Cyclists Marathon Plan: ADVICE WELCOME!!!

dave_o_brien

Hello all, new to this forum.

So over the course of Christmas, my brother, who ran the marathon in 2014, challenged me to do it with him this year.

My background: I am 30, and have been racing bikes (track and road; for the cyclists I'm an A3 road rider and A level track rider) for the past decade or so, and have a reasonably good level of base fitness. This includes numerous running events over the past few years, including 5 mile events, 10km events, triathlons, adventure races, etc. I may not be a quick runner (10km in circa 50 minutes is typical for me over the past few years) but I manage ok. I'm have no aspirations to being able to run a 3hr marathon, but would like to keep it within 4.5hrs.

Obviously, a marathon is a huge commitment, so I'm going to keep this as both a log and use it as a way of bouncing training ideas off people. In other words, feel free to offer your advice!

For this year, I have committed to doing the marathon and to doing a few sportives on the bike (200km one day cycles, typically 6-7hr events) and league racing on the track on Wednesdays, starting in April.

So, for the first section of the year, my plan is as follows:

Monday: 7 a side football
Tuesday: Rest, prepare food for the week, etc.
Wednesday: 5km run, Moderate-High Intensity, 5 200m intervals at high intensity
Thursday: Cycling turbo session/Rock Climbing
Friday: Not going to lie, probably a few pints.
Saturday: Easy cycle, 2-3hrs
Sunday: Long run, Low intensity.

The long run this weekend was 8.5km, in 44 odd mins. I feel fine today and am looking forward to the football this evening without much in the way of stiffness or discomfort. I plan on increasing the distance by approx 10% every week in 5 week blocks with an "easy" week every 6th week. This easy week will include a controlled distance with a timed effort: maybe something like a 5 mile race pace effort to gauge progress.

I realise that as the year wears on and the event itself approaches, the above will have to change. As mentioned, from April, Wednesday's will be track racing (bicycle), so from then it is likely the week will look more like:

Monday: Football
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Track
Thursday: 5km run, Moderate-High Intensity, 5 200m intervals at high intensity
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Cycle/10km run on alternate weekends
Sunday: Long run, Low intensity.

I realise the purists here will likely look at my plan as being too disparate to be in the best condition possible. I know this, but am unwilling to sacrifice too many of my other hobbies (cycling, football, rock climbing); I just want to be able to finish it!

Thoughts welcome. I'll try add to this weekly with a list of what I've done, how I feel, observations, etc.

Thanks

Maximus Alexander

Good luck with it, your goal is very achievable. One thing I'd say though is at some point as the marathon approaches, the football may well have to get the boot. The injury risk will be very high, especially doing it on tired legs the day after your long run.

dave_o_brien

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Good luck with it, your goal is very achievable. One thing I'd say though is at some point as the marathon approaches, the football may well have to get the boot. The injury risk will be very high, especially doing it on tired legs the day after your long run.

Agreed. I think for the couple of months before hand, I'll swap in a cycling/rock climbing session in to the Monday slot as an active recovery type thing.

dave_o_brien

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

the football may well have to get the boot

P.S. Excellent pun.

ultrapercy

dave_o_brien wrote: »

Hello all, new to this forum.

So over the course of Christmas, my brother, who ran the marathon in 2014, challenged me to do it with him this year.

My background: I am 30, and have been racing bikes (track and road; for the cyclists I'm an A3 road rider and A level track rider) for the past decade or so, and have a reasonably good level of base fitness. This includes numerous running events over the past few years, including 5 mile events, 10km events, triathlons, adventure races, etc. I may not be a quick runner (10km in circa 50 minutes is typical for me over the past few years) but I manage ok. I'm have no aspirations to being able to run a 3hr marathon, but would like to keep it within 4.5hrs.

Obviously, a marathon is a huge commitment, so I'm going to keep this as both a log and use it as a way of bouncing training ideas off people. In other words, feel free to offer your advice!

