tri coaches for a poor triathlete

hunter9

Any affordable coaches out there ?? Just asking what i should expect to pay. I feel i can do well with a coach but find them very expensive. I started tri last year and did pretty well in my first year i think!! 8 top 10's in 10 races . Now it was mainly sprint distance and 1 hotw race [ top 40 finish].
I feel i have more to give but need to find a coach that won't break the bank tbh i just can't afford much. I do get a coached swim lesson every second week with pb3 peter kern, but thats about it.
Ha some sponsorship would be great lol, but how to get some is the question ????

Ceepo

hunter9 wrote: »

Any affordable coaches out there ?? Just asking what i should expect to pay. I feel i can do well with a coach but find them very expensive. I started tri last year and did pretty well in my first year i think!! 8 top 10's in 10 races . Now it was mainly sprint distance and 1 hotw race [ top 40 finish].
I feel i have more to give but need to find a coach that won't break the bank tbh i just can't afford much. I do get a coached swim lesson every second week with pb3 peter kern, but thats about it.
Ha some sponsorship would be great lol, but how to get some is the question ????

As a suggestion why don't to have a chat with a coach and explain your circumstances. Some of the coach's might be willing to some kind of program for you based on what you can afford to pay.

peter kern

how would anybody want to coach you if you take 5 min rest at each turnaround in the pool ...and are not focused.

its simple there is 2 ways you make yourself a progam and follow it.
(lets face it its not that hard)

or you get a real coach anythng in between wont do you good as it is not better than writting your own program and dosnt solve your issues.
you have the talent but are far to distracted.
a cut and past programe is just a waste for you ( and thats what you get a the prices you are looking for)

Ceepo

^^^^^^^^

Well there's one less to ask lol

Kurt.Godel

peter kern wrote: »

how would anybody want to coach you if you take 5 min rest at each turnaround in the pool ...and are not focused.

Priceless!

peter kern

Kurt.Godel wrote: »

Priceless!

still no doubt that he will win some small races this year .

but what iam trying to say is you have to offer commitment not only in racing, if you want to be sponsored and offer something.resting in the slowest lane donst inspire others much ....

BTH

Someone bookmark this for post of the year!!

He came in looking for sponsorship and instead got ripped apart. Hilarious!!!!!!!

hunter9

peter kern wrote: »

how would anybody want to coach you if you take 5 min rest at each turnaround in the pool ...and are not focused.

Ha i'll take that as a joke for your sake deter ;-). As with commitment and focus ,tell me someone who gets up at 4am and drives 100km to be in a pool at 6am for a swim session and lets face it the coach doesn't always turn up !!!.
Yip i have bad habits like taking a second break at the turns, but i only started swimming last year so habits can be rectified. It's not my place to move lanes as it's daunting swimming with people let alone accomplished tri swimmers.

'he'll win some small races" You're worse than o'connor with the 'small races don't count' ****e. I'm happy to take part at smaller races to build experience and learn the sport. Also to support local clubs like Wicklow etc.

hunter9

peter kern wrote: »

or you get a real coach anythng in between wont do you good as it is not better than writting your own program and dosnt solve your issues.
you have the talent but are far to distracted.
a cut and past programe is just a waste for you ( and thats what you get a the prices you are looking for)

Now thats a much nicer post peter

peter kern

BTH wrote: »

Someone bookmark this for post of the year!!

He came in looking for sponsorship and instead got ripped apart. Hilarious!!!!!!!

its not ripping apart.

maybe not in the nicest way i told him that he has enough talent to become good on his own.
or consider looking for real coaching. but cut and paste coaching wont do him really good.
i gave him -what i think valuable coaching tips on the swiming front and coaching , and its his choice to use it or not.



maybe his timing was funny as just 3 days ago i talked with a guy who showed me emails of sponsorship requests
I came 30th in a race and want a wetsuit and money so i can improve etc

i guess what most people have to think about is that russle white was struggeling for sponsorhip for quite a while , after having won dublin city tri ( one of the 3 most competetive races n the country) on a road bike ... and most people saw that he would become quite good )

hunter9

I know your pretty up front on the truth Peter. This post is to tap into the wealth of knowledge of on here to see if there is a more affordable way of coaching that i don't know about. I have pretty much all the tools to train right, i just lack direction in how to put it all together. I'm actually pretty good at following plans as i had a cycling coach when i road raced. I used power for training on the bike but lacked the knowledge to know the figures to use. It's the same now with tri. I just don't know how to train efficiently and to numbers. I've a power meter on my road and tt bike but would rather a tri coach than to try wing it or just a bike or swim coach on my own and not train efficiently. As you know i've had surgery and won't be back training for 2 weeks. I just thought a tri coach would be my best option!! The sponsorship is just a curiosity question as i wonder how do people get it i.e. i don't see anyway at the tri races trying to promote any brands etc. but get told that some people {not just the pros ] do get some things like runners etc.

