CES AI & Home Automation

Bluefoam

I am finding the whole AI thing a little bemusing...

Alexa seems great, but I do have concerns that its main aim is to encourage online purchases... I presume that the LG & Lenovo devices announced last week both run on the amazon system & are not new proprietary systems... seems that it would be difficult to compete against both Amazon & Google in this market... Mostly due to their size/power...

HTC have an announcement on Thursday this week regarding phone launches... but considering the 'U' branding they have developed, I'm wondering if there might be an AI aspect to what they are doing... I hope so, as I'm a big HTC fan... But wonder if they will have their own system or use Google Assistant. They've been very open with the development of their VR (Vive) technology & have opened it up to third party developers, allowing them to make progress far faster than Oculus etc (wireless connections & advanced motion trackers being two examples)... so I'm hoping they could take a similar approach with AI and use the partnership idea to develop some cool new products. I assume they'd go with Google due to their existing relationship.

Samsung have also made some noises about integrating AI into their phones, but their strategy is usually to let others do the heavy lifting and then implement it under their own skin...

Google have shown that they are open to third party development & have included Google Assistant with Android TV... The new nVidia Shield will have it built in... This is something I'm actually excited about & have one preordered, but mostly because I need a media box. But it does open up allot of possibilities & means you won't have to buy a Google Home, but you might get it through other products...

Having said all that, I'm sure Apple will see all of this going on, release their own AI hardware to complement Siri & will as a consequence invent the whole concept of AI... or at least that's how they will present it.

What is for sure, is that the whole market is accelerating very fast & who knows where we will be with it in a year or two... But without doubt Amazon have a strong lead by getting to market first, Google have the strength of subscribers to catch up, but it'll be difficult for others to gain traction if they don't get to market soon...

I'm pretty sure that allot of the products we buy in the next couple of years will have AI connectivity... Nespresso machines, cars etc...

I'm also not sure that I was particularly interested in AI until CES this year & the possibilities became more obvious...

Del2005

I hope that there will be some kind of standardisation in all this as I was reading an article that they think that you'll have different AI for different tasks, Alexa for buying Google for news/weather and something else etc. I'm interested but don't want to end up with a Betamax or Laser Disc.

If Apple will "invent" AI for the masses it'll be its usual less capable system but better advertising.

ted1

Apple don't really advertise.

The Apple TV gen 4 has voice control. I can see that as a base fur their offering

Bluefoam

ted1 wrote: »

Apple don't really advertise.

You should live where I live. Billboards, Video ads, in store advertising, PR, Media advertising...

They advertise the **** out of their stuff... They are however very good at how they present it...

Yourself isit

Siri was first to market and Apple have something called home automation.

I think that both home automation, "AI", and VR are all incredibly niche. As are wearables.

There probably why be one more thing to rival modern smart phones.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Bluefoam

Yourself isit wrote: »

Siri was first to market and Apple have something called home automation.

I think that both home automation, "AI", and VR are all incredibly niche. As are wearables.

There probably why be one more thing to rival modern smart phones.

I agree with you on wearables, but even if you don't buy into the Amazon or Google style platforms, it's hard to deny that products in the future will begin to have more integration into our phones/clouds/ai...

It's already begun with Sky TV, set top boxes, chromecast, home speakers, pinless bank cards, leap cards... even hoovers will connect to stuff... The obvious one is cars; android auto is the first step, then autonomous cars....

Yourself isit

Patww79 wrote: »

There's some Home app in their new version of iOS. Presumably that's what it's for.

Like everything, once they implement something a few years later, they'll have invented it. Sure they invented waterproof phones last year and are inventing wireless charging in phones this year.

As it happened Siri preceded the other voice assistants and home kit (the api for home automation on ios) is 3 years old.

But its all niche.

Yourself isit

Bluefoam wrote: »

I agree with you on wearables, but even if you don't buy into the Amazon or Google style platforms, it's hard to deny that products in the future will begin to have more integration into our phones/clouds/ai...

It's already begun with Sky TV, set top boxes, chromecast, home speakers, pinless bank cards, leap cards... even hoovers will connect to stuff... The obvious one is cars; android auto is the first step, then autonomous cars....

I don't know what phones/cloud/AI means. I know whst they mean separately. Just not like that.

Home speakers will talk to phones in the future if the future is 2011. I presume Google and Apple pay (which are useful) is what you mean by the bank cards. Or leap.