For this year, I have committed to doing the marathon and to doing a few sportives on the bike (200km one day cycles, typically 6-7hr events) and league racing on the track on Wednesdays, starting in April.

So, for the first section of the year, my plan is as follows:

Monday: 7 a side football
Tuesday: Rest, prepare food for the week, etc.
Wednesday: 5km run, Moderate-High Intensity, 5 200m intervals at high intensity
Thursday: Cycling turbo session/Rock Climbing
Friday: Not going to lie, probably a few pints.
Saturday: Easy cycle, 2-3hrs
Sunday: Long run, Low intensity.

The long run this weekend was 8.5km, in 44 odd mins. I feel fine today and am looking forward to the football this evening without much in the way of stiffness or discomfort. I plan on increasing the distance by approx 10% every week in 5 week blocks with an "easy" week every 6th week. This easy week will include a controlled distance with a timed effort: maybe something like a 5 mile race pace effort to gauge progress.

I realise that as the year wears on and the event itself approaches, the above will have to change. As mentioned, from April, Wednesday's will be track racing (bicycle), so from then it is likely the week will look more like:

Monday: Football
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Track
Thursday: 5km run, Moderate-High Intensity, 5 200m intervals at high intensity
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Cycle/10km run on alternate weekends
Sunday: Long run, Low intensity.

I realise the purists here will likely look at my plan as being too disparate to be in the best condition possible. I know this, but am unwilling to sacrifice too many of my other hobbies (cycling, football, rock climbing); I just want to be able to finish it!

Thoughts welcome. I'll try add to this weekly with a list of what I've done, how I feel, observations, etc.

Thanks

You will almost definitely finish, you have the basic engine but if you want it to be a pleasant experience (relatievely) you need to train properly for it. What you have outlined is inadequate to condition you for 26 miles and will leave you walking most of the 2nd half finishing in a heap wondering why anyone would put themselves through torture like that. If you want to run a marathon committ to it embrace it and give it the respect it will demand. Training for the marathon is the challange the race itself is relatively the easy part, it's very rewarding if you do it right and not something you will regret. You will regret a half hearted "tick a box" approach I think. Not a lecture just my 2 cents and good luck to you whatever approach you choose.

dave_o_brien

ultrapercy wrote: »

You will almost definitely finish, you have the basic engine but if you want it to be a pleasant experience (relatievely) you need to train properly for it. What you have outlined is inadequate to condition you for 26 miles and will leave you walking most of the 2nd half finishing in a heap wondering why anyone would put themselves through torture like that. If you want to run a marathon committ to it embrace it and give it the respect it will demand. Training for the marathon is the challange the race itself is relatively the easy part, it's very rewarding if you do it right and not something you will regret. You will regret a half hearted "tick a box" approach I think. Not a lecture just my 2 cents and good luck to you whatever approach you choose.

Hmm, interesting. What if I made a further refinement to my schedule:

January-March

Monday: 7 a side football
Tuesday: Rest, prepare food for the week, etc.
Wednesday: 5km run, Moderate-High Intensity, 5 200m intervals at high intensity
Thursday: Cycling turbo session/Rock Climbing
Friday: Not going to lie, probably a few pints.
Saturday: Easy cycle, 2-3hrs
Sunday: Long run, Low intensity.

April-June

Monday: Football
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Track
Thursday: 5km run, Moderate-High Intensity, 5 200m intervals at high intensity
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Cycle/10km run on alternate weekends
Sunday: Long run, Low intensity.

July-October

Monday: 8km run, Moderate-High Intensity, 5 200m intervals at high intensity
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: 10km run, threshold/tempo
Thursday: 5km run easy/ 2 hr bike ride easy
Friday: Rest
Saturday: Long run, Low Intensity
Sunday: 5km run easy/ 2 hr bike ride easy

Distances shown are indicative really, but the general idea being that for the few months before October, I'd be focusing more on building specifically for the run, mixing tempo and pace work in with basic mileage?

At least, that's the kind of logic that has worked in the past for cycling events!

