12 points-license gone

thestar

I just bought insurance and declared 2 points which I had nearly forgotten about. My premium increased as a result but it got me thinking.

I got two points for being on my phone and this offence has now gone up to three points. It got me thinking that if ones job involved a lot of driving, one would not be king having 12.

Is there any discretion ever shown from judges or is there even a court appearence if you get 12 points?

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

thestar

jacksie66 wrote:

If a person manages to rack up 12 points then they deserve to be put off the road..

Most offences are 3 points now, eady to have 12 I think

hullaballoo

Penalty points are an administrative sanction that is implemented by the RSA and have absolutely nothing to do with the Courts/Judiciary.

Ken.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Penalty-points/How-it-works-why-it-matters/

How does the system work?

Penalty point offences are recorded on your driving licence record if:

You are convicted of a driving offence that attracts penalty points, or
You are served with a fixed charge notice for an alleged offence that attracts penalty points and you opt to pay the fine rather than having the matter referred to the courts
Any driver accumulating 12 penalty points within any given three-year period will be automatically disqualified from driving for six months. A lower threshold of 7 penalty points leading to disqualification applies to any driver taking out a first learner permit on or after 1 August 2014 while he or she drives under any learner permit and subsequently during the first two years while he or she is driving under a full driving licence. Where a driver has a foreign licence a record will be created and the penalty points recorded on that record.

The driver is required to surrender his/her Irish or foreign driving licence to the National Driver Licence Service within 10 days of disqualification commencing. It is an offence not to surrender a licence. It is also an offence to drive while disqualified.


The bit I bolded seems to suggest that there is no discretion or court appearance.

JeffKenna

12 points isnt that much. Get caught speeding 4 times in 3 years and you're off the road.

Once a year really?

livedadream

Stop speeding, stop texting and talking on the phone and don't worry about it.
They exist for a reason. It's perfectly reasonable to expect someone to not speed or be using a phone or any of the other offences that carry three points if your caught once cop on, three times in three years is ridiculous.

thestar

livedadream wrote:

Stop speeding, stop texting and talking on the phone and don't worry about it. They exist for a reason. It's perfectly reasonable to expect someone to not speed or be using a phone or any of the other offences that carry three points if your caught once cop on, three times in three years is ridiculous.

Roger that. However I didn't ask for a lecture

Mod
You got a civil answer to your query. No need for rudeness

realdanbreen

thestar wrote: »

Roger that. However I didn't ask for a lecture

It wasn't a lecture it was/is common sense.

thestar

I'm just making the point that if your driving for a living I don't think one would have to be a wreckless driver to clock up 12 points in 3 years.

I appreciate that these mesures are in place to save lives and thats the most important thing

endacl

thestar wrote: »

Most offences are 3 points now, eady to have 12 I think

Also pretty easy to have none...

Denny_Crane

Driving a lot = higher standard = no reason to have more points than someone who drives less often.

Phones aren't about a standard of driving. A standard of driving is accidentally going over the limit or doing something silly that lands you a few points like stopping in a yellow box. The phone is a conscious choice to do something incredibly stupid. I sincerely hope Ireland follows the UK in seriously considering life sentences for people who cause death by dangerous driving.

It's such an avoidable problem, handsfree kits are a common feature or peanuts to buy.

thestar wrote: »

I'm just making the point that if your driving for a living I don't think one would have to be a wreckless driver to clock up 12 points in 3 years.

I appreciate that these mesures are in place to save lives and thats the most important thing

Quite literally millions of people across the UK and Ireland manage it.

the_syco

thestar wrote: »

I'm just making the point that if your driving for a living I don't think one would have to be a wreckless driver to clock up 12 points in 3 years.

Here's someone that texted whilst driving a truck;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxJFR9yGYXY

My point is that if you're unable to follow the rules of the road, perhaps you shouldn't be on it.

thestar

Are hands free kits easy to install danny crane?

Denny_Crane

thestar wrote: »

Are hands free kits easy to install danny crane?

Very. Plug it in job done. Many Sat Navs come with them, you can get a headset or traditional style dock thing. The majority of new cars come fitted with Bluetooth, I don't even think about it the phone and car pair automatically and have done for years. This is in a small, eight year old car.

The very best thing you can do though is simply feck the thing into the glove compartment and forget about it.

AndyBoBandy

thestar wrote: »

I'm just making the point that if your driving for a living I don't think one would have to be a wreckless driver to clock up 12 points in 3 years

If you drive for a living and you get 12 points and banned you deserve it <<Mod deletion>>.

Imagine needing to drive for your job and getting put off the road for driving like a tool.

