heating broken,landlord says its my problem to fix

joeyboy12345

Hi,
Having returned after the xmas to our rental property the gas heating wasnt working. I rang the E.A dealing with our lease to tell him the situation thinking he would send a plumber at the landlords expense. When i explained the problem he said the system was airlocked because i had turned the heating off over the xmas and therefore it was my issue to fix at my expense. I didnt argue as i didnt know where i stood. Is he right?

We have been renting this property the last 2 and a half years with no hassel and rent always paid early.

fh041205

How long did you have the heating off for? The answer may be irrelevant because I would presume it's the landlords responsibility unless they can prove you did some damage by misusing the equipment.

Not having heating on is perfectly legitimate in my eyes. It would also take quite a while to airlock a gas heating system wouldn't it?

Neon_Lights

Just bleed the radiators be grand like, no point causing a scene 😂

joeyboy12345

Neon_Lights wrote:

Just bleed the radiators be grand like, no point causing a scene 😂

Theres no air in the rads, i opened the valves and no air came out! The heating was off for 4 or 5 days i suppose!

endacl

An airlocked heating system isn't a broken heating system. Simple to sort if you've access to Google. Expecting a londlord to fix it is up there with expecting him to come around and change a lightbulb for you.

lookinghere

Might be a simple fix

joeyboy12345

endacl wrote:

An airlocked heating system isn't a broken heating system. Simple to sort if you've access to Google. Expecting a londlord to fix it is up there with expecting him to come around and change a lightbulb for you.

Thank you for the reply, i dont know much about plumbing so excuse my lack of basic knowledge, how do i go about releaving it?

Neon_Lights

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

Thank you for the reply, i dont know much about plumbing so excuse my lack of basic knowledge, how do i go about releaving it?

You need:

1 google
1 hardware store
1 radiator key
A cloth (optional)
A tub for radiator excrement (optional)

endacl

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

Thank you for the reply, i dont know much about plumbing so excuse my lack of basic knowledge, how do i go about releaving it?

http://www.diyfixit.co.uk/central-heating/heating-air-lock.html

lookinghere

Neon_Lights wrote: »

You need:

1 google
1 hardware store
1 radiator key
A cloth (optional)
A tub for radiator excrement (optional)

very detailed haha

newacc2015

fh041205 wrote: »

Not having heating on is perfectly legitimate in my eyes.

What happens if OP was going away for 2 weeks and turned the heating off. It snowed and there was frost like the big freeze. For two winters in a row thousands of houses were destroyed as people turned off the heating and pipes burst. Not having the heating on for long periods of time in the middle of winter is a bit irresponsible

OP IMO this was not a repairs due the landlords fault or aged property, it was possible down to your actions. If the landlord is fair, maybe ask for him to split the bill ?

endacl

newacc2015 wrote: »

What happens if OP was going away for 2 weeks and turned the heating off. It snowed and there was frost like the big freeze. For two winters in a row thousands of houses were destroyed as people turned off the heating and pipes burst. Not having the heating on for long periods of time in the middle of winter is a bit irresponsible

OP IMO this was not a repairs due the landlords fault or aged property, it was possible down to your actions. If the landlord is fair, maybe ask for him to split the bill ?

The weather's been pretty mild this winter....

joeyboy12345

newacc2015 wrote:

What happens if OP was going away for 2 weeks and turned the heating off. It snowed and there was frost like the big freeze. For two winters in a row thousands of houses were destroyed as people turned off the heating and pipes burst. Not having the heating on for long periods of time in the middle of winter is a bit irresponsible

newacc2015 wrote:

OP IMO this was not a repairs due the landlords fault or aged property, it was possible down to your actions. If the landlord is fair, maybe ask for him to split the bill ?

Thank you for your point and i appreciate your input. Perhaps you are right and my actions were inapropriate! I must admit the heating is never on the timer,we usually just put it on when needed,perhaps that is something i should change! I just wanted to know what people thought!thank you all and thank you for the links, i will give it a go myself and see how i get on.

joeyboy12345

endacl wrote:

The weather's been pretty mild this winter....