Gavlor

I'm not so sure about it being totally inadequate. If you scrap the football and replace it with a recovery run then you're committing to run 4 days a week with high end cycling and good core work added to that. That's more than enough for someone with your level of fitness to run the marathon distance.

Providing you get the mileage right I think you'll be fairly comfortable at a 4.30ish marathon.

The Muppet

The best of luck with the plans . You could consider joining this years novice marathon thread here when it's set up . It usually starts in June and at that stage its suggested your are running 20 miles a week in preparation.

Chartsengrafs

An A3 cyclist should have a good endurance base so four runs a week will get you around if that's all you want to do. You'll need to get used to spending some time on your feet, the long run will be critical.

Annie get your Run

Best of luck with the training dave, I'll be very interested to see how you manage the cycling and the running, I'm trying to do something similar, albeit the opposite way round and nowhere near your level .

dave_o_brien

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Best of luck with the training dave, I'll be very interested to see how you manage the cycling and the running, I'm trying to do something similar, albeit the opposite way round and nowhere near your level .

Would love to hear how you're getting on. If you have any bike/cycling queries, feel free to ask!

Annie get your Run

dave_o_brien wrote: »

Would love to hear how you're getting on. If you have any bike/cycling queries, feel free to ask!

How do you fix a puncture

I'm just commuting on the bike, 24 miles a day 3 days a week (peanuts to someone with your background I know) but I've reduced the amount of running I was doing and trying to build it back up again. The bike has definitely made my legs stronger for running so you'll have a big advantage in that regard. I'd better say no more, we're not really allowed to talk about bikes in here :P:P

dave_o_brien

Annie get your Run wrote: »

How do you fix a puncture

I'm just commuting on the bike, 24 miles a day 3 days a week (peanuts to someone with your background I know) but I've reduced the amount of running I was doing and trying to build it back up again. The bike has definitely made my legs stronger for running so you'll have a big advantage in that regard. I'd better say no more, we're not really allowed to talk about bikes in here :P:P

Haha! Well, I won't ramble very long, but the principles are much the same: start with 3 days a week. Consider cycling in one day, home the next. Gradually build, looking for weekly increases in distance/intensity. Short, fast spins to build leg speed; long slow ones to build base. Listen to your body and rest when needed. Easy gear at high cadence beats grinding in a big gear. It is comfortably the nicest way to travel any significant distances, and I've cycled from here to the south of France, Vienna, etc., and you really get to know a place on a pair of wheels.

Bear in mind that cycling is almost zero impact. I'm finding that my joints and tendons are my limiting factor on long runs rather than my engine.

Ferris B

Hi Dave

You mind find the FIRST marathon program

http://www.wu.ece.ufl.edu/marathon%20training-first%20marathon.pdf

might be compatible with your week. Sorry can't do Link thing properly. It basically suggests has 3 runs a week ( speedwork tempo and Long Runs). It encourages cross training on other days which would allow for cycling and climbing. It also helps with picking a marathon time suited to your ability.

Myself and FBOT of this parish used it for our first DCM in 2011 and off fairly basic fitness managed 3:45 (i think). I recall not doing too much of the cross training so you already have an advantage.

It's much better than a 'get you to the finish' program and you will enjoy the run too. If you are looking for a good finish time though, you'll need to up the mileage.

Best of luck with the training.

dave_o_brien

Ferris B wrote: »

Hi Dave

You mind find the FIRST marathon program

http://www.wu.ece.ufl.edu/marathon%20training-first%20marathon.pdf

might be compatible with your week. Sorry can't do Link thing properly. It basically suggests has 3 runs a week ( speedwork tempo and Long Runs). It encourages cross training on other days which would allow for cycling and climbing. It also helps with picking a marathon time suited to your ability.

Myself and FBOT of this parish used it for our first DCM in 2011 and off fairly basic fitness managed 3:45 (i think). I recall not doing too much of the cross training so you already have an advantage.

It's much better than a 'get you to the finish' program and you will enjoy the run too. If you are looking for a good finish time though, you'll need to up the mileage.

Best of luck with the training.

