Aggressive Dublin bus driver

Idioteque

Just had my first incident with a bus driver. Beeping from behind lots then swearing in front of me - his issue was cycling in bus lane and not on footpath cycle lane. (I know as I pulled up to his window to have a chat about his behavior) The irony is I do use cycle lanes for the majority of my journey but this section is particularly treacherous for glass and wet leaves etc. so I don't bother anymore on this small stretch.
Also, I alternate between getting this bus and cycling so well aware of this driver's tendencies to beep anything else that moves.

Have done the Dublin Bus complaint form and know it probably doesn't go anywhere but sure tis good to vent here I guess!

JeffKenna

So you admit to being in the wrong yet still want to complain the driver? Did you apologise to him?

amcalester

JeffKenna wrote: »

So you admit to being in the wrong yet still want to complain the driver? Did you apologise to him?

How was he in the wrong?

Mouseslayer17

Stay out of bus lanes and you'll be grand

accensi0n

JeffKenna wrote: »

So you admit to being in the wrong yet still want to complain the driver? Did you apologise to him?

It's legal to cycle in a bus lane....

looksee

I would kinda imagine that complaining to Dublin Bus about being beeped at by a bus driver while you were in a bus lane would be a good way of getting yourself a fine

Edit, yeah ok, just checked, its ok.

accensi0n

looksee wrote: »

I would kinda imagine that complaining to Dublin Bus about being beeped at by a bus driver while you were in a bus lane would be a good way of getting yourself a fine

Fine for what?

punisher5112

accensi0n wrote: »

It's legal to cycle in a bus lane....

The minister that opened that up has left a grey area and it actually still has to be verified on statute.

Eamonnator

looksee wrote: »

I would kinda imagine that complaining to Dublin Bus about being beeped at by a bus driver while you were in a bus lane would be a good way of getting yourself a fine

A fine for what?

cajonlardo

I am hoping those three posters, looksee, Jeffkenna and Mouseslayer broadcasting their ignorance of the rules of the road are not drivers.

If they are indeed drivers is it any wonder insurance costs are so high?

Moflojo

This thread, oh boy!

punisher5112

He eating pop corn mighty fast.

Idioteque

My bad, I thought posting in the cycling forum would mean mostly cyclists who know the score would see it/reply....forgot it would attract certain others looking for a chance to get back on their pedestal.

Wesser

While you may not have broken the law here, I'm sure you can understand it from the bus drivers point of view. He sees a cycle Lane, he doesn't know that there is glass and wet leaves on the cycle Lane, he gets angry, you are angry, result... 2 angry people wrecking each others day.

I know that I'm Cycling in the bus lane, it because the cycle Lane is covered in glass and wet leave, it is dangerous fir me cycle on tbis short stretch, could you please not curse at me like that, it is legal.for me to cycle here.

Oh right I didn't know that... right... well... ok... that explains it so

Right so...see you tomorrow

Sure, see you.

degsie

OP make sure to update the thread on how your complaint progressed. Thanks.

Idioteque

Wesser wrote: »

I know that I'm Cycling in the bus lane, it because the cycle Lane is covered in glass and wet leave, it is dangerous fir me cycle on tbis short stretch, could you please not curse at me like that, it is legal.for me to cycle here.

Actually the above is pretty much word for word what I said to him - he shouted "its illegal and I have to use the lane and they cost millions to build etc.". I told him I use cycle lanes for most of the journey but not that part but he didn't give a dogs...

Regardless, I can deal with a bit of beeping but swerving in front of me so that the side of the bus is a few inches away is pretty dangerous in this weather

micar

I experienced this before.

Heading into town on the N11 coming past rte into donnybrook.

The cycle lane is on the footpath but on this section I never use it due to 1) poor state of the cycle lane 2) pedestrians in the footpath and 3) the way the cycle lane goes behind a bus shelter between a wall, there just isn't enough space and it's quite dangerous.

For those who know this section the bus lane is quite wide and would easily have passed me.

He just wanted to make a point and try and bully me off the road.

He was driving a double decker which was a costal tour bus. The bus was also empty.

jimd2

Idioteque wrote: »

Actually the above is pretty much word for word what I said to him - he shouted "its illegal and I have to use the lane and they cost millions to build etc.". I told him I use cycle lanes for most of the journey but not that part but he didn't give a dogs...

Regardless, I can deal with a bit of beeping but swerving in front of me so that the side of the bus is a few inches away is pretty dangerous in this weather

As a driver that has been sometimes frustrated by cyclists in Dublin I have to say that I would still be in agreement with you (based on your account). Fair nenough (maybe) a beep to point out that you were in the bus lane but to start swerving like that in any weather conditions let alone current ones is criminal and very dangerous.

