the 'there's no such thing as a stupid question' bike maintenance thread

Type 17

The lube isn't put on before assembly - it's applied before packing, and creeps inside the components by capillary action, which is also how it works when the bike owner does it.

magicbastarder

07Lapierre wrote: »

The lube is applied to the individual parts during the manufacturing process

you were the one person to hit thanks on this post!

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115135275&postcount=749

07Lapierre

magicbastarder wrote: »

you were the one person to hit thanks on this post!

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115135275&postcount=749

I guess I should have watched the video!

(I still maintain that there's no need to lube a new chain)

cletus

magicbastarder wrote: »

you were the one person to hit thanks on this post!

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115135275&postcount=749

It now has two likes, I missed it when you posted. I prefer the English narrator they had for Discovery UK.

As an aside, I was actually in the Rohloff factory, got a tour from Bernhard Rohloff. His chain machine is fascinating. He designed and built it himself

Type 17

07Lapierre wrote: »

I still maintain that there's no need to lube a new chain

I agree that the factory stuff is an excellent lubricant, but I've found that it disappears fairly quickly, especially in wet weather, so adding your own at the start does no harm. Looking at a YouTube video just there, it appears that Campag at least apply the oil as a hot dip, so presumably it goes in everywhere while it's hot (thinner, less viscous) and when it goes cold, is nice and thick and 'lubricanty'

While it's not practical for us end-users to add lube when it's hot, I have found wax lubes the best* - they go on as a thin liquid (good for capillary action to allow it to creep in everywhere) and then the solvent evaporates, leaving the waxy lube behind, which slowly squeezes out over the next few hundred km or so, carrying dirt and contaminants with it. After that, I simply wipe the dirt/wax off the outside of the chain with a rag and apply more fresh liquid which creeps into the inside of the chain again.
When I used wet-lube oils, I got around 1,000km per (11-speed) chain with regular degreasing and re-lubing, but with the wipe-and-apply-more-wax regime, my last chain got changed at 0.55% wear at 4,100km.

*for me, your mileage may vary

cletus

Type 17 wrote: »

I agree that the factory stuff is an excellent lubricant, but I've found that it disappears fairly quickly, especially in wet weather, so adding your own at the start does no harm. Looking at a YouTube video just there, it appears that Campag at least apply the oil as a hot dip, so presumably it goes in everywhere while it's hot (thinner, less viscous) and when it goes cold, is nice and thick and 'lubricanty'

While it's not practical for us end-users to add lube when it's hot, I have found wax lubes the best* - they go on as a thin liquid (good for capillary action to allow it to creep in everywhere) and then the solvent evaporates, leaving the waxy lube behind, which slowly squeezes out over the next few hundred km or so, carrying dirt and contaminants with it. After that, I simply wipe the dirt/wax off the outside of the chain with a rag and apply more fresh liquid which creeps into the inside of the chain again.
When I used wet-lube oils, I got around 1,000km per (11-speed) chain with regular degreasing and re-lubing, but with the wipe-and-apply-more-wax regime, my last chain got changed at 0.55% wear at 4,100km.

*for me, your mileage may vary

Have you a particular wax lube that you use, or is a wax lube just a dry lube

wheelo01

Me three, I missed it also, kinda fascinating that programme, the most basic of things being manufactured can be awesome.
This one on the chain got me thinking, I knew all the bits necessary, just didn't know "how they did that"

07Lapierre

Type 17 wrote: »

I agree that the factory stuff is an excellent lubricant,

Agreed. You initially said it was applied to prevent corrosion only, which is why I replied.

IMO, you can't beat that new chain feeling. I try to get a few weeks out of a new chain, because once you degrease and apply fresh lube, that new chain feeling is gone.

magicbastarder

I think people just make it themselves usually. Melt wax with a solvent.

cletus

Feeling on a roll here tonight so I've another question.

I bought a Raleigh Scorpion back in 1993 ( with my confirmation money, as it happens. I loved that bike. Some båstard stole it on me)

I had the front wheel replaced due to buckling the original. Work was done by an old boy working out of his shed.

I had the wheel off to patch a tube, popped it back on, and a short while later, I had a spectacular over the handlebars crash when the front axle locked up and pretzeled itself.

When we went back to said old boy, he told me that I had put the wheel back on in the wrong direction.

I've never heard this before or since. Is it a thing?

magicbastarder

cletus wrote: »

It now has two likes, I missed it when you posted. I prefer the English narrator they had for Discovery UK.

Yep, you'd miss the puns.

