Molasses beet pulp in ration

Siamsa Sessions

Hi all,

We'll be starting to mix our own ration for in-lamb ewes next week. It'll be approx.

• 50% rolled barley
• 30% molasses beet pulp
• 20% soya bean meal

The beet pulp comes in pellet/nut form and you have to soak it before feeding.

Would it be safe to assume you weigh out your beet pulp after it's soaked?

Thanks.

Username John

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Hi all,

We'll be starting to mix our own ration for in-lamb ewes next week. It'll be approx.

• 50% rolled barley
• 30% molasses beet pulp
• 20% soya bean meal

The beet pulp comes in pellet/nut form and you have to soak it before feeding.

Would it be safe to assume you weigh out your beet pulp after it's soaked?

Thanks.

I would have assumed dry weight - as the other items are dry...

If you weigh it wet, it wouldn't be 30% as a good % of the weight of the wet pulp would be water...

But... that's entirely a guess... which isn't much help to you...

Siamsa Sessions

Username John wrote: »

I would have assumed dry weight - as the other items are dry...

If you weigh it wet, it wouldn't be 30% as a good % of the weight of the wet pulp would be water...

But... that's entirely a guess... which isn't much help to you...

Thanks John. Your assumption is as good as mine!

We're not set up (yet) for bulk delivery so buying 25kg bags. It'd be easier to mix it if it was measured wet, but you're probably right about the water content diluting the % protein.

Any other opinions?

rangler1

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Thanks John. Your assumption is as good as mine!

We're not set up (yet) for bulk delivery so buying 25kg bags. It'd be easier to mix it if it was measured wet, but you're probably right about the water content diluting the % protein.

Any other opinions?

The ration would be reffering to dry weight
who advised wetting it,, that sounds wrong,
you'll also need a good sheep mineral in the ration

stantheman1979

No oats in the mix!! Oats are excellent for sheep. If youre making a home mix it would be a mistake to leave it out. also youve no minerals included IMO

Hagimalone

What in your opinion would be a good ration mix?

148multi

Me thinks you only need to wet beet pulp for horses, but I may be wrong. It would be a great mix with oats, pulp, soya bean, minerals. Let us know how you get on.

Siamsa Sessions

Hadn't given minerals much thought to be honest, as we'll be giving them cobalt at 4 weeks pre-lambing when they'll get their clostridia vaccine plus they'll continue to have a mineral bucket.

What else should be included in the ration, on top of this?

Re oats: would you swap them in for some of the barley?

This is our first year proper to be lambing down ewes so any advice would be welcome.

Thanks.

kk.man

I am amazed at all the fellas mixing up ration...do they factor in time, labour,messing about and hardship. Same for root crops.Think you would need to be a big operator to make it pay. What wrong with bulk collect at your nearest grain merchants. I am not in anyway connected to the grain business.

stantheman1979

A mix of 40% barley, 40% oats, 20% soya and the minerals would do the business. a lot cheaper than buying ration.

Username John

I'd agree with KK.man - why not just buy a pre mixed sheep ration?
Especially if you're only buying in 25kg bags?

148multi

Personally would cut out barley and feed whole oats +pulp +soya+minerals, hardier lambs, easer to lamb, quicker to get up and less chance of digestive upsets in ewes with oats.

Siamsa Sessions

We plan to mix our own for cost reasons mostly.

It's about €2-3 per 25kg bag in the difference. We'll be mixing it once a week for the following week. Working part-time means this suits us better.

Did it for lambs in Nov and Dec and it worked out well.

Still not sure what minerals to add thou?

kk.man

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

We plan to mix our own for cost reasons mostly.

It's about €2-3 per 25kg bag in the difference. We'll be mixing it once a week for the following week. Working part-time means this suits us better.

Did it for lambs in Nov and Dec and it worked out well.

Still not sure what minerals to add thou?

Isn't that the saving you would make on bulk collected with minerals included?

Username John

Fair enough on the cost front...

If twas me, I'd prob go dry ingredients - (Prob oats, barley, soya)... the only reason is twould be easier to give it out em..

If the pulp was wet, I'd be afraid twould kinda come out in balls into the trough, and some ewes would get a right feed of it and some wouldn't get much... but, I could be totally wrong to say that... (I only remember it being fed to cattle years ago when I was small, and it was just a mush that had to be put into troughs separately and then barley on top)

ganmo

never heard of wetting beet pulp before and if you're making it once a week it'll lead to problems

the merchant sellin ya the straights should have a bag of powder minerals with an inclusion rate of about 2.5% that or bucket minerals
cobalt alone won't cut it, ya need selenium, iodine and manganese at the least

rangler1

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

We plan to mix our own for cost reasons mostly.

It's about €2-3 per 25kg bag in the difference. We'll be mixing it once a week for the following week. Working part-time means this suits us better.

Did it for lambs in Nov and Dec and it worked out well.

Still not sure what minerals to add thou?

