Building an ocean going houseboat! - The Quidnon

micka

Hi all,

First post on this forum. Hope you're all keeping well

Am planning to commence the build of an ocean going houseboat later this year. It will be based on plans due to become available from the designers of the 'Quidnon' (latin for 'why-not'). See more here - quidnon.blogspot.ie

Current specs of the boat are -

HULL TYPE: SCOW
LOA: 11,28 m• LOD: 10,97 m • LWL: 10,67 m • BEAM: 4,87m
STEERING: TWIN KICK-UP BOARDS & RUDDERS
RIG TYPE: CHINESE JUNK • SAIL AREA: 92,9 m2
DRAFT: BOARDS DOWN 2,13 m , BOARDS UP 0.46 m
DISPLACEMENT: 12,2 TONS• GROSS TONNAGE: 25,4 TONS
BALLAST: 7,1 TONS; WATER 5,08 TONS, STEEL SCRAP 3,048 TONS
CONSTRUCTION: FIBERGLASS OVER MARINE PLYWOOD
BUILD TYPE: MANUFACTURED KIT, RAPID DIY ASSEMBLY
ENGINE: 29,3 Kw OUTBOARD IN INBOARD WELL
CRUISING SPEED: 6 KNOTS (3,1 m/s) • MAX SPEED: 7.5 KNOTS (3,85m/s)
WATER: 5220 litres • GASOLINE: 190 liters
PROPANE: 2 9,1-kg CYLINDERS IN VENTED LOCKER
ACCOMMODATIONS: SLEEPS 10 ADULTS, 5 WITH PRIVACY
LAYOUT: 2 AFT CABINS, VESTIBULE, GALLEY, HEAD,
SALON, 2 PILOT BERTHS, “U-BERTH” IN BOW

Build Method

All plywood for the hull, bulkheads, deck surfacing, furniture etc will be milled using a CNC milling machine. All glazing for portholes, deadlights, hatches etc will be cut using a laser cutter.

Computer generated image of Quidnon


_____

There's a good few postings / comments on the Quidnon blog mentioned above. Please feel free to comment on any shortcomings etc, and i'll see if they've been answered before on that blog..

I hope to use this thread for questions relating to where to source materials at discount etc and also if folk are interested in helping out on the build or indeed mad enough like me to construct their own

I'll be building it in the midlands, Birr, Banagher, Cloughjordan (some town like that).

So first q - are there any other forums / blogs that i should announce this on?

Cheers,

Michael.

Conchir

I don't have time at the moment to really read this properly, so for now I'll just say this. It looks really interesting, and these threads are always a lot of fun to follow. Best of luck OP! You'll get amazing help I'm sure from this forum, thread followed

pedroeibar1

It's not yet April 1st. Please tell us this is a wind-up. Is that blogger for real? The design is partly predicated on a wish to bring a pony along, so the solution is to surface the entire deck with aluminum diamond plate. :D

Have you ever sailed a yacht? Or been on one? I do not like the junk rig (anyone remember 'Vamos' in DL?) because other than dead downwind they are useless due to sail twist. The rest of it is IMO plain ugly and will not go anywhere fast. A claimed 7.5 knots is not even correct for its theoretical hull speed. The bow will thump into any short choppy sea and stop it dead, in addition to creating a thundering 'slapping' noise and probably vibrating it to bits. The above-water profile is far too high and it would sail like a pig. The internal lay-out shown on the plans is rubbish, high on accommodation but low on creature comforts (one heads, but a sauna? where will the power come from?) and disproportionally poor stowage space. Were I to spend thousands of hours and cash I would want to create something beautiful and more serviceable..not to mention seaworthy.

micka

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

this is a wind-up. Is that blogger for real?

The blogger, Dmitry Orlov - has lived on boats for over ten years. The limitations he found on earlier boats, (scow and traditional keel) has made him keen to remove same for thist project - the Quidnon. Most years, he overwinters in Florida and then sails back up to Boston for the summer.

..predicated on a wish to bring a pony along, so the solution is to surface the entire deck with aluminum diamond plate.

Yes, the room for a pony is a running joke between him and another captain. Diamond plate is optional -

"It is covered with aluminum diamond plate, for good traction, excellent wear resistance and to keep the boat cool by reflecting most of the sunlight."

Have you ever sailed a yacht? Or been on one?

