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Assault victim

  • 20-01-2017 1:16pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭soups05


    Hi all,I have popped in here now and then to read a thread but never needed to post till now. I am hoping to get some general information on what will happen next in regard to an assault. Here is what happened.....

    Saturday night, 14th jan, I heard a noise outside, looked up at my cctv and saw a guy leaving my front garden. Not being the hero type I waited till he was across the road and walking away before I took a look out. He had kicked the wing mirror off the car and just wandered off across the road. He seemed to be having an argument with another guy over some car that was damaged further down the street, the 1st guy seen me and came charging over.

    I asked them what was going on and went down in a barrage of punches and kicks. I got to my feet and ran for the house but when I got in my wife told me that my son and daughter had gone out to help me. I ran back out and they were fighting the two guys, I heard one say to the other "stab him xxxxxx" but I did not see a knife. I grabbed him and out him down hard. Then held him there till the guards arrived.

    we backed off and the guards put the both in the van, during this one of them punched a garda in the face.

    my son and I spent the night in hospital, he was released the next day but I was kept in and had to have surgery for a "bad fracture" to my chin and a break in the jaw up near my ear.

    The astounding thing is that in the A&E dept we met the same two guys, the guards appear to have just dropped them off at hospital an hour later.

    A helpful EMT contacted the station and asked what was going on and the guard said they had no evidence to hold them. We then had to suffer the added distress of hours of threats from these guys about what they were going to do to us when we got out.

    We just contacted the guard and arranged to make a statement, but what happens next? Do we need a solicitor? how likely is it they will get charged considering my cctv hard drive is broken so cannot record? Any advice of guidance would be most welcome.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Thats absolutely shocking. No wonder the streets are filled with scumbags.
    Id be looking for some investigation into the arresting officers as well as attempting to get the scumbags convicted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    Is this the whole story? No way they d be let out if they punched(as in made real contact) a guard in the face.

    How long after did you go to the hospital?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭soups05


    as soon as the garda van left my wife phoned an ambulance as I was bleeding everywhere. It took about ten mins to get here, say ten for assessment and sorting out who was going, then 20 mins to Drogheda hospital. We were there about 30 mins when we they walked in grinning like Cheshire cats.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    cursai wrote: »
    Is this the whole story? No way they d be let out if they punched(as in made real contact) a guard in the face.

    How long after did you go to the hospital?

    Even if zero contact was made, an attempt at punching a gardai should be enough to be locked for a while.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    soups05 wrote: »
    We just contacted the guard and arranged to make a statement, but what happens next?
    The Gardai are supposed to investigate and then either bring charges or refer matters to the DPP.
    soups05 wrote: »
    Do we need a solicitor?
    Seems somewhat unlikely at this stage, anyway. Although a solicitor may be some comfort to you in offering advice and/or following up with Gardai regarding a prosecution of the two guys, the involvement of solicitors in cases such as these is generally limited to criminal defence of those who have been charged with crimes or else in relation to civil actions/applications for assessment of damages with the Injuries Board.

    Generally, people like the two guys that you have described tend not to have jobs or assets so looking for compensation from such people is often a waste of time and money.
    soups05 wrote: »
    how likely is it they will get charged considering my cctv hard drive is broken so cannot record?
    The more that you follow it up, the more likely that action will be taken. You have made statement, which is a good start.
    soups05 wrote: »
    Any advice of guidance would be most welcome.
    Look into the criminal injuries compensation scheme wrt to out of pocket expenses and loss of earnings.
    http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/WP15000110


  • Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭Rushden


    Even if zero contact was made, an attempt at punching a gardai should be enough to be locked for a while.

    But it's not enough to be locked up for a while, even if they were charged with the assault of the guard or for a public order incident they're released after they're charged. They can't just be 'locked up for a while' because the guards or someone else wants them to be


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,071 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Talk to Joe
    Should be made very public, the Guards are a joke if what you say is true.
    ''No evidence'' people injured, cars damaged, no evidence. What a fool that guard is .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭soups05


    lol, talk to joe, i love it borne. unfortunately I cannot talk very much at the moment but that certainly gave me a smile thank you.

