The eu will bankrupt ireland

kerry cow

I read George lees report on the huge economic loss to ireland , now with the hard exit coming .
Is there more for ireland to be gained , from the eu been in the eu compared to the losses we are going to endure, to not free trading with the UK .
The UK , USA and putin will trade between themselves .They don't need the eu .trump is right when he talks about the Bullsht of the eu . Kiss good bye to the good days thing are going to get alot worse .thankfully I am not borrowed because ireland is going broke .
It's rubbish to talk of Kenny should tell may this that and the other .like we were once a proud nation the UK will stand on her own two feet and no one will tell her what to do .The UK don't give two ****es about dublin .
People just don't get it . Britain has always in history been in control of its own destiny .It never lost the pound and it's sick to death of the Germans and french.
The yanks don't give a crap about anyone anymore but themselves as shown by trump elections .
And neither does putin as the people would rather starve than deal with the eu .
We are fcuked.

farmerjj

Where have you been for the last decade I think we don't need the EU to bankrupt us!!!

pedigree 6

Well we're certainly looking like we're entering interesting times.

I hear people talking about a speech Theresa May made today about pulling out of the eu common market. I didn't hear it myself.

But it's uncertain what's going to happen in this country now.

It atm looks like Russia, the US and Britain will be going in a trade deal together.
Could anyone call that a year ago??

But who knows? A day can be a lifetime in politics.

We're living in interesting times.:p

Muckit

If we still got the cheque in the post, would we be better off out of the EU? Discuss

patsy_mccabe

No we are not ****ed. No one is going to cut off its nose to spite its face. Free trade is a win win situation for all.
A lot of shadow boxing going on at the moment.

PMU

you`re some pessimist,kerry

kerry cow

Pmu .Please fill me with all the benifit of the brexit and trump and putin giving the 2 figures to the EU . All the good things that are going to come fill our pockets with cash .

amacca

Muckit wrote: »

If we still got the cheque in the post, would we be better off out of the EU? Discuss

Is yes the right answer?

Are there two answers?......the one you say in public and the one you really think in private?

kerry cow

farmerjj wrote:

Where have you been for the last decade I think we don't need the EU to bankrupt
.It was the tri ca from the eu that delivered the medicine to the irish people to bail out the banks and repay the Germans . The Germans fail over many years to win the physical war and now they are trying to financial break the Europeans . It's the Germans that created the cap so as the french farmers could grow and in exchange the industries of Germany could flourish .that's how so many Germans have jobs and are the bankers of Europe supporting the rest of us .We are on the Germans dole and our country cannot survive with out its suckle.
UK won't put up with that crap .We are where we are and like I have been saying with a long time but people are so blind on here .I suppose that's why you have people who have vision and those who don't .Some people will like me and more people will tick the comments of the next guy .Every one is entitled to there Option on here .
cosy french and Germans .
I love our Republic but think we should stick to the UK for trading .

pedigree 6

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-speech-big-f-word-you-to-eu-german-mep-hisher-name-twitter-european-parliament-a7531566.html

It's hard to know what's going to happen Kerry cow.

But I don't think anyone couldn't expect May's speech to be anything less when the EU were looking for cash for Britain to be "allowed" trade with the EU.
This is the opening shot across the bows and may be not what the EU was expecting. I thought I was listening to auld Maggie there for a minute.

kerry cow

But you were .
They Would give it to you between the eyes without a blink.
Their present attitude is up yours germany .
You don't tell them what to do .I have worked there many a year and this is what they have wanted for a long time .there's no fear of the UK economy .you got to give it to them , ballsE
Irish policy makers have this European blindness , a disease , cancerous. It will kill us slowly .look we are too afraid to do anything .
The dail is now like a county council .They sit and discuss and distribute the funds that Brussels allocate .end of .
We have a council but not a country any more .the county of ireland .
.

patsy_mccabe

PMU wrote: »

you`re some pessimist,kerry

kerry cow

I think the farmer should be a business man and not a optimist . As the wives of irish farmers are sick of hearing it will be better next year .

Genghis Cant

kerry cow wrote: »

I think the farmer should be a business man and not a optimist . As the wives of irish farmers are sick of hearing it will be better next year .