Yes, dinghy and laser sailing and also a 'competent crew' course with Glenans living on board for a week or so. Plan to do more this summer on Lough Derg and Dun Laoghaire.

I do not like the junk rig .. because other than dead downwind they are useless due to sail twist.

On the selection of a junk rig -

"..going with a Chinese Junk rig. It has numerous other advantages beyond relatively low cost.

For starters, it gives you the ability to raise, trim, lower and reduce sail all without having to ever set foot on deck. It doesn't require a winch, just lots of blocks and plenty of line.

Junk sails are quite easy to make because they can be cut perfectly flat and still work. However, there are some complaints about them. They don't pull to windward when there is hardly any wind. Also, they don't point quite as high as a sloop, and the tacking can be quite slow. But they are much better than any sloop off the wind.

But it's not too hard to camber the panels, as Arne Kvernland recommends doing. Cambering the panels as shown gives them “belly” or “bagginess” so that it is the panel's shape rather than the flex of the battens that forms it into an airfoil that can take advantage of the Bernoulli effect to generate lift and move the boat to windward. A cambered Junk sail can be just as good to windward as a sloop rig."

The rest of it is IMO plain ugly and will not go anywhere fast. A claimed 7.5 knots is not even correct for its theoretical hull speed. The bow will thump into any short choppy sea and stop it dead, in addition to creating a thundering 'slapping' noise and probably vibrating it to bits. The above-water profile is far too high and it would sail like a pig.

Dmitry's words from an earlier blog post (not mine ) -

"At this point a typical snooty yachty person will snort and declare that this boat must sail like a pig. Not so; Hogfish (his earlier scow/flat bottomed boat) does a perfectly respectable 7.5 knots off the wind, and 5 knots to windward, and points as high as most sloops."

Two more entries i found relating to the junk rig sheeting arrangement -

"I might do a few more towing and stability tests, to verify hull speed and initial stability angle, but we already have these numbers from the hydrostatic and hydrodynamic analysis. I don’t expect any surprises, and so there probably won’t be anything to report."

"One of the problems with Junk rigs is that they tend to twist: the upper panels end up sheeted in less tight than the lower ones. Since the direction of the wind is generally the same at every height (while its strength varies) what this means is that only part of the sail is able to perform at optimum efficiency; either the lower panels are pinching or the upper panels are luffing, or both.

One classical way to deal with this problem is by using a euphroe. It is a piece of wood with holes in it to send sheetlets through, and it allows one to distribute the sheet tension across the battens in such a way that the upper battens are sheeted in with more force than the lower battens, counteracting the twist. Sailboat designer Tom Colvin, who circumnavigated with a Junk rig, favored the euphroe. Other people are less in favor of it, because it tends to flail about and hit things when tacking or jybing. I don’t particularly like the euphroe and would prefer something simpler to set up.

Previously, I proposed a design for an automatic traveler system that would move sheet blocks back and forth to counteract the twist. I don’t know whether it would work, because I haven’t tested it, mainly because I don’t like it. It’s too complicated. But I didn’t know what else to do… until yesterday.

Yesterday I looked at some traditional Chinese Junk set-ups, which use twin sheets. There are two separate sheeting set-ups for port and starboard tacks. Having two sets of sheets solves a couple of problems. One is that there doesn’t have to be a gap between the leach of one sail and the luff of the next for the sheets to move through, and a sail can overhang the transom without requiring a boomkin for sheeting, because each sheet hangs to the side of the sail. The other is that with the Junk rig the force on the sail acts differently depending on the tack: on one tack, it pushes the battens against the mast; on the other, it pulls them away from the mast. Because of this, the optimal sheeting angles are different for each tack, but with a single sheet there is just one attachment point on deck.

Now, that alone isn’t too interesting, but it becomes very interesting when combined with QUIDNON’s super-wide deck arches. You see, the twist happens because the forces on the different sail panels are different but the sheetlets all go to blocks that are all the same spot, at the same angle to the sail. But the deck arches allow the sheet blocks to be spaced apart so as to counteract the twist.

And so that’s the solution I finally arrived at. The sails are set up with blocks that hang from the boom and from each of the four battens. Since the higher battens need more sheeting force, because of higher wind speeds up top, the attachment points of the blocks move progressively further aft the higher up on the sail they are, with the topmost one almost all the way to the leach of the sail. The deck arches are set up with a padeye right in the center, and then two sets of blocks on two separate tracks to port and to starboard, for each of the sheets. The sheetlets start up at the padeye, go up to the block on the boom, then down to the innermost block on the track, then up to the lowest batten, then down to the next block on the track and so on.

