus on the future and the current struggle of the entire country? Was it not Bus Eireann who recently announced the very likely possibility of cancelling buses in some rural areas and instead, will act as a school bus in those parts?

what is the demand for travel between derry and letterkenny? what would be the budget required to deliver a light rail system? is the land already owned, or would this involve a CPO process?

n97 mini

Logue no2 wrote: »

I'm talking about planning for the future, not immediately. Sadly we have a tendency to fight really hard to keep things exactly as they are in Ireland.

I think there'll be another mass extinction before we need to start thinking about a Luas for Letterkenny.

n97 mini

frolic wrote: »

An observation I have made within the last year or so is the Irish's growing distain towards the concept of socialism.

The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money.

magicbastarder

can you imagine all the one-off houses they'd have to demolish in donegal to get the luas in? there'd be uproar!

Grandeeod

frolic wrote: »

It is saddening to see people in this country wanting the focus to be fixated on heavily populated areas. Why not focus on the future and the current struggle of the entire country? Was it not Bus Eireann who recently announced the very likely possibility of cancelling buses in some rural areas and instead, will act as a school bus in those parts?

Someone on this forum mentioned free travel users in opposition of the proposed light rail. An observation I have made within the last year or so is the Irish's growing distain towards the concept of socialism. I can only hope the people of this country pull out of the clutches of capitalism before it's too late.

Let me spell something out to you and a few others on this thread. Planning for the future is great. Deciding how we disperse jobs and sustainability is also a great idea. Developing the regions is cool too. However! We are currently in a situation where our capital city, DUBLIN, is completely devoid of any kind of modern and integrated public transport, fit for its needs. We are currently down sizing and delaying projects that the capital needs based on apparent reduced growth, while the reality tells a different story. Without Dublin functioning to the best of its ability, Donegal is doomed in the medium to long term. A TGV/Luas or anything else won't save it. Dublin needs fixing first, then Cork etc. etc. But we have no plan. All we have are bickering political interests combined with their constituents and supporters.

You stick with your Socialist BS and watch the country crumple.

tabbey

magicbastarder wrote: »

can you imagine all the one-off houses they'd have to demolish in donegal to get the luas in? there'd be uproar!

Like between Dundrum and Balally, they would just move the line around it.

Public interest or private property, the latter always wins in this state.

Jayop

The only public transport the Wests needs is....

a) Rail lines to Dublin. Pretty much golden with those already although Donegal really is left out a bit.
b) Great road infrastructure
c) Put buses on those roads.

Buses are far more practical out here and if investment is made in the roads then they'll also have quicker journey times than most of the railway lines.I honestly wish they'd shag off with all these stupid rail plans in the North West as people here in general don't really want them but do want good roads and all it's doing is building a "them and us" conflict with the dubs and the culchies about who's getting investment.

For me, all major investment in rail for the forseeable has to be in the City and then intercity but only connecting to Dublin.

Losty Dublin

tabbey wrote: »

Like between Dundrum and Balally, they would just move the line around it.

Public interest or private property, the latter always wins in this state.

The Luas line follows the old Harcourt Street railway line to Sandyford save for a slight deviations of about 1 metre at Dundrum and outside Stillorgan. The most they had to demolish was a tennis court and a tree hut

xper

frolic wrote: »

It is saddening to see people in this country wanting the focus to be fixated on heavily populated areas. Why not focus on the future and the current struggle of the entire country? Was it not Bus Eireann who recently announced the very likely possibility of cancelling buses in some rural areas and instead, will act as a school bus in those parts?

Someone on this forum mentioned free travel users in opposition of the proposed light rail. An observation I have made within the last year or so is the Irish's growing distain towards the concept of socialism. I can only hope the people of this country pull out of the clutches of capitalism before it's too late.

Its saddening to see people in this country wanting vastly expensive,patently economically unviable vanity/vote-buying infrastructure projects in small remote towns. Why not focus on reality and the strategically important projects that, due to the very fact that they are focused on the heavily populated areas, would improve the economy of the entire country through actual positive return on investment.

Seriosuly, I'd swear if you crunched the numbers, building DART Underground would actually turn out to be of more benefit to Letterkenny than this vote-buying grandiose nonsense.

Jayop

xper wrote: »

Its saddening to see people in this country wanting vastly expensive,patently economically unviable vanity/vote-buying infrastructure projects in small remote towns. Why not focus on reality and the strategically important projects that, due to the very fact that they are focused on the heavily populated areas, would improve the economy of the entire country through actual positive return on investment.

Seriosuly, I'd swear if you crunched the numbers, building DART Underground would actually turn out to be of more benefit to Letterkenny than this vote-buying grandiose nonsense.

Look, you can't only look at population as the only reason to invest in infrastructure. If that was the case then the entire west of the country would have nothing but roads with grass in the middle of them. A person in Letterkenny pays the same levels of tax as a person in Dublin and they deserve to have a basic level of services available to them.

That said, the idea of a luas between Letterkenny and Derry is absolutely farcical in the extreme. Build decent roads and put buses on them. Cancelling buses is a joke.