None of that is home automation. You can get phone controlled automated lighting already. And some other stuff. Security cameras has an obvious useful Internet functionality but most of the stuff we have in our house doesn't need Internet connections or even WAN connections.

The stuff that does, TVs, already has it.

Bluefoam

Yourself isit wrote: »

I don't know what phones/cloud/AI means. I know whst they mean separately. Just not like that.

Home speakers will talk to phones in the future if the future is 2011. I presume Google and Apple pay (which are useful) is what you mean by the bank cards. Or leap.

None of that is home automation. You can get phone controlled automated lighting already. And some other stuff. Security cameras has an obvious useful Internet functionality but most of the stuff we have in our house doesn't need Internet connections or even WAN connections.

The stuff that does, TVs, already has it.

Not sure you are getting my point... all the items you listed above that do exist can be connected centrally via AI, whether that be through phones/cloud/other... So what you are calling niche, is in fact mass market... you seem to be separating the stuff you see as useful & the stuff that doesn't need connections in your view... but that is irrelevant... Centralised connectivity, whether that be AI or automation is now becoming mainstream. People are buying into it, or have already bought into it...

Yourself isit

Bluefoam wrote: »

Not sure you are getting my point... all the items you listed above that do exist can be connected centrally via AI, whether that be through phones/cloud/other...

The cloud is a term bandied around too much. A hover doesnt need a cloud connection.

So what you are calling niche, is in fact mass market... you seem to be separating the stuff you see as useful & the stuff that doesn't need connections in your view... but that is irrelevant... Centralised connectivity, whether that be AI or automation is now becoming mainstream. People are buying into it, or have already bought into it...

A few years ago the next big thing at CES was wearables which would start with watches and then clothing, shoes, ear pieces etc.

I've been using Bluetooth speakers for years. Sonos has been going for years. I've got netflix on my TV and I can control my TV with my devices.

The Alexa is just another device to do that but voice is mostly more awkward than touch.

What's good in home automation is not new, what's new is not useful.

Bluefoam

Yourself isit wrote: »

The cloud is a term bandied around too much. A hover doesnt need a cloud connection.



A few years ago the next big thing at CES was wearables which would start with watches and then clothing, ear pieces etc.

I've been using Bluetooth speakers for years. Sonos had been going for years. I've got netflix on my TV and I can control my TV with my devices.

The Alexa is just another device to do that but voice is mostly more awkward than touch.

What's good in home automation is not new, what's new is not useful.

You seem to be focused on the fact that you dislike Echo & Home's implementation of AI... like I said earlier, that's kind of irrelevant to the overall point. Voice is just one way of dealing with AI. You are also trying to suggest that the new products on the market are not useful & that you've been using connected tech for years, which you have, good stuff...

But now there is a concerted effort to centralise the connections to those devices & make interplay more seamless... That is all... that is what I find interesting at the moment.

For example: I own a set of 5 wireless speakers, a wireless smart TV, a chromecast, an android box, a smart phone & a tablet... many of these items, I have owned for 5 years... Recently have been able to interact in a cohesive way through all of them... not because they were never able to connect, but because there has been considerable effort and attention put into a centralised communication system that helps them share information & capabilities... It doesn't matter if you communicate with the system via voice activation or by tapping on the screen of your phone... It is centralised connectivity & it is useful...

Bluefoam

Yourself isit wrote: »

The cloud is a term bandied around too much. A hover doesnt need a cloud connection.

I beg to differ... I'm not trying to say that a hoover has to have a cloud connection... but it can certainly be useful...

Example: I have been away for a couple of weeks... It would have been beneficial to me to have been able to send a task to a roomba (or similar) to hoover the floors while I was away... I didn't need the hoover to be constantly cleaning and wasting energy, but it would have been nice for the floors to be clean of dust when I arrived home.

As it happened, I arrived back got struck into heavy workload that I missed out on while I was travelling... still haven't managed to hoover & probably won't till Friday... A simple cloud instruction would have had the place ready for me when I returned...

TCP/IP

Edited Thread title to a more appropriate one to the content.

wexfordman2

Bluefoam wrote: »

I beg to differ... I'm not trying to say that a hoover has to have a cloud connection... but it can certainly be useful...

