MacBook swimming in coffee

q85dw7osi4lebg

Hi Guys,

Did a quick search and there are similar threads but they don't answer what I'm looking for.

Partner spilled half a cup of coffee all over her MacBook keyboard and speakers this morning. I believe it was swimming in coffee.

She didn't turn it off straight away (I know I know).

Worked absolutely fine for a a few hours and then the sound stopped working, internal spellers and 3.5mm.

Restarted it and it made the usual startup sound but still no sound.

I'll now leave it off in the hot (Luke warm) press for the next few days upside down. The battery cannot be removed.

My question is, why would the startup sound still work but not sound from music / YouTube etc?

Also any advice on further steps would be much appreciated.

Thanks

JamboMac

Carolina Scrawny Figurine wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Did a quick search and there are similar threads but they don't answer what I'm looking for.

Partner spilled half a cup of coffee all over her MacBook keyboard and speakers this morning. I believe it was swimming in coffee.

She didn't turn it off straight away (I know I know).

Worked absolutely fine for a a few hours and then the sound stopped working, internal spellers and 3.5mm.

Restarted it and it made the usual startup sound but still no sound.

I'll now leave it off in the hot (Luke warm) press for the next few days upside down. The battery cannot be removed.

My question is, why would the startup sound still work but not sound from music / YouTube etc?

Also any advice on further steps would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Not a lot to be honest sounds like the sound cards gone so the best thing to do is dry it out as best you can. I assume you don't have apple care. Maybe a hair dryer it would help a bit faster. If you can open it up it might let you see what damage is done and how you can dry it out. I like the fact that electricity plus liquid didn't apply any alarm bells in her head, That status update to important.

Atlantic Dawn

I'd wrap it in a towel and put it in the hot press for 48 hours and then see if it turns on. Leaving it on after the spillage was a bad idea.

q85dw7osi4lebg

JamboMac wrote: »

Not a lot to be honest sounds like the sound cards gone so the best thing to do is dry it out as best you can. I assume you don't have apple care. Maybe a hair dryer it would help a bit faster. If you can open it up it might let you see what damage is done and how you can dry it out. I like the fact that electricity plus liquid didn't apply any alarm bells in her head, That status update to important.

She uses it for her POS system in work, so kind of vital. Thanks anyway.

themagiconion

I don't think it is a good idea to put that laptop in a hot place as the battery could explode. Check to see what temperature the battery is capable of handling, but I would think it is bad practice to leave it for 48 hours in a hot press or other, too dangerous.

Oafley Jones

Carolina Scrawny Figurine wrote: »

She uses it for her POS system in work, so kind of vital. Thanks anyway.

Have you backed it up. Honestly, If it's that amount spilled i'd be surprised that it's even turning on at the moment. They don't don't really come back from that sort of damage. I'd be getting any info off it while it was still working.

honeybear

I spilt a mug of tea on my MacBook Pro and nearly cried. It wouldn't work so I put it in its box and left it. Bought a replacement. Sister suggested a few months later that we sell damaged one for parts. Plugged it in and it started up! Won't work without being plugged in, but perfect otherwise!

q85dw7osi4lebg

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Have you backed it up. Honestly, If it's that amount spilled i'd be surprised that it's even turning on at the moment. They don't don't really come back from that sort of damage. I'd be getting any info off it while it was still working.

Yeah fully backed up so not too concerned about that. Fingers crossed we got lucky and it's just this sound concern. No idea why the startup "bong" would still play but other sound wouldn't.

q85dw7osi4lebg

After one hour upside down there is coffee seeping out of it...

themagiconion

Another concern if laptop is left to dry normally over time would be that the keyboard buttons would be very tight and still sticky, but if you could change the keyboard on that system it would remove that sticky pad problem. I wouldn't be surprised if the keyboard is super glued in as well though.

Just don't put it near any heat unless you can find a way to remove the Li-ion battery. Li-ion batteries can very easily explode, so I'd warn against putting it near any heat source.

EagererBeaver

themagiconion wrote: »

I don't think it is a good idea to put that laptop in a hot place as the battery could explode. Check to see what temperature the battery is capable of handling, but I would think it is bad practice to leave it for 48 hours in a hot press or other, too dangerous.

Daft. A hot press will be absolutely fine. It's hardly sauna level temperatures.

themagiconion

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Daft. A hot press will be absolutely fine. It's hardly sauna level temperatures.