Mouseslayer17

Cyclists think they own the road shocker

punisher5112

micar wrote: »

I experienced this before.

Heading into town on the N11 coming past rte into donnybrook.

The cycle lane is on the footpath but on this section I never use it due to 1) poor state of the cycle lane 2) pedestrians in the footpath and 3) the way the cycle lane goes behind a bus shelter between a wall, there just isn't enough space and it's quite dangerous.

For those who know this section the bus lane is quite wide and would easily have passed me.

He just wanted to make a point and try and bully me off the road.

He was driving a double decker which was a costal tour bus. The bus was also empty.

That cycle lane is quite good and plenty of room to pass shelter. Shelter is out against the road.

Buy a bell for the bike as its a legal requirement to warn the pedestrian and always travel at a safe speed.

micar

Mouseslayer17 wrote: »

Cyclists think they own the road shocker

Wonderful contribution!!!!

mikeymouse

One Mr Happycyclist holding up a busload of people:
http://road.cc/content/news/172410-video-angry-arriva-bus-driver%E2%80%99s-close-pass-cyclist

Idioteque

jimd2 wrote: »

As a driver that has been sometimes frustrated by cyclists in Dublin I have to say that I would still be in agreement with you (based on your account). Fair nenough (maybe) a beep to point out that you were in the bus lane but to start swerving like that in any weather conditions let alone current ones is criminal and very dangerous.

Yeah look I try stay out of the bus lanes for a few reasons one of which being I've been on the same very bus where it's stuck crawling behind a bike but the funny thing is that traffic wasn't that bad and he easily could have overtaken without any stress - think it's just one of his pet peeves and he was having a bad day.

CramCycle

Report to Gardai. Imagine for a second you were not allowed in the bus lane. Does that somehow give him carte blanche to threaten you or partake in vehicular assault. You say he has form for it. Maybe he has been reported before.
Imagine he started tailgating a small car, maybe that car is going to a hospital in an emergency, maybe the driver gets uncomfortable and he rear ends them.
Perspective is a wonderful thing.

TallGlass

I dunno if I should be shocked that most people seem ignorant to the fact it's not illegal and there's no law to state you have to use a cycle lane.

Even so, what right has any motorist got becoming a have a go law enforcer. Just ignore him TBH.

I remember been told the same by taxi driver, who was ironically breaking the rules of the road, firstly on two accounts, he made his own lane for starters driving over hatched markings then decided to use the left hand turn lane as his own lane for merging back into the right, skipping traffic of course.

punisher5112

TallGlass wrote: »

I dunno if I should be shocked that most people seem ignorant to the fact it's not illegal and there's no law to state you have to use a cycle lane.

Even so, what right has any motorist got becoming a have a go law enforcer. Just ignore him TBH.

I remember been told the same by taxi driver, who was ironically breaking the rules of the road, firstly on two accounts, he made his own lane for starters driving over hatched markings then decided to use the left hand turn lane as his own lane for merging back into the right, skipping traffic of course.

It was law and actually still is but Leo opened it up and legislation wasn't changed.

It is up in the air at the moment.

Annie get your Run

jimd2 wrote: »

As a driver that has been sometimes frustrated by cyclists in Dublin I have to say that I would still be in agreement with you (based on your account). Fair nenough (maybe) a beep to point out that you were in the bus lane but to start swerving like that in any weather conditions let alone current ones is criminal and very dangerous.

C'mon, really? the cyclist knows they're in the bus lane :rolleyes: you need to accept the fact that they're there for a good reason (usually) and get on with driving your bus. Just overtake when it's safe to do so, he has a right to be on the road too. You could just as easily be held up by another bus at a stop and have to overtake them too, do you beep at them also?

We really need the government, councils and RSA to start educating drivers and other road users that cyclists are not some sort of enemy target and in fact by being on a bike they are saving you time that would otherwise be spent in heavier traffic if they drove instead.

The J Stands for Jay

Mouseslayer17 wrote: »

Stay out of bus lanes and you'll be grand

You mean the bus and cycle lanes?

The J Stands for Jay

Wesser wrote: »

While you may not have broken the law here, I'm sure you can understand it from the bus drivers point of view. He sees a cycle Lane, he doesn't know that there is glass and wet leaves on the cycle Lane, he gets angry, you are angry, result... 2 angry people wrecking each others day.

I know that I'm Cycling in the bus lane, it because the cycle Lane is covered in glass and wet leave, it is dangerous fir me cycle on tbis short stretch, could you please not curse at me like that, it is legal.for me to cycle here.

