Do you work unpaid overtime?

Elessar

On 1st January a new law comes into effect in France that obliges companies to to guarantee their employees a “right to disconnect” from work in order to reduce the intrusion of work into their private lives.

Link

I think this is a great idea but I'm more concerned about the fact this is required in the first place. It's becoming almost normal over there for workers to work unpaid overtime from home, never really being able to disconnect from work or work related emails, with employers expecting it. That's the most worrying thing.

Anyone here feel compelled to work consistently after work hours? I guess I'm lucky in that regard, as unless I am on call or there's something super important, once 5pm comes I'm out of the office and leave the laptop there. I've heard of some American multinationals over here expecting serious hours from staff, but only paying 40 hours a week, and if you don't comply you're not a "team player". The whole American live to work culture seems to be creeping in.

Anyone in this situation?

Hector Bellend

I do in me b*****x

Senator Palpatine

Senior professionals do it without even thinking.

A 40 hour week is of little relevance in the real world.

hairyslug

Id say i do about 4 hours extra a week (not including short lunch breaks) I don't do it for the love of the job though.

Shenshen

I do, it varies from week to week. Tbh, I don't honestly mind it, I enjoy what I do and if I have to stay on a bit or log in from home to get something finished I'm not going to be upset about it. I know it's being appreciated, and that whenever I need work to be flexible for me, my manager will bend over backwards to make sure I can get time off, work from home, leave early, whatever might be required.

I know I'd feel different about it though if it wasn't a job I enjoyed as much as I do mine right now, or if the company actually expected it.

beggars_bush

What's overtime?

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

I'm salaried

Yourself isit

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

I'm salaried

The question doesn't exclude you

Yourself isit

Senator Palpatine wrote: »

Senior professionals do it without even thinking.

A 40 hour week is of little relevance in the real world.

Snigger.

Look you may be working 60 hours a week but that's on you. If you are you are not as highly paid as you think.

Winterlong

I get paid to get the job done. Some weeks I work less hours, some more. My salary does not vary unless there is a bonus paid.
And that is ok.

Dirty Dingus McGee

I do it as due to my buses I turn up earlier than I have to and leave about 15 minutes after I can leave.

Makes it easier as I have a little extra time to get things done in and don't have to pressurize myself.

I could get an later bus in the morning if I wanted but it's just handier to work a 30-45 minutes per day longer than I have to so I don't have as much pressure on me.

boardsuser1

No!!! I was fired for refusing to do so.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Senator Palpatine wrote: »

Senior professionals do it without even thinking.

A 40 hour week is of little relevance in the real world.

What an inspiration you are to us all.

boardsuser1

beggars_bush wrote: »

What's overtime?

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiO8qCFmZ_RAhWHJsAKHXouCbkQ3ywICzAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fm.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DxCWcsOUYvFM%26vidve%3D5727%26autoplay%3D1&usg=AFQjCNH3hXygVcnr-eXisRdef5z5oqtC3g&sig2=DO1xP_V6P8pUYn7DBUcAQA

Collie D

Speaking of France and unpaid overtime I was over there for couple of weeks holidays during the summer and brought work laptop with me. Had been joking about "forgetting" my charger and then when I packed I genuinely did forget it

Ulysses Gaze

I used to until I learned it means nothing.

If a company wants to can you, and in my case they did, all the extra overtime you do will mean nothing.

So now, I don't bother.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Yourself isit wrote: »

The question doesn't exclude you

Most people just take that to mean that I'm not paid on an hourly basis though, so if I stay later than 39 hours, then it's technically unpaid overtime.

lawred2

Senator Palpatine wrote: »

Senior professionals do it without even thinking.

A 40 hour week is of little relevance in the real world.

That's not really the case. Might be for some but definitely not all.

Our management actively encourage leaving the office by 530. It is expected that senior engineers can properly schedule and time manage so that there is rarely a need for late hours

If you routinely offer your time for no compensation then you're a massive fool in my opinion.

One thing our management do afford us is flexibility.. Some nights we can work late if it suits but it's very quickly returned in the shape of a late start, getting away early another day or working from home..

One thing is for sure I wouldn't sell my time with my wife and kids cheaply.

Bruthal

Senator Palpatine wrote: »

Senior professionals do it without even thinking.

A 40 hour week is of little relevance in the real world.

Yes, never let real life interfere with your work.

stimpson

I work undertime. My contract says 37 hours but my boss is in a different country and thinks I work 40. Once the customer is happy he leaves me alone.

Collie D

I get paid for my hours. Flexitime and overtime so any time in office is on the clock and paid one way or another.

Have taken laptop home on days off and made myself available by phone on holidays but that's more of a favour to whoever is covering for me.

boobar

I used to punch in a lot of extra hours in unpaid overtime, figured out you get as much thanks for doing the bare minimum sometimes you get as much thanks for doing less than that even.