That looks like a good plan, thanks!

dave_o_brien

Week 1 Roundup:

Mon: Football - 60 minutes 7 a side.
Tuesday: Some kettle bells and stretching, nothing major.
Wednesday: 7.5km run.
Thursday: 4km run home from work.
Friday: Rest.
Saturday: 1hr kettle bells, some yoga and stretching too.
Sunday: 9km run, easy and slow, 47mins.

Really felt heavy legged on Thursday. Also felt rough this morning prior to the run, but they loosened out after 3km and I ended up running a marginally negative split. Just finished stretching and have a sandwich lined up and feel good about myself! Reckon I'll keep this routine forms few weeks as the legs get used to running as opposed to pedalling.

dave_o_brien

Week 2 Roundup

Monday: 60mins football
Tuesday: Foam roller
Wednesday: 7.5km run
Thursday: 4.5km run, in thirds with an easy start and end and at threshold hr for middle third.
Friday: Beers. Can't lie.
Saturday: 1.5hrs on the turbo on the bike
Sunday: 10km easy run, 54mins

Noticed a slight pain in my left inner calf/shin junction. Nothing too bad, but feels less laterally stable. Didn't cause discomfort running, but wouldn't want to change direction suddenly. Football tomorrow is off, so I'll do some kettle bells and foam rolling instead and keep an eye on any pain.

Generally, all else is fine. Noticing that on the Sunday runs, I need a minimum of ten minutes running before I get into my rhythm. May be weekend beers, or sleepiness or whatever, but I get over it anyway!

dave_o_brien

Week 3 Roundup

Monday: 1hr kettlebells and stretching
Tuesday: 5km fast
Wednesday: rest
Thursday: 9km tempo; 43mins
Friday: some enthusiastic dancing? Does it count?!
Saturday: 10km easy, 52mins
Sunday: 1hr hike

I went to Kerry to visit a friend who is a physio. She had a look at my feet, knees and hips and gave me some strengthening exercises to help my arches and hip alignment, which was great. Will keep an eye on how they affect my legs while running.

This weeks runs have felt the most comfortable since I started. Recovering better, with little stiffness after runs. I am getting some shin tightness and calf tightness while running, so will see if the exercises she's advised help with that too.

This week is a rest week. It'll be football, climbing and 2 runs; one of about 6km as fast as manageable and one of about 13km really easy.

dave_o_brien

Week 4 roundup

First designated "rest" week

Monday: Football, 1 hr
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Kettlebells
Thursday: 5km fast
Friday: Rest
Saturday: 13km easy
Sunday: Rest

Getting some shin pains in my right leg, and shin was weakening towards the end of the long slow run. I believe it's down to over pronation, and I hope the exercises my physio friend gave me will help. She's also advising orthotics, which are due this week.

Plan for this week is football, 2 mid-week runs and a 10km at the weekend, plus maybe a bike ride. Hopefully by the next rest week (week 8) I'll manage a 15km slow run. In the meantime it'll be about strengthening my hips and hopefully addressing the shin pain.

As a recap of the first month of focussing on running, I feel like I'm getting used to frequent runs, and am really happy I've given myself the time to work towards the distance side of things. Bearing in mind that before this my running consisted of about 8km a week with the odd 10km event, fairly happy with things.

dave_o_brien

First set-back: since football on Monday I have had serious pain in my left hip. I was scheduled for a 7km run tonight, but can't see myself doing that. I will replace it with 1.5hrs on the bike, and see how I feel tomorrow. Very frustrating, but such is life!

EDIT: Just to clarify the hip pain - I got caught flat footed with a player behind me and spun quickly to try to make up the ground and felt a twinge. Stretched and played on, but when I woke up on Tuesday it felt very weak. Walking to and from work is ok, but hip feels a bit trapped.

dave_o_brien

So the hip is loosening out, but it's still not right. I went out on the bike last night and it felt ok... A bit of a twinge if I was in a big gear starting off, or at low cadence on a climb. Had to keep the gear easy and cadence high-ish to remain comfortable.