I don't think you fully understand the danger of doing this. I have already explained how dangerous such a thing could be. There is a safety limit in regards to the temperature of the battery, if the temperature is higher than its recommended temp then the battery could explode. It's there for a reason to warn you not to allow the battery to go over this.

q85dw7osi4lebg

It's less than 30 degrees, MacBook fine up to 35+ I believe when operating.

JamboMac

Carolina Scrawny Figurine wrote: »

It's less than 30 degrees, MacBook fine up to 35+ I believe when operating.

Is their not a way to open up your mac book if warranty is gone and coffee is seeping out the only true way to know when its fully dry is by opening it. You can then have hair drier set on cold air which will help it dry better, a hot press is just a hit and hope, your best opening it you can't do more damage.

q85dw7osi4lebg

JamboMac wrote: »

Is their not a way to open up your mac book if warranty is gone and coffee is seeping out the only true way to know when its fully dry is by opening it. You can then have hair drier set on cold air which will help it dry better, a hot press is just a hit and hope, your best opening it you can't do more damage.

I'd like to but I don't have the tools for it, they are torx screws and there are no removable parts anyway. Going to put it in a small room tomorrow with a dehumidifier.

BreadnBuddha

themagiconion wrote: »

I don't think you fully understand the danger of doing this. I have already explained how dangerous such a thing could be. There is a safety limit in regards to the temperature of the battery, if the temperature is higher than its recommended temp then the battery could explode. It's there for a reason to warn you not to allow the battery to go over this.

FFS. Do you even know what a 'hot press' is? The total overreaction suggests you don't.

Apple's MBP recommended storage upper temperature is 45 deg C, for long term storage.

It will SAFELY handle ANY Irish 'Hot press' for a couple of days.

EagererBeaver

themagiconion wrote: »

I don't think you fully understand the danger of doing this. I have already explained how dangerous such a thing could be. There is a safety limit in regards to the temperature of the battery, if the temperature is higher than its recommended temp then the battery could explode. It's there for a reason to warn you not to allow the battery to go over this.

I don't think you fully understand the concept of what a hot press is or what temperatures they tend to be. Nobody is suggesting he puts the thing in an oven ffs.

themagiconion

I see that there is a lot of anger on this thread, I was simply explaining to you the safety when it comes to Li-ion batteries and that it would still be a safety concern to wrap the laptop in a towel and stick it in a hot press for a long period of time.

I go by the book when it comes to electrical safety, and I know quite well how unstable Li-ion batteries can be with heat.

Have a nice day.

BreadnBuddha

themagiconion wrote: »

I see that there is a lot of anger on this thread, I was simply explaining to you the safety when it comes to Li-ion batteries and that it would still be a safety concern to wrap the laptop in a towel and stick it in a hot press for a long period of time.

I go by the book when it comes to electrical safety, and I know quite well how unstable Li-ion batteries can be with heat.

Have a nice day.

Anger? No anger, just disbelief at your scaremongering reply and tut-tutting.

Would you consider it dangerous to put a Macbook Pro in a padded laptop case and take it to the south of France in July?

I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're writing about. Li-Po batteries are somewhat 'unsafe' when subjected to a hot environment. Li-Ion are, at this stage, stable and safe. Especially so when used and stored in accordance with manufacturers specifications.

So, let's stop the hand wringing and get back to reality.

OP, throw a couple of kgs of uncooked rice in a bin liner, place the laptop in a pillowcase/towel on top of the rice. Tied a knot in the bin liner and put it in the hot press (airing cupboard) or similar warm space. Leave for 24-48 hours, cross your fingers and hope the damage is limited to the soundcard.

me_irl

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

OP, throw a couple of kgs of uncooked rice in a bin liner, place the laptop in a pillowcase/towel on top of the rice. Tied a knot in the bin liner and put it in the hot press (airing cupboard) or similar warm space. Leave for 24-48 hours, cross your fingers and hope the damage is limited to the soundcard.

I thought the rice thing was a myth?

http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/14/9326035/can-rice-actually-save-your-wet-phone

(I know that article is regarding a phone)

So, does the trick work? In 2014, Gazelle.com ran a semi-formal test that indicated it didn’t. Of the seven household desiccants they tested, uncooked rice was the least absorbent, behind cat litter, couscous, oatmeal, and instant rice. Unless you’re willing to spend serious money, leaving your phone on a shelf to air dry, they suggested, may be your best option.

I'd say just give it time to dry out and cross your fingers that it works afterwards.

themagiconion

Did it not occur to some of you that liquid has entered the system and motherboard. Even at this stage there is possibility for a short circuit to the battery of which could cause a fire. If people want to risk it by wrapping it in a towel and putting it for a long period of time in a hot press then go ahead.