Probably not that far off the mark. A bit of a realist is no harm either.

kk.man

What's more worrisome at this stage is we are about to loose our biggest ally in Europe...no matter what folk think about the British for many years they were our big brother at the top table...Irish Deplomacy since 1922 was based on agreement...it had to be we had no big axe to weld...so no Irish Politician talked down to a foreign head of state...Germany is not an emeny of the world she has her own problems with the rise of Russia and even more so that the UK has left the alliance of the EU which was set up as a stable Union after WW2. However i do believe the Union has itself to blame by going too federal.

Username John

kerry cow wrote: »

I think the farmer should be a business man and not a optimist . As the wives of irish farmers are sick of hearing it will be better next year .

Agree with this...

Not sure I agree with your logic of following the uk - it's that 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' kinda logic...

Let's say we were to leave - do you think the UK would treat us better, and we'd be sitting at the with the UK, the US and Russia? Can't see that happening...

I think the UK will be minding their own for a while to come, and will have job enough to do in that... they won't give a ****e about little old us, even if we did leave to be friends with em...

I think we're better off where we are... but we are definitely better off holding out for a while, even if you think we should leave the EU... twould be a very foolish thing to do anything now, see how it plays out for the UK first...

Waffletraktor

The uk will head towards being the singapore of the west. As blunt as this is, the idea of ireland taking some of the banking or big business is mad as ireland can't offer a desireable lifestyle to the wealthy like the home counties and london can.
Previously it was the royal navies rule of 2 that gave britain the global power to go around drug dealing/thieving natural resources and exploitation of the Empire that gave them the money. Since the 1st world war especially the monies being running out and folk think they can reverse this, (i guess they can magic up a few dozen supercarrier battlegroups:pac:). Interesting times.

Bass Reeves

The EU has serious issue it's permanent civil service run the EU without a political counter balance . For years people accepted this but over the last 10-15 years these civil servants have come to accept that what ever they propose is right.

In Ireland at political level we seem to think legislation solves everything and them we have an administrative sector that make this as complicated as possoble. On top of that we have political elite that craves the center ground and are becoming a too politicall y correct.

But those that think that Britian will walk away from the EU without serious economic pain is not being realistic. A Chinese curse is that you may live in interesting times but the counter balance is that the word danger and opportunity are the same word. The UK is in for a fair shock the EU is it's closest market and it exports. While it's imports exports are balanced it imports and exports 50% approx of it's good to the EU.

But the real pain for the UK may come from its multi national sector that may move administration sections to deal with the EU away from London. As well some of Londans financial sector may move away from the UK. Trading with the the USA and Russia's will not replace that. The reality is that it may have to swop markets from it doorstep to ones that are in different time zones and thousands of miles away.

Britian has never been a friend of Irish farmers. It has always had a cheap food policy. It is interesting as well that alot of our issues with live export has come from animal lobby's in the UK. It is also extremely nationalistic about it's food sector. IMO we as a nation are better off sitting right at present and use this opportunity to lessen EU bureaucracy and hope we benefit from the fallout of Brexit.

patsy_mccabe

This tells it's own story.

kowtow

Bass Reeves wrote: »

But the real pain for the UK may come from its multi national sector that may move administration sections to deal with the EU away from London. As well some of Londans financial sector may move away from the UK. Trading with the the USA and Russia's will not replace that. The reality is that it may have to swop markets from it doorstep to ones that are in different time zones and thousands of miles away.

Id have few fears for the City of London. That single square mile has been the largest Forex market in the world since well before the EU, and will likely remain so. It's position in between time zones, and the English Legal system put it miles ahead of any alternative Europe could offer - and besides, Europe will now have no opposition to implementing it's Financial Transaction Tax, a hit on every single trade, and that's hardly going to encourage banks to locate anything other than the rubber stamp department to Dublin or anywhere else.

Anglo Saxon Finance was never at home in the Napoleonic economies of Europe, and like it or not the money world plays by Anglo Saxon rules. Why else would there be more Euros traded in London every day (a Sterling economy) than in the whole Euro zone put together?

The issue for Ireland is that up to now we have been trying to play a Napoleon's game by Nelson's rules, and sooner or later we are likely to be found out and forced to make a real choice.

Bass Reeves

There is no doubt that the City of London is a huge financial center. Anglo Saxon rules have a large part to part to play in it. However it is dependent on the free travel of goods and services (money is included in this) in the EU. If it has not unfettered access to the EU banking system then that changes. I think it is unlikely that the EU will allow the UK unfettered access to the EU and allow it to be a sort of tax free zone outside but within the EU.