Great for the rest of us <<Mod deletion>>

Mod
Pls keep it civil

OP: Apologies, I wasnt directing those comments at OP/anyone in particular, I was speaking in general of anyone who accumulated the 12 points.

Denny_Crane

https://www.amazon.co.uk/MULTIPOINT-Bluetooth-Handsfree-Speakerphone-Smartphones/dp/B00SSM6L4Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483314825&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=hands+free&psc=1

JamboMac

thestar wrote: »

I'm just making the point that if your driving for a living I don't think one would have to be a wreckless driver to clock up 12 points in 3 years.

I appreciate that these mesures are in place to save lives and thats the most important thing

If your job depends on driving shouldn't you take more care, look at the truck driver who was changing the song on his phone 20 seconds later he killed 3/4 family members while the rest of the family watched on in horror from another car.

If you had a higher treshold then you would have more people acting the gob****e. Driving for 3 years and 0 points have gone over the speed limit at times yes but i correct because i pay attention. Quite frankly injuring or killing yourself is one thing, but being responsible for ruining somebody elses life is that worth the risk of a phone call, seriously.

ED E

I'd be of the opinion that anyone driving for work should receive double points. If its your profession being the best driver possible should be easy.


Recently spotted a Petroleum tanker (Read bomb on wheels) texting and driving 30ft from a member of AGS. Wish I'd got a picture.

mycro2013

Denny_Crane wrote: »

Driving a lot = higher standard = no reason to have more points than someone who drives less often.

I would be of the opinion that all road users should be of an equal level of competency, which is not directly proportional to kilometres travelled per annum. If any road user uses the above excuse they have no business using public highways.

Denny_Crane

mycro2013 wrote: »

I would be of the opinion that all road users should be of an equal level of competency, which is not directly proportional to kilometres travelled per annum. If any road user uses the above excuse they have no business using public highways.

Minimum standard not equal.

You can't expect someone who drives once a month to have the same standard of skill as someone who drives 7 days a week. However you can expect the person who drives 7 days a week to have more experience and a greater level of skill. You can expect the person who drives once a month to meet the minimum standard though and drive within their level of skill.

Along with absolutely dire hazard perception it's a common fault amongst motorists in Ireland to expect everyone on the road to have an arbitrary level of confidence and skill. Sometimes one has to simply accept that driving through Clontarf and Raheny,for example, one encounters people of a certain age, who can still drive and will probably never be involved in an accident, but that are going to hesitate a bit more than one would like.

K.Flyer

thestar wrote: »

Are hands free kits easy to install danny crane?

Dead easy, get a blue tooth earpiece that pops into your ear and a phone cradle stuck to windscreen.
Phone rings, see number, tap your earpiece to answer the call, tap again to end call.
20 - 30 euro for a good quality one.
Garda have no issue with them.

Atlantic Dawn

Talking on your phone when driving is a <<imprudent>> thing to be doing, <<mod deletion>>

Mod
amended this post
Pls keep it civil here

K.Flyer

JeffKenna wrote: »

12 points isnt that much. Get caught speeding 4 times in 3 years and you're off the road.

Once a year really?

Get caught 4 times in the one day and you will be off the road!

K.Flyer

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Talking on your phone when driving is a tool thing to be doing, something only a backward would do.

I spend a lot of time working in and around Dublin and the amount of people who still hold a phone to their ear while driving is unreal, all sorts, all types of vehicles.

Atlantic Dawn

K.Flyer wrote: »

I spend a lot of time working in and around Dublin and the amount of people who still hold a phone to their ear while driving is unreal, all sorts, all types of vehicles.

Yes there has to be a good 20% plus of drivers who have no issue taking a call at the wheel, I see it every single day, perhaps 6 points is needed where if your thick enough to be caught twice your off the road.

oppenheimer1

Denny_Crane wrote: »

Driving a lot = higher standard = no reason to have more points than someone who drives less often.

Phones aren't about a standard of driving. A standard of driving is accidentally going over the limit or doing something silly that lands you a few points like stopping in a yellow box. The phone is a conscious choice to do something incredibly stupid. I sincerely hope Ireland follows the UK in seriously considering life sentences for people who cause death by dangerous driving.

It's such an avoidable problem, handsfree kits are a common


Quite literally millions of people across the UK and Ireland manage it.

You mean get away with it. The only drivers on the road that have never speeded are the ones going out on their first drive.

The reason most people don't have huge points is not because they obey the limits all the time, it's because they haven't been caught.

jacksie66 wrote: »

If a person manages to rack up 12 points then they deserve to be put off the road..

Don't be so sanctimonious. I bet if I followed you for a day I'd be able to nab you speeding more than four times.

the_pen_turner

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

You mean get away with it. The only drivers on the road that have never speeded are the ones going out on their first drive.