Its for this reason that the heating hasnt been on the timer, plus the fact its an exceptionally warm apartment

davindub

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

Hi,
Having returned after the xmas to our rental property the gas heating wasnt working. I rang the E.A dealing with our lease to tell him the situation thinking he would send a plumber at the landlords expense. When i explained the problem he said the system was airlocked because i had turned the heating off over the xmas and therefore it was my issue to fix at my expense. I didnt argue as i didnt know where i stood. Is he right?

We have been renting this property the last 2 and a half years with no hassel and rent always paid early.

You have got to love these cowboy EA's.

Unless the EA has some higher sense of communication with electronical devices, he couldn't make that call over the phone. It might be common enough in some boilers set ups but given that yours was probably fine after the summer..

Do google how to reset the airlock, that's fair if you can manage it, but if you can't call the EA, google minimum standards for rental accommodation and RTB.

Lumen

Sounds like a ****ty heating system. I've never had heating stop working because I turned it off for a few days.

padd b1975

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

Theres no air in the rads, i opened the valves and no air came out! The heating was off for 4 or 5 days i suppose!

Sounds like the boiler has locked out due to there being low or zero pressure in the system, most likely because of air being vented through automatic air vents on the pipework or possibly a small undetected leak.

To be honest it's not something I'd advise someone with zero knowledge of tackling because the filling valve for a heating system can sometimes be difficult to locate and is possibly disconnected depending on type.

It's about an hours work for a plumber as long as there is no leaks.

Do not under any circumstances pay for this yourself.

listermint

Lumen wrote: »

Sounds like a ****ty heating system. I've never had heating stop working because I turned it off for a few days.

This whole heartedly


Are people implying the heating is to be run 365 days a year, if so i laugh in your face. I'll meet you in a pub buy you a pint but laugh in your face.

Heating system should not develop an airlock after a few days of non use.

When was this last serviced?

This is the landlords issue they are not qualified to say it stopped working because it was off. <mod snip>

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

sunny2004

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

Hi,
Having returned after the xmas to our rental property the gas heating wasnt working. I rang the E.A dealing with our lease to tell him the situation thinking he would send a plumber at the landlords expense. When i explained the problem he said the system was airlocked because i had turned the heating off over the xmas and therefore it was my issue to fix at my expense. I didnt argue as i didnt know where i stood. Is he right?

We have been renting this property the last 2 and a half years with no hassel and rent always paid early.

Is the agent a plumber ?

Anyone who thinks you can't switch off your heading for a few days without having a problem (especially with the mild Christmas) is an idiot.

Ignore the posters blaming you, it's laughable. They are neither plumbers or in possession of all the facts.

Once you have rules out its not an airlock in any of the radiators then Call the agent, tell him to inform the landlord as you are very cold at the property and the heating system isn't functioning.

joeyboy12345

Ive never had to deal with any major problems in the house as its in great condition so when i rang the E.A i kinda didnt know where i stood. I also didnt want to cause any hassel so i just took what he said for granted that it was my problem. It was only afterwards when i said it to the wife that she thought it shouldnt be our problem. By the way the boiler hasnt been serviced in the 2 and a half years weve been in the property. I definatly think thats the landlords issue and not mine.

listermint

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

Ive never had to deal with any major problems in the house as its in great condition so when i rang the E.A i kinda didnt know where i stood. I also didnt want to cause any hassel so i just took what he said for granted that it was my problem. It was only afterwards when i said it to the wife that she thought it shouldnt be our problem. By the way the boiler hasnt been serviced in the 2 and a half years weve been in the property. I definatly think thats the landlords issue and not mine.

I'd imagine they service it only when it breaks down at the tenants expense.


<Mod snip>

sassyj

I don't put gas heating on for months of the year and never had this issue. Chancer, follow up in writing requesting heating to be fixed.

joeyboy12345

There are some right geniuses popping up here............

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

Theres no air in the rads, i opened the valves and no air came out! The heating was off for 4 or 5 days i suppose!

Neon_Lights wrote: »

You need:

1 google
1 hardware store
1 radiator key
A cloth (optional)
A tub for radiator excrement (optional)

He said there's no air in the rads.

OP, get on to the EA and tell him the system isn't airlocked and to arrange a plumber, take no sh1t off the fncker.

The rubbish spouted in here about central heating systems becoming airlocked after a short period of not being used is almost refreshing as it clarifies most of the spouters will launch off a speel about whatever takes their fancy even when they obviously have no idea what they are talking about.

joeyboy12345

Augeo wrote:

There are some right geniuses popping up here............