Take Threasa May 12 point plan free travel for paddy but not for Hans. Well maybe Hans was not the issue but Mareck from Poland or Mustef the Turk. Brexit was really voted in by the old industrial heartlands of the UK. How will May keep these on side if the city of London is the only beneficiary. There is a section of British society that expects that it can recreate the old British empire. That it will have unfettered access to cheap raw material from Canada, NZ and Australia as well as access to US, Russia and the Asian economies and with low tax rates and low wages export into the EU. It's once heavy industries were desimated like ours by cheaper imports.

Take eBay from the UK you can buy a Timberpro chainsaw for approx 150 euro with. Two year warranty. Access to the EU is critical for these small micro companies that trade to the EU. If there is a 10% import tax it wipes them out. The EU is the biggest economy in the world right at the UK doorstep. It will not get unfettered access to it and to the rest of the world.

kowtow

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is no doubt that the City of London is a huge financial center. Anglo Saxon rules have a large part to part to play in it. However it is dependent on the free travel of goods and services (money is included in this) in the EU. If it has not unfettered access to the EU banking system then that changes. I think it is unlikely that the EU will allow the UK unfettered access to the EU and allow it to be a sort of tax free zone outside but within the EU.

I don't see it that way at all, Europe is a customer of the City and what the City has for sale can't really be replicated effectively in any current European jurisdiction, for legal and historical reasons but much more because of political climate. It's difficult to imagine Europe falling down on it's promises to implement a Financial Transaction Tax (the ultimate populist measure!) and when it does so it will in effect pour treacle on it's already relatively illiquid markets. As of this morning the ECB balance sheet is about three and a half trillion dollars - a very unhealthy state of affairs if liquid markets and access to capital are economic priorities.

The EU would struggle if it didn't have access to the City of London - but the City is far from dependent on the EU.

Edit: outside the specific case of the City, I agree with you that losing EU markets will hurt parts of the UK, but I'd be optimistic there too. I caught up with my wife's family over Christmas and of two brothers in law in commerce, both of whom export worldwide from the UK, the talk was all of sales in American, Middle Eastern & Far Eastern markets with barely a thought for any negative implications from losing single market access.

barnaman

Going to be interesting for us and England

http://www.britishirishchamber.com/value-of-goods-1996-2015/

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/alldfawebsitemedia/ourrolesandpolicies/ourwork/statevisit2014/Economic-Facts.pdf

"The UK exports more to Ireland than it does to China, India and Brazil combined. And thats the reality there is alot of talk of UK exports tot China etc yet out small population takes more British goods than over half the worlds population"

kowtow

barnaman wrote: »

Going to be interesting for us and England

http://www.britishirishchamber.com/value-of-goods-1996-2015/

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/alldfawebsitemedia/ourrolesandpolicies/ourwork/statevisit2014/Economic-Facts.pdf

"The UK exports more to Ireland than it does to China, India and Brazil combined. And thats the reality there is alot of talk of UK exports tot China etc yet out small population takes more British goods than over half the worlds population"

Indeed it will.

One of the most confusing things about the Brexit debate is the fact that the very long standing quasi-internal trade between the UK & Ireland which is so much of all our everyday lives is lumped in as though it was trade brought about by the EU - both Ireland's figures and England's are distorted by this.

It would be informative, IMO, if both Ireland and England published figures which excluded or separated trade between the two Islands, so we'd all see a bit better where we stand.

Irelands own figures of course are notoriously distorted by MNC transactional effects, which could also usefully be separated.

pedigree 6

I think Kerry cow you're right Ireland is fooked.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-negotiator-talks-french-michel-barnier-negotiation-insists-eu-article-50-conducted-a7373556.html

Qu'est-ce que l'irlande?

And there won't be an Irish person in the room.

the_syco

kerry cow wrote: »

Pmu .Please fill me with all the benifit of the brexit

The welsh farmers will lose their eu grants. I assume you do not get any eu grants?

_Brian

I think what we're seeing is a lot of posturing, each side taking a tough position to show the home guard that they are strong.

The truth is that both sides are very afraid of what is about to happen. The long complicated negotiations will start with both sides yielding nothing but I've no doubt that in the end a "fudge" will be revealed where both sides can return victorious to their minions claiming to have gotten a good deal.