Oh right I didn't know that... right... well... ok... that explains it so

Right so...see you tomorrow

Sure, see you.

I see you've never encountered a bus driver.

Unknown Soldier

With all due respects to the mods, why do they allow obviously inflammatory posts to exist?

There will be no educating the people responsible, so is it click bait?

I think they do a great job here, in general btw. just don't know why certain posts are not deleted on sight.

More on topic, as someone who cycles solo a lot, I have over this last few months cycled about 3/4 foot from the side of the road, and it's great, best thing I have done.

I get to let other traffic/Vehicles overtake me, when it's OK.

TallGlass

punisher5112 wrote: »

It was law and actually still is but Leo opened it up and legislation wasn't changed.

It is up in the air at the moment.

Can you point me to this law you speak of? I would like to read it.

punisher5112

TallGlass wrote: »

Can you point me to this law you speak of? I would like to read it.

It use to be if there is a cycle lane it must be used but as I said things are not fully clarified.

TallGlass

punisher5112 wrote: »

It use to be if there is a cycle lane it must be used but as I said things are not fully clarified.

I understand what you are saying I am not doubting you, just I would just like to read over it! Cause to me that is very interesting.

Take for example, this which cycle lane are we to use in that case? The one on the road or the one on the path? There plenty of roads, that have what I like to describe as 'magic' cycle lanes some of which are clearly not fit for purpose.

And what about in this situation, plenty of it around Dublin, sign says bikes welcome in Bus Lane, yet a cycle lane on path, so both are conflicting in that case?

Here

cython

TallGlass wrote: »

I understand what you are saying I am not doubting you, just I would just like to read over it! Cause to me that is very interesting.

Take for example, this which cycle lane are we to use in that case? The one on the road or the one on the path? There plenty of roads, that have what I like to describe as 'magic' cycle lanes some of which are clearly not fit for purpose.

And what about in this situation, plenty of it around Dublin, sign says bikes welcome in Bus Lane, yet a cycle lane on path, so both are conflicting in that case?

Here

Search for and read SI 332/2012 - this contains the latest changes and current wording surrounding use of cycle lanes.

CramCycle

Mouseslayer17 wrote: »

Cyclists think they own the road shocker

MOD VOICE: Read the forum rules before posting again

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

With all due respects to the mods, why do they allow obviously inflammatory posts to exist?

MOD VOICE: The Red Triangle with an exclamation mark should be used to report posts, makes things easier.

irishrover99

Honestly OP. You gave the driver too much respect after he beeped you and berated you. In future raise a middle finger, ala Clyde from every which way but loose and then proceed on your way

Johnnyhpipe

A few years ago someone would have simply called him a ballix and moved on with with their life.

Life's too short for petty nonsense, gripes and complaints.

Annie get your Run

cython wrote: »

Search for and read SI 332/2012 - this contains the latest changes and current wording surrounding use of cycle lanes.

I'm confused, I though the Dept of Transport (or whatever it's called these days) are saying they can't find any record of Varadkar's changes, sure it's right there in black & white no?

07Lapierre

irishrover99 wrote: »

Honestly OP. You gave the driver too much respect after he beeped you and berated you. In future raise a middle finger, ala Clyde from every which way but loose and then proceed on your way

This is why wearing headphones while cycling is great! Everyone assumes because your wearing headphones, you can't hear anything else (which is incorrect). So if a bus driver honks his horn...ignore him! He'll assume you can't hear! Simple!

punisher5112

07Lapierre wrote: »

This is why wearing headphones while cycling is great! Everyone assumes because your wearing headphones, you can't hear anything else (which is incorrect). So if a bus driver honks his horn...ignore him! He'll assume you can't hear! Simple!

Could be warning you your chain is flat....

Could be many other reasons though.

07Lapierre

punisher5112 wrote: »

Could be warning you your chain is flat....

Could be many other reasons though.

Not worried about a flat chain....

Any other reason doesn't interest me.

Alek

OP - report him to DB with as much details as you can, if you felt your life was endangered, report to Gardai as well.

I have received a response from the DB complaints department today for my report done on Monday, saying that the driver was identified (I had a photo of him) and he will face his managers soon. From another source I know they are keen cyclists, so I'm happy with that

Note that I have cycled in front of the bus, leaned my my bike on the bonnet and took a photo of the reg and the driver himself, who was refusing to identify himself like he is supposed to do.

ted1

JeffKenna wrote: »

So you admit to being in the wrong yet still want to complain the driver? Did you apologise to him?