There's powdered minerals available in 25kg bag for farmer that mix their own rations, Companies like Agritech supply specific powdered sheep minerals.
Big difference in mixing rations for fattening lambs and mixing for inlamb ewes......it's too late finding you got it wrong when they start lambing.... even including minerals has to be mixed properly, admittedly a loader bucket would do the job if you turned it often enough .
Like previous posters I'd say if you priced it properly, Bulk sheep ration won't be that much dearer than what you're planning

Lano Lynn

there is no need to wet beet pulp just make sure there is good water supply.
on the subject of oats if your sheep are fat feed oats if you want to waste money.

Oats was popular for feeding sheep in the past when a few ewes wandered around farms because it was safe to feed in that it does not cause acidocis mainly because it has relativly low energy content.its main nutritional benifit over other grains is that it has a slightly higher oil based vitamin content.
the best oats goes to make porridge the next goes to horses and the sh1t that is left get put in sheep rations.
over priced and overrated.

barley wheat and maize can cause acidocis if feed level are increased too rapidly but the inclusion of beet pulp will help nuetralise the ration.

Sheep breeder

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

We plan to mix our own for cost reasons mostly.

It's about €2-3 per 25kg bag in the difference. We'll be mixing it once a week for the following week. Working part-time means this suits us better.

Did it for lambs in Nov and Dec and it worked out well.

Still not sure what minerals to add thou?

Just wondering what price is it working out at per bag.

Siamsa Sessions

Great discussion - thanks for all the contributions. A few things for context I suppose:

* The beet pulp is molasses beet pulp and comes in pellets - you have to soak it or the sheep/lambs will have trouble digesting it. When its soaked overnight, it looks "fluffy" in the morning and is ideal to mix in with barley and whatever else you might be adding.

* We're in an area where sheep aren't that plentiful, so local merchants don't have many options for anything sheep related - none of them make up mixes or have bulk available. And we're not set up for bulk delivery anyway

I'll give Agritech a shout re minerals - thanks for that.

Re costs: mixing it ourselves is approx. €6.50/25kg and pre-mixed is over €9/25kg (can't remember exact price now). So, per tonne it's €260 vs €360. As I said, we're in a non-sheep area so options are limited.

I'm no glutton for punishment and would always prefer the easier option, but €100/tonne means we'll be mixing ourselves.

ganmo

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Great discussion - thanks for all the contributions. A few things for context I suppose:

* The beet pulp is molasses beet pulp and comes in pellets - you have to soak it or the sheep/lambs will have trouble digesting it. When its soaked overnight, it looks "fluffy" in the morning and is ideal to mix in with barley and whatever else you might be adding.

* We're in an area where sheep aren't that plentiful, so local merchants don't have many options for anything sheep related - none of them make up mixes or have bulk available. And we're not set up for bulk delivery anyway

I'll give Agritech a shout re minerals - thanks for that.

Re costs: mixing it ourselves is approx. €6.50/25kg and pre-mixed is over €9/25kg (can't remember exact price now). So, per tonne it's €260 vs €360. As I said, we're in a non-sheep area so options are limited.

I'm no glutton for punishment and would always prefer the easier option, but €100/tonne means we'll be mixing ourselves.

There's plenty of options to get powdered minerals...inform, nutribio, Provimi, David taylor, trouw or Devenish depending on who's in your area

Siamsa Sessions

ganmo wrote: »

There's plenty of options to get powdered minerals...inform, nutribio, Provimi, David taylor, trouw or Devenish depending on who's in your area

Thanks - I might try one or two agents and see what they say too

grassroot1

stantheman1979 wrote: »

A mix of 40% barley, 40% oats, 20% soya and the minerals would do the business. a lot cheaper than buying ration.

A recipe for accidosis, a fibre source would be required

rangler1

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Great discussion - thanks for all the contributions. A few things for context I suppose:

* The beet pulp is molasses beet pulp and comes in pellets - you have to soak it or the sheep/lambs will have trouble digesting it. When its soaked overnight, it looks "fluffy" in the morning and is ideal to mix in with barley and whatever else you might be adding.

* We're in an area where sheep aren't that plentiful, so local merchants don't have many options for anything sheep related - none of them make up mixes or have bulk available. And we're not set up for bulk delivery anyway

I'll give Agritech a shout re minerals - thanks for that.

Re costs: mixing it ourselves is approx. €6.50/25kg and pre-mixed is over €9/25kg (can't remember exact price now). So, per tonne it's €260 vs €360. As I said, we're in a non-sheep area so options are limited.

I'm no glutton for punishment and would always prefer the easier option, but €100/tonne means we'll be mixing ourselves.

,

I see your point, ewe ration here 285/ ton delivered in bags.
A good ration that I've been using with straw for the last 10 years

rangler1

grassroot1 wrote: »

A recipe for accidosis, a fibre source would be required

Oats is high fibre isn't it, only needs to be 7% fibre in the ration

grassroot1

my apologies misread the barley inclusion would rather see beep pulp in the mix but as above why would you mix yourself. It is very difficult to get the mineral inclusion rate correct

orm0nd

One point to remember is that barley quality is very iffy this year. Even some of by products are testing superior.

stantheman1979

kk.man wrote: »

I am amazed at all the fellas mixing up ration...do they factor in time, labour,messing about and hardship. Same for root crops.Think you would need to be a big operator to make it pay. What wrong with bulk collect at your nearest grain merchants. I am not in anyway connected to the grain business.