Farming is way down the priorities in Europe now and I'd expect the US will be straight on with a trade deal including beef imports to to the U.K. This is our biggest threat. Am open border with the six counties is a political token.

laoch na mona

with eu environmental rules gone British ag could go towards the american model. Big farms, poor environmental standards, and less farmers

Donegalforever

I do not see any advantage in being so pessimistic.

I am a great believer in "not shaking hands with the devil until you meet him"

With regards the UK and USA, things are not likely to be as rosy as they would like others to believe at present. Time will tell.

Knowall Macduff

I wasn't very old when Ireland joined the EU but I do remember the depressed prices for cattle and milk because Britain was our only customer and Britain being an industrial country cheap food was more important than farmers, they haven't changed, I can't see how anyone would think they would be better off going back to that.

on the river

Europe is morally bankrupt.

farmerjj

on the river wrote: »

Europe is morally bankrupt.

Why do you say that?

Bass Reeves

_Brian wrote: »

I
Farming is way down the priorities in Europe now and I'd expect the US will be straight on with a trade deal including beef imports to to the U.K. This is our biggest threat. Am open border with the six counties is a political token.

I agree about farming being down the priority in Europe. This is because this generation are unworried about food security. They is always food in the supermarket's and they know no difference. In 1970 you still had a generation that remembered the war and food rationing. That went on until 1950. You can see the same thinking in China where they are buying land all over the world to achieve food security. The EU no longer see it as an issue

However I remained unconvinced about this UK/USA trade deal. Neither do I see cheap beef from the USA. Last year the USA had the highest before price in the world. They are experiencing issues with there beef production system. Drought caused the last issue and may happen again as well. Water supply to Feedlots is another issue. Irrigation is a huge part of the US food production system at present they are having to go deeper and deeper to find ground water. There is regulations starting to come in as water supply competes with domestic and industrial use.

Finally you have the issue of hormones, UK retailer's are the most regulations conscious inthe world in relation to beef after BSE. IMO the US would find it hard to crack the UK market. In reality as well while they are an exporter of beef in 2015 they consumed more than they produced. A drop in the price of beef in the UK could see a sharp drop in production of beef as like ourselves the UK would have a highish cost production system.

_Brian

While I think today's ruling is likely to delay triggering Article 50 I would still see it being triggered before the end of the year.

It's probably not going to be helpful to the UK negotiations team to have everything trashed out in public, it kinda tops their hand in the negotiations with the EU.

I find it hard to believe that there will be an open market for Irish foods to the UK, there's just nothing in that for the EU. If there are tariffs on Irish beef then I can't see near as much being shipped into the U.K.

If we export 90% of beef and 50% of those exports go to the U.K. How much of that do people expect to continue if tariffs are being applied ?? I just don't see an alternative market being found to take up the lost exports, beef consumption is on a downward trend across the eu as it is.

What are the chances of a tarrif on beef going to the us as Trump encourages consumption of foods produced inside the USA ??

20silkcut

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I agree about farming being down the priority in Europe. This is because this generation are unworried about food security. They is always food in the supermarket's and they know no difference. In 1970 you still had a generation that remembered the war and food rationing. That went on until 1950. You can see the same thinking in China where they are buying land all over the world to achieve food security. The EU no longer see it as an issue

However I remained unconvinced about this UK/USA trade deal. Neither do I see cheap beef from the USA. Last year the USA had the highest before price in the world. They are experiencing issues with there beef production system. Drought caused the last issue and may happen again as well. Water supply to Feedlots is another issue. Irrigation is a huge part of the US food production system at present they are having to go deeper and deeper to find ground water. There is regulations starting to come in as water supply competes with domestic and industrial use.

Finally you have the issue of hormones, UK retailer's are the most regulations conscious inthe world in relation to beef after BSE. IMO the US would find it hard to crack the UK market. In reality as well while they are an exporter of beef in 2015 they consumed more than they produced. A drop in the price of beef in the UK could see a sharp drop in production of beef as like ourselves the UK would have a highish cost production system.

But outside the EU there is nothing to stop the UK importing South American beef. They would quickly smarten themselves up to supply the demands of the UK and their picky consumers.
If the UK wanted to them to ditch the hormones for their market I'm sure they would happily oblige.

20silkcut

We better hope those French farmers get their slurry tanks on the street cause you sure as hell will die of the hunger if you were depending on the Irish farming lobby to fight our cause.

alps

Donegalforever wrote: »

I do not see any advantage in being so pessimistic.