I just outlined the safety concerns as to actually doing this. It is not recommended, but by all means skip the safety measures and work away.

The manufacturers do not tell you that it is safe to do the above.

Anyway I hope your laptop comes back to life after the drying period.

EagererBeaver

There is ZERO safety risk of trying to dry out a laptop in a hot press. It may not work, but it will not spontaneously combust and to suggest otherwise is idiotic.

JamboMac

EagererBeaver wrote: »

There is ZERO safety risk of trying to dry out a laptop in a hot press. It may not work, but it will not spontaneously combust and to suggest otherwise is idiotic.

It's not exactly spontaneus, their's still a power source connected and liquid in the circuitry and where exactly are the connectors for the battery to the motherboard?

AndyBoBandy

Put it in a mildly warm room and put in a paper bag full of uncooked rice (the rice will act like silica gel and draw moisture)

GarIT

Don't put it in a hot press or a with rice they are both stupid ideas. If you're just trying to do it yourself the smallest space you can get it into with a dehumidifier is the best option.

When coffee dries it will leave a residue and this is enough to cause a short circuit when you try to turn it back on. If you want the highest chance or it working again get somebody professional to clean the motherboard with alcohol, or even better an alcohol bath before you try to turn it on, and the sooner this is done the better chance is has of survival.

While a hot press is better than just leaving it on a counter, it isn't much better, if you want to ensure some electronics are dry in the hot press, you need to wait at least two weeks but ideally a month before it will be dry. I regularly open phones that have been in the hot press for a few days then left in a drawer for a few months and they are still soaked inside.

Rice absorbs liquids that it is placed in but it doesn't absorb water from the air like silica gel.

AmboMan

I had the exact same thing happen to my MacBook. Would not connect to wifi etc after the spill. Left it in to mactivate and they were able to remove effected parts, they were all salvageable so the repairs were very reasonable, they said if I have and problems in relation to this they would deduct what I paid already from any further work required. Would highly recommend.

ZENER

+1 for this.

GarIT wrote: »

Don't put it in a hot press or a with rice they are both stupid ideas. If you're just trying to do it yourself the smallest space you can get it into with a dehumidifier is the best option.

When coffee dries it will leave a residue and this is enough to cause a short circuit when you try to turn it back on. If you want the highest chance or it working again get somebody professional to clean the motherboard with alcohol, or even better an alcohol bath before you try to turn it on, and the sooner this is done the better chance is has of survival.

While a hot press is better than just leaving it on a counter, it isn't much better, if you want to ensure some electronics are dry in the hot press, you need to wait at least two weeks but ideally a month before it will be dry. I regularly open phones that have been in the hot press for a few days then left in a drawer for a few months and they are still soaked inside.

Rice absorbs liquids that it is placed in but it doesn't absorb water from the air like silica gel.

The coffee will form a residue that will cause corrosion on the logic board. It needs to be dismantled and cleaned with IPA ASAP. The keyboard will have taken the brunt of it but you might be lucky if you act quickly. I managed to clean up a MacBook Air that had Coke spilled on it the previous day.

Drying the machine in a warm place will evaporate the water in the coffee but will leave a difficult to remove residue, especially if it gets under a component.

Ken

q85dw7osi4lebg

Thanks for all the input.

Keys are VERY sticky from the spill, more so to upper right hand side near power button.

BreadnBuddha

GarIT wrote: »

Don't put it in a hot press or a with rice they are both stupid ideas. If you're just trying to do it yourself the smallest space you can get it into with a dehumidifier is the best option.

When coffee dries it will leave a residue and this is enough to cause a short circuit when you try to turn it back on.

Stupid ideas? :eek:

Good intentions, that's all.

So, drying it out is a bad idea, but you give advice on how to dry it out anyway?

Fair enough though. It's stuffed now anyway, so it probably doesn't really matter what the OP does, bar taking it to a repair centre.

q85dw7osi4lebg

It's now been 54 hours or so since this happened.

It's been in the hot press about 50 hours.

Couldn't wait any longer to find out how bad things were, booted it up, keys feel like they are glued, however everything seems to be working fine and the sound is once again working.

Think we dodged a bombshell...

beauf

Dust will stick to the coffee and clog the vents.

I think you want to ignore that you still have a huge problem.

q85dw7osi4lebg

beauf wrote: »

Dust will stick to the coffee and clog the vents.

I think you want to ignore that you still have a huge problem.