The track allows the blocks to move, allowing the setup to be fine-tuned depending on conditions. For example, on the relatively flat and windless Chesapeake, where the most you might get is a few feet of chop, the lower part of the sail gets not much less wind than the upper part, and tends to twist less. On the other hand, out on the Pacific the swell can run at 20 feet or so, blanketing the lower part of the sail a considerable portion of the time, twisting the sail much more. To make an adjustment, one reaches up to the deck arch, unscrews the knob that holds the block in place, and slides the block over a bit. A bit of trial and error will give you a sail that can be sheeted in perfectly flat in the prevailing conditions.

I like this solution because of its simplicity. The trade-off is that the running rigging has gained two more lines, because now there are four sheets to manage instead of two. But then that’s not a big increase in percentage terms. Before splitting up the sheets into port and starboard there was the one sheet, two halyards (peak and throat), two topping lifts (fore and aft) and one downhaul. That’s 7 lines per sail. And now there are 8.

The twin sheets have a few additional advantages. They make it possible to backwind the sails, to slow down or even to sail backwards. This is sometimes useful; for example, for sailing into a slip at a marina. (Yes, Junk rigs make it possible to do things under sail that sloop and ketch sailors can only dream of.) It also makes it possible to heave-to in the traditional manner, by sheeting in the main, backwinding the foresail and lashing the tiller to leeward, rather than in the Junk manner—by simply letting go the sheets and playing with the rudder until the sails trail off to leeward at some comfortable angle. When becalmed in a swell they make it possible to tighten both port and starboard sheets so that the sails do not swing back and forth on the swell, snubbing at the sheets. Lastly, if a sheet parts (as they all do eventually) then it is still possible to sail—perfectly well on one tack, less well on the other.

There is just one question left to answer: Does this actually work? (I know, details, details...) Well, I rigged it up on the 1:12 model, and, lo and behold, it does! Here's the money shot: the mainsail sheeted in sets perfectly flat. This is about as good as it gets. This boat is going to sail to windward and short-tack like a dream!"

The internal lay-out shown on the plans is rubbish, high on accommodation but low on creature comforts (one heads, but a sauna?..

How many heads do you need? A blog post on creature comforts found here -

http://quidnon.blogspot.ie/2015/01/creature-comforts.html

Internal boat layout -

Where will the power come from?

Some details of the electrical system as follows -

"Then there is the question of where to store all this power. My solution, which I know works well from experience, is to use Trojan T-105 6V 125Ah batteries. I plan to put 8 of them, in 2 banks, in a large, plastic-lined, vented battery box down in the bilge, under the cabin sole.

The two requirements for the battery enclosure are that it must never leak acid into the bilge, and that any hydrogen gas generated while charging is vented overboard (hydrogen is explosive under a wide range of concentrations and its flames are hot and invisible).

With all the sundry pieces added in (charger, charge controller, inverter, shore cable and plug, circuit breakers, wiring and outlets) the budget for the entire electrical system comes in just under $6,000 or 12% of the total budget, which is quite reasonable for a comfortable off/on-grid set-up."

.. and disproportionally poor stowage space.

On the massive amount of storage space -

"..various kinds of storage: shelves, lockers, hanging lockers, cabinets and so on. The space under the pilot berths is occupied by the water tanks, but everywhere else the space under the settees and the berths is also used for storage. This adds up to about 500 cubic feet of storage space, most of it close to the waterline."

Were I to spend thousands of hours and cash I would want to create something beautiful and more serviceable..not to mention seaworthy.

Tis' seaworthy and reasonably fast -

"The model has been hydrostatically tested using Orca3D software. (We are very grateful that Orca3D has agreed to sponsor our project, and has donated two seats of their excellent software for our use.) Hydrodynamic tests will have to wait until we build a 1:12 scale model, and conduct towing tests and other types of in-the-water testing.

The good news is: there are no surprises at all. The hydrostatic tests have confirmed the initial calculations: QUIDNON, ballasted as initially designed, is going to be seaworthy and reasonably fast."