I am a great believer in "not shaking hands with the devil until you meet him"

With regards the UK and USA, things are not likely to be as rosy as they would like others to believe at present. Time will tell.

Agree completely Donegal.....the pessimism is debilitating.....

Worse than that..the people who should know better are spending their days trying to frighten the chyte out of people. Our advisors, our farm organisations, all of our opinion formers are doing nothing but putting the frighteners up...there is no sense to it...

Britain is in a mess over this...not us...May looks nothing short of chemical Ali in her denial...
Now the hard Brexit is about "new relationship" encompassing "free trade agreement" that will be beneficial for Britain and for Europe.

This is going nowhere fast.....would the pessimists just back off the scare tactics...just because today is a good day doesn't mean well have to pay for it tomorrow with a bad one....

There only one thing worse than a man with a tie telling a lie...and that's a pessimist with a tie....

TITANIUM.

alps wrote: »

Agree completely Donegal.....the pessimism is debilitating.....

Worse than that..the people who should know better are spending their days trying to frighten the chyte out of people. Our advisors, our farm organisations, all of our opinion formers are doing nothing but putting the frighteners up...there is no sense to it...

Britain is in a mess over this...not us...May looks nothing short of chemical Ali in her denial...
Now the hard Brexit is about "new relationship" encompassing "free trade agreement" that will be beneficial for Britain and for Europe.

This is going nowhere fast.....would the pessimists just back off the scare tactics...just because today is a good day doesn't mean well have to pay for it tomorrow with a bad one....

There only one thing worse than a man with a tie telling a lie...and that's a pessimist with a tie....

Lol very good,
I hate all this doom and gloom **** myself. at this rate we'll talk ourself into trouble. This has real effects on the industry as it really damages confidence. That being said there is allot to be said for remaining informed IOT plan as best you can for whatever the future might bring.

Personally I don't see the doomsday scenario that some people are predicting playing out. I won't be taking any drastic measures to prepare for the rapture. Instead I'll keep the head up stick to my plan and keep going forward in the belief that there are always peaks and troughs in any industry, I just need to be in a position to take advantage when the time is right.
Don't worry lad's the sun will rise tomorrow. So you might might as well be smiling when it does.

Bass Reeves

20silkcut wrote: »

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I agree about farming being down the priority in Europe. This is because this generation are unworried about food security. They is always food in the supermarket's and they know no difference. In 1970 you still had a generation that remembered the war and food rationing. That went on until 1950. You can see the same thinking in China where they are buying land all over the world to achieve food security. The EU no longer see it as an issue

However I remained unconvinced about this UK/USA trade deal. Neither do I see cheap beef from the USA. Last year the USA had the highest before price in the world. They are experiencing issues with there beef production system. Drought caused the last issue and may happen again as well. Water supply to Feedlots is another issue. Irrigation is a huge part of the US food production system at present they are having to go deeper and deeper to find ground water. There is regulations starting to come in as water supply competes with domestic and industrial use.

Finally you have the issue of hormones, UK retailer's are the most regulations conscious inthe world in relation to beef after BSE. IMO the US would find it hard to crack the UK market. In reality as well while they are an exporter of beef in 2015 they consumed more than they produced. A drop in the price of beef in the UK could see a sharp drop in production of beef as like ourselves the UK would have a highish cost production system.

But outside the EU there is nothing to stop the UK importing South American beef. They would quickly smarten themselves up to supply the demands of the UK and their picky consumers.
If the UK wanted to them to ditch the hormones for their market I'm sure they would happily oblige.

No there is nothing to stop them but again Brazil with it hormone history and it environmental regarding deforestation will struggle to catch the market. Argentina is a good fit but what is I. It for British exporters. We import more from the UK than than China, the whole of South America individually if not combined. We are a high priced market with a higher margin than the UK. Tariffs work both ways. IMO a lot of what is going on with Brexit is partially an attempt to destabilise the EU. Remember with the advent of the euro it took 19 different currencies off the market. The money made trading against these currencies,along with foreign exchange was a colossal loss to the banking system. So alot of scaremongering is coming from the financial sector.