Feels better today, so I'll see how I feel this evening and might try a 5km easy run. If I feel any pain, I'll walk home and hop on the turbo (bike trainer).

In other news, I got orthotics from my physio to help with overpronation which should help with knee and hip pain. Just in time!

dave_o_brien

HIP WATCH:

So I walked home from work yesterday without any discomfort. Decided to do some stretching and yoga and donned my running gear with a view to seeing how I went. Post stretch, I felt pretty good; not 100%, but certainly ok. I decided I'd head out on my usual 5km lap, would run at my 10km pace and walk if I felt a twinge. An extra layer or two were thrown on anticipating a mix of running and walking! My run starts with a gentle rise followed by a descent; on the descent at one point I didn't spot a dished driveway and landed heavy on my left leg... I expected a shot of pain up my leg, but nothing more than a "watch it, fooooool!" warning was issued from the hip. Was very aware of my feet throughout the run; I tried consciously to run light, landing slightly more mid-foot and transferring forefoot sooner. The last 3.5km were flat, and uneventful, which is a good thing! I got home, stretched, picked up the kettlebell and did some upperbody stuff, some kettlebell swings and some one legged squats. All felt suspiciously ok... I went to bed expecting to wake up this morning feeling arthritic.

No such consequence! Hip feels better again today - I stress, not 100% still, but I'd be confident of getting a decent 9km run in over the weekend. That'll leave me missing one run this week, but having replaced it with a bike ride, and one short run being supplemented with stretching, yoga and kettlebells. If that's a bad week, I'll take it!

dave_o_brien

Week 5 roundup:

Monday: Football
Tuesday: Severe hip pain...
Wednesday: Hip somewhat better; 1.5hr bike ride
Thursday: Hip improved significantly; 5km run
Friday: Rest
Saturday: 1 hr bike ride
Sunday: Hip somewhat sore, me very tired and Ikea visit. With my soul dutifully destroyed, I went home and made some flatpack furniture in lieu of running.

Hip feels better again today, so I'll chance football. If I have any pain tomorrow, I will take myself to my physio.

dave_o_brien

Midweek update: I played football yesterday and felt fine. Today, however, I did not. More hip pain. I am wondering if it's more DOMS than actual pain, but hard to tell... I've talked to a friend who is a physio with a background in running, and she's going to provide coaching and physiotherapy focussed on running starting next week for the run up to the marathon. Plan is to stretch out tonight and run tomorrow, 5km tempo. Fruatrated to be dealing with some kind of an injury this early on...

dave_o_brien

Week 6 roundup:

Monday: Football
Tuesday: rest
Wednesday 4.5km run home from work
Thursday: 6.5km run
Friday: rest
Saturday: built a wardrobe. 3hr sweat fest.
Sunday: 8.5km run

On the whole, the hip feels much improved. Also noticed yesterday on the 8.5km run that I'm landing lighter on my feet. This may have something to do with blisters on my soles from the orthotics inserts... But in general I've had no pain in my knees or shins since using the orthotics, pain in the hips is reduced greatly, while the pay off is blisters. I think it's worth it...

Tomorrow I start with the physio/coaching scenario. Looking forward to it.

dave_o_brien

Week 7 roundup:

Monday: Football
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: 12km slow and steady, took a little under an hour and honestly felt great.
Thursday: 5km tempo
Friday: Off to Edinburgh, so beer and chicken wings in abundance.
Saturday: Parkrun in Edinburgh - manky rain and wind, but made it down in time. Set off at a decent pace looking to stretch my legs without overdoing it. After turning back, it was 2km into a heavy wind, and I could feel the beers from the previous evening tying my legs up a bit. Backed off the pace until 1km to go, and kicked on again. Managed 24.42, which I was happy with under the circumstances.
Sunday: Delayed flights. Some walking around with a bag, but that was it. Very tired after the previous night...