joey100

The only sponsorship things I've really seen is when companies look for ambassadors. You get some money off the stuff (haven't seen any offer free stuff) and then are expected to cover your Facebook, twitter, Instagram and what ever else with all their stuff.

In a different sport about 10 years ago I was sponsored. It was worth it cos it was a high cost sport and I pretty much got the gear at cost but I was expected to have their newest gear and promote it. That as well as competing at set events with set goals and then attend demo days meant it was hard enough. That was what i was expected to do and used to make a bit selling on the older gear and cud replace it with the newer stuff and still have a bit left based on the discount I got.

I haven't seen much like that for tri and with social media the way it is now your basically meant to spend the time your not training on social media promoting brands for about 10-20% off their prices. The idea of sponsorship now seems to be based on the number of social media followers you have rather than results.

sconhome

Sponsorship has changed. Simply put you won't get it with the approach that most people take.

Speaking as someone who has both supported & sponsored athletes as well as sourced sponsorship for our team you need to be red hot at what you do or a superb ambassador for a brand.

The best thing for you to do is put together a CV of what you have achieved, what you think you will achieve sportingly and what you thing you can bring to a brand or company. Pick 10 - 20 different brands, your local sports shop, business people in your triathlon club and get networking!

Write a cover letter unique to each application, specific to each application with a CV specific to each application and ask to present. Tell them what you will do for them over the coming 6 months, ask if they are interested in supporting you and then deliver. Quite often you will have to negotiate and deliver before you get anything.

I used to get people asking for sponsorship for their first marathon and they would promise they would be a customer for life. They never had shopped with me before, had never blogged about or mentioned the shop before yet wanted something upfront?? Be the customer first and then ask.

TBH with all the clatter on social media, blogs, logs and even in here you really want to be something special to stand out from the crowd.

The best example of someone who has learned how to market themselves and deliver a return to a series of businesses is Kevin Thornton. Not everyone is a fan or get what he is doing, but he is a prime example of how you need to deliver. Check him out.

sconhome

Well worth reading some of these to get an idea of what business wants / needs and how to go about it.

Follow https://twitter.com/GetSponsorship and dig into the resources here: http://www.thesponsorshipconsultants.com/

Google 'athlete sponsorship' to find more, read as much as you can, see if you can fit the profile and work towards it as a goal.

zico10

sconhome wrote: »

Speaking as someone who has both supported & sponsored athletes as well as sourced sponsorship for our team you need to be red hot at what you do or a superb ambassador for a brand.

Do you mind sharing details of who you sponsored and what you feel you got out of it?

sconhome

zico10 wrote: »

Do you mind sharing details of who you sponsored and what you feel you got out of it?

Honestly would prefer not to say as (a) I'm not involved in the business since last year and (b) mostly underage athletes that get sponsorship as a way of encouraging them forwards than anything marketing / advertising related.

Events that have been sponsored are wide and diverse. Very hard to gauge a ROI on these as it is generally more visibility that anything with a direct return. Even long term relations with events are only working 6-8 months out of 12.

In relation to sponsorship it is usually support through gear, footwear, clothing and race entries where possible. Unless you are international and on the rise the vast majority of athletes will not see cash. If you are this good you likely would have an agent working for you at that level.

Ambassadors (we never really bothered with this route - AK did for a couple of seasons) usually discounted goods in return for being a spokesperson. Again very subjective and hard to measure as most people these days see through any form of shilling so IMO better to be open and upfront as a business and as an athlete.