Example: I have been away for a couple of weeks... It would have been beneficial to me to have been able to send a task to a roomba (or similar) to hoover the floors while I was away... I didn't need the hoover to be constantly cleaning and wasting energy, but it would have been nice for the floors to be clean of dust when I arrived home.

As it happened, I arrived back got struck into heavy workload that I missed out on while I was travelling... still haven't managed to hoover & probably won't till Friday... A simple cloud instruction would have had the place ready for me when I returned...

Or better still, your cloud connected security system talks to your cloud connected heating system, and your cloud connected Hoover and determined that while you are away, then adjust the heating and cleaning schedules appropriately.

Your cloud connected washing machine will talk to your cloud connected energy company to determine the best and cheapest time to clean your clothes.

Yourself isit

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Or better still, your cloud connected security system talks to your cloud connected heating system, and your cloud connected Hoover and determined that while you are away, then adjust the heating and cleaning schedules appropriately.

Your cloud connected washing machine will talk to your cloud connected energy company to determine the best and cheapest time to clean your clothes.

Firstly you don't need the cloud (a term I am beginning to hate) for most of that. It could just be a wan. Secondly what is your security system going to tell your cleaning system? There's no burglary ongoing so start to clean?

Your cheapest time to do the washing up is nighttime. You have to be there to load and unload. No cloud required.

Yourself isit

Bluefoam wrote: »

I beg to differ... I'm not trying to say that a hoover has to have a cloud connection... but it can certainly be useful...

Example: I have been away for a couple of weeks... It would have been beneficial to me to have been able to send a task to a roomba (or similar) to hoover the floors while I was away... I didn't need the hoover to be constantly cleaning and wasting energy, but it would have been nice for the floors to be clean of dust when I arrived home.

As it happened, I arrived back got struck into heavy workload that I missed out on while I was travelling... still haven't managed to hoover & probably won't till Friday... A simple cloud instruction would have had the place ready for me when I returned...

And yet you don't even have a roomba or similar.
If you had one you could probably time it to the day before you come back.

wexfordman2

Yourself isit wrote: »

Firstly you don't need the cloud (a term I am beginning to hate) for most of that. It could just be a wan. Secondly what is your security system going to tell your cleaning system? There's no burglary ongoing so start to clean?

Your cheapest time to do the washing up is nighttime. You have to be there to load and unload. No cloud required.

You are correct, there is no need for my security system to tell my heating system or my Hoover we have a burgler, but it does tell the heating system when the house is unoccupied or in night mode, and the heating system or Hoover reacts accordingly.

With respect to the cheapest time to do your laundry, night time is not necessarily the cheapest time, it is simply the current default time to do it, as there is no connectivity to a smart system to allow energy companies dynamicly control demand.

Demand, and off peak is not as black and white as night time day time, it has regional variations etc and allowing or providing the ability to control and influence that demand for example can be hugely beneficial from an efficiency and environmental perspective.

The way we manage and use power at the moment is archaic, and smart, internet connected devices that are able to collect data from multiple sources is just so obviously practical.

Bluefoam

Yourself isit wrote: »

And yet you don't even have a roomba or similar.
If you had one you could probably time it to the day before you come back.

You obviously don't like the technology we're discussing... That's fine, it's not for everyone. You literally don't like the term 'cloud' which is just a catch all discriptive for various services and technologies...

So why are you hanging out in the Home Automation & Internet of Things (IOT) forum? I'm not trying to be bad, but you just seem to be grumpy about these new products and aren't excited about the potential... Probably best for you to ignore them... There's others here who are interested, hence the existence of the forum...

Yourself isit

wexfordman2 wrote: »

You are correct, there is no need for my security system to tell my heating system or my Hoover we have a burgler, but it does tell the heating system when the house is unoccupied or in night mode, and the heating system or Hoover reacts accordingly.

That's absurd. You will tell the security system it's in night mode and its job is to tell your heating system to also be in night mode, which is irrelevant since your heating system just needs a sensor to know the temperature (or a sensor and timer for storage systems. I have that. It's connected to nothing.) Then multiple hovers for all the floors will start at 4 am.

With respect to the cheapest time to do your laundry, night time is not necessarily the cheapest time, it is simply the current default time to do it, as there is no connectivity to a smart system to allow energy companies dynamicly control demand.

Demand, and off peak is not as black and white as night time day time, it has regional variations etc and allowing or providing the ability to control and influence that demand for example can be hugely beneficial from an efficiency and environmental perspective.

