6 Nations 2017 General Discussion Thread

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Barnes should have sinbinned 2 Welsh front rows and/or given a penalty try. Would not have lasted so long then

Also Wales taking 4 minutes to get a replacement prop on the pitch (with Barnes not stopping the clock) added to the end time and allowed Welsh sin bin run out early. In fairness though, I doubt that with a minute to go, that the sin bin could ever return

If he'd sinbinned more Welsh front rows it would have led to uncontested scrums...

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If he'd sinbinned more Welsh front rows it would have led to uncontested scrums...

Hence the and/or

They were not just infringing at scrum time

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Hence the and/or

They were not just infringing at scrum time

My point is that sinbinning more Welsh front rows wouldn't necessarily have made the game finish quicker. If I was the French captain I'd be asking the ref not to do it, because it would have taken away France's biggest platform. Whether or not a penalty try was required is a grey area, I think one should have been given but its up to the ref's discrection.

Erik Shin

irishbucsfan wrote: »

My point is that sinbinning more Welsh front rows wouldn't necessarily have made the game finish quicker. If I was the French captain I'd be asking the ref not to do it, because it would have taken away France's biggest platform. Whether or not a penalty try was required is a grey area, I think one should have been given but its up to the ref's discrection.

The ref should have no discretion...The Welsh were cheating in dragging down the scrum...They got away with it once ...And knew that had a platform to keep on doing so...Again and again......It was off the hook redonckulous dude!

lawred2

Don't think it was deliberate. They were massively outmatched.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

Don't think it was deliberate. They were massively outmatched.

Doesn't matter, which can be a bitch, but it's a penalty conceded in stopping a near certain try

CMOTDibbler

Deleted User wrote: »

Doesn't matter, which can be a bitch, but it's a penalty conceded in stopping a near certain try

It only has to be a probable try...

irishbucsfan

Erik Shin wrote: »

The ref should have no discretion...The Welsh were cheating in dragging down the scrum...They got away with it once ...And knew that had a platform to keep on doing so...Again and again......It was off the hook redonckulous dude!

Of course the ref should have discretion. The entire sport hinges on the ref's discretion. I think he should have given one in one of the last scrums.

But by far the biggest problem that occurred in that game was what looked very much like blatant cheating by the French medical staff. I hope that is investigated and if they're found to be at fault the repercussions should be extremely severe.

CMOTDibbler

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

It only has to be a probable try...

Was talking about those particular instances but yeah

CatFromHue

So those bonus points aye

really changed the outcome of the competition :pac:

Quin_Dub

Deleted User wrote: »

Doesn't matter, which can be a bitch, but it's a penalty conceded in stopping a near certain try

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

It only has to be a probable try...

My issue in that instance was how could they make it "probable" with the persistent infringing?

At one stage , Maestri asked Barnes if a Penalty Try was an option and Barnes said "I need to see the scrum move more , it only moved 1.5M"

How could it move more if the Welsh were collapsing it!!!??

I know it's a bit Chicken and Egg , but surely after the multitudes of the same infringement there has to be scope for the Penalty try in that kind of scenario?

lawred2

Deleted User wrote: »

Doesn't matter, which can be a bitch, but it's a penalty conceded in stopping a near certain try

not saying it shouldn't have been a penalty try - just saying I don't think Wales would have deliberately repeatedly taken the scrum down. Presuming we don't all buy into Barnes being on the WRU payroll or whatever - the Welsh pack knew that they were on thin ice.

errlloyd

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But by far the biggest problem that occurred in that game was what looked very much like blatant cheating by the French medical staff. I hope that is investigated and if they're found to be at fault the repercussions should be extremely severe.

I've re-watched it a number of times, and I really don't think Barnes can be blamed at all. It was an absolute **** show across the board.

1: As you pointed out the french medical staff need to be examined.
2: Coaches leaving the technical area to talk to the medical staff.
3: The fourth official not knowing why Evans had left the field.
4: Wales not knowing who to take off when they were forced to bring on a prop.
5: The TMO taking about a week to get any available angle for the "bite".
6: The clock continuing to run at various points when I think it should have stopped (though I am not sure).

I read a pretty good article in the Wales Online (of all places) about how Barnes reffed the end well.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/wayne-barnes-big-decisions-right-12763778?utm_content=bufferc1b08&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

phog

Six Nations Player of the Tournament

Louis Picamoles (France)
CJ Stander (Ireland)
Finn Russell (Scotland)
Camille Lopez (France)
Maro Itoje (England)
Owen Farrell (England)
Joe Launchbury (England)
Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
Conor Murray (Ireland)
Sergio Parisse (Italy)
Rhys Webb (Wales)
Ken Owens (Wales)

errlloyd

Btw the following players got nominated for both 6 Nations player of the Tournament and EPCR player of the tournmanent.

CJ Stander
Conory Murray
Maro Itoje
Owen Farrell
Joe Launchbury
Stuart Hogg
Camille Lopez

Christy42

lawred2 wrote: »

not saying it shouldn't have been a penalty try - just saying I don't think Wales would have deliberately repeatedly taken the scrum down. Presuming we don't all buy into Barnes being on the WRU payroll or whatever - the Welsh pack knew that they were on thin ice.