We save 40/50 a tonne mixing our own. When you've 850 ewes to lamb and 140 sucklers to calve that's a saving of about 3/4000. Its not a big job mixing it with the teleporter half an hour would have it mixed and in the bin.
Also i was sent to work in a very well known grain merchants in my farm relief days. Pigeons rats everywhere and if you knew what goes into the mixes you wouldn't dream of feeding them to stock.

rangler1

stantheman1979 wrote: »

We save 40/50 a tonne mixing our own. When you've 850 ewes to lamb and 140 sucklers to calve that's a saving of about 3/4000. Its not a big job mixing it with the teleporter half an hour would have it mixed and in the bin.
Also i was sent to work in a very well known grain merchants in my farm relief days. Pigeons rats everywhere and if you knew what goes into the mixes you wouldn't dream of feeding them to stock.

I did it for years here too, always considered it a pain compared to picking up a bag, and when you consider that 40% plus of what you save goes in tax, well there's very little incentive....at the time i reckoned i was saving 2000 minus tax...not much pay considering the hardship

stantheman1979

rangler1 wrote: »

I did it for years here too, always considered it a pain compared to picking up a bag, and when you consider that 40% plus of what you save goes in tax, well there's very little incentive....at the time i reckoned i was saving 2000 minus tax...not much pay considering the hardship

I always respect what you say and you have a point but what i meant was that i saved that money to spend somewhere else on the place. It didnt go directly into my pocket. My main point though was the ****e that goes into mixes at the merchants. Thats the main reason i mix it myself as i want control over what im feeding

Green farmer

[quote="Siamsa Sessions;102133284

* We're in an area where sheep aren't that plentiful, so local merchants don't have many options for anything sheep related - none of them make up mixes or have bulk available. And we're not set up for bulk delivery anyway

Re costs: mixing it ourselves is approx. €6.50/25kg and pre-mixed is over €9/25kg (can't remember exact price now). So, per tonne it's €260 vs €360. As I said, we're in a non-sheep area so options are limited.

.[/quote]




im in Midwest and get a really good 18% bagged ewe and lamb ration for €268 a tonne. Don't know what part your in, so don't know if it's of any use to you.

Robson99

rangler1 wrote: »

There's powdered minerals available in 25kg bag for farmer that mix their own rations, Companies like Agritech supply specific powdered sheep minerals.
Big difference in mixing rations for fattening lambs and mixing for inlamb ewes...

As a matter of interest what mix would lads use for ad-lib fatteningng of store lambs???
Bagged ration and nut are 320 per tonne. Usually add rolled barley to last at approx 33% to reduce cost to approx 270 per tonne

ganmo

Ration we're gettin is 260 delivered in big bags

Siamsa Sessions

Green farmer wrote: »

im in Midwest and get a really good 18% bagged ewe and lamb ration for €268 a tonne. Don't know what part your in, so don't know if it's of any use to you.

Thanks for that but we're in the south-east.

kk.man

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Thanks for that but we're in the south-east.

Surely between Glanbia, Quinns Depots and Connolly's you are not far from a grain store?

Sheep breeder

We are feeding high energy 20 per cent at 285 tonne left in the yard in half tonne bags. As for merchants in the south east they are ten a penny, conney furlong, Bolger, glanbia etc to try mix for 25 kg bags is serious hard work.
We believe in shopping around each year for best price for best ration.

Green farmer

Sheep breeder wrote: »

We are feeding high energy 20 per cent at 285 tonne left in the yard in half tonne bags.

.

How do you find the 20% stuff ? Tried it here before near lambing, but found it was growing the lambs abit too big, swapped back to 18% and found it better. Again could have just been coincidence .

Siamsa Sessions

Sheep breeder wrote: »

We are feeding high energy 20 per cent at 285 tonne left in the yard in half tonne bags. As for merchants in the south east they are ten a penny, conney furlong, Bolger, glanbia etc to try mix for 25 kg bags is serious hard work.
We believe in shopping around each year for best price for best ration.

Sound. Will get numbers for them today and ring around. As I said, we're new to sheep and we're not in a traditional sheep area (mostly dairy) so it's taking a little while to find suppliers

Siamsa Sessions

Thanks to the very useful contributors to this thread, I have 2 decent options now:

1) 18% ration for €310/ton

2) 20% ration for €280/ton

Both incl. delivery to the yard in 25kg bags.

The 20% man made an interesting point. The ewes are in good condition and are getting fodder beet at the moment. He said to cut back on the beet in case they get too fat and his 20% mix would meet their requirements.

Does this make sense or is he just trying to sell his product?

razor8

What's the top 4 ingredients in the rations. Lots of poor 18% rations on the market

Siamsa Sessions

razor8 wrote: »

What's the top 4 ingredients in the rations. Lots of poor 18% rations on the market

Good question. I'll check with both of them. What "should" a man be looking out for?

charolais0153

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Good question. I'll check with both of them. What "should" a man be looking out for?

Soya bean should be in top 3 or 4

razor8

I like to see soya in top 2 along with maize barley