Suburb after suburb after suburb...

Widdershins

Electric Sheep wrote: »

It's already cold and dreary, and the sun is obscured by the clouds most of the time.

Having it obscured by buildings when it's actually shining isn't going to improve things

jobbridge4life

Widdershins wrote: »

Having it obscured by buildings when it's actually shining isn't going to improve things

... can we take a step back here. No is suggesting and there isn't even the remotest danger at the moment of constructing such a monstrous amount of monolithic towers so as to block out the sun in a Burns-esque fashion. People want higher density, better quality accommodation in the city. We can achieve that without endangering sunlight, it is farcical to suggest otherwise. Look at Amsterdam.

pilly

seamus wrote: »

This is the thing. Most people don't do this.

Many people are attached to this sentimental idea of having a garden, but then don't use it very much. Run the mower over it 4 times in the summer, put a shabby paving stone path leading to the shed and bring some beach chairs out into the sun twice a year.

A half-decent balcony will do the same thing and save you on maintenance.

An apartment living culture has a bit of a "build it..." strategy necessary. We don't have a lot of good quality apartments for long-term living. Good big ones are out on the edge of nowhere and you have to drive everywhere, or it's a pokey 1/2-bed in the city centre that's great for a young person but no good for a family.

If we built more large apartments (3-bed+) in the city centre, people would come to realise that having a garden isn't all its cracked up to be, and an apartment culture would slowly build.

But without high-rise, building apartments is about cramming in as many as you can within the tiny box the city council will let you build.

This is the problem with a huge amount of apartments in Ireland, they have very small if not non-existent balconies. What I find is there's barely room to stand on some of them, let alone sit and just enjoy some fresh air and sunshine (when we get it).

KingBrian2

CaptainR wrote: »

The boxing and hockey arena?

The giant park in the middle of the city. A forest zone, whatever the name of the place is.

Electric Sheep

KingBrian2 wrote: »

CaptainR wrote: »

The boxing and hockey arena?

The giant park in the middle of the city. A forest zone, whatever the name of the place is.

We all knew you meant Central Park :-)

Chuchote

pilly wrote: »

This is the problem with a huge amount of apartments in Ireland, they have very small if not non-existent balconies. What I find is there's barely room to stand on some of them, let alone sit and just enjoy some fresh air and sunshine (when we get it).

There's also the question of the gales whistling by the balconies. My balcony-boasting friends don't tend to sit out and have coffee on them.

Royale with Cheese

Early 30s, already own an apartment in the suburbs and will be looking to move in a few years. I've no family to worry about and I would still be reluctant to buy another apartment. Most of the newer ones are built like total shít and it's very hard to find out exactly how bad one is without living in it long term. I was here 6 months thinking it was perfect until I realised there'd been nobody living upstairs the entire time. Really I found the complete lack of soundproofing astonishing. I even knew somebody who lived here for a year before I bought and he assured me he never heard his neighbours. It's pot luck and while at the moment it's merely a minor inconvenience, if the wrong people moved in it would be a nightmare. My living room (very thin) wall is shared with my neighbours master bedroom for some reason. I do my best not to be an asshole, but why would they build two apartments next to each other in that configuration?

That plus management fees. I would want my mortgage paid off long before I retire and the next place I buy I need to stay in long term. For some of the more expensive apartments the fees are currently 3k+, imagine what they'll be in 20 years time? Fúck that.

That leaves me looking at a 3 bed semi d I don't need or even particularly want. The lack of independent construction regulation has led to a total fúcking mess. We've seen the ber come in recently as insulation on older buildings was often pathetic. I'd love to see a similar rating come in for noise proofing in newer builds... would leave mine and thousands of other properties difficult to sell though so unlikely.

Electric Sheep

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

That plus management fees. I would want my mortgage paid off long before I retire and the next place I buy I need to stay in long term. For some of the more expensive apartments the fees are currently 3k+, imagine what they'll be in 20 years time? Fúck that.

What does the management fee cover?

Royale with Cheese

Electric Sheep wrote: »

What does the management fee cover?

Buildings cover, bin charges, costs associated with common areas + underground car park (light, heat, cleaning, painting/general maintenance). The garden area outside is nice enough so I presume it goes towards the upkeep of that too.

I realise I would need to pay for buildings cover and bin charges myself if I owned a house, but those those combined on a semi-d in the price range my apartment cost me wouldn't be anywhere near the €1275 I'm paying in management fees here. I've seen apartments in the 500-600k range I might actually consider if it wasn't for the €6000 management fees that will only increase with inflation.

Electric Sheep

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Buildings cover, bin charges, costs associated with common areas + underground car park (light, heat, cleaning, painting/general maintenance). The garden area outside is nice enough so I presume it goes towards the upkeep of that too.