The reason most people don't have huge points is not because they obey the limits all the time, it's because they haven't been caught.




Don't be so sanctimonious. I bet if I followed you for a day I'd be able to nab you speeding more than four times.

I'm sure you could. Easily find 4 times everybody breaks the law everyday. But there is a difference between marginal speeding and talking on the phone or dangerous driving

Denny_Crane

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

You mean get away with it. The only drivers on the road that have never speeded are the ones going out on their first drive.

The reason most people don't have huge points is not because they obey the limits all the time, it's because they haven't been caught.

It all factors in. Enforcement is never 100%, I doubt it's even 0.01% in Ireland which only underscores the point, 12 points in three years - you're driving like a muppett.

As for get away with it, the UK has loads of average speed cameras, there enforcement is much, much higher than Ireland, yet people still manage.

BattleCorp

Could it be argued that the lower penalty point limit for novice drivers is unfair?

After all, novice drivers have sat and passed their driving test, which is more than can be said for all experienced drivers, some of whom were given their licences years ago without having to sit a driving test.

ohnonotgmail

BattleCorp wrote: »

Could it be argued that the lower penalty point limit for novice drivers is unfair?

they also have a lower drink driving limit. do you think that is unfair?

BattleCorp wrote: »

After all, novice drivers have sat and passed their driving test, which is more than can be said for all experienced drivers, some of whom were given their licences years ago without having to sit a driving test.

the number of those drivers is about 1% of the currently licenced drivers. If a novice driver cant keep their nose clean for 2 years they dont deserve a licence.

AndyBoBandy

BattleCorp wrote: »

Could it be argued that the lower penalty point limit for novice drivers is unfair?

After all, novice drivers have sat and passed their driving test, which is more than can be said for all experienced drivers, some of whom were given their licences years ago without having to sit a driving test.

Some of the worst driving I have seen in the last few months was in cars displaying an N plate.

I would propose the exact opposite argument to your point. N drivers perhaps feel invincible as they have just passed a test, and consider themselves experts.

Kimbot

thestar wrote: »

I'm just making the point that if your driving for a living I don't think one would have to be a wreckless driver to clock up 12 points in 3 years.

I appreciate that these mesures are in place to save lives and thats the most important thing

I cover about 50,000+ miles a year. I havent had points in approx 8 years so its pretty easy to not get any.

Mr E

Same. Driving 16 years, probably up to 30,000km a year, no points.

Put the phone down, keep to the speed limits, pay your Tax/Insurance/NCT and don't drive recklessly - you'll be fine.

Stealthfins

AndyBoBandy wrote:

Some of the worst driving I have seen in the last few months was in cars displaying an N plate.

That's true, I have seen atrocious driving with n plates.

They haven't a clue about roundabouts and some pass out on the inside on the motorway.
Doing 130 to pass out someone doing 120 on the fast lane.

Stealthfins

Stealthfins wrote: »

That's true, I have seen atrocious driving with n plates.

They haven't a clue about roundabouts and some pass out on the inside on the motorway.
Doing 130 to pass out someone doing 120 on the fast lane.

No such thing as a fast lane and you should not be in that overtaking lane if there is no traffic to your left and you are not overtaking.

Pull left and let traffic proceed safely.


The amount of times this needs to be stated here is insane

Kimbot

Stealthfins wrote: »

That's true, I have seen atrocious driving with n plates.

They haven't a clue about roundabouts and some pass out on the inside on the motorway.
Doing 130 to pass out someone doing 120 on the fast lane.

In fairness the worst driver I have been around over the past few months didnt have "N" plates up. Actually this morning at Tullamore I was on a 2lane roundabout and the car on my left decided that they wanted my lane on the right to take the left turn nearly running me off the road. When I looked over it was an older woman and no "N" or "L" plate anywhere to be seen. Most of the bad drivers I see are 30ish to 40.

jezzer

jacksie66 wrote: »

If a person manages to rack up 12 points then they deserve to be put off the road..

<<Mod
abusive rant deleted. Pls do not post rants here again>>

NIMAN

JeffKenna wrote: »

12 points isnt that much. Get caught speeding 4 times in 3 years and you're off the road.

Once a year really?

I've been driving 22years and have zero points. It is possible.

I agree if you get 12 in a year you don't deserve to be on the road.

Kimbot

jezzer wrote: »

MMod
Abusive rant deleted

Hey I agree with the cahp and I drive all the time, people need to cop on that limits are there for a reason and if you make the concious decision to break them then you have to take the punishment its plain and simple!!

ohnonotgmail

jezzer wrote: »

thats ea<<rant deleted>>:

As a couple of high mileage drivers have already said it really isnt that difficult to avoid penalty points.