What wrong, there's no requirement to use a cycle path especially when there is ground first with damp leaves, that pose as hazard.

ted1

punisher5112 wrote: »

That cycle lane is quite good and plenty of room to pass shelter. Shelter is out against the road.

Buy a bell for the bike as its a legal requirement to warn the pedestrian and always travel at a safe speed.

I don't use that stretch because in the past year I've got several punctures when it slopes down , it seems to attract debris.

Anyway on that stretch the issue are that cars block the bus lane because they use it illegally

cython

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I'm confused, I though the Dept of Transport (or whatever it's called these days) are saying they can't find any record of Varadkar's changes, sure it's right there in black & white no?

No, they're saying that the SI does not actually mean what was published in the media, etc. at the time, and that the explanatory note on the SI is wrong, and basically trying to retract what was clearly the intent of the changes without actually rewriting the SI by trying to muddle the interpretation instead. Absolute clown carry-on in other words!

magicbastarder

unless i have the wrong link:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/si/332/made/en/print

the explanatory note at the bottom (and it's the status of explanatory notes which is in question):

Part 3 of the Regulations amend, from 1 October 2012, provisions of the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997 to 2011. The main amendments include...: new and amended requirements for use of cycle tracks (only use of contraflow cycle track and of any cycle track in pedestrianised area is mandatory)

so an attempt was made to change the law to state that cyclists do not have to use cycles lanes if provided, unless they are in pedestrianised areas or contraflow. the DOT seem conflicted as to whether they're actually able to draft law.

Danbo!

Had a similar experience a couple of months ago. Templeogue road outbound between terenure and templeogue. There's a bit where the road narrows and you're guided off the main road into the estate by a sign saying "cycle track". I'd generally use it, but at the time the road was covered in wet leaves so for a few weeks had been sticking to the road, like plenty do.

Had a 49 bus tailgate me ridiculously close and then went for an overtake into oncoming traffic. He timed it poorly and moved back in when he was about half way past me. There's no path to fall into, just a kerb, wall and fence. ****ing terrifying. Caught up to him at the lights and knocked on the window. I was surprisingly calm tbh, he whipped the window open and started shouting "you should be on the cycle track, there's no room". I asked if there's no room, why pass me? There was about 200ft left before he could have safely overtaken.

I complained to DB with footage of the whole thing and they were very quick to respond, letting me know the driver was interviewed but no idea of the outcome.

The next day I was getting the 49 to work and who was driving? Yep. At least 4 times on the trip into town he was aggressively jamming on and blaring the horn. Guess the interview did nothing.

TallGlass

cython wrote: »

Search for and read SI 332/2012 - this contains the latest changes and current wording surrounding use of cycle lanes.

Just had a quick skim over that, are we actually paying people to spell out the obvious? EG and basic version! 'Where a sign says no entry, a driver shall not drive up this street in that direction'. WTF.

07Lapierre wrote: »

Not worried about a flat chain....

Any other reason doesn't interest me.

As a cyclist, a motorcyclist and a car driver, I would strongly urge you to stop that practice, it's seriously dangerous. I don't listen to anything on the push bike or motorcycle, hearing is another sense on the road. Your basically driving deaf. I as a car driver and motorcyclist have used my horn towards other motorist to warn them of hazards they have not noticed. For example, I once used my horn to warn someone that they were driving on the wrong side of the road, towards oncoming traffic. Don't take the beeping of a horn to be aggressive sometimes it can mean your in danger and to watch out. Something you may have missed. Or another dramatic example would be a car coming behind you with a catastrophic failure of some sort, causing the car to be uncontrollable.

Alek wrote: »

Note that I have cycled in front of the bus, leaned my my bike on the bonnet and took a photo of the reg and the driver himself, who was refusing to identify himself like he is supposed to do.

Is this true? Why would a bus driver have to identify himself to a member of the public. I'm sure the registration of the bus is good enough. Only asking out of interest as I have never heard of that before.

magicbastarder

TallGlass wrote: »

Just had a quick skim over that, are we actually paying people to spell out the obvious? EG and basic version! 'Where a sign says no entry, a driver shall not drive up this street in that direction'. WTF.

you do understand how laws work? unless the law states the above, *it's not against the law*.

TallGlass

magicbastarder wrote: »

you do understand how laws work? unless the law states the above, *it's not against the law*.

I think you don't see my point at all..

Alek

Is this true? Why would a bus driver have to identify himself to a member of the public.

I don't think it is required by law in any way, but as any employee of a company serving the public, he should not refuse to identify himself when asked... in case of a complaint, it can be taken against him as he is avoiding responsibility.

In my company (technical support) it is against the code of ethics not to give your name (or nick which you are known at work) if the customer asks.