EDIT; just a note on the sponsorship thing. i remember a few years ago there was issues with a youth who was a sponsored athlete & visible who had problems with a college scholarship in the US due to the perceived 'professional' aspect of being a sponsored athlete. I can't remember the details though I believe it resolved itself after a bit of a headache.

rooneyjm

I'm not sure if the coaching scene is saturated or not but what if a new coach looking for exposure knew you were going to pick up a few podiums (even the small races get a few photos on TI website) in triathlon and duathlon, they might be willing to do you a deal on your coaching costs?

mossym

sponsorship has less to do with results these days and a lot more to do with visibility. rock up to one of the equipment providers with 50 top ten finishes and they have to look you up? not a hope they will sponsor you. rock up with 10k+ followers on social media, , very visible and known but a mid pack finisher, and you've a much better hope.

results don't interest sponsors. visibilty does. if you want to get an inside line look up influence marketing. it's pretty much the basis for why company's sponsor people, you don't sponsor succesful people, you sponsor people who are thought leaders in the area and influence others to buy things. that's where the ROI is.

tunney

Sponsorship is as much to do with personality as results.
Who follows what a successful d1ckhead does? feck all
Who follows what a liked successful person? everyone

zico10

tunney wrote: »

Who follows what a successful d1ckhead does? feck all

Two words for you; Lance Armstrong

catweazle

tunney wrote: »

Sponsorship is as much to do with personality as results.
Who follows what a successful d1ckhead does? feck all
Who follows what a liked successful person? everyone

Dont agree with that at all

Pitch Conor McGregor versus Padraig Harrington and I have a fair idea of who will get more follows

tunney

catweazle wrote: »

Dont agree with that at all

Pitch Conor McGregor versus Padraig Harrington and I have a fair idea of who will get more follows

Is Harrington that much of a d1ckhead?

mloc123

tunney wrote: »

Is Harrington that much of a d1ckhead?

Hah, beat me to it

68 lost souls

tunney wrote: »

Sponsorship is as much to do with personality as results.
Who follows what a successful d1ckhead does? feck all
Who follows what a liked successful person? everyone

Well person A in you're analogy just became president of the USA so....

sconhome

68 lost souls wrote: »

Well person A in you're analogy just became president of the USA so....

But are you actually following them or letting them influence your decisions?

Please say no!

gerfmurphy

68 lost souls wrote:

Well person A in you're analogy just became president of the USA so....

Was thinking exactly the same

mossym

68 lost souls wrote: »

Well person A in you're analogy just became president of the USA so....

tends to happen when you put two person A's in a two horse race. just happens the bigger one won

peter kern

I suggest change your attitude in the pool and than ask coaches for discount ( next time in the pool have a look how hard colm works, you match that and then you ask me for a discount or i try to help you to find somebody)

also not very wise to say you are poor and have a power meter on road bike and tt bike... maybe you have to change priorities.

for me somebody with a car and 2 bikes with powermeter is not poor.

hunter9 wrote: »

I know your pretty up front on the truth Peter. This post is to tap into the wealth of knowledge of on here to see if there is a more affordable way of coaching that i don't know about. I have pretty much all the tools to train right, i just lack direction in how to put it all together. I'm actually pretty good at following plans as i had a cycling coach when i road raced. I used power for training on the bike but lacked the knowledge to know the figures to use. It's the same now with tri. I just don't know how to train efficiently and to numbers. I've a power meter on my road and tt bike but would rather a tri coach than to try wing it or just a bike or swim coach on my own and not train efficiently. As you know i've had surgery and won't be back training for 2 weeks. I just thought a tri coach would be my best option!! The sponsorship is just a curiosity question as i wonder how do people get it i.e. i don't see anyway at the tri races trying to promote any brands etc. but get told that some people {not just the pros ] do get some things like runners etc.

mloc123

peter kern wrote: »

I suggest change your attitude in the pool and than ask coaches for discount ( next time in the pool have a look how hard colm works, you match that and then you ask me for a discount or i try to help you to find somebody)

also not very wise to say you are poor and have a power meter on road bike and tt bike... maybe you have to change priorities.

for me somebody with a car and 2 bikes with powermeter is not poor.

Peter, you are a breath of fresh air in a dying forum

tunney

mloc123 wrote: »

Peter, you are a breath of fresh air in a dying forum

Its not dying, its just having a long break between turns.

peter kern

mossym wrote: »

sponsorship has less to do with results these days and a lot more to do with visibility. rock up to one of the equipment providers with 50 top ten finishes and they have to look you up? not a hope they will sponsor you. rock up with 10k+ followers on social media, , very visible and known but a mid pack finisher, and you've a much better hope.

results don't interest sponsors. visibilty does. if you want to get an inside line look up influence marketing. it's pretty much the basis for why company's sponsor people, you don't sponsor succesful people, you sponsor people who are thought leaders in the area and influence others to buy things. that's where the ROI is.

not disagreeing as most of it is very correct.
but there is still loads of result driven "sponsorship" ( its usally disounts that are cost price ) .
ie going to kona makes you attractive to sponsors. ( as the kona gear count is kind of important , hence forth many companaies that want to increase market share , give huge discounts to atheltes that have qualyfied for kona. ( rudy project ,powertap etc come to mind)

and if you quaify to kona you are certainly somewhat an opinion leader in your club etc )
ie if you have a marathon virgin with 10000 followers that is good but that would not really help you with more advacned athletes. so there still needs to be a mix.