TBH I am kind of bullish on Brexit maybe I am wrong but I can see this as being more of a problem for the UK than for Ireland or the EU. We are too important of a market for the UK to ignore. As well the zUK imports French wine and cheese as well as wine from Italy, and Spain. Pork and Bacon from Denmark and the Netherlands as well as chicken from the Netherlands as well. IMO again a d maybe I am wrong the biggest issue for the UK is access for it financial sector to the EU and a lot of the scar mongering is originating from there with facts and figures.

kerry cow

The UK will do fine for its self.ireland is a dot to the UK and a pain in the ass to Europe .
The guys on here who want to keep there chin up and ignore the issue might as well Bury their heads in the sand .kerry shares have dropped day on day since the referendum. It's a sign of what's to come .The beef is doomed .maybe it's time for sexed dairy straws and get rid of the suckler herds .There will be enough beef from the dairy herd for every one .Don't see too much beef in nz.
Times of change are coming and we need to adopt .

coolshannagh28

A bit of rioting in Belfast ,a few shots fired and Ireland could be accommodated .Interesting that the Assembly collapsed just now after all of these years.....

patsy_mccabe

“You'll never find a rainbow if you're looking down”
― Charlie Chaplin

pedigree 6

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

A bit of rioting in Belfast ,a few shots fired and Ireland could be accommodated .Interesting that the Assembly collapsed just now after all of these years.....

At the risk of being a doom and gloom merchant.;)

There's a nationalistic current going through Europe atm with Le Penn in France and even the latest dairy demonstrations by French dairy farmers in Brussels looking for the return of milk quotas.

There's a current (I feel) of mè fèin and to hell with everyone else.
So Enda Kenny is happy for Michel Barnier to head these talks and to conduct the negotiations in French. (If it was a German leading these talks I bet it would be conducted in English). (But you know the French, big mè fèiners:rolleyes:).
I don't have the greatest feeling that Ireland will be given much thought during these talks.
I hope I'm wrong, deeply wrong. But....:rolleyes:

pedigree 6

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

“You'll never find a rainbow if you're looking down”
― Charlie Chaplin

Make hay when the sun shines.
Scrape the yard when it's raining.

Pedigree

kowtow

pedigree 6 wrote: »

There's a current (I feel) of mè fèin and to hell with everyone else.

I can't disagree with you but I also can't help wondering what is the polar opposite of mè fèin and whether we might have allowed the world to swing a little too far in that direction.

bogman_bass

kerry cow wrote: »

The UK will do fine for its self.ireland is a dot to the UK and a pain in the ass to Europe .
The guys on here who want to keep there chin up and ignore the issue might as well Bury their heads in the sand .kerry shares have dropped day on day since the referendum. It's a sign of what's to come .The beef is doomed .maybe it's time for sexed dairy straws and get rid of the suckler herds .There will be enough beef from the dairy herd for every one .Don't see too much beef in nz.
Times of change are coming and we need to adopt .

£28billion of exports is more than a dot
Ireland is the UK’s largest export market in food and drink, and second largest market in clothing, fashion and footwear. Trade in other sectors continues to grow. Two way trade stands over EUR 1 billion per week.

We account for roughly 1/12th of their total exports

TheQuietFella

kerry cow wrote: »

I read George lees report on the huge economic loss to ireland , now with the hard exit coming .
Is there more for ireland to be gained , from the eu been in the eu compared to the losses we are going to endure, to not free trading with the UK .
The UK , USA and putin will trade between themselves .They don't need the eu .trump is right when he talks about the Bullsht of the eu . Kiss good bye to the good days thing are going to get alot worse .thankfully I am not borrowed because ireland is going broke .
It's rubbish to talk of Kenny should tell may this that and the other .like we were once a proud nation the UK will stand on her own two feet and no one will tell her what to do .The UK don't give two ****es about dublin .
People just don't get it . Britain has always in history been in control of its own destiny .It never lost the pound and it's sick to death of the Germans and french.
The yanks don't give a crap about anyone anymore but themselves as shown by trump elections .
And neither does putin as the people would rather starve than deal with the eu .
We are fcuked.

The UK have absolutely NO intention of walking away from Europe despite all the rhetoric surrounding the exit. Constant talking of a ten year exit will extend beyond that and a new referendum will be called to turn the original decision around. Trump & Putin are yesterdays men!

pedigree 6

kowtow wrote: »

I can't disagree with you but I also can't help wondering what is the polar opposite of mè fèin and whether we might have allowed the world to swing a little too far in that direction.

Sinn Fèin I suppose.:P......:eek:;)

You may be right and maybe brexit and trump wouldn't have happened if we didn't go too far down that road.??

Edit: Every action has a reaction.

