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Vodafone refund

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  • 10-01-2017 12:02am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭


    Hi all

    I'm looking to get your take on this.

    I purchased a phone with Vodafone as a present just before Christmas. I asked if I want to return the phone for a refund is this OK. The agent advised, yes it is once it's on the shrink wrapping you have 30 days to return.

    Fast forward to now, I want to return the phone within 30 days and am being informed that this can not be done.

    What is your advice? It's now a case of my word against theirs. Where would you go next with this? I've been mis informed and don't feel like I should have to accept the phone

    Thanks


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Denny_Crane


    Unfortunately written terms and conditions can not be altered by being told something - what is Vodafone's position on the matter in regard to their T&Cs? Have you tried taking the matter up with their head office?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    This is a change of mind, so you have no consumer rights to get a refund. Any possible refund would be at the discretion of the company.

    So, go back to the person you bought it from, and see if he will give you a refund.
    Failing that, sell the phone on adverts or eBay.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,369 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    sharkey 25 wrote: »
    I purchased a phone with Vodafone as a present just before Christmas. I asked if I want to return the phone for a refund is this OK. The agent advised, yes it is once it's on the shrink wrapping you have 30 days to return.

    You should have asked if that was official policy and could you have the option (for a no quibble refund) noted on the sales receipt. They would have backed down straight away.

    I'm a bit confused though, you bought it as a present (presumably for someone else) but now you're complaining that you 'don't feel like I should have to accept the phone' :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Usually the T&Cs of returns and exchanges are printed on the receipt


  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭sharkey 25


    Unfortunately written terms and conditions can not be altered by being told something - what is Vodafone's position on the matter in regard to their T&Cs? Have you tried taking the matter up with their head office?

    Yeah they are now sticking to the written t&cs. I possibly should have read them but felt checking in the store would be enough.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭sharkey 25


    Paulw wrote: »
    This is a change of mind, so you have no consumer rights to get a refund. Any possible refund would be at the discretion of the company.

    So, go back to the person you bought it from, and see if he will give you a refund.
    Failing that, sell the phone on adverts or eBay.

    Yeah I'm aware of consumer rights in this regard and that's why o asked what the policy was. The answer has been no to a refund.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 68,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Registered letter to HQ stating you were misinformed. Its your word against the staff member, though - and I believe some if not all Vodafone stores are franchised out so HQ may not care much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭sharkey 25


    coylemj wrote: »
    You should have asked if that was official policy and could you have the option (for a no quibble refund) noted on the sales receipt. They would have backed down straight away.

    I'm a bit confused though, you bought it as a present (presumably for someone else) but now you're complaining that you 'don't feel like I should have to accept the phone' :confused:

    I know and hindsight is 20/20 also.

    It was a present, I suppose I men that I shouldn't have to accept that I can't return it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    sharkey 25 wrote: »
    I know and hindsight is 20/20 also.

    It was a present, I suppose I men that I shouldn't have to accept that I can't return it

    Well unfortunately unless it's written down it'll be explained as you misunderstood.
    Just sell it privately, they aren't going to give you a refund and you don't have any rights to one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭sharkey 25


    Well unfortunately unless it's written down it'll be explained as you misunderstood.
    Just sell it privately, they aren't going to give you a refund and you don't have any rights to one.

    Look I know that I don't have any right to a return and it's my word against theirs. However there was absolutely no mis understanding here. I work in the industry so understand fully that these errors can be made.

    I know the frustration of customers when these things happen.

    It might be easier for me to re sell rather than bang my head off a brick wall.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    sharkey 25 wrote: »
    Look I know that I don't have any right to a return and it's my word against theirs. However there was absolutely no mis understanding here. I work in the industry so understand fully that these errors can be made.

    I know the frustration of customers when these things happen.

    It might be easier for me to re sell rather than bang my head off a brick wall.

    If you work in the industry then you know the answer already?


  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭sharkey 25


    If you work in the industry then you know the answer already?

    I understand the stock answer " apologies if you were misinformed however our policy is blah blah"

    There's also a problem element here I suppose in that the info I received lead me to buying the item


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    sharkey 25 wrote: »
    I understand the stock answer " apologies if you were misinformed however our policy is blah blah"

    There's also a problem element here I suppose in that the info I received lead me to buying the item

    I meant if you work in the industry you know that unless you can prove you were told otherwise the company will go by standard t&c's. You wouldn't be the first or last person to claim a salesperson told them something different and while its true in your case they won't just take the customers word for it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Denny_Crane


    OP you'll always get stock answers of the law is, and customer's lie. I get the impression there are more than a few retailers in this forum. As a former retailer myself, customers lie and the law is there is no provision for change of mind. However people seem to forget simple contract rules in relation to T&Cs but I digress.

    Mistakes can and do happen, most customer services/Head offices know this. It's worth chancing your arm. I always suggest writing a letter, they're generally taken more seriously. My initial point wasn't to bash you over the head, it's a common misconception that any other evidence is required, or indeed adduced in many situations, than 'he said - she said'. The problem you have here is spoken word of salesperson cannot trump written T&Cs so it's entirely good will based.