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

ie if you have a marathon virgin with 10000 followers that is good but that would not really help you with more advacned athletes.

Unless you are a total and utter c0ck. Then your club mates will probably shun you.

peter kern

tunney wrote: »

Unless you are a total and utter c0ck. Then your club mates will probably shun you.

brian C brought cervelo to ireland.....

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

brian C brought cervelo to ireland.....

What's his club now?

peter kern

tunney wrote: »

What's his club now?

who stayed longer you or him ;-)

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

who stayed longer you or him ;-)

Who left and who got kicked out?

tunney

Some good examples in some other threads, and in various boards, of why sponsorship isn't always forthcoming to the guys who get results

peter kern

tunney wrote: »

Some good examples in some other threads, and in various boards, of why sponsorship isn't always forthcoming to the guys who get results

of course , at the same time many fast people also understand that sponsorship ,for getting a snickers or a twix isnt worth the time investment ( and at least 50% of the deals are that ) and you are way better of buying 2nd hand or at the right time of the year . and then you have people that are happy to pretend to be sponsored for a snickers , to boast their ego.


anyway to keep the thread a bit on track
askng for sponsorhip without telling what you can do for it, is pointless.
ie i came 30th and i want sponsorship 999 times out of 1000 wont get one a reply.
saying I write a blog thats read by 3000 people have 3000 twitter friends of which are most of them triathletes ( since this is a tri forum ) and i can help to promote your product is much more likley to get you a response.

poor me dosnt work often either ( and if so maybe in december but not in january ;-)

sconhome

peter kern wrote: »

of course , at the same time many fast people also understand that sponsorship ,for getting a snickers or a twix isnt worth the time investment ( and at least 50% of the deals are that ) and you are way better of buying 2nd hand or at the right time of the year . and then you have people that are happy to pretend to be sponsored for a snickers , to boast their ego.


anyway to keep the thread a bit on track
askng for sponsorhip without telling what you can do for it, is pointless.
ie i came 30th and i want sponsorship 999 times out of 1000 wont get one a reply.
saying I write a blog thats read by 3000 people have 3000 twitter friends of which are most of them triathletes ( since this is a tri forum ) and i can help to promote your product is much more likley to get you a response.

Good points ^

OP - I may have read it wrong when you say 'poor triathlete' are you a weak triathlete looking for a good coach to improve you or a non-wealthy triathlete looking for a cheap coach?

peter kern

since was quite harsh in my first post maybe i can claryfy that Sean.

the op is somebody that in his first year of tri did very well, and in a few years (2-3) certainly has a chance to be in the top 5 in kilkee or dublin.( non drafting)

and while i complained about his pool swim attidude , is somebody that actually brings it togheter when the gun goes off .

unlike many triathletes he does not drive a 4 wheel car a mercedes or BMW. but has a car ,and as he said 2 bikes with a powermeter, ( me being somebody who considers a car and a power meter and 2 bikes luxury goods for a triathlete, would consider him not poor.... )
i guess the term poor is relativ and you can also be quite poor if you have loads of money but no time. when i look at him he dosnt seem to starve ;-)

he is certainly not a poor (slow) triathlete ,on the contrary faster than kevin thornton in his first year of tri ,since his name has appeared in that post .
Conisdering he wants somebody to give up free time for him , it rubs me the wrong way , that one would want that , without giving his best in swim training. ( iam aware that iam biased here as i do belive he works hard for his run and bike and in open water traing swims, he did also well ,so one could very well say, I could have focused on the positive aspects in my first post.

Still i think that a "poor" triathlete should not have free "attitude speed" left untapped before asking for a discount ( and its not like i have not said this quite a few times to him (and yes its not all about me ...but thats the first thing a coach is going to tell him and he hasnt taken in that advice ,yet ) .
a good soccer player from a slum has to have the initial drive to get out there and get noticed

at the same time its undenyable that he can be good and that he is a racer.

