TRIPPING RCD

kayner

My RCD trips out causing all power to go off except for the lights.I reset it and everything works perfectly. It might trip again in an hour -10 minutes-2 hours .not for 24 hours.or maybe not for days... and so on..reset it and away it goes again..it trips during the day -in the evenings and during the night when were in bed. To confuse me even more "sometimes " it trips when i plug in an exercise machine -[thought the machine was causing it so i unplugged it] didnt solve the problem,, it tripped when i tried to open electric gates , thought it was the gates. but it has tripped with nobody trying to open gates. it has tripped when i turned on the tv a few times.
To sum up,1: it trips when we plug in or switch on some appliances.. it trips when were in bed.. it trips sometimes when we open gates..

i have changed the RCD and it still trips , so its doing my head in.

is it possible the RCD is under rated. its 63 amp ...30ma.

help its doing my head in...

Satriale

Wrong forum, bud, try here...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1018

dudara

Moved to the Electrical forum

aido79

kayner wrote: »

My RCD trips out causing all power to go off except for the lights.I reset it and everything works perfectly. It might trip again in an hour -10 minutes-2 hours .not for 24 hours.or maybe not for days... and so on..reset it and away it goes again..it trips during the day -in the evenings and during the night when were in bed. To confuse me even more "sometimes " it trips when i plug in an exercise machine -[thought the machine was causing it so i unplugged it] didnt solve the problem,, it tripped when i tried to open electric gates , thought it was the gates. but it has tripped with nobody trying to open gates. it has tripped when i turned on the tv a few times.
To sum up,1: it trips when we plug in or switch on some appliances.. it trips when were in bed.. it trips sometimes when we open gates..

i have changed the RCD and it still trips , so its doing my head in.

is it possible the RCD is under rated. its 63 amp ...30ma.

help its doing my head in...

To answer your last question first.. your RCD is over rated if anything. There is absolutely no reason to have a 63amp RCD in a domestic board. It's the 30mA part which is causing the RCD to trip.
I would hazard a guess that your fridge/freezer may be the culprit. Would it be possible to unplug it for a while to see if that eliminates the problem?

foxy farmer

As you have mentioned electric gates is it safe to assume you are living in a rural area?
I have encountered 2 situations like yours and in both cases it was caused by earth current from a farmers electric fence coming into the fuse board through the earthing system. You'd need an electrician to open the board and check if there is fault current coming in on the main earth's. You could switch off all the circuits leaving just the RCD on and see what happens. Push up individual MCBS one by one might also identify if an individual circuit is the problem.

Bruthal

aido79 wrote: »

To answer your last question first.. your RCD is over rated if anything. There is absolutely no reason to have a 63amp RCD in a domestic board. It's the 30mA part which is causing the RCD to trip.
I would hazard a guess that your fridge/freezer may be the culprit. Would it be possible to unplug it for a while to see if that eliminates the problem?

If it's an RCD, 63 amp is its current carrying capacity rather than anything to do with trip ratings

aido79

Bruthal wrote: »

If it's an RCD, 63 amp is its current carrying capacity rather than anything to do with trip ratings

I am well aware of that. I just said there is no need for a 63 amp RCD in a domestic board. Do you disagree with this?

Tuco88

foxy farmer wrote: »

As you have mentioned electric gates is it safe to assume you are living in a rural area?
I have encountered 2 situations like yours and in both cases it was caused by earth current from a farmers electric fence coming into the fuse board through the earthing system. You'd need an electrician to open the board and check if there is fault current coming in on the main earth's. You could switch off all the circuits leaving just the RCD on and see what happens. Push up individual MCBS one by one might also identify if an individual circuit is the problem.

Would this cause the rcd to trip? I thought the rcd operates on an imbalance from the current in and out so detects N to E fault. So if the earth on the gate picks up stray current flows back to the C.U does it not go back via the pen.

Bruthal

aido79 wrote: »

I am well aware of that. I just said there is no need for a 63 amp RCD in a domestic board. Do you disagree with this?