The way we manage and use power at the moment is archaic, and smart, internet connected devices that are able to collect data from multiple sources is just so obviously practical.

Demand is in fact night and day. There being little industry at night, few shops open and most people asleep. Most of that won't change.

And what you're asking for here isn't a simple device uploading data but a huge change to the software and back haul of all utilities to effectively push notifications to your electronic devices to start working or not. I don't see that being very popular.

wexfordman2

Yourself isit wrote: »

That's absurd. You will tell the security system it's in night mode and its job is to tell your heating system to also be in night mode, which is irrelevant since your heating system just needs a sensor to know the temperature (or a sensor and timer for storage systems. I have that. It's connected to nothing.) Then multiple hovers for all the floors will start at 4 am.




Demand is in fact night and day. There being little industry at night, few shops open and most people asleep. Most of that won't change.

And what you're asking for here isn't a simple device uploading data but a huge change to the software and back haul of all utilities to effectively push notifications to your electronic devices to start working or not. I don't see that being very popular.

Look, I get that you don't get it, that's fine, your simple set up of a thermostat and a timer is adequate for you, but you fail to understand or appreciate the significant benefits of having them connected to other bits of your home and life.

Your simplistic timer in your heating system is restrictive, in that it only reacts based on the time you tell it to react and nothing outside of those simple parameters. Connecting it to other systems, such as your security system, allows you heating to react based on a little more that your current dumb setup of time. It means that your dynamic life, IE, when you leave the house, or when you into bed at night is part of what controls your heating, not some arbitrary 10pm on Wednesday.

But hey, if you don't understand it or don't get it, then that's fine, I don't get why you are posting here though.

The dynamic control of peak off peak is not as big an infrastrcutual change as you make it out to be, it's much more about enabling smart devices in the home than anything else. As for making people go for it, there are examples of this having been done already on a commercial basis, where companies are encouraged to use energy at specific times, spreading the load, not reducing it. The incentive is price to the consumer. There are entire power stations in this country built unneccisarrily because we cannot manage demand in a more controlled way.

mneylon

I'm at CES this week in Vegas and have been walking around the floors.
Wearables and drones are huge. But when it comes to home automation Alexa seems to be winning - mainly because Amazon have an open API. So you're now seeing Alexa integration in a crazy mixture of devices. Some make perfect sense, others are part of the "everyone else is doing it" group, while others are doing it "because they can". 
There are a couple of competing technologies for the connections between devices that have taken big stands here - but it's not at all clear if there will be any obvious "winner" for now. 
We live in interesting times

mossym

Yourself isit wrote: »

Firstly you don't need the cloud (a term I am beginning to hate) for most of that. It could just be a wan. Secondly what is your security system going to tell your cleaning system? There's no burglary ongoing so start to clean?

Your cheapest time to do the washing up is nighttime. You have to be there to load and unload. No cloud required.

You are very wrong. All the wan does is allow communication. And if you are taking about home, it's a LAN, not a WAN. Anyway, a LAN or WAN is just a channel, it has no smarts. Nothing that can figure things out or make a decision, based on logic , patterns or scenarios. That is where the cloud , or some server , maybe, local on your network comes in. All the solutions you have listed rely on you intervening control things. Hardly automation by any definition of the word. The idea behind all this is to remove the manual intervention.

It's not for everyone though. You don't like it, That's fair enough. Bashing it while demonstrating you don't fully understand it though seems odd

Del2005

Blacknight wrote: »

I'm at CES this week in Vegas and have been walking around the floors.
Wearables and drones are huge. But when it comes to home automation Alexa seems to be winning - mainly because Amazon have an open API. So you're now seeing Alexa integration in a crazy mixture of devices. Some make perfect sense, others are part of the "everyone else is doing it" group, while others are doing it "because they can". 
There are a couple of competing technologies for the connections between devices that have taken big stands here - but it's not at all clear if there will be any obvious "winner" for now. 
We live in interesting times

CES is a US show and Amazon works in the US. Amazon doesn't work as well in loads of countries, like here, while Google does. Don't forget that CES was pushing 3D TV a few years ago, now it's completely dropped, and smart watches are struggling.