In saying that i didnt bleed the pump so perhaps theres air in it??

When i turn the heating on the boiler fires up and you can see the flames through the looking glass. It stays on for about 2 to 3 mins and then cuts out if this gives any more indication as to what is happening.

Thanks to all for your input by the way!

TheChizler

Is there a low pressure indicator? If it's easy to find, there should be a pressure gauge where mains water is let into the system. This should be (probably around) 1.1 bar (should be written on the boiler). A valve near this can be used to adjust the pressure. It's a common cause of this sort of thing.

joeyboy12345

TheChizler wrote:

Is there a low pressure indicator? If it's easy to find, there should be a pressure gauge where mains water is let into the system. This should be (probably around) 1.1 bar (should be written on the boiler). A valve near this can be used to adjust the pressure. It's a common cause of this sort of thing.

Pressure is just above 1

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

dodzy

Neon_Lights wrote: »

Just bleed the radiators be grand like, no point causing a scene 😂

endacl wrote: »

An airlocked heating system isn't a broken heating system. Simple to sort if you've access to Google. Expecting a londlord to fix it is up there with expecting him to come around and change a lightbulb for you.

lookinghere wrote: »

Might be a simple fix

Neon_Lights wrote: »

You need:

1 google
1 hardware store
1 radiator key
A cloth (optional)
A tub for radiator excrement (optional)

endacl wrote: »

http://www.diyfixit.co.uk/central-heating/heating-air-lock.html

newacc2015 wrote: »

What happens if OP was going away for 2 weeks and turned the heating off. It snowed and there was frost like the big freeze. For two winters in a row thousands of houses were destroyed as people turned off the heating and pipes burst. Not having the heating on for long periods of time in the middle of winter is a bit irresponsible

OP IMO this was not a repairs due the landlords fault or aged property, it was possible down to your actions. If the landlord is fair, maybe ask for him to split the bill ?

Plenty of helpful responses around these parts. All full of sh*t.

OP. tell the EA it's not a bleeding issue. Under no circumstances should you be out of pocket here. And despite some of the ridiculous responses, you are under no obligation to leave the heating on if not required, on the off-chance that doing so may render the system un-useable.

Augeo nailed it.

punisher5112

Op very bad advice given by quite a few.

You need to ring ea or LL right away and also email or write a letter to either or both.

You need to only state heating is not working.

Has it been serviced in the time you are there if not do not use.

It needs to be serviced once a year and also if you don't have one get a carbon monoxide alarm right away.

Give them a few days to arrange a fix and if nothing keep contacting them with calls, emails and letters also texts are now also recognised for showing there are issues or that if ever needed to be followed up with court or RTB.

Paullimerick

Not a good sign. But not bad either. Sounds like to me it may be the pump stuck or something simple enough for a plumber. What area you located in the country

Kalimah

Here's my tuppence worth. We were away for two weeks in the summer a few years ago and came back to no heating. It's a gas system too. What had gone,and was a cheap fix in the end, was the thermo coupling which in my limited understanding fires up the boiler and keeps it fired. The gas engineer told us that with a period of non use the tips of the thermo coupling become carbonised and won't work anymore. We used the heating all year round for hot water- just turned off the rads and ran the heating for a hour once a day. I've never had an air locked system and I get my now 23 year old boiler serviced every year (mainly to keep it going )and for safety.

XsApollo

We have gas heating here with solar for water, the heating does be off for months during the year and no issues here.

thegills

There's the issue; EA versus LL. The LL probably pays the EA a monthly service fee to "manage and maintain" the property. The EA tries to do as little as possible in order to make more money from the monthly service fee so will deflect every issue raised; especially if they have a nice tenant who doesn't complain.

If the boiler has not been serviced annually then you're in the clear as the EA / LL is negligent and placing you and your family in danger. The carbon monoxide alarms are also the responsibility of the EA / LL as are fire blankets and fire extinguishers, etc. Unfortunately you are at risk as the tenant so you need to be firm here. The PRTB are a good place to go to understand your rights.

I would demand that the heating is fixed immediately and also report the EA / LL to the PRTB (assuming the house is registered) if the house is not up to expected standards.