Whatever ye think yourself.

aido79

Bruthal wrote: »

Whatever ye think yourself.

Ok I think there is no need for a 63 amp RCD in a domestic board.
I originally said that this was not the problem and it was the 30mA aspect of the RCD that was causing the problem.
The OP suggested that the RCD might be under rated. That's why I said the RCD is over rated if anything.

foxy farmer

Tuco88 wrote: »

Would this cause the rcd to trip? I thought the rcd operates on an imbalance from the current in and out so detects N to E fault. So if the earth on the gate picks up stray current flows back to the C.U does it not go back via the pen.

Could come in on ESB Neutral. Have seen it twice. Once link between ESB Neutral and main earth's terminal on consumer board is disconnected problem ceased. Even with all circuits disconnected the RCD would still trip. Multimeter showed a pulsing voltage and you could even hear the pulse through the meter.
Just a suggestion.

Bruthal

OP it is usually a neutral to earth fault that causes that problem, although not always. The RCD 63A rating has nothing to do with the problem.

If it is a neutral to earth fault on a circuit, unaffected circuits can cause a trip, but usually require a higher load than If something is plugged into the affected circuit.

You could try getting a plug in item and see does it cause instant tripping on any circuits. Try it in each room of the house and see does one always cause a trip. Use an electric kettle plugged in and switched on for a few seconds in each room.

Also if you have an immersion, switch it off.

Also it could be any outside circuits if there is anything outside the house. Dampness can get in which often is worse at night. Dampness can cause intermittent live to earth faults but not really neutral to earth.

Faults can be found by a decent electrician by isolating all rcd controlled neutrals from neutral bar and mcbs off, then using an insulation tester.

Delta Lima

You might get some more potential solutions from this old thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97648149

It's a little extreme, but installing a 2nd RCD to split up your socket circuits could help narrow down the problem. I often wonder in cases like this, if there is a few small earth leakage faults in appliances across different circuits . And if they add up to more than 30mA, then the RCD trips. A 2nd RCD might be useful in any case. This would be a job for a registered electrician.

Bruthal

Delta Lima wrote: »

You might get some more potential solutions from this old thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97648149

It's a little extreme, but installing a 2nd RCD to split up your socket circuits could help narrow down the problem. I often wonder in cases like this, if there is a few small earth leakage faults in appliances across different circuits . And if they add up to more than 30mA, then the RCD trips. A 2nd RCD might be useful in any case. This would be a job for a registered electrician.

Yea it's often been suggested here to put a second RCD in. Cumulative leakage certainly happens. It's possible for second RCD and split circuits to eliminate nuisance tripping.

Rcbos on all circuits might happen eventually, helping to greatly reduce the nuisance tripping, and to help locate problems causing it.

ptogher14

aido79 wrote: »

Ok I think there is no need for a 63 amp RCD in a domestic board.

Why?

ptogher14

OP it's a pain in the ass of a problem. Probably something small but sometimes it can be hard to find. I'd second with brutal on the immersion as the first port of call. Especiallyif you live in an area with hard water. I'd even suggest disconnecting it completely. A good electrician will find the problem but it could take time.

I'd suggest plugging out appliances for a few days at a time to eliminate them. Do this one at a time and not multiple ones.

The 63A rating has no impact on this and is not a problem. In fact some consumer units will come with a 63A RCD these days

magentis

Do you have a well or an external water softener op?

kramer1

Id say it's the fridge

aido79

ptogher14 wrote: »

Why?

There is nothing wrong with using it. I just don't think there is any need for it.
I suppose it depends on how many breakers are being monitored by the RCD but I think it's a dumb idea to put all of the socket circuits on the same RCD in a house. I think the lighting, socket and whatever else needs to be on a RCD should be split over 2 40amp RCD's.
That way if as I suggested originally that the fridge is the problem them the OP could grab an extension lead and plug the fridge into a socket under the other RCD and tell for sure if it is the fridge that's causing the problem.