I realise I would need to pay for buildings cover and bin charges myself if I owned a house, but those those combined on a semi-d in the price range my apartment cost me wouldn't be anywhere near the €1275 I'm paying in management fees here. I've seen apartments in the 500-600k range I might actually consider if it wasn't for the €6000 management fees that will only increase with inflation.

Does it include a space in the underground car park? Those fees seem quite high for what they cover, but I suppose landscaping, etc is expensive. If residents are able to utilize the garden area it might be worth it.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Early 30s, already own an apartment in the suburbs and will be looking to move in a few years. I've no family to worry about and I would still be reluctant to buy another apartment. Most of the newer ones are built like total shít and it's very hard to find out exactly how bad one is without living in it long term. I was here 6 months thinking it was perfect until I realised there'd been nobody living upstairs the entire time. Really I found the complete lack of soundproofing astonishing. I even knew somebody who lived here for a year before I bought and he assured me he never heard his neighbours. It's pot luck and while at the moment it's merely a minor inconvenience, if the wrong people moved in it would be a nightmare. My living room (very thin) wall is shared with my neighbours master bedroom for some reason. I do my best not to be an asshole, but why would they build two apartments next to each other in that configuration?

That plus management fees. I would want my mortgage paid off long before I retire and the next place I buy I need to stay in long term. For some of the more expensive apartments the fees are currently 3k+, imagine what they'll be in 20 years time? Fúck that.

That leaves me looking at a 3 bed semi d I don't need or even particularly want. The lack of independent construction regulation has led to a total fúcking mess. We've seen the ber come in recently as insulation on older buildings was often pathetic. I'd love to see a similar rating come in for noise proofing in newer builds... would leave mine and thousands of other properties difficult to sell though so unlikely.

Yes, I agree with this. I used to live in an apartment where I had to wear ear plugs every night because the guy in the apartment above me got up for work at about 5.30 am and I could hear every sound he made. That's just not acceptable. Imagine if a couple with two small kids were living there? Or a few students having regular parties? The regulations in relation to sound proofing apartments are appalling. If they're going to become a serious alternative to houses, that needs to be sorted.

Royale with Cheese

I actually really don't want a semi-d, a nice apartment would suit me a lot better. Most of the generic semi-d's are long and narrow, a lot of apartments have better proportioned living rooms. I've no interest in maintaining a garden either, my balcony here gets the sun and overlooks the garden someone else maintains which suits me perfectly. You know things are bad when even people like me who might prefer to live in an apartment don't want to buy them.

Chuchote

But when you say "a nice apartment"…

Visited a friend's apartment in Paris. Modern, small, but so solidly built. You don't hear the lift going up outside, you don't hear people in the hall, you don't hear the next-door apartment's TV or stereo. Nice layout, nice views front and back, balcony, cellar about the size of a bathroom where you can store winter stuff in summer and vice versa and keep the bikes, good secure entryway, excellent management run by the apartment owners and not by a separate company. A world of difference from the Irish standard.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Chuchote wrote: »

But when you say "a nice apartment"…

Visited a friend's apartment in Paris. Modern, small, but so solidly built. You don't hear the lift going up outside, you don't hear people in the hall, you don't hear the next-door apartment's TV or stereo. Nice layout, nice views front and back, balcony, cellar about the size of a bathroom where you can store winter stuff in summer and vice versa and keep the bikes, good secure entryway, excellent management run by the apartment owners and not by a separate company. A world of difference from the Irish standard.

Yes, a huge problem with Irish apartments is that they're just not designed for long term living. They have no storage space and are often subject to spurious decisions by Management Companies and Agents with no proper consultation; not to mention unexplained hikes in annual fees. Delays in paying fees while you query things just result in solicitors' letters and threats of legal action. There seems to be no proper guidelines or strict regulations regarding how this system should work.

Chuchote

One of the big advantages of the Paris place is that the management company is the owners - they're the ones who hire plumbers and electricians to come in, and who deal with the lift if it breaks, etc.
One thing I'd add to make it perfect would be a basement washing-and-drying area like they have in some American apartments. It doesn't make sense to have a load of different apartments each with their own space-gobbling washing and drying machines when you could have a couple in one place that everyone could use.
This particular block doesn't have its own garden, but people grow geraniums and the like on the balconies, and there are several fabulous parks nearby.

pilly

Imagine the hassle involved in a fifty storey building when the lifts break down? And there's only one reputable firm in the whole of Ireland that repairs them?

Wouldn't fancy climbing those 50 flights of stairs.

andekwarhola

pilly wrote: »

Not everyone works in the city though?

Also makes me laugh when people pimp the city centre line.

I've worked in four different IT companies in the last 16 years, only one of which was in the city centre.

I've a friend that constantly trumpets his snail's pace bus or walk into and across town from the inner suburbs as if it's composed of special minutes that are magically shorter than an equivalent journey between two suburban locations.

pilly

andekwarhola wrote: »

Also makes me laugh when people pimp the city centre line.

I've worked in four different IT companies in the last 16 years, only one of which was in the city centre.