I'm a LL by the way.

I would regularly have the heating completely off for 3 or 4 months at a time (off as in boiler not turned on whatsoever even for heating water) and it never caused a problem.

As an aside as some people are taking about yearly services. There is no requirement for yearly services, every two years is perfectly sufficient.

GreenFolder2

If a heating system "airlocks" after a few days of being off it has a major problem. It sounds to me like the system is either leaking or was never commissioned properly. Air doesn't just get into heating systems ... There has to be a hole somewhere.

Heating systems have automatic air vents or a header tank old non pressurised systems and normally remain completely full of water.

If you switched the heating off entirely for 6+ months you might need to run a few checks when firing it up again but normally the heating being off for a few days or even weeks shouldn't make any difference at all.

Your EA needs to their job and arrange for that system to be serviced and put into proper order. Pawning off maintenance issues on the tenant isn't fair and quite frankly is dangerous too. What if you now attempt to fix the system and do further damage? Who is responsible?

jd

Is the water pressure normal from all of the taps in the apartment?
Is it a gas combi boiler? Are there any visible warning b lights etc?

GreenFolder2

Paisley Bald Splint wrote: »

As an aside as some people are taking about yearly services. There is no requirement for yearly services, every two years is perfectly sufficient.

To cover yourself legally, if renting a property out, gas or oil burning appliances in particular need to be serviced annually. You've a risk of carbon monoxide leaks, particularly with older indoor boilers.

It's also advisable as a slow leak can do serious damage to a property or to the plumbing. The last thing you want in a heating system is water slowly topping up all the time. You fill a system and the water will pick up ions from the pipework and become saturated and stable (it usually has an inhibitor added too). If you keep adding fresh water it keeps absorbing ions from the pipes and radiators and introduces absorbed oxygen both of which will cause corrosion of the system over time.

mad m

Sometimes on a heating control there is a reset button, you have to push slider control all the way across and you will see a tiny black button, push it with a pen to reset system. If you have pressure in the system then its not down to a leak unless you top it up again and see does it drop.

Is it a pre pay gas card?

GreenFolder2

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

To cover yourself legally, if renting a property out, gas or oil burning appliances in particular need to be serviced annually. You've a risk of carbon monoxide leaks, particularly with older indoor boilers.

It's also advisable as a slow leak can do serious damage to a property or to the plumbing. The last thing you want in a heating system is water slowly topping up all the time. You fill a system and the water will pick up ions from the pipework and become saturated and stable (it usually has an inhibitor added too). If you keep adding fresh water it keeps absorbing ions from the pipes and radiators and introduces absorbed oxygen both of which will cause corrosion of the system over time.

There is no legal requirement in Ireland for yearly services.

The last place I was living the boiler hadn't been serviced in 10 years so after a year of living there I requested a service. Asking for another the following year would be total over kill imo as I wouldn't do it with my own boiler.

A2LUE42

Is there a release valve for the water pressure in your hot press? If you turn the heating on and then open the valve until the pressure returns to the level it should be at and then close the valve again. Do a Google for your boiler type and see what the pressure should be.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

jordata

Get back on to the EA. It is not unreasonable to expect heating can be turned on and off as needed. Are you expected to keep it on all Summer in case it becomes air locked? Do not attempt repairs yourself. Have a look at your contact regarding repairs - or check the Threshold website.

From threshold.ie
"Repairs and maintenance
The first thing you should do if there are repair or maintenance problems with your rented property is to contact your landlord or agent, preferably in
writing.
If your landlord refuses to carry out necessary repairs in a timely fashion, it is possible to get the work carried out yourself and you should be reimbursed by your landlord. Always inform your landlord that you intend to do this before you proceed, preferably in writing.
If your landlord does not carry out the necessary repairs in a reasonable timeframe, you can serve your landlord with a 28 day Notice of Termination on the grounds of failure of the landlord to meet their obligations.
You cannot alter or improve the property, including changing the locks, without the written permission of your landlord. Your landlord cannot unreasonably refuse requests by you to repair, paint or decorate the property."

Quote it to your EA.

Germancarfan

Leaving the gas running while the apartment was empty for a few days would have been more irresponsible than turning it off IMO.
This is the EA / LL's issue. Not yours. If you take any action and make it worse or break something else they will hold that against you.