Tuco88

Or better still rcbo's all round. Much neater to wire line and neutral at the one address. Makes fault finding alot better.

Bruthal

One good way to test if it's an individual appliance is with a plug in RCD. The main RCD will trip too, but if the individual one trips, if used on a fridge for example, that would be good evidence it's the fridge. So would the 2 RCD setup and changing the fridge from.one to other.

But a neutral to earth short on a socket circuit can cause an RCD trip when something is plugged into a different circuit. It can also cause a second RCD controlling the affected circuit to trip when something is plugged into a circuit on the first RCD on a double RCD setup, and the first RCD stays on along with the plugged in item. The 30ma sensitivity means it takes very little to trip them, which can cause seemingly strange trips.

Bruthal

aido79 wrote: »

.
The OP suggested that the RCD might be under rated. That's why I said the RCD is over rated if anything.

I must just be blind to the problem you see I guess.

aido79

Bruthal wrote: »

I must just be blind to the problem you see I guess.

I didn't say there was a problem...just that I don't see the need for a 63 amp RCD but as I've said, it depends on how many breakers are associated with it.

Stravos Murphy

Gone are the days of a 40amp rcd in a single row hager. And no door either.

Risteard81

Bruthal wrote: »

One good way to test if it's an individual appliance is with a plug in RCD. The main RCD will trip too

Actually, there is no guarantee which RCD will operate first or whether both will operate.

Stravos Murphy

Maybe the amp rating on the plug in rcd might prove inaccuracies?

Bruthal

aido79 wrote: »

I didn't say there was a problem...just that I don't see the need for a 63 amp RCD but as I've said, it depends on how many breakers are associated with it.

If they were the same or similar price, my opinion would be that there is no need to have 40 amp ones at all, unless there is some other advantage to them.

Bruthal

Risteard81 wrote: »

Actually, there is no guarantee which RCD will operate first or whether both will operate.

A faulty individual appliance will very likely trip both if the faulty appliance is plugged into the plug in one. Nothing is guaranteed though. The main board one can trip faster alright, leaving the plug in one unstripped. Or it can be one or other on different trips. There is a high probability that the plug in one will trip sometime though, if the plug in appliance has a fault of an RCD tripping nature. All academic anyway as it's only a worthwhile thing if there is one in the house.

People probably buy them for lawn mowers etc even though they are pointless unless they have an old style fuse board.

aido79

Bruthal wrote: »

If they were the same or similar price, my opinion would be that there is no need to have 40 amp ones at all, unless there is some other advantage to them.

That's true. I just think it's a much better set up to have 2 40 amp RCD's than one 63 amp RCD. I know it's off topic but I think it's ridiculous to have a situation where all of your sockets can lose power due to a faulty appliance.

Bruthal

aido79 wrote: »

That's true. I just think it's a much better set up to have 2 40 amp RCD's than one 63 amp RCD. I know it's off topic but I think it's ridiculous to have a situation where all of your sockets can lose power due to a faulty appliance.

Yes we have mentioned that here a few times down the years. We could always use 2 63A ones

But the time for all rcbo's is probably approaching.

Bruthal

Stravos Murphy wrote: »

Maybe the amp rating on the plug in rcd might prove inaccuracies?

It could alright. As said, there is no absolute guarantee the plug in one will trip with a fault if the DB one trips faster

Stravos Murphy

Was it even worth suggesting it?

aido79

Bruthal wrote: »

Yes we have mentioned that here a few times down the years. We could always use 2 63A ones

But the time for all rcbo's is probably approaching.

2 63 amps would work too. I live in Australia where using 2 RCD's in domestic boards has been standard for years. Is there any reason why it's not done in Ireland?
You're right about the rcbo's. It makes more sense to use them especially with the slimline versions available.

Bruthal

Stravos Murphy wrote: »

Was it even worth suggesting it?

Ah it's yerself...