I've a friend that constantly trumpets his snail's pace bus or walk into and across town from the inner suburbs as if it's composed of special minutes that are magically shorter than an equivalent journey between two suburban locations.

That's just it, so many multi-nationals are set up in suburban locations anyways. Dell in Leixlip being a good example. A large majority working there live in Kildare.

mcgovern

pilly wrote: »

That's just it, so many multi-nationals are set up in suburban locations anyways. Dell in Leixlip being a good example. A large majority working there live in Kildare.

Dell are in Bray
Intel and HP in Leixlip.

fred funk }{

mcgovern wrote: »

Dell are in Bray
Intel and HP in Leixlip.

Dell are in Cherrywood

pilly

mcgovern wrote: »

Dell are in Bray
Intel and HP in Leixlip.

Ah well, you got the gist! None of them in Dublin City centre anyway.

Electric Sheep

pilly wrote: »

Imagine the hassle involved in a fifty storey building when the lifts break down? And there's only one reputable firm in the whole of Ireland that repairs them?

Wouldn't fancy climbing those 50 flights of stairs.

In 25 years of high rise living I have never been in a situation where ALL of the lifts in a building were out of order. I don't live in Ireland though. It comes down to good management and maintenance.

Again with the Ballymun Flats attitude. It's different when tenants own their condo or are paying rent, they don't put up with that kind of crap.

pilly

Electric Sheep wrote: »

In 25 years of high rise living I have never been in a situation where ALL of the lifts in a building were out of order. I don't live in Ireland though. It comes down to good management and maintenance.

Again with the Ballymun Flats attitude. It's different when tenants own their condo or are paying rent, they don't put up with that kind of crap.

Yes but you don't live in Ireland. I've plenty of friends who have apartment here and they have very strong legs from climbing stairs. And these are people who are paying big management fees. It can regularly be a week without a lift.

Electric Sheep

pilly wrote: »

Yes but you don't live in Ireland. I've plenty of friends who have apartment here and they have very strong legs from climbing stairs. And these are people who are paying big management fees. It can regularly be a week without a lift.

And what do they do about it? Whinge on Boards, or get into it with the management company and demand proper service?

pilly

Electric Sheep wrote: »

And what do they do about it? Whinge on Boards, or get into it with the management company and demand proper service?

I'm not doing any whinging, I don't live in an apartment block? Not sure why the reason for the attack.

I'm simply pointing out that if Irish management companies can't run 4 and 5 floor apartment blocks what hope have they of running 50 floor blocks?

My friends complain daily whenever the lift is gone, the answer is always the same, we're waiting for the repair man to come out, he's very busy. Amateur hour.

Electric Sheep

pilly wrote: »

I'm not doing any whinging, I don't live in an apartment block? Not sure why the reason for the attack.

I'm simply pointing out that if Irish management companies can't run 4 and 5 floor apartment blocks what hope have they of running 50 floor blocks?

My friends complain daily whenever the lift is gone, the answer is always the same, we're waiting for the repair man to come out, he's very busy. Amateur hour.

Sorry, Pilly, if you took that as a anttack on you, it was not meant that way. I meant that if you put up with crap service, you continue to get crap service. There seems to be a fatalistic "sure what can you do" attitude in Ireland to poor service that creates a vicious circle.

pilly

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Sorry, Pilly, if you took that as a anttack on you, it was not meant that way. I meant that if you put up with crap service, you continue to get crap service. There seems to be a fatalistic "sure what can you do" attitude in Ireland to poor service that creates a vicious circle.

True enough, we need to get more American about complaining.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Electric Sheep wrote: »

And what do they do about it? Whinge on Boards, or get into it with the management company and demand proper service?

Ha ha ha. Have you ever actually lived in a property where you have to pay Management fees. You can demand all you like. The law seems to be totally on their side, and residents paying the fees have very few rights. It took me about a year to get anti climbing paint on a wall that was causing a serious security risk. Every time I rang 'oh we're waiting for the signs to be made'.

Paulzx

pilly wrote: »

True enough, we need to get more American about complaining.

Complaining only works when the person you are complaining to gives a sh&^.

Unfortunately that generally doesn't apply here

Electric Sheep

Wyatt Little Home wrote: »

Ha ha ha. Have you ever actually lived in a property where you have to pay Management fees. You can demand all you like. The law seems to be totally on their side, and residents paying the fees have very few rights. It took me about a year to get anti climbing paint on a wall that was causing a serious security risk. Every time I rang 'oh we're waiting for the signs to be made'.

Yes, I have, for 20 years - but in the US, not in Ireland.

"We are waiting for the signs to be made" - demand the contact details for the company that is making the signs, and get in direct contact with them to determine the reason for the delay, or find out if this is just an excuse. Same for any other excuses offered by management.

In Ireland in these situations, is there an actual building manager that is employed in a paid position? This is a genuine question, I am interested in how building management actually works in Ireland.