MojoMaker

Who is this rockstar?

boysinblack

MojoMaker wrote: »

Who is this rockstar?

Looking at the kilkee results I can't see anyone in the top 40 that was in their first year of tri 🀔

Huff n Puff

peter kern wrote: »

since was quite harsh in my first post maybe i can claryfy that Sean.

I would have replied the same way if someone started a thread like this. It is a little insulting to you from this guy. He name checks a triathlon coach in the post while asking for a different coaching option.

With quotes like:

"Any affordable coaches out there ?? "
"find them very expensive"
"need to find a coach that won't break the bank"

the implication is that you are too expensive and not worth the money. Surely he knows you post here regularly and would read it? This thread just seems a little bit inappropriate.

As for the coaching part: I always find it strange that people go in search of a personal coach so early in their triathlon development.

rooneyjm

boysinblack wrote: »

MojoMaker wrote: »

Who is this rockstar?

Looking at the kilkee results I can't see anyone in the top 40 that was in their first year of tri 🀔

He's just outside that

rooneyjm

As for the coaching part: I always find it strange that people go in search of a personal coach so early in their triathlon development.
Why. If your 40 and only going to be in it for a few years then why not make the most of it.

As for the rest. Don't be so sensitive, I doubt Peter was insulted. Last thing we want is people afraid of starting a thread in fear of insulting or being a little inappropriate. We're all big boys

zico10

MojoMaker wrote: »

Who is this rockstar?

It's against boards' rules to identify or speculate as to the identity of a poster. Discussion can still happen without you knowing the answer to this and anybody who gives you the answer will probably be the cue for the thread to be closed.

hunter9

Ok so I think perhaps my initial post was misinterpreted. I wasn't saying that Peter is not a great coach. It's just that I can only see him in a group session every 2 weeks, and unfortunately I simply can't afford (financially) to see him for one on one sessions, as much as I would like to.
I prioritised triathlons over every other aspect of my life in the last year, and saved up for bikes and powermeters, foregoing any holiday or luxuries to do so. Perhaps I would have been better spending that money on coaching rather than powermeters, but hindsight is 20/20.
Regarding the question of sponsorship, I would like to clarify I wasn't asking how *I* would get sponsorship; it was more curiosity about how it all works. I do appreciate the responses and it does make sense that for a brand it is more about exposure than results.
PS. When I finally get over my surgery and back to training, feel free to stand on my head whenever I stop at the end of the pool Peter

tunney

Is just outside the top fourty in kilkee a good result? Devil's advocate.

zico10

tunney wrote: »

Is just outside the top fourty in kilkee a good result? Devil's advocate.

I think you're going for a little more than Devil's advocate, but I'd suggest it's not a bad place to finish after being 10 minutes down after the swim in what was his debut year.
After coming out of the water, were all the cyclists he would have had to pass a help or a hindrance? There could be equally valid reasons for both being true, but I'm glad, unlike the OP, I got to start in the first wave and didn't have to deal with hundreds of cyclists ahead of me on the road.

peter kern

I always find it strange that people go in search of a personal coach so early in their triathlon development.[/QUOTE]

get the basics right early is one point .
also that guy would have had a few fastest bike splits in some races so thats not that early in developemt. ( ie cycle wise he would be very close to when you were in triathlon)
ie there is already a good engine here.

i think coach or no coach is not based where you are in development

its other factors
ie do you want to study the sport or not
most importantly get a second opinion
the reason i do not like is to have somebody to be accountable to ( i persoanlly think that person should not take a coach but thats what many people do )
there is many reasons but i would say its great to learn the basics from a coach or somebody that really knows ,then once you have it and you are not very serious go alone but i think it would be really beneficial if in the first 6 or month or so people had a good coach .to get the basics right

where we certainly agree there is many people that have coaches that should not. as there is way to many people that have v expensive bikes that should not have them

hunter9

peter kern wrote: »

I always find it strange that people go in search of a personal coach so early in their triathlon development.

I found it really beneficial to have a swim coach at the very start. I came from more of a cycling background with some running experience so had a little bit of direction in those. As for the swimming, i had no clue of anything, so the swim sessions where key to keep me going.
IMO if someone asked about getting a coach at the very start i'd definitely say yes, it's a challenging sport and confusing at times to put all the training together so why not