_____

The boat i want to build does not need to look beautiful or go anywhere fast and i'm not interested in 'racing' whatsoever.

But the idea of building a boat and sailing down to the Azores - while living at the marina for the whole summer really appeals to me .

Cheers,
Michael.

neris

Holy **** that's 1 fugly boat, it makes the macgregor 26 look sexy. Nominee for 4KSB of the year. I've heard of some bat **** crazy stuff going on to boats but a saunas a new 1. I don't even think ron holland or wally yachts have tried anything that stupid on a boat. Is the designer russian because when it comes to boats russian yacht designers are dreamers without any real world experience. . The keels too far forward, the hull shape is only suitable for down wind sailing and with that rig she ain't going into any sort of head wind. There's far more practical and prettier kit builds out there you could buy the plans for and build.

Conchir

neris wrote: »

Holy **** that's 1 fugly boat, it makes the macgregor 26 look sexy. Nominee for 4KSB of the year. I've heard of some bat **** crazy stuff going on to boats but a saunas a new 1. I don't even think ron holland or wally yachts have tried anything that stupid on a boat. Is the designer russian because when it comes to boats russian yacht designers are dreamers without any real world experience. . The keels too far forward, the hull shape is only suitable for down wind sailing and with that rig she ain't going into any sort of head wind. There's far more practical and prettier kit builds out there you could buy the plans for and build.

Just on the keel. I'm by no means any kind of expert, and it does look fairly far forward. However, just by eye, looking at the plan picture in the OP, would it not be roughly where you'd expect it in terms of centre of effort and centre of lateral resistance?

A sauna is a very strange thing to include OP, especially if you'd plan on basing yourself in warmer climes than Ireland?

neris

centre is normally around the middle of the boat, maybe slightly forward or aft of centre but that looks very far forward. maybe the set up of a keel on a junk rig is different but it just looks wrong. also as pedro says the topsides are very high and also all those portholes would weaken the hull structure. serious amount of weight in it aswell

just for info this what a scow looks likes

emo72

I have no idea about boats, but I'm following this thread. Sailing to the Azores? I'm with the OP, best of luck.

fergal.b

Wow Looking forward to this








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Tabnabs

neris wrote: »

just for info this what a scow looks likes

no, just no. Any sloopy seas and she'll grind to a halt.

OP, you're reinventing the wheel here. If this was such a wonderful design more people would be sailing it. There are lots of cheaper and more suitable solutions out there. This looks like a heart breaker (and won't sell when you realise this).

Conchir

neris wrote: »

centre is normally around the middle of the boat, maybe slightly forward or aft of centre but that looks very far forward. maybe the set up of a keel on a junk rig is different but it just looks wrong. also as pedro says the topsides are very high and also all those portholes would weaken the hull structure. serious amount of weight in it aswell

It does look very far forward I agree, but the two centres (of effort and lateral resistance) would still look to be in balance, right? Then it would be a case of looking at the overall centre of effort of the boat, maybe then that is too far forward? Though as the forward mast is practically on the bow, maybe it all evens out.

Just to add, I'm as much checking my own knowledge here (and thinking out loud) as I am debating the case for this boat, I haven't considered stuff like this in a while. It could all be very wrong.

fergal.b

Op have you looked at the Glen-l boats https://www.boatdesigns.com/Sailboats/departments/12/ I have built two of their boats and I have to say the help and support on the forum is top notch, might be worth a look before you make up your mind.






.

Tabnabs

€50k and a free flight if you buy it, I'd be looking at Portugal, the boatyard of broken dreams. People get these ideas about heading off blue water cruising and one trip across Biscay calls a halt to all that. You can find some wonderful cruising boats, fully kitted out, with motivated sellers.

JamesM

Don’t be so pessimistic – Give the guy a chance – Encourage him to fulfil his dream.
Actually no. At my age I have seen too many projects go wrong and never get to the water.
Richard Woods http://www.sailingcatamarans.com said to me many years ago, If you can’t build a boat in 9 months to a year, don’t do it, because your priorities and vision of the future will have changed.
I built a small catamaran cruiser nearly 40 years ago and never finished it or got to sail it until it had moved through 2 subsequent owners because I started racing small cats at the same time and ran out of money. It’s still around. It was in Arklow a few years ago.
Also 40 years ago, a relation built a 34ft cat and headed off to the States with his family – back in 3 days, all seasick and the boat was sold at a huge loss.
I remember a neighbour that had a ferro hull in his garden for years – never finished it. And on, and on.