Bringing it down was their only chance of winning. If France get a shove and they stay up they know they lose-no better han a penalty try that they risked by collapsing the scrum. Each reset gives them the chance that France get their timing wrong and gives a beaten Welsh scrum a way out. Or if they are very lucky Barnes penalises the wrong scrum and they get the penalty.

Having said that I am unsure if they had much of a choice. Going down can also happen because they are unable to stay on their feet in the scrum any longer which seems plausible. As such I don't overly judge them on it. The Welsh defense was beaten all ends up, doing what it could to cling on and they lost their composure. The rules are there to ensure that the beaten defense are punished for this, Barnes merely did not enforce them properly.

Edit: I should say that by the point I just mean that when you feel you are desperate hitting rucks you should not or slowing the ball down becomes a lot more tempting. Not that there was a team decision to cheat.

wp_rathead

Joe Launchbury 6N PotT for me

Picamoles for me. Was outstanding this tournament.

aloooof

Picamoles for me as well. Seems to have even improved against since joining Northampton.

Quin_Dub

aloooof wrote: »

Picamoles for me as well. Seems to have even improved against since joining Northampton.

I agree , I think playing in the Premiership has upped his fitness levels significantly.

Picamoles was the outstanding player , but I suspect that the award will go to an English player as they won the championship so on that basis I'd say Launchbury..

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Of course the ref should have discretion. The entire sport hinges on the ref's discretion. I think he should have given one in one of the last scrums.

But by far the biggest problem that occurred in that game was what looked very much like blatant cheating by the French medical staff. I hope that is investigated and if they're found to be at fault the repercussions should be extremely severe.

I can't see how anything could be proven one way or another. A HIA doesn't have to be for a head injury so it's not like a bite mark on Norths arm that you can point to and make a definitive statement about.

Personally I thought Barnes handled the whole thing pretty well all things considered. I'd have gone with a PT on one of the last couple of scrums, but I wouldn't be too put out that he didn't.

There was a lot of shoddy crap on the sidelines from both teams, but also not having an official that he could communicate with effectively (the guy who couldn't speak English) just made things far more difficult than they needed to be. It was a tough situation for Barnes to be in and he didn't let it get to him at all so props to him for that.


Yeah I went there.... :P

Former Former

I'm loving the fact that Wayne Barnes has been given the Clermont v Toulon quarter final.

aloooof

molloyjh wrote: »

I can't see how anything could be proven one way or another. A HIA doesn't have to be for a head injury so it's not like a bite mark on Norths arm that you can point to and make a definitive statement about.

Personally I thought Barnes handled the whole thing pretty well all things considered. I'd have gone with a PT on one of the last couple of scrums, but I wouldn't be too put out that he didn't.

There was a lot of shoddy crap on the sidelines from both teams, but also not having an official that he could communicate with effectively (the guy who couldn't speak English) just made things far more difficult than they needed to be. It was a tough situation for Barnes to be in and he didn't let it get to him at all so props to him for that.


Yeah I went there.... :P

Is it just me tho or does Barnes seem to get himself into these situations more than other refs? Of course, that could also be because he has a big enough personality to deal with issues like this, whereas a lesser ref may shirk some decisions?

Full disclosure: I haven't seen any of the France v Wales game yet, so can't really comment on this particular instance.

PTH2009

The RTE montage of past championship moments with time to say goodbye playing in the background was spine tingling stuff TBH and there broadcasts will be missed but they will still do our Autumn games each year

thomond2006

Six Nations Player of the Championship Shortlist

1. Stuart Hogg (Scotland) – 29,374 votes – 24.60% of the vote
2. CJ Stander (Ireland) – 18,078 – 14.95%
3. Louis Picamoles(France) – 15,528 – 12.84%
4. Joe Launchbury (England) – 10,836 – 8.96%
5. Finn Russell (Scotland) – 10,093 – 8.35%
6. Conor Murray (Ireland) – 9,566 – 7.91%
7. Owen Farrell (England) – 7,611 – 6.30%
8. Rhys Webb (Wales) – 6,672 – 5.52%
9. Sergio Parisse (Italy) – 4,033 – 3.34%
10. Ken Owens (Wales) – 3,696 – 3.06%
11. Camille Lopez (France) – 3,015 – 2.49%
12. Maro Itoje (England) – 2,027 – 1.68%

Total Votes: 120,889

Player of the Championship – previous winners

2016 – Stuart Hogg
2015 – Paul O’Connell
2014 – Mike Brown
2013 – Leigh Halfpenny
2012 – Dan Lydiate
2011 – Andrea Masi
2010 – Tommy Bowe
2009 – Brian O’Driscoll
2008 – Shane Williams
2007 – Brian O’Driscoll
2006 – Brian O’Driscoll

Buer

Well, that's a pretty massive and decisive winning margin in the end. Wouldn't have been my vote but I certainly can't argue with him getting the nod.

I probably would have reversed the top 4.

pickarooney

How did Finn Russell get into the list? I thought he was poor throughout.
Picamoles was the best player by a distance, I thought.

Buer

pickarooney wrote: »

How did Finn Russell get into the list? I thought he was poor throughout.
Picamoles was the best player by a distance, I thought.

Two MOTM awards from five games ain't half bad, in fairness (it's 60% bad).