Generally I feel like I'm going ok. This is a "rest" week, so football tonight, physio Wednesday, easy short run Thursday and long run over the weekend. Sadly my physio/coach last week was ill, so this Wednesday will be our first session and she might have entirely different ideas about what to do from here on in!

dave_o_brien

Week 8 roundup:

Bear in mind that this week, the goal was a 15km slow run at the weekend.

Monday: Football
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Session 1 with physio/coach. Addressed tight Psoas muscle, which was an unusual feeling... She has given me a new programme focused on shorter but more frequent runs for the foreseeable future.
Thursday: 6km with 3km at threshold.
Friday: Rest
Saturday: 11km in around 54mins
Sunday: Rest

The physio/coach has given me a new programme focused on shorter but more frequent runs for the foreseeable future. Some minor imbalances were identified, and we started by addressing some tightness in the Psoas muscle, which was an unusual feeling... Seems her attitude is to focus less on building big blocks of distance as one off's in a week immediately, and focus more on getting running more often and letting the distances develop. I said my plan was to do a 15km run at the weekend, and she strongly advised against it, warning that that's how you get injured. I'll just behave neck down from now on, let her do the thinking!

dave_o_brien

Week 9 roundup:

Monday; football
Tuesday; 6.5km run
Wednesday; work out run. On a GAA pitch so hard to know distance... 10 min warm up, 2 min easy, 2 min medium, 2 min hard, 1 min easy, 1 min medium, 1 min hard, 10 min cool down.
Thursday; 4.5km easy home from work. Legs felt quite laboured, it was slow.
Friday; nothing
Saturday; nothing
Sunday; 8.5km in 42 minutes and a handful of seconds. Felt heavy legged to begin with but was grand after about 2.5km.

That's week 1 of structured training with my coach/physio. Week 2 of her programme looks hard...

dave_o_brien

Week 10 roundup:

Monday: football
Tuesday: 8km run with 4 x strides of 30 seconds every 5 mins after a 10 min warm up and a 10 min cool down at the end
Wednesday: Workout - 10 min warm up, 2 min easy, 2 min medium, 2 min hard, 1 min easy, 1 min medium, 1 min hard, 1 min easy, 1 min medium, 1 min hard, 10 min cool down.
Thursday: 4km easy run
Friday: Hill workout in Bushy Park. Ouch. 10 min warm-up, 4 x strides (I did one length of a GAA pitch and recovered for the rest of the lap) then 5 x 300m uphill. The hill in Bishy Park starts steady, flattens out and then ramps up at the end badly. The goal was to do all 5 at a strong pace then recover on the way back down, then straight back in to them. 10 min cool down.
Saturday: nothing
Sunday: 5km easy

Sunday was rough. Bit of pain in my left shin and my legs felt seriously heavy from the get go. I felt clumsy, like I was landing too heavy with my feet out in front of me and I just couldn't tidy it up. Was a bit hungover though, so maybe it's no surprise... Overall, 6 days a week felt like a lot, even if no single session was so hard I struggled. It was more a case of it being difficult to fit everything in, especially the mid-week ones. I'd rather longer but fewer sessions, but I appreciate the logic in what she has me doing. Anyway, I can say I've lost 2kg and am generally running faster and more comfortably than ever. I'm even starting to enjoy it...

dave_o_brien

Week 11 roundup:

Monday: football
Tuesday: 20 min easy run followed by physio
Wednesday: 41 min run, around 8.5km
Thursday: Nothing
Friday: 32min run with 4 x strides, about 6.8km
Saturday: 30 min run, coffee stop, 5 min run, (2 min easy, 2 min medium, 2 min hard) x 2, 7 min cool down
Sunday: Rest

Had a bit of stiffness at the start of the week. I think it may have been actually a drawn out hangover... Hard to tell! Anyway, felt great towards the end of the week, and feel like I'm running stronger and more comfortably at the end of my runs. Definitely feel like I'm ending sessions thinking that I could keep going. The Saturday workout was tough, but after a minute of recovery, I felt I could probably manage a few km at an easy pace without becoming hypoglycemic.

The Black Oil

Football - are you winning? :cool: