how important a Earth Rod inspection Box?

Andy From Sligo

This house we moved in had a plastic green earth Rod Inspection on the back lawn and instead of being nicely sunk into the lawn it surfaced and easily to trip over (which we kept doing) so today I tried to take the 4 screws off the lid of the inspection box, they were rusted in and wouldnt come undone. so , with nothing else for it I got a lump hammer and proceeded to knock the earth rod (complete with box) - the box was so brittle (fatigued by weather, ice and UV rays more than likely) and shattered just exposing the rod and green & yellow earth wire

will I be ok (now the rod is driven lower into the ground) to just put some slate over the top of the rod and then just cover it with earth/grass or will I have to go to electrical factors and buy a new green Earth Inspection box or rod compleate with box (if I do, no worry I can get one from the the local electrical factors - but if I dont have to then I wont

Stravos Murphy

Earth rods are a waste of time, your case galvinisied rod probably half ate with rust and in contact with how much earth who knows.

Andy From Sligo

Stravos Murphy wrote: »

Earth rods are a waste of time, your case galvinisied rod probably half ate with rust and in contact with how much earth who knows.

yes the rod did look silver/galvanised rather than Copper I think - can ELCB in consumer box and earthing system in home still work effectively without Earth Rods installed?

foxy farmer

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

yes the rod did look silver/galvanised rather than Copper I think - can ELCB in consumer box and earthing system in home still work effectively without Earth Rods installed?

I would give a flying fxxx to what Murphy said. An "expert" on every thing is our Murphy.

Anyway back to your earth rod dilemma.
A vital piece of the electrical system in any installation. DO NOT under any circumstances interfere with it. Sounds like it was badly situated. A galvanised hinged cover set in concrete over the earth rod was used in the past but these plastic boxes are often used now. Usually sited on the footpath outside a house close to the fuse board. Get an electricians opinion on it if it's a nuisance. A new one could be driven. It's location must be visible for inspection and possible testing.

Bruthal

foxy farmer wrote: »

Anyway back to your earth rod dilemma.
A vital piece of the electrical system in any installation.

Not quite as vital or world ending if not in place as some might think when in neutralized installations, and in neutralized installations, are doing very little as individual earth rods, apart from helping maintain the neutral as a neutral in conjunction with all other earth rods on that particular network from the supply transformer.

But each installation should have a properly installed one of course.

eurokev

Stravos Murphy wrote:

Earth rods are a waste of time, your case galvinisied rod probably half ate with rust and in contact with how much earth who knows.

Mother of god

Andy From Sligo

took these pic's of inside of our outside meter box - it looks like we have the modern TN-C-S earthing system if that has any bearing on anything. Is Earth Rod still needed with the TN-C-S system?

Bruthal

It is still a requirement, even though it doesn't have as much a function as in a TT system, although in a broken neutral scenario, the earth rod in theory helps keep the neutral voltage at ground potential. In reality though, it doesn't do it very well.

So yes, it is still needed, along with a proper inspection box.

If you put in a new one at a different position, disconnect the old one then.

Risteard81

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

took these pic's of inside of our outside meter box - it looks like we have the modern TN-C-S earthing system if that has any bearing on anything. Is Earth Rod still needed with the TN-C-S system?

It is an absolute requirement of the Wiring Rules. Your pictures are based on IET (IEE) Wiring Regulations and therefore are completely and utterly irrelevant and invalid in Sligo.

Andy From Sligo

Thanks all for your input so far - yep i better buy a earth rod (or separate box if you can buy them separate) next week then from electrical factors then. - I should be able the put it in same place but lower down flush into the lawn should I? , just have it level with the lawn instead of poking up above the lawn like it was originally - just dont want to go to the hassle of re-siting it

xylitol_works

A story about earthing.


I've recently got some very mild static electric shocks from my sink.

Now, I know the sink should be earthed so I was wondering where the electric shocks are coming from. I was worried my earthing might be broken somehow.


I'm very proud that I've since worked out that I'm building up a static charge myself, by wearing wool base layer clothing under trousers made from polyester and cotton, while also wearing rubber soled shoes.

Static electricity is building up from friction between the dis-similar clothes, it cannot be discharged into the ground as I'm wearing rubber soles, and it's being discharged into the earth when I touch the sink.


So, the sink earthing must be working!

Happy days, apart form the shocks.

Andy From Sligo

I never forget when I first moved to sligo in the 90's we had an old 'dooer upper' bungalow and my in-laws got seamless aluminium guttering fitted and when I climbed up on the ladder I used to get a nip when I touched the Aluminium gutter, to rule out it wasnt in my head I got a phase tester screwdriver and put it on the guttering and lit.

Turns out that the ESB connected the tails from the house to the ones from the wooden pole taped up with whatever they taped them with (most probably insulation tape ... or plasters!!) and left them lying in the gutter and they were getting damp/wet - couldnt have been the whole 230v i was getting I suppose otherwise I might not be typing this on here now haha

Bruthal

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

- couldnt have been the whole 230v i was getting I suppose otherwise I might not be typing this on here now haha

If everyone that contacted 230 volts died at the scene, I'd be gone over 30 years ago, and many times since.