The EA probably expects you to call a plumber at your expense, not take action yourself. I also agree that the EA is trying to protect their margin most likely. is the tenancy PRTB registered? http://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/check-if-a-tenancy-is-registered

The boiler should be serviced annually.
You should have carbon monoxide and smoke alarms - not sure on the fire blanket.

It's possible the LL does not know that the boiler isn't service if he is paying the EA for maintenance.
Have you any direct contact with the LL or is it the EA only?
Who is your tenancy signed by ? the EA or the LL?

IvyTheTerrible

We leave our heating off for at least 6 months of the year and it works when we switch it back on.
It's frankly bull that you have to have heating on every day to keep it working.

jsd1004

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

To cover yourself legally, if renting a property out, gas or oil burning appliances in particular need to be serviced annually. You've a risk of carbon monoxide leaks, particularly with older indoor boilers.

It's also advisable as a slow leak can do serious damage to a property or to the plumbing. The last thing you want in a heating system is water slowly topping up all the time. You fill a system and the water will pick up ions from the pipework and become saturated and stable (it usually has an inhibitor added too). If you keep adding fresh water it keeps absorbing ions from the pipes and radiators and introduces absorbed oxygen both of which will cause corrosion of the system over time.

Wrong. There is no legal requirement for a landlord to service a boiler annually.

athtrasna

Mod note

This is not the plumbing and heating forum. The only relevant issue for discussion in this forum is the landlord's responsibility (or lack thereof) to remedy the situation.

Thanks

Stealthfins

jsd1004 wrote:

Wrong. There is no legal requirement for a landlord to service a boiler annually.

Who's the owner of the boiler ?

Is it not up to the landlord to cut the grass and maintain the property to the highest standard.

Is it up to guests in a hotel to service a boiler ?

Germancarfan

Stealthfins wrote: »

Who's the owner of the boiler?

Is it not up to the landlord to cut the grass and maintain the property to the highest standard.

Is it up to guests in a hotel to service a boiler?

No, it's up to the landlord to maintain the property to a minimum standard which is enforced by local authorities. Heating and access to hot and cold water are one of those standards.

OP you have 3 routes here in my opinion.

1 - Insist with the LL/EA that they call a plumber/heating engineer or agree up front that the costs will be covered.
2 - call a plumber get if fixed then ask the LL to pay the bill after the fact.
3 - Suck it up and cover it yourself then forget about it.

1 would be my personal choice. 2 if you fancy a fight after the fact. 3 if you just want an easy life

Michael D Not Higgins

Germancarfan wrote: »

this is the SI that covers the standards should you require it

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/534/made/en/print

jsd1004 wrote: »

It is wrong. There is NO legal requirement in this country for a domestic landlord to service a working boiler. Your advice or anyones recommendations is not the law.

It comes down to interpretation of the wording. There is no specific requirement to service the boiler, however the standards for rented housing require that installations for the supply of gas (up to interpretation whether this includes the boiler) shall be maintained in good repair (i.e. working) and safe working order (i.e. not malfunctioning in an unsafe way).

It could be argued that the landlord is remiss in his duties by not conducting services to the boiler as it cannot be confirmed that the boiler is in safe working order.

Again, this is only interpretation but if I had gas in Ireland in rented accommodation, I'd be asking for a service every couple of years. As it is, I had a new boiler when I moved into my flat in the UK and it has been serviced each year as required by law even though this is overkill for a brand new boiler.

OP, as to your issue, since you have done some simple checks of airlock, etc. it's time to call the agent again. You are not responsible for fixing anything beyond a basic check which you have already done.

GreenFolder2

It's not overkill by any means. A blocked flue on a boiler or damage to the casing can result in carbon monoxide getting into the room.

In general, Ireland is behind the times on these kinds of basic regulations.

You're talking a 15-20 min job once a year to prevent issues .

It'll also identify problems with leaks, pressurisation, timers, thermostats etc which if allowed to go on can damage the system or the house - slow leaks, corroded heating systems etc etc.

It's fairly short-sighted of any householder or landlord not to get those things checked over once a year.

Most countries in Northern Europe also require a less frequent, periodic inspection or electrical installations to ensure things are safe.