Type 17

cletus wrote: »

Have you a particular wax lube that you use, or is a wax lube just a dry lube

All waxes are dry lubes, but not all dry lubes are waxes

Waxes and dry lubes are a big deal in dry, dusty conditions (Mediterranean countries, SW USA, etc), because an oily chain will catch loads of dust and form a nasty grinding paste that will destroy a chain in a few hundred km.
However, regular dry lubes are not great in northern Europe because a damp day will have your chain squealing like a pig, but waxes are a nice balance between low dirt collection and reasonable water resistance.
My favourite aspect of wax is that you can just wipe the chain with a dry rag and add more lube, rather than having to try and strip out the oil to get the dirt out with it, so you tend to take more care of your chain because it's easy to do.

I use Smoove, here's a review, but there are other good ones, I'm sure.

It does last ages, I bought two bottles on Amazon UK about 2 years ago, and I'm only 90% through the first one.

07Lapierre

cletus wrote: »

Feeling on a roll here tonight so I've another question.

I bought a Raleigh Scorpion back in 1993 ( with my confirmation money, as it happens. I loved that bike. Some båstard stole it on me)

I had the front wheel replaced due to buckling the original. Work was done by an old boy working out of his shed.

I had the wheel off to patch a tube, popped it back on, and a short while later, I had a spectacular over the handlebars crash when the front axle locked up and pretzeled itself.

When we went back to said old boy, he told me that I had put the wheel back on in the wrong direction.

I've never heard this before or since. Is it a thing?

No it shouldn't make a difference...unless the "mechanic" forgot to put one or both of the locknuts on the cones. Put the wheel in the wrong way and the cones would tighten and the axle would eventually seize.

Type 17

cletus wrote: »

Feeling on a roll here tonight so I've another question.

I bought a Raleigh Scorpion back in 1993 ( with my confirmation money, as it happens. I loved that bike. Some båstard stole it on me)

I had the front wheel replaced due to buckling the original. Work was done by an old boy working out of his shed.

I had the wheel off to patch a tube, popped it back on, and a short while later, I had a spectacular over the handlebars crash when the front axle locked up and pretzeled itself.

When we went back to said old boy, he told me that I had put the wheel back on in the wrong direction.

I've never heard this before or since. Is it a thing?

Yes, on older Raleighs (and probably other English makes), the right-hand cone was screwed in and butted up against a shoulder on the axle, to prevent it tightening any further with the wheel's rotation. The left cone will tend to unscrew with the wheel's rotation, BUT if you put the wheel in backwards, and the (formerly) left cone isn't locked up against its locknut, the wheel will then wind it in until is so tight that the wheel will jam.

Edit: Here's a pic I remembered on my phone - the right cone came loose from the locknut and wound in along the axle (locknut still in original position against inside of forks) - the hub was cheaper and softer than a Raleigh hub, so rather than the wheel jamming, the shell of the hub slowly collapsed (shown in red). The customer came in because the spokes had gone all loose (hub flanges were moved closer together) - obviously an new wheel was required.

cletus

Picture is not showing for me, but sounds like exactly what happened to me, except it happened suddenly, and with a certain finality. Actually, now that I think about it, he fixed the buckle, the axle locked up, and that necessitated the new wheel

Type 17

Sorry, link fixed

CramCycle

cletus wrote: »

Now, on to my weekly stupid question. Picked up a Shimano 9 speed chain today and, perhaps stupidly, assumed it would have a master link. It doesn't. It does have two pins, though.

Its all in my head but a pin failed on me once and I have never trusted them since.

The stupid question is, can I buy a masterlink and put it on? Are there particular sizes for different speed chains?

If you PM me your address I have a few 9 speed masterlinks in the shed from years ago I can throw in an envelope

Sort of a bonus stupid question. Came across a guy on a different forum who claimed that he always completely degreases a new chain, dries it and then relives before first use. Necessary?

No, I know one person who does this and even he admits it is an OCD thing and the factory stuff is about as good as you are going to get. My rule of thumb is you get about 400km out of a factory chain before a proper relubing is needed as I heard someone say it once. For me that's about two weeks. Bar proper waxing, which is a pain in the ass to do, its as good as you will get.

cletus

Type 17 wrote: »

Sorry, link fixed

I see it now, mine was much more severe, there was probably a full rotation in the centre of the hub.

Anyway, all questions answered for the night, thanks folks

Type 17

07Lapierre wrote: »

Agreed. You initially said it was applied to prevent corrosion only, which is why I replied.

Well, it is a good lubricant, but it does wash off quickly, so for most users (busy commuters, who aren't necessarily bike-fetishists like us ), I advise that they should start lubing as normal.