IMO CES and other shows are like concept cars that manufacturers produce for car shows. It looks good and everyone wants it, but something completely different ends up being sold to the consumer or it never gets made.

mossym

Del2005 wrote: »

CES is a US show and Amazon works in the US. Amazon doesn't work as well in loads of countries, like here, while Google does. Don't forget that CES was pushing 3D TV a few years ago, now it's completely dropped, and smart watches are struggling.

IMO CES and other shows are like concept cars that manufacturers produce for car shows. It looks good and everyone wants it, but something completely different ends up being sold to the consumer or it never gets made.

it may be located in the US, but it's far from a US show. i've been at CES for work 8 times, and more goes on at CES than ever makes the news. Sure, the big companies use it as a platform to show their concepts, 100% agree with you, but in most cases that a very small % of what they are showing. In most cases they're quite honest that the concept stuff will never make the market, or is years away if it is, panasonics living wall being a good example. it's proof of capability, not proof of product.

CES doesn't push anything. it's a show. they have no say, or knowledge of what the suppliers bring, you should see the secrecy the different companies go through even the day before the show so that rivals don't see their stands. if CES didn't exist, the suppliers would be pushing the exact same products through different channels.

CES was initially focused, and it's still the main activity, on bringing retailers and producers together to hammer out annual agreements on what products/suppliers they were going to stock. the amount of companies, (especially chinese in the last few years) who pay big money for a stand knowing they will never get a shred of media coverage, have no concept products and may only have 1 actual product but go there in the hope of picking up distributors or resellers for their products dwarf the big guys with the big releases. it's fair to say the media glosses over that pretty well.

if what i read is correct, the funniest thing was Echo, alexa, dot or any of the echo products were not officially at CES, at least not as a demonstrated product. crazy the amount of engagement they got if that's the case

Del2005

mossym wrote: »

it may be located in the US, but it's far from a US show. i've been at CES for work 8 times, and more goes on at CES than ever makes the news. Sure, the big companies use it as a platform to show their concepts, 100% agree with you, but in most cases that a very small % of what they are showing. In most cases they're quite honest that the concept stuff will never make the market, or is years away if it is, panasonics living wall being a good example. it's proof of capability, not proof of product.

CES doesn't push anything. it's a show. they have no say, or knowledge of what the suppliers bring, you should see the secrecy the different companies go through even the day before the show so that rivals don't see their stands. if CES didn't exist, the suppliers would be pushing the exact same products through different channels.

CES was initially focused, and it's still the main activity, on bringing retailers and producers together to hammer out annual agreements on what products/suppliers they were going to stock. the amount of companies, (especially chinese in the last few years) who pay big money for a stand knowing they will never get a shred of media coverage, have no concept products and may only have 1 actual product but go there in the hope of picking up distributors or resellers for their products dwarf the big guys with the big releases. it's fair to say the media glosses over that pretty well.

if what i read is correct, the funniest thing was Echo, alexa, dot or any of the echo products were not officially at CES, at least not as a demonstrated product. crazy the amount of engagement they got if that's the case

I was just quoting this BBC article on why they thought Alexa was being pushed so much at CES

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-38539326

As others have posted here Alexa is OK for use in Ireland but Assistant has better geographic knowledge.

That's what I was trying to say. It's a trade show that has been morphed by the press into a something that it isn't and some people think that what's hot at CES is the next big thing. As has been shown by 3D TV, smart watches and other "hot" things that are pushed at CES its the consumer who decides what they actually want.

It'll be an interesting fight to see which AI becomes VHS and which becomes Betamax, especially since Betamax was better. Which is why I'm reluctant to start investing in home AI, especially since it appears that we'll have to buy another item to protect ourselves

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-38415067

mossym

yeah, very true, pretty much agree, but for every failed technology, and totally right with the ones you listed, there have been a hell of a lot of successes as well, flat panels, smart TV's, High Definition itself, streaming, Blu-ray, most of the new car infotainment technology was launched there as well. lots of big money hits to go with the misses as well.

i'm not sure i'd share your view on there being a winner though, it's not like the VHS/Betamax battle, that was pretty much a one off. in fact i can think of only one other format war like that which resulted in a "winner".

there is no reason both google home, and Alexa, and Apple's ihome,and a myriad others if they wanted, cannot co-exist. looks at iphone and android, they co-exist, quite succesfully, because the phones and operating system just serve as a enabler for the real functionality which is the apps, and those exist on both platforms, if not the exact same then a close alternative. A netflix/spotify/youtube + many more app is available for IOS, android, windows, + a bunch of other flavours of OS's that tv and equipment makers have adopted, and all coexist quite happily.