    Pat, you are correct, they are both unemployed, mid 20s. But as I am currently unemployed as well then I am not loosing wages etc. The cost of the medical bills for myself are covered by the medical card, my son works so he is probably in for a large bill soon. There were a lot of expenses due to travel to the hospital from my home when my wife and daughter visited to bring me clothes etc in the hospital. But no way to prove them as we did not think to keep receipts.

    We will struggle to meet the bills next week, mortgage, ins etc but I will work something out. I am gonna miss at least a week of college but I contacted them and they are very understanding.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    soups05 wrote: »
    There were a lot of expenses due to travel to the hospital from my home when my wife and daughter visited to bring me clothes etc in the hospital. But no way to prove them as we did not think to keep receipts.

    If you can get the time and date of the purchase, you may be able to get duplicate till receipts from where the items were bought. Even if you can't get the receipts, you could telephone the criminal injuries compensation tribunal to see if they would accept some other method of vouching the expenses.

    Note the following re applications:
    Application must be made to the tribunal as soon as possible but not later than three months after the incident. The tribunal has discretion under the scheme to extend this time limit in circumstances where the applicant can show that the reason for the delay in submitting the application justifies exceptional treatment of the application. There is no time limit for fatal applications.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭soups05


    I will look into that, thank you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    Talk to Joe
    Should be made very public, the Guards are a joke if what you say is true.
    ''No evidence'' people injured, cars damaged, no evidence. What a fool that guard is .

    The guards are a joke??? Why? Because they have to let people punch them or other people???? They did their job.
    Do you know how the justice system works?


  • Registered Users Posts: 50,852 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    It depends on the age of the culprits it seems. If they are under 18 years they cant be kept long in a station and only put in a cell as a last resort. If they were complaining of injury the garda seem to have no option but to get them to a doctor or hospital. Similar kind of thing happened to a friend but one the lads was prosecuted and the other two received a caution as they were under 18. The garda explained the position to my friend.

    The kid-glove treatment thing needs to change but that's for the politicians.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    Thats absolutely shocking. No wonder the streets are filled with scumbags.
    Id be looking for some investigation into the arresting officers as well as attempting to get the scumbags convicted.

    lol.
    He should've rolled with the punches???


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    You and your son need to make a written statement of complaint, in relation to the assault. There isn't any complaint/evidence until that is done.
    Also, when a guard him/herself is assaulted, they can't just charge the offender themselves. It's not allowed, the incident needs to be investigated by a sergeant or inspector I believe.
    I'm surprised they didn't arrest them under the public order act though, were they drunk?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭soups05


    Tayto lover these guys were mid 20s. Grown men not underage kids. I feel like the gardi have just about given up at this point, they drag these guys to court only for them to get a slap on the wrist, so why bother with court at all?

    Hopefully this time things will be different, but I have seen a local guy get a short sentence despite having 50 plus convictions at 21.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    bubblypop wrote: »
    You and your son need to make a written statement of complaint, in relation to the assault. There isn't any complaint/evidence until that is done.
    Also, when a guard him/herself is assaulted, they can't just charge the offender themselves. It's not allowed, the incident needs to be investigated by a sergeant or inspector I believe.
    I'm surprised they didn't arrest them under the public order act though, were they drunk?

    Be careful with that common sense stuff. People prefer rage comments and anti establishment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 50,852 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    soups05 wrote: »
    Tayto lover these guys were mid 20s. Grown men not underage kids. I feel like the gardi have just about given up at this point, they drag these guys to court only for them to get a slap on the wrist, so why bother with court at all?

    Hopefully this time things will be different, but I have seen a local guy get a short sentence despite having 50 plus convictions at 21.


    They should not have been allowed out if that's the case but if they hit a garda then i'd expect them to be prosecuted for all the assaults committed on that night.
    The law seems to be geared in favour of the thugs. Time for change.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭soups05


    Not drunk from what I could see bubbly pop, but possibly high, they were certainly "worked up" about something. A neighbour informed my daughter a few days later that five cars and a sliding glass porch door had been broken before they got to our house.

    Of course that may not have been them, no evidence. (note to self, learn to do a roll eyes smilie lol)


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    soups05 wrote: »
    Not drunk from what I could see bubbly pop, but possibly high, they were certainly "worked up" about something. A neighbour informed my daughter a few days later that five cars and a sliding glass porch door had been broken before they got to our house.