Andy From Sligo

Bruthal wrote: »

If everyone that contacted 230 volts died at the scene, I'd be gone over 30 years ago, and many times since.

yeah to be honest I too have had some bolts in the past, used to repair old black and white tvs years ago and got some nasty jolts from capacitors and the like. When I was 8 bulb was missing from fridge and I wondered what would happen if i stuck me fingers in the socket .. I found out

Risteard81

xylitol_works wrote: »

Now, I know the sink should be earthed

The sink will be bonded and not earthed. They are not the same thing.

Cerco

Bruthal wrote: »

If everyone that contacted 230 volts died at the scene, I'd be gone over 30 years ago, and many times since.

Which just goes to illustrate it is the current that kills.

Andy From Sligo

What is an Electricians favourite cake? ......... a Current Cake

exaisle

Cerco wrote: »

Which just goes to illustrate it is the current that kills.

It's volts that jolts but mills that kills.....

Bruthal

Cerco wrote: »

Which just goes to illustrate it is the current that kills.

Takes roughly 0.05 amps to be in danger. A car starter motor takes around 90 amps for a 1kw starter. That's 1800 times the 0.05 level. No one will be electrocuted by the car battery

But besides that, surviving a 230v shock does little to demonstrate that it's the current that kills, and voltage doesn't matter.

That's over simplistic mythical stuff. The main factors in shock level are current and duration. The current is directly dependent on voltage, as well as other factors.

230v can send a wide ranging current level through a person, from zero upwards well past fatal level, depending on many factors

Cerco

Bruthal wrote: »

Takes roughly 0.05 amps to be in danger. A car starter motor takes around 90 amps for a 1kw starter. That's 1800 times the 0.05 level. No one will be electrocuted by the car battery

But besides that, surviving a 230v shock does little to demonstrate that it's the current that kills, and voltage doesn't matter.

That's over simplistic mythical stuff. The main factors in shock level are current and duration. The current is directly dependent on voltage, as well as other factors.

There is nothing mythical about stating it is the current that kills whether it is 23V or 230 V. As you rightly state there are many other factors which determine the intensity of the current, including voltage, impedance and the the points of entry and exit from the body. Fibrillation can be caused by low current across the heart (hand to hand). Keep one hand behind your back if you must work on live circuits.

Risteard81

Cerco wrote: »

Bruthal wrote: »

If everyone that contacted 230 volts died at the scene, I'd be gone over 30 years ago, and many times since.

Which just goes to illustrate it is the current that kills.

It's the volts that jolt but the mills that kill.

Risteard81

Oops sorry - just noticed someone got in ahead of me with that one! :-)

Armchair Andy

Bruthal wrote:

If you put in a new one at a different position, disconnect the old one then.

Why so? Non practising spark of more than 20 years asking.

Risteard81

Armchair Andy wrote: »

Bruthal wrote:

If you put in a new one at a different position, disconnect the old one then.

Why so? Non practising spark of more than 20 years asking.

The more earth rods the better. I see no advantage is disconnecting one.

Bruthal

Cerco wrote: »

There is nothing mythical about stating it is the current that kills whether it is 23V or 230 V..

In my opinion, 23v won't electrocute too many

Keep one hand behind your back if you must work on live circuits

I must admit I never bothered with that one. If I was sorting out a 3 gang light switch someone messed up in thier house, I wouldn't have a hand behind the back for it.

Risteard81

Bruthal wrote: »

Cerco wrote: »

There is nothing mythical about stating it is the current that kills whether it is 23V or 230 V..

In my opinion, 23v won't electrocute too many

Because it won't drive a sufficient current through the human body. (And if it's SELV then there will be no earth reference either.)[/quote]

Stravos Murphy

An earth rod is like a pawn on a chess board.

Tuco88

A good utube channel photonicinduction, he's a highly intelegent bloke good god he does some crazy things with high current.

wing52

I think photonic induction is about the show. A youtuber called john ward is a lot drier in manner but great at explanation. You could also look up rodalco2007 as well

Bruthal

Armchair Andy wrote: »

Why so? Non practising spark of more than 20 years asking.

Only 1 is required. Having 2 makes little difference to the system. Failed neutral and now you have multiple ground points as the neutral path, which is probably not great for separate ground potential pools etc around more than one earth rod at a house.

And you would want both with proper inspection boxes probably. So no point of going to the bother of adding a new one then.

All opinions, but if it was myself, I'd remove the old one if putting in a new one.

Bruthal

Stravos Murphy wrote: »

An earth rod is like a pawn on a chess board.

No.pawns and it's game over.

Andy From Sligo

Although rare i should imagine - could this kind of scenario ever happen when you have a property with an earth rod in the ground outside? (cue bad mspaint diagram )

2011

Not only could it happen, it has happened.

Andy From Sligo

2011 wrote: »

Not only could it happen, it has happened.

well thats not very safe then :eek: - gonna have to tell the family not to go near sink or metal pipes in the house then next time lightening. Some electronics in the house are grounded by earth like laptop adaptors as well and some hi-fi equipment so I reckon they could get hit also and banjax them