given it's all software, even if one solution makes a leap forward,the other will adapt almost immediately. i don't think you'll ever see a winner here, the functionality offered by the different flavours of AI will converge , there will be minor differences, like there is with Android/IOS, but outside of the die hard fanboys most users won't see the difference.

mossym

i will add, one of the reasons i say this is the approach amazon have taken so far in opening everything up to partners with alexa. i've a hunch this is due to the approach they took with the kindles (where they used a much more closed approach their own flavour of android so not fully compatible with the existing infrastructure) not really working out. the kindles are popular, but i don't think they've caught on like they would have hoped.

if amazon (or any of the other makers) put up walls to block apps in or out, i think they will fail. in that case though i still don't think there will be a single winner, the phone market is saturated, both apple and google are looking for new markets and neither will walk away from this

Bluefoam

You are right that Amazon are out in front right now... however, allot of people are already invested in Google & will go that route as a consequence. While most don't use Google Now, the service is already in most phones as well as the google suite of apps... Also, allot of people already have additional google devices.

Personally, I don't see Amazon as a service provider or consumer product brand... to me they are a shop & will always want me to buy products from them, so I am weary of putting a conduit to their retail store in the forefront of my life.

As for Google, I have already bought into their hardware and software. I have a google account with their productivity suite of apps, I have a Chromecast, Smart TV c/w Cast capabilities, a Chromecast Audio speaker system, an Android TV box... It make sense that I would go with them. The trust issue with them is different, but I don't believe they are interested in my personal information apart from statistical data & targeted advertising...

I think Google will catch up quickly on Amazon... I also think there will be some interesting progression made with their partners... Nvidia have included Assistant in their latest Android box and "Spot' a device fairly similar to Home, but inexpensive and more flexible. I also think HTC are going to do something really interesting this week at their launch event...

Apple will make an effort in this market & capitalise on their installed & loyal user base... How they will do though, I don't know, I think they have lost their was as innovators.

mossym

Bluefoam wrote: »

You are right that Amazon are out in front right now... however, allot of people are already invested in Google & will go that route as a consequence. While most don't use Google Now, the service is already in most phones as well as the google suite of apps... Also, allot of people already have additional google devices.

.

a lead which i think will be fairly short lived, i think it will all homogenise pretty quickly, much as smartphones did but in a very accelerated timeline.

and totally agree with the google investment. that was my gist when i mentioned about amazon remaining open. although quasi-android based, it never fully embraced the google side of things with the kindles. if they do the same with alexa, i can see many jumping ship. myself included.

(by google side of things, i don't mean they have to use google services. they can, or they need to offer a comparable alternative.)

the biggest challenge for amazon will be reacting to an integration google or apple do into the core functionality of a phone. anything done with an app they can replicate, but if it's OS based they might struggle. Thats why i think they have done well here, if they get enough of an installed base, which they seem to be doing, they make it very difficult for google or apple not to consider that customer base when releasing new features.

rolion

Im reading twice the above posts and dunno why but i'm worried about the future ... who i'm I !?

Bluefoam

rolion wrote: »

Im reading twice the above posts and dunno why but i'm worried about the future ... who i'm I !?

Santa!!?

bk

Del2005 wrote: »

I hope that there will be some kind of standardisation in all this as I was reading an article that they think that you'll have different AI for different tasks, Alexa for buying Google for news/weather and something else etc. I'm interested but don't want to end up with a Betamax or Laser Disc.

Bull, I've both GHome and Alexa and they both largely do the same things. They have pros and cons but for the moment they are almost interchangeable.

I've never once ordered anything with Alexa. It gets mostly used for playing music via spotify and controlling HA tech, exactly the same for GHome.

Del2005 wrote: »

If Apple will "invent" AI for the masses it'll be its usual less capable system but better advertising.

Apple already did, it is called Siri and it was one of the first voice controllable AI's.

Apple have also been working on the HomeKit standard. While there are pros and cons to these sort of things, HomeKit by far has the best security and some of the best reliability of any HA tech.

Yourself isit wrote: »

Your cheapest time to do the washing up is nighttime. You have to be there to load and unload. No cloud required.

Only if you have a night rate meter, which most homes don't.