    Of course that may not have been them, no evidence. (note to self, learn to do a roll eyes smilie lol)

    Yea, if that was the case, the gardai probably had no legal right to hold them. No offense under the public order act, and no written complaint of assault.
    If any of your neighbours actually saw them committing any criminal damage, they need to make statements in writing also.

    When you do make a statement, be sure and put all the threats in the hospital in it also. They could receive further charges for that.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Doesn't sound like there was anything to justify detaining them. They'll be arrested again once the evidence is gathered and detained and interviewed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    bubblypop wrote: »
    You and your son need to make a written statement of complaint, in relation to the assault. There isn't any complaint/evidence until that is done.
    Also, when a guard him/herself is assaulted, they can't just charge the offender themselves. It's not allowed, the incident needs to be investigated by a sergeant or inspector I believe.
    I'm surprised they didn't arrest them under the public order act though, were they drunk?

    Why don't the police take statements as a matter of course.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Why don't the police take statements as a matter of course.

    It's usually done on a follow up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭dev100


    You would really want the French or Spanish police for scum bags here ..... beat the living crap out of them and then send them to hospital with proper pains ..... cops here are too bloody lazy with scum bags would rather go after people who protest against water meters or take cars off the road if the tax is out a few months or hid behind behind bus shelter s sniping for a driver a few kilometers over the speed limit .


    We shouldn't be so soft on people who commit gbh .....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    dev100 wrote: »
    You would really want the French or Spanish police for scum bags here ..... beat the living crap out of them and then send them to hospital with proper pains ..... cops here are too bloody lazy with scum bags would rather go after people who protest against water meters or take cars off the road if the tax is out a few months or hid behind behind bus shelter s sniping for a driver a few kilometers over the speed limit .


    We shouldn't be so soft on people who commit gbh .....

    Typical nonsense. Regular Gardaí rarely even use speed guns anymore. 1000 gardaí a year are injured. You don't get that from people afraid to tackle scumbags.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Just some random things that spring to mind.

    Get the CCTV fixed, just in case. The threats may be an issue in of themselves - try and find out of there were any witnesses. The guards will follow up on things in their own time, people have this notion that people are arrested for a crime and locked up on the spot, the crime needs to be investigated and until then the other party is innocent.

    In regards to not being the hero type, that is by far the best approach, however stay on your property if you do need to tackle someone you've the extra protection of the Criminal Law (Defence and Dwelling) Act and it's clearer who the aggressor was. I hope it all works out for you OP. By far the best bet is to get the CCTV fixed (hard drives are €20) and keep in doors. Hindsight being 20/20 of course.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭soups05


    Thanks Kant, good advice. I put the cctv on the long finger as I was busy with college, xmass etc. There always seemed to be something. As soon as I am feeling better I am going to replace the HD, better late than never.

    It just so happens that at no point did any of us leave the garden, we did not plan it that way it was simply that the attackers were not leaving. When the gardi did show up they were 8-10 feet inside the gates. (long driveway cos of the way the house is built.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Be sure to push the point home with the guards that you want it followed up. There was a slight niggle at the back of my mind you may have to contend with a cross complaint of sorts, but I think that would be unlikely to go anywhere if you're on your own property. If you get no joy with the attending guards, keep escalating it.

    Personally I'd have gone out with a cricket bat and provided no warning but then I probably would have ended up worse off than you did!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭soups05


    I hope the Mods don't mind but I have bumped my old thread seeking further information. Last Saturday, a day short of one year from the attack, my daughter was taking the dog out for a walk when she met one of these guys outside our house.
    High as a kite and babbling threats etc, he revealed that they are in court next month. We heard nothing about this. I contacted the garda victim unit and all they could say was if we were not summonsed we won't be needed. How long before the court can we be called? its 3 weeks away.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,713 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    soups05 wrote: »
    I hope the Mods don't mind but I have bumped my old thread seeking further information. Last Saturday, a day short of one year from the attack, my daughter was taking the dog out for a walk when she met one of these guys outside our house.
    High as a kite and babbling threats etc, he revealed that they are in court next month. We heard nothing about this. I contacted the garda victim unit and all they could say was if we were not summonsed we won't be needed. How long before the court can we be called? its 3 weeks away.
    Odds are that they have been charged in connection with the assault on the guard, and the prosecutors have decided that your evidence on that point is not needed, so you won't be called.


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