07Lapierre

Yeah, the fact we're on boards discussing chain oil at all says a lot!

(We're nuts!)

cletus

@cram: thanks very much for the offer, but I really wouldn't put you to the effort over something so small.

I'll pop into Halfords on the way home tomorrow and pick one up.

Thanks again though. This is why the cycling forum is so awesome

triggermortis

cletus wrote: »

@cram: thanks very much for the offer, but I really wouldn't put you to the effort over something so small.

I'll pop into Halfords on the way home tomorrow and pick one up.

Thanks again though. This is why the cycling forum is so awesome

If Halfords don’t have them and your other offer falls through, I found an unopened twin pack of them in my toolbox earlier today that you’d be welcome to

CantGetNoSleep

I'm looking at a bike to put permanently on the turbo but it's currently set up 105 5800 11-28 so I'm imagining it is a short cage derailleur. I have an 11-32 on the turbo and another bike so ideally I'd leave the 11-32 on the turbo.

Will the 105 SS derailleur work with an 11-32 on the turbo (assuming I avoid big ring / largest cog)? And will I need to change chain or are there any other complexities to consider?

grogi

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

I'm looking at a bike to put permanently on the turbo but it's currently set up 105 5800 11-28 so I'm imagining it is a short cage derailleur. I have an 11-32 on the turbo and another bike so ideally I'd leave the 11-32 on the turbo.

Will the 105 SS derailleur work with an 11-32 on the turbo (assuming I avoid big ring / largest cog)? And will I need to change chain or are there any other complexities to consider?

It will. Shimano RD cages have much more capacity than listed and even short cage should be able to deal with 37T capacity.

The only issue you might run into - highly unlikely with 32T though - is that the RD is too close to the cassete and the jockey wheel jams with the biggest sprocket. A derailleur hanger extension (few euros/dollars) solves that issue.

CantGetNoSleep

grogi wrote: »

It will. Shimano RD cages have much more capacity than listed and even short cage should be able to deal with 37T capacity.

The only issue you might run into - highly unlikely with 32T though - is that the RD is too close to the cassete and the jockey wheel jams with the biggest sprocket. A derailleur hanger extension (few euros/dollars) solves that issue.

Thanks, would I need a new chain?

Deano12345

Duplicate post!

Deano12345

Not really a maintenance question but probably doesn’t warrant its own thread either.

I’m wanting to sell on the TT bike I built over the summer, but struggling to get an idea of what to price it at, I’ve seen PlanetX bikes of similar spec sell for between 8-1200 so I’m thinking somewhere around there, but interested to hear others thoughts.

Specs :
Generic Carbon TT frame; internal routing 52cm, standard fork/headset
Felt TT saddle
Alpina carbon base bar and extensions
Cane creek brake lever
Dura ace bar end shifters
Dura Ace Calipers
Ultegra 6800 rear mech
105 5800 Front mech
105 cranks
Ultegra Threaded BB
Ursus Carbon 58mm clincher w/GP4K2 front
90mm generic carbon/Novatec rear wheel w/Vittoria cx

I’ve attached an image but since it’s on my phone I hope it doesn’t come up massive!

TychoCaine

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Thanks, would I need a new chain?

You will. There's very little wiggle room if the chain is sized correctly for the smaller cassette

a148pro

Ok, problem on my bike and just wondering what went wrong

Got cranks replaced recently, and I think part of the bottom bracket. For some reason however the cranks are now jamming when I'm in the small ring. This seems to happen in the two easiest climbing gears. It doesn't happen all the time, I was a good hour or two into a cycle when it happened first. I can hear an occasional sound similar to the sound when a chain comes off but everything is otherwise spinning perfectly. While looking down to see what was going on I could see that the RD was popping forward a bit every so often, like bobbling towards the front of the bike a couple of inches. Then every so often the cranks totally jam. I'm not sure what happens below at this point, I think the RD goes fully forward, but it feels like the feeling when you're about to break your RD by forcing it through (if that makes any sense). It doesn't seem to be catching a spoke.

None of this happened before the cranks were replaced. Wondering if the bike shop made a balls of it or could the derailleur have hit something while I put it in a car recently?

It doesn't happen in the big ring at all, the only thing that happens there is in the easiest climbing gears there's a kind of rattle from the chain, this was here before.

Any ideas, its probably something very simple I'm just useless when it comes to maintenance

Type 17

There’s probably a burr or some other flaw on one of the teeth of the small ring and the chain gets stuck on it and drawn up and jams the drivetrain. Probably coincidental to the bb being worked on.

I presume the chain and ring are the same speed (width)?