Also the Irish Electricity Regulator is currently holding a consultation to scrap night rate meters and instead replace them with smart meters with dynamic pricing based on either 15 or 30 minute slots.

This is due to changes in how the grid operates, with more people charging Electric Vehicles at night and more and more renewable generation sources such as wind and solar which are far more variable.

As a result it is expected that every electricity meter in Ireland will be replaced by a new smart meter.

It would then make a lot of sense for your smart washing machine and dishwasher to only switch on when the smart meter tells them electricity is at it's cheapest prices. Even fridge/freezers could adjust they cooling cycles to match cheaper times.

Even without this, I'd still like to have a smart washing machine. I could load it in the morning before going to work and then turn it on remotely 2 hours before I come home from work. So it would just be finishing before I come home. Much better then putting on the washing machine as I leave and thus leave the washing sitting their damp for hours.

mossym

bk wrote: »

Even without this, I'd still like to have a smart washing machine. I could load it in the morning before going to work and then turn it on remotely 2 hours before I come home from work. So it would just be finishing before I come home. Much better then putting on the washing machine as I leave and thus leave the washing sitting their damp for hours.

i've slightly different goals, i want mine to come on when it detects me leaving the house and my wife coming home.

that what she'll have to empty the bl**dy thing

joking aside, the varying energy cost model a good example of the difference between simply having something connected versus the benefits of controlled via automation.

Stoner

mossym wrote:

joking aside, the varying energy cost model a good example of the difference between simply having something connected versus the benefits of controlled via automation.

True , and in the future there may be a time band for using certain electronic devices from the grid anyway , maybe only a quick wash would be allowed at certain times.

mossym

Stoner wrote: »

True , and in the future there may be a time band for using certain electronic devices from the grid anyway , maybe only a quick wash would be allowed at certain times.

i remember having this conversation with someone before about smart homes, not exactly the same lines, but this reminds me of one of the ideas we banded about, was of a max limit on your energy draw from the grid. it would be smart controlled, so instead of certain times you could use things your house would schedule discretionary usage, washing machines for example to times when your usage was low, usually night for most people, but perhaps not. if you were going over a limit then it would pause some items until your draw dropped again .

the idea being that by guaranteeing a max draw from your house you got a cheaper rate by allowing better forecasting for the suppliers. there is a bundle of issues that would need to be figured out but it's jsut an example of what is possible

bk

I don't think we will get to a stage where usage at certain times is completely banned * just that turning at the washing machine at 6pm would cost you 10 times what it would at 3am.

* It could certainly happen in other countries with less well developed electric grids, doubt it will happen in Ireland or most western nations.

wexfordman2

mossym wrote: »

i remember having this conversation with someone before about smart homes, not exactly the same lines, but this reminds me of one of the ideas we banded about, was of a max limit on your energy draw from the grid. it would be smart controlled, so instead of certain times you could use things your house would schedule discretionary usage, washing machines for example to times when your usage was low, usually night for most people, but perhaps not. if you were going over a limit then it would pause some items until your draw dropped again .

the idea being that by guaranteeing a max draw from your house you got a cheaper rate by allowing better forecasting for the suppliers. there is a bundle of issues that would need to be figured out but it's jsut an example of what is possible

When you look at the above, and the last few posts, it is by far the one of the most compelling reasons for having smart appliances, to effectively manage the load of the national network, and reduce the overall requirement for power generation. And this can be implemented without major infrastructural changes, its not a massive upgrade to the grid, its lots of minor upgrades to the end devices.

Large corporate customers already operator on the basis of varied price ranges, ie, the purcchase power at different rates going forward. I remember talking to a guy who showed me some analysis of a few high power users where he effectviely event out the power usage to a more linear usage pattern, and removed spikes of usage. It is removing those spikes which will have one of the most dramatic effects to overall power generation, as the power is generated based on the peak load, so if you can spread it, and reduce the peaks, then you can actually reduce the need to have power stations. He said that there are power stations in this country present just to allow people boil their kettle during the add break on coronation street (tongue in cheek comment, but the point was relevent).

In the US, there are companies which pay you to install their thermostats on your premises whcih they can adjus remotely. The power companies contact them when the network is reaching near breaking point, and then the drop the AC on thousands of premises by a deg or two to reduce the load on the network suffeceintly to reduce the load (and get paid handsomely for doing it I imagine)