Won't be ignoring anything as I'll need the keys cleaned anyway. It's an MacBook 12" if anyone is wondering so maybe less moving parts to break..

laoisfan

Add some sugar and it's be sweet!! BOOM!!

But on a serious note....get all that liquid out and then a few days in the hot press.

beauf

Its not just moving parts. Its the lack of airflow. Even where theres no fan, it blocks the space around things.

I noticed my own laptop heating up a many weeks after a spill. I swapped out the keyboard. But eventually I had to strip it and clean it all out everywhere. All the dust got stick and formed solid lumps around the laptop. Eventually it would have been damaged by the head build up.

BlinkingLights

You'll need to get someone to strip the machine and clean everything out.
If the fans start up stuck with coffee, you'll do a lot of damage.

If it's a modern machine, it will have SSD rather than mechanical HDD, so there would be no moving parts other than the keyboard and aspects of the track pad.

The ports may also be badly impacted by being full of coffee gunk.

Putting the machine into the hot press / airing cupboard will not cause the battery to explode or anything of the sort. The hot press is no more than about 35ºC and the machine is designed to work at pretty high temperatures.

If you can get it to a local repair agent, they might be able to dismantle it and clean it. This kind of thing is not covered by warranty so you've invalided that anyway, so an independent apple repair shop is fine.

BreadnBuddha

beauf wrote: »

Its not just moving parts. Its the lack of airflow. Even where theres no fan, it blocks the space around things.

I noticed my own laptop heating up a many weeks after a spill. I swapped out the keyboard. But eventually I had to strip it and clean it all out everywhere. All the dust got stick and formed solid lumps around the laptop. Eventually it would have been damaged by the head build up.

Macbook 12 is non-vented. It has a tiny logic board. Apart from that, it's speaker modules, keyboard and batteries in the lower case. It has 1 headphone/mic combo port and 1 USB-C port. If they work, he's sorted.

GarIT

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Stupid ideas? :eek:

Good intentions, that's all.

So, drying it out is a bad idea, but you give advice on how to dry it out anyway?

Fair enough though. It's stuffed now anyway, so it probably doesn't really matter what the OP does, bar taking it to a repair centre.

I can explain. Relative to getting it cleaned out professionally leaving it in the hot press is IMO a stupid idea.

In some cases depending on the persons finances and the device it's not worth paying to have it cleaned so I gave advice for those cases.

In OPs case if the coffee damages the motherboard you're looking at a €500 repair within at best 6 months, if you get it cleaned you could get it done for around €120 and save yourself the motherboard replacement.

Pappacharlie

If you have home insurance your laptop could be covered for accidental damage under the "all risks"section of your policy.
Did a similar job on a MacBookPro two years ago involving apple juice. Was fully covered. Got the replacement value. I had to get a report from a computer store that the old one was beyond repair. I was a few days after the event that the motherboard gave up the ghost.

Sad Professor

Only moving parts in the 12-inch is the keyboard, really. There isn’t even a mechanical trackpad. But those keyboards aren’t great. Lots of reports of people needing a replacement after a tiny bit of dirt gets lodged.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Still working perfectly...."touches wood".

beauf

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Macbook 12 is non-vented. It has a tiny logic board. Apart from that, it's speaker modules, keyboard and batteries in the lower case. It has 1 headphone/mic combo port and 1 USB-C port. If they work, he's sorted.

I would assume l fanless machines have some clearance to allow cooling. if thats filled with thick coffee, I would assume its going to have an effect. Seems to be quite a few reports of fanless macs going dead a few weeks after a spillage. Maybe thats not to do with cooling I don't know.

Creamy Goodness

Carolina Scrawny Figurine wrote: »

My question is, why would the startup sound still work but not sound from music / YouTube etc?

As an answer to the above. The startup noise comes from a different speaker than the normal speakers so it's possible this wasn't damage but the others were. Majority of PC/Laptops/Macs are like this for this very reason, they're used for warning beeps if the normal speakers fail/don't work/coffee spilt in them.

BreadnBuddha

beauf wrote: »

I would assume l fanless machines have some clearance to allow cooling. if thats filled with thick coffee, I would assume its going to have an effect. Seems to be quite a few reports of fanless macs going dead a few weeks after a spillage. Maybe thats not to do with cooling I don't know.

You should stop making assumptions and actually look up a Macbook 12 and tell me where exactly you think they've left 'clearance' for cooling. :rolleyes:

That's not how this kind of thing works.

Notorious

JamboMac wrote: »

You can then have hair drier set on cold air which will help it dry better, a hot press is just a hit and hope, your best opening it you can't do more damage.