ETA: if you haven't copped on after being caught 3 times then the problem is you not some "snake" of a garda.

NIMAN

jezzer wrote: »

t

So how do you explain me driving 22 years (say approx 300,000 miles) and never getting a point.

Do you just think I'm incredibly lucky?

cbreeze

There are many more distracting things in cars than phones, such as a scalding coffee (drop that in your lap and you are seriously distracted!) or a bee or a wasp that gets in the window.

I wonder why, instead of increasing the penalty points for mobile phone use, the Garda don't just confiscate the phones and the miscreant can collect from the station when the officer returns from shift.

oppenheimer1

NIMAN wrote: »

So how do you explain me driving 22 years (say approx 300,000 miles) and never getting a point.

Do you just think I'm incredibly lucky?

Or you know where the speed traps are.

Are you asking us to believe you've never put a foot wrong, made a mistake or drifted over the limit, where if a garda was watching you wouldn't have been pulled in 22 years?

I've been driving 15 years and I've never gotten points or a ticket, but I know my driving isn't perfect either.

TimeToShine

I don’t really think people who use their Micra to potter down the road to the shop or 20km to work talking about how "easy" it is not to rack up points is very fair. I agree that talking on the phone is something that should be practically obsolete now what with the vast array of car holders and loud speakers available but speeding is a completely different matter. There are literally hundreds of roads in the country with ridiculous speed limits and gardai setting up shop to catch you doing 65 on a straight open road with no junctions. Public transport in this country is dreadful meaning cars are a huge and arguably pivotal part of our lives and with our Agricultural history we tend to draw a few more motoring enthusiasts than other countries. As well as dealing with scandalous insurance prices to buy a nice car you’re practically punished for luxury. A 2.5L car would hit 140km/h on the motorway without breaking a sweat – you’d hardly realise it’s happening yet this is 25% of your quota already. Throw in speed vans on the back roads at inopportune times and before you know it you’ve 9 points. I don’t think speeding is necessarily acceptable but when we build our motorways to the same standard as the Germans it might be a good idea to do away with our archaic speed limits and try and accommodate to some extent what more modern cars are comfortably capable of.

I actually have zero points by the way but I consider this to be down to luck more than anything else.

AndyBoBandy

TimeToShine wrote: »

talking on the phone is something that should be practically obsolete now

By far the most common offence out there. by far.

Kimbot

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

By far the most common offence out there. by far.

And with advances in tech most cars have bluetooth in them by default. Yet most people cant be arsed to read the manual and set their phone up on it.

AndyBoBandy

jonnycivic wrote: »

And with advances in tech most cars have bluetooth in them by default. Yet most people cant be arsed to read the manual and set their phone up on it.

you don't even need to read a manual these days, in the last 12 months I've driven about 30 rental cars, and each time I was able to connect to the bluetooth in a matter of seconds (admittedly most of the rentals were Audi,BMW or Mercedes, and once you've done it once, its the same every time, but still, from time to time I get a non premium German brand and it's still relatively easy to connect to bluetooth)

Denny_Crane

Unlike Andy my rental experiances are far more pedestrian (almost literally). Fiat, Hyundai, Ford even a Megan once. etc. Connected to Bluetooth inside 2 minutes.

oppenheimer1

Denny_Crane wrote: »

Unlike Andy my rental experiances are far more pedestrian (almost literally). Fiat, Hyundai, Ford even a Megan once. etc. Connected to Bluetooth inside 2 minutes.

That can even be too much to ask for non technically minded people. Unless the handfree is able to pair with the phone automatically without any user input then you'll have this friction that prevents people from using hands free.

And into the mix the perception that Bluetooth drains battery quickly and there is a lot of natural resistance to using hands free from the normal joe soap.

Either hands free needs to be made a lot easier or using a phone in the hand a lot harder (say through mandatory blocking/jamming technology) you will still see people using phones whilst driving.

Enforcement won't work because there is not enough of it.

CramCycle

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they also have a lower drink driving limit. do you think that is unfair?

Its unfair in that everyone should be at the lower limit in my opinion.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Some of the worst driving I have seen in the last few months was in cars displaying an N plate.

I would propose the exact opposite argument to your point. N drivers perhaps feel invincible as they have just passed a test, and consider themselves experts.

Same here, not the only bad drivers but always seem to be the worst and easier to generalise.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Either hands free needs to be made a lot easier or using a phone in the hand a lot harder (say through mandatory blocking/jamming technology) you will still see people using phones whilst driving.

It would be difficult to make it much easier. Most cars it is auto on, so long as your phone has Bluetooth turned on, the only thing you really have to do is hit accept if asked. Haven't been in a car where it took more than 10seconds in ages. The older kits had a little bit of fiddling but not the newer built in ones.