Advice:
The guy has not even finished drawing the plans of this very suspect boat. I would never buy plans and try to build a boat type that has never been built, launched, sailed etc.
“But the idea of building a boat and sailing down to the Azores - while living at the marina for the whole summer really appeals to me ”
Two points: building will take years and a lot more cash than you think. Living at any marina for a whole summer (and where will you keep it the rest of the time?) will cost a lot more than a holiday home or many sailing holidays.
If you have “The whole summer” and the kind of time it takes to build a boat, do what Damian Foxall and other Irish sailors have done, head for the Azores or Caribbean and get a job on charter boats and get some wonderful experience.
Jim.

pedroeibar1

Really this should be locked for the moment and saved for re-launch on April 1st. We could really have some fun then, without the risk of being banned for upsetting people.:)

OP is planning on spending north of 50k on materials on a prototype designed by a dreamer with no qualifications. There has yet to be a model made for a tank test. The designer’s experience is sailing from Boston to Florida. With the exception of a couple of not-very-difficult bits, that passage is mostly on the Intracoastal, a doddle. And he did it on the boat he is selling, a yawl. BTW and in case you missed it, the claimed hull speed for the new ‘yoke’ is based on what that vessel achieved.:rolleyes:

The batteries the designer intends using (Trojan T-105 6V 125Ah) are actually designed for golf carts. They are wet-cell lead acid, and he intends storing them in the bilge (OP research what batteries did in the ‘79 Fastnet + the changes introduced as a result).

But it gets better

In all, QUIDNON can be used to host an impromptu gathering of 20-30 souls, and they won't particularly interfere with each other unless they all want to do the same thing at the same time (but this is unlikely). If the weather isn't bad, lots more people can hang out on deck, which is flat and can be set up with deck chairs and an awning.

And even better

Oh, and it bears mentioning that all of these activities are quite possible with the boat under way.

But what takes the biscuit is

Referring to the illustration, the black dot near its center is the mainmast, which can be used for pole-dancing.

Tell me this, where will the pony and its hay bales go while all this is going on?

Pedro
(Not a snooty yachtsman, just one with common sense & standards)

micka

neris wrote: »

Is the designer russian because when it comes to boats russian yacht designers are dreamers without any real world experience. .

The designer is Russian, been living on boats with his family over ten years and sails down to Florida (and possibly Bahamas the odd time) each winter.

The keels too far forward, the hull shape is only suitable for down wind sailing and with that rig she ain't going into any sort of head wind

He's got inspiration and advice from a number of designers: Phil Bolger, Tom Colvin, Reuel Parker, Chris Morejohn, Matt Leyden, Dave Zeiger. From what i can see there all masters of their craft, built lots of scows with junk sails that seem to have no problem tacking windward..

"..I designed a fan sail, which, as I have demonstrated yesterday, works remarkably well to windward. Here's my recipe. There are 5 panels, all fan-shaped, and 6 spars. Starting at the bottom, there is a boom, 4 battens and a gaff. All the panels are exactly the same in height at the luff and taller at the leach. The boom is horizontal, while each spar going up is angled 8º more than the previous spar, adding up to a 40º angle for the gaff."

There's far more practical and prettier kit builds out there you could buy the plans for and build.

Great, if you could post links to such kits that provide the spaciousness, sailing capability etc, i'd be willing to check same out.

neris

This is a piss take. The OP has been on boards since 2005 has 50 odd posts and not one in this forum. Its a pipe dream of someone who hasnt the faintest notion about the sea or boats. Those designers you quote are small time designers and probably not even qualified. Googled one name on your list and he designs and sails boats that you can barely squeeze 2 people into and sails them in the tropics, another has a heap of designs but very few builds. if you were keen to build and sail youd have researched other kit builds and at least come on here asking which one people think would be best

micka

Conchir wrote: »

..looking at the plan picture in the OP, would it not be roughly where you'd expect it in terms of centre of effort and centre of lateral resistance?

Well the designer has completed all sorts of tests using boat build software, built a 1/12 scaled model (was happy with that) and is now building a 1/5 scale model - so hopefully i'll find out more soon

Here's some more CGI pics that might provide more clarity on the drop down keels -

1.


2.


3.


4.