Never, never, never use a hair dryer on water damaged electronics. Never. You risk causing irreparable damage. A hot press will do the job.

A good test to check if liquid has been removed is to wrap the device in kitchen paper. Flip it over after three hours and check if there is any signs of water on the paper. Leave it another 3 hours to check the underside.

BlinkingLights

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

You should stop making assumptions and actually look up a Macbook 12 and tell me where exactly you think they've left 'clearance' for cooling. :rolleyes:

That's not how this kind of thing works.

Apple laptops make a lot of use of passive cooling by heat sinking into the metal case. They will spin up two very flat fans to draw air along the case to increase than effect. It enters through various parts of the case and out through the vent at the hinge.

It also blows air over the processor and GPU in particular.

Also, bear in mind that because Apple have control over both the hardware and software they know the cooling characteristics in detail and will let the heat ramp up a lot more than your typical Windows PC or indeed a Mac running windows - you'll hear the fans fly up a lot more if you're running windows on the same hardware because Windows needs to be more conservative to encompass a wider range of possible hardware configurations.

The biggest issue you'll risk with coffee is the fans may get stuck due to coating them with sticky coffee - milk etc will do that.

You need to get the machine opened and cleaned down instead to ensure there's nothing gummed up.

The machine won't typically damage itself by overheating but the firmware will shut it down if it can't cool effectively and overheats. The system should also pick up any fan failures too.

They're not that difficult for a repair centre to open and clean but I wouldn't suggest doing it yourself - they are VERY tightly packed.

beauf

He means, that the new 12" is fanless and has no vents. Also have a tiny motherboard. Previous ones has hidden vents under the screen. Mainly cools through a heat transfer to the chassis. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Retina+MacBook+2015+Teardown/39841 I still reckon if its full of coffee which dries like tar, it will negatively impact the cooling even on this model. While the Core M isn't that powerful its still needs a heat-sink, (if small) to move heat away from itself and to the chassis. Anything that interferes with that and keep the heat contain is not ideal.

That said it wasn't turned off for hours after the spill. So if that didn't kill it, its probably fine.

BlinkingLights

beauf wrote: »

He means, that the new 12" is fanless and has no vents. Also have a tiny motherboard. Previous ones has hidden vents under the screen. Mainly cools through a heat transfer to the chassis. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Retina+MacBook+2015+Teardown/39841 I still reckon if its full of coffee which dries like tar, it will negatively impact the cooling even on this model. While the Core M isn't that powerful its still needs a heat-sink, (if small) to move heat away from itself and to the chassis. Anything that interferes with that and keep the heat contain is not ideal.

That said it wasn't turned off for hours after the spill. So if that didn't kill it, its probably fine.

Most of the heat transfer occurs by direct contact with the chip via a thermal paste blob. It's not air-to-chassis. It's direct conduction / very close to surface conduction mostly.

Also the machine do genuinely run hotter than a typical PC because Apple's aware of the component specs of every detail. However, MacOS and the firmware will shut the machine down / force it into sleep if the temperature passes an upper limit.

lawred2

Carolina Scrawny Figurine wrote: »

I'd like to but I don't have the tools for it, they are torx screws and there are no removable parts anyway. Going to put it in a small room tomorrow with a dehumidifier.

take it to a mac specialist

BlinkingLights

lawred2 wrote: »

take it to a mac specialist

I really, really wouldn't recommend taking those very tight machines apart without experience. They're very fiddly to get back together and there's a nack to a lot of it.

In a spill, you've invalidated your warranty anyway so you can go to any apple repair place. Get reviews locally.

lawred2

BlinkingLights wrote: »

I really, really wouldn't recommend taking those very tight machines apart without experience. They're very fiddly to get back together and there's a nack to a lot of it.

In a spill, you've invalidated your warranty anyway so you can go to any apple repair place. Get reviews locally.

I didn't recommend taking anything apart - I said take it to a mac specialist

beauf

BlinkingLights wrote: »

Most of the heat transfer occurs by direct contact with the chip via a thermal paste blob. It's not air-to-chassis. It's direct conduction / very close to surface conduction mostly.

Also the machine do genuinely run hotter than a typical PC because Apple's aware of the component specs of every detail. However, MacOS and the firmware will shut the machine down / force it into sleep if the temperature passes an upper limit.

I know.

I think its ,mainly to the bottom of the chassis. You'd think the surface it rests on will have some impact.

The Macs seems to be more temperature sensitive perhaps because they run the tolerances so tight.

There was some talk of the Samsung note issue was partly due to to not enough space around the battery for expansion and heat.