20silkcut

TheQuietFella wrote: »

The UK have absolutely NO intention of walking away from Europe despite all the rhetoric surrounding the exit. Constant talking of a ten year exit will extend beyond that and a new referendum will be called to turn the original decision around. Trump & Putin are yesterdays men!

The more you think about it the more you realise that the only solution to both Brexit and trump will be the politics of fudge. There are no losers in the politics of fudge. I'd equate jack lynch on the outbreak of the troubles proclaiming that "we will not stand idly by" with recent mutterings from Theresa May.
A soft brexit is the only outcome of the negotiations between the U.K and the EU. Even if both sides start off from a hard brexit position. There is absolutely no gain from a hard brexit for anyone's political career or in terms of popular vote or most of all economically. Hard to see the politician responsible for negotiating thousands of jobs to leave the cities of the UK being remembered as a great man or woman. They have two years to to come up with a different name and maybe even present a new package for the Uk parliament to vote ( they will hardly put it to the electorate again) For the UK to actively seek a hard brexit would be economic suicide and for the EU to agree to a hard brexit it would be economic suicide for them too. Will there be rioting on the streets of the UK if they don't get a hard brexit after two years or more of dragged on negotiations that everyone is sick of will anyone bar the daily mail really care? Tighten up immigration a bit maybe restrict it from certain countries make border guards more visible and move on. Lot of skilled politicians on both sides who could dress things up to look like a victory with really very little at all won.

Likewise Trump for him to go around tearing up trade deals and bring back heavy industry to the US at the taxpayers expense and cut off trade with his partners would also be economic suicide. He will renegotiate the deals get a concession here and there and move on it is the only option as long as he can say he is winning he won't really give a sh1te and he will be f*cked out after four years.
To make America great again. America is way better now than it was at anytime in its previous history. Likewise the U.K.
Sure certain areas have gone backwards but there was good and bad areas in the so called great period as well. There will always be winners and losers but there is far far more wealth in both countries today than there was 40-50 years ago. There is no going back this is a speed bump.
The alternative is incomprehensible a mass voluntary economic suicide unparalleled in history.
Usually such conditions are imposed by military defeat or colonial conquest. Nobody actively negotiates to make their economy smaller.

kerry cow

No body negotiates to shrink their economy but there has to be loosers and winners and then the ones who have no say at all .
I think history does repeat it's self and trump is a shoot from the hip get on with it type .he has done mad things before some have worked , some have failed .he is a business man and does takes risks and in the interest of getting America back on foot he will fcuk over who he wants .wait and see . If I wrong I am a donkey and your a hero .
The UK are a little more cooler but at the same time they will play this one to their advantage as history says that Britain will rule themselves and no doubt they will prosper at everyone's expense .
To me the UK and USA are taking control of there destiny and will make choices while the paddy will continue to be ruled by the Germans and french .
The Republicans are too focused on the UK while the Germans seeked in the back door and blind folded us .
Dail eireann is a county council of Europe .
Sadly

20silkcut

kerry cow wrote: »

No body negotiates to shrink their economy but there has to be loosers and winners and then the ones who have no say at all .
I think history does repeat it's self and trump is a shoot from the hip get on with it type .he has done mad things before some have worked , some have failed .he is a business man and does takes risks and in the interest of getting America back on foot he will fcuk over who he wants .wait and see . If I wrong I am a donkey and your a hero .
The UK are a little more cooler but at the same time they will play this one to their advantage as history says that Britain will rule themselves and no doubt they will prosper at everyone's expense .
To me the UK and USA are taking control of there destiny and will make choices while the paddy will continue to be ruled by the Germans and french .
The Republicans are too focused on the UK while the Germans seeked in the back door and blind folded us .
Dail eireann is a county council of Europe .
Sadly

The days of Britain prospering at everyone's expense are long long gone and nothing will bring them back. And it is not in their interest to bring them back.


Dáil Éireann may be a county council of Europe but the uncomfortable or perhaps the unpopular or ignored truth is that it is governing a far more prosperous wealthier country or county if you wish now than the struggling nation we were in 1973 and that is due massively to membership of the common market and tariff free trade with 500 million people.

The trouble with the UK and US is that the losers are a far more readily identifiable group and live in huge rust belt areas and can organise and promote demagogue politicians. But they just managed to scrape over the line in both constituencies. The stark indeed ridiculous reality of the economic shrinkage that these people are proposing will quickly shake the politicians into realising that a big massive fudge is the only option.