    I can see how this has happened looking at Voda's T&Cs given they offer 30 days network satisfaction etc. My advice is as above, and also engage with social media. Link this, link facebook and if you use twitter tweet. Put it across as very understanding that mistakes happen and that you'll be as quick to post about how amazeballs they are as soon as the refund is forthcoming. May or may not work of course!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭Xterminator


    nothing ventured nothing gained.

    you understand you are looking for goodwill from VF, so go in nicely through social media or registered letter, and see where it gets you.

    you eill be no worse off if they say no, and if they come back with an offer, happy days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭ssmith6287


    Retailer I used to work for didn't do gift receipts. But when I was selling something there was a place for notes where I would write everything what the customer asked for, what I recommended, what the customer took, and if I said they could change their mind. this was in full view on the receipt. im sure most retailers could do this if you ask them going forward


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Melendez


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Denny_Crane


    Melendez wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Written contracts can't, generally, be altered by parol. Of course there are loads of exceptions and I'd be happy to be enlightened how one of them applies here, perhaps in legal discussions though. The second issue is that does the salesperson have the required authority to override the company's T&Cs? Perhaps I'm missing something in terms of mistake/misrep - again I welcome the correction if so. The final point though is incorrect, if the OP has a basis in one of the above, they've very little problem in the salesperson having to remember. Simply use the Small Claims procedure and let the registrar decide who they believe.

    If I'm right, and I'm willing to be shown where I'm wrong even if the salesperson is happy to shout from the rooftops that they told the OP it was 30 days Vodafone can still say:

    'Here are our written T&Cs, these for the basis of your contract.'

    It would then be entirely dependant on their goodwill to offer the OP a refund.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Melendez


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Denny_Crane


    Melendez wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I don't believe the contract was misrepresented, however that's an arguable point. In regards to agency they're acting outside of their authority which could be problematic, but I'm not sure how that can be reconciled with an innocent misrepresentation so likely a read herring on my part.

    However a non-admission is not fatal to the OP pursuing it. The burden of proof can be discharged by the OP offering evidence that the statement was made. If the assistant says I don't remember then it's an easy win for the OP, if they out and out deny it, it's still for the registrar to decide who they believe.

    Would an order of recession be needed, can this be sought in the DC? Would this be able to be sorted out informally if it got to the stage that the registrar believes the OP?

    Thanks for the steers thus far, did some research around your suggestions but no further forward. As this is getting a bit technical, opened a new thread here. Any further input is most welcomed! OP I'm afraid the linked discussion will be of no practical benefit to you as these discussions have to be had in the abstract.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Melendez


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,369 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    sharkey 25 wrote: »
    Look I know that I don't have any right to a return and it's my word against theirs. However there was absolutely no mis understanding here. I work in the industry so understand fully that these errors can be made.

    Are you being kind to that sales assistant because you both work in the same 'industry', or are you being incredibly naive? The sales assistant told you a lie in order to complete the sale, it's happened to me in a mobile shop. They are commission-driven and like a lot of sales people, they tell porkies.

    It wasn't a yes or no situation, you asked if you could get a refund and the sales assistant said you could if it was still in the shrinkwrap and it was within 30 days of the purchase - completely made up bollocks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    Melendez wrote: »
    If the sales assistant told you that you are entitled to bring it back within thirty days, then you are. Written T&Cs don't trump this. You are not relying on Vodafone's goodwill. You are, however, relying on the sales assistant remembering that he told you that you could bring it back within thirty days, maybe it is still his belief or maybe he remembers that being his understanding from before. Don't assume the sales assistant is certain to lie about this.

    If you can prove the sales assistant said this then yes fair enough. However hundreds of people claim sales assistants say x,y and z every day to get different things. In some cases they misunderstand and in others it's a plain lie.
    No company can believe every customer is telling the truth when a salesperson is saying they didn't say that and as op had already been told no clearly it's been dealt with at store level.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Denny_Crane


    As you'll see in the other thread I'm having difficulty with this being misrep due to it being a standard form. You may be right, hopefully some others will chime in on the other thread.

    However I am happy to state that the burden of proof can be discharged as I've described. I can find no indication that the burden of proof is any different from the standard civil burden of proof. There is no reason why, when confronted with two sworn statements a finder of fact can't decide who they believe. The sworn statement is the evidence being presented.

    The problem here is there is a dispute, one would hope Vodafone would standover what is said but it doesn't look like they're going to, we'll have to wait for an update from the OP there I imagine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Melendez


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    Melendez wrote: »
    I agree. I am just making the point that if the facts are as stated he is entitled to a refund, regardless of whether he can convince anybody relevant that this is the case. Do we know that the sales person in question has denied making the incorrect statement? If not, the opening poster should ask him.

    That's true, I presumed this was the case as the store had refused it but I would expect if a store assistant admitted to saying this the store would refund. I certainly would do so and I was a retail manager for a long time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Melendez


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Denny_Crane


    As I say that's just a standard civil burden of proof. Practically speaking additional evidence is ideal. Legally speaking there is absolutely no issue with a he said, she said situation and the arbiter making a decision on that basis.

    Frankly it's great news for the OP if you're right about the misrep side of things as your position allows them to hang their hat on a particular issue for the small claims procedure. Most companies fold at that stage regardless of who is in the right. I agree with your previous comment though, OP needs to ask first, this could be a lot of effort for nothing if simply asking solves it!

    PS Thanks for the link to that report.

    Edit: Don't go digging too far as the report, the KI pre manual and two text books I have sitting here are almost bloody word for word on this. I'll see if I can find something on viva voce evidence that's readable as you've been so kind in getting me reading today! To OP and Mods I know I'm waaaay OT now sorry. Will leave it there and go to PM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    @Denny Crane - appreciate the effort at humour, but let's leave that in AH or elsewhere.

    dudara


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Denny_Crane


    Sorry won't happen again.

    OP it seems Melendez is right in terms of misrep so you do have an option open there. Most larger businesses will have a policy on simply refunding once they receive a solicitor's letter or small claims paperwork. I'm not trying to guide you here merely inform you. Practically speaking you're probably better off selling it if you're happy doing that as you indicated above. It'll be €25 and weeks (if not months) of waiting around otherwise, with no guarantee it'll go your way if people decide to lie.

    This is of course if the salesperson didn't admit their mistake and you haven't already go it sorted.


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