5.

A sauna is a very strange thing to include OP, especially if you'd plan on basing yourself in warmer climes than Ireland?

'Each to their own', this is primarily a houseboat. Racing, speed, 'prettyness' etc, is all irrelevant. Sauna sounds great to me .

pedroeibar1

As a kid we had a horse on our foredeck, (Google is your friend) but I still cannot see the pony in those CGI’s.

@Neris, of course it is a piss-take; in the cgi above there is a guy having one against the wheelhouse, and ‘yer one’ with the white bikini top and no bikini bottom is leaning suspiciously on the leeward rail (very French). So is the guy standing at the galley sink (very Russian).

OP, if you are serious about this build I suggest you consider a big fan on the stern (the bit at the back) to help propel it and recharge the batteries.

JamesM

Michael, Take advice from people with experience. It is obvious from the little bit we’ve read on that blog that this guy knows very little about marine design.

3 tons of anchor chain under the floor. 5 tons of water ballast – to be blasted out with compressed air if the boat is holed. “ Water tanks now provide 5 tons of additional flotation.”
“The next step is to break out the emergency hull repair kit. It contains some canvas, a few pieces of plywood and MarineTex epoxy. Mix the epoxy, and use it to coat a piece of plywood large enough to cover the hole in the hull. Note that the plywood has kerfs (little slots) cut into one side, to make it bendy. When you put the plywood over the hole, the kerfs should face out, not in. Also coat a piece of canvas cut big enough to cover the entire area of the repair. Now go up on deck, dive overboard and apply first the plywood, then the canvas over it. Once the leak is stopped, start the motor (it may need to be partway up on its slide to keep the air intake above water) so that there is electricity for the bilge pump and wait for the water inside the cabin to be pumped out.”
A 40hp outboard will provide enough electricity to run a bilge pump that will pump out a hull that size ?

Copper sheathing the hull. Why, if it will already be sheathed with glassfibre. How much is copper for that very wide hull ?

“To get rid of excess moisture in the salon and the cabins, there is the continuous row of deadlights all around the sheer strip. These are single-glazed, and the condensation they form will trickle down to the bilge and get pumped out.”

When asked why he replaced the pulpit with bulwarks he says:
There were a few different realizations that went into making the decision in favor of bulwarks.
• The stanchions and the rest of the welded stainless added up to quite a sum. Plywood and fiberglass are cheaper.
• There wasn't any reasonable way of reinforcing the deck arches except to extend the sheer strips up.
• It turned out that QUIDNON is a bit wet, and without bulwarks at the bow and the stern the deck would be awash more often than might seem pleasant.
• It turned out that added windage doesn't do much for QUIDNON's surprising ability to sail to windward.

All figured out after sailing a model in almost no wind.
I could go on, but it’s actually very sad reading.
Jim.

Tabnabs

OP, you might be interested in Roger Taylor, a hugely experienced small boat sailor who has cruised the North Atlantic for many years with a junk rigged boat. This guy specialises in high latitude sailing, but the Atlantic is the Atlantic whichever part you choose to cross.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jsPOlg7Ovc

There's also the Swedish guy who sails a unique boat called Yrvind. I'm pretty sure I met him with his previous boat in DL Marina a few years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K0OOxjii2U

This will also give you an idea of the cost to keep the boat in a marina in the Azores.

http://www.marinasazores.com/horta/Tarif%C3%A1rio/tabid/530/Default.aspx

micka

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the constructive feedback! Anything mentioned that can be taken back to the designer for his comments will be followed up with.

Cheers again,

Michael

JamesM

Michael, Looking at that guy’s schedule, it’s going to be 2 years before he launches a new design that has not been proven. Most importantly, the building method has not been proven. If you insist on building this boat, at least do not start until his boat has been built, launched and sailed.

You live in Birr with your family. Lough Derg is less than an hour away. If you want to sail and learn about boats, you have 2 years to get a boat, enjoy the summers with your family on the water and gain a lot of experience.
If you want to hone your boatbuilding skills, you could do the same as Fergal Butler and buy a wreck for a lot less money than you are proposing to spend and be sailing by the Summer. Have a look at what is possible when you put your mind to it http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057583016
Jim

Steve

OP, you are nuts.

If I won the lotto and was allergic to money, I still wouldn't spend it in something like this.

Seriously, is this for real or a wind-up?