So no for the most part I quickly take the time off again where extra days are worked up. I don't mind a few hours here and there but when it adds up to days,I draw a line.

Oops69

everyone does , who doesnt use up mental energy worrying about work , solving work - related issues etc. when officially off duty even at weekends? , thats why a proper holiday period is so important .

myshirt

We have a few anecdotes and stories in my profession

Typical conundrum is what to call an accountant who is in the office at 8am everyday, and never out before 9pm, Monday to Friday, week on week, every week, month on month; oddly takes lunch, and if does take lunch then takes at most a 20 minute (working) lunch, is in the office at least every second Saturday a month every month, works 9 out of 10 bank holidays, and takes no more than a week off a year, what do you call that guy?

A f#cking lazy bastard, that's what you call him.

The concept of an hourly rate was conceived for and designed for a different age. Much like the 'piece rate' where you were paid per piece when working in a factory, it has to go.

40 hours is a guideline I would feel. Plain fact is anyone in a successful organisation at the moment is not doing 9 to 6. It's dream land. Public sector wastage land. If you are efficient and effective with your time you could manage 48hours in a 7 day period, but other than that I'd say 54 hours is reasonable to expect from a salaried employee.

Ulysses Gaze

myshirt wrote: »

We have a few anecdotes and stories in my profession

Typical conundrum is what to call an accountant who is in the office at 8am everyday, and never out before 9pm, Monday to Friday, week on week, every week, month on month; oddly takes lunch, and if does take lunch then takes at most a 20 minute (working) lunch, is in the office at least every second Saturday a month every month, works 9 out of 10 bank holidays, and takes no more than a week off a year, what do you call that guy?

A f#cking lazy bastard, that's what you call him.

The concept of an hourly rate was conceived for and designed for a different age. Much like the 'piece rate' where you were paid per piece when working in a factory, it has to go.

40 hours is a guideline I would feel. Plain fact is anyone in a successful organisation at the moment is not doing 9 to 6. It's dream land. Public sector wastage land. If you are efficient and effective with your time you could manage 48hours in a 7 day period, but other than that I'd say 54 hours is reasonable to expect from a salaried employee.

Which would be fine if companies paid commensurate salaries for this extra time.

But they won't.

ThunbergsAreGo

I do at the moment, I am not happy about it

Dirty Dingus McGee

myshirt wrote: »

We have a few anecdotes and stories in my profession

Typical conundrum is what to call an accountant who is in the office at 8am everyday, and never out before 9pm, Monday to Friday, week on week, every week, month on month; oddly takes lunch, and if does take lunch then takes at most a 20 minute (working) lunch, is in the office at least every second Saturday a month every month, works 9 out of 10 bank holidays, and takes no more than a week off a year, what do you call that guy?

A f#cking lazy bastard, that's what you call him.

The concept of an hourly rate was conceived for and designed for a different age. Much like the 'piece rate' where you were paid per piece when working in a factory, it has to go.

40 hours is a guideline I would feel. Plain fact is anyone in a successful organisation at the moment is not doing 9 to 6. It's dream land. Public sector wastage land. If you are efficient and effective with your time you could manage 48hours in a 7 day period, but other than that I'd say 54 hours is reasonable to expect from a salaried employee.

Yeah.That's clearly not true.If that were the case then almost every company in the world is not successful.

54 hours is not reasonable to expect from a salaried employee if 40 hours per week is in their contract.

Wanderer78

time for neoclassical theory to go!

Senator Palpatine

Anomalies such as "unpaid overtime" are generally dealt with at bonus time.

I have zero issue working a 12 hour day because I know that I'm being pretty well rewarded for what I do and that I can take a morning or afternoon off if needs be without using annual leave.

road_high

All the time at busy times. But make up for it at quieter times. Only get paid overtime or lieu time for weekends. Getting paid is Defo not worth it though.
Think in most professional jobs it's par for the course. I count myself lucky. There's lots that don't have it like me.

Cantona's Collars

The only time I don't get paid for overtime is if I specify getting time in lieu instead.I find that my time is worth more to me than being taxed to the bollix for doing a few extra hours.

Four Phucs Ache

I and others I work with have done an extra 2-3 hours a week for years.We dont get paid as its not approved.

Its about 30 mins on avge most days just to get stuff done and prepped etc.We could easily have all this done by our contractual hours but over time a culture sets in where we talk and take our time.
Several times we set in place an agreement to help each other etc to get out but again old ways kick in after a few weeks and we're leaving 30 mins late again.
We're not really bothered as the Boss is very flexible and obliging regards personal needs, longer lunches, coming in a bit late etc.

osarusan

No.

myshirt

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Yeah.That's clearly not true.If that were the case then almost every company in the world is not successful.

54 hours is not reasonable to expect from a salaried employee if 40 hours per week is in their contract.

The law said I could beat the sh't out of my wife at one stage aswell, but that doesn't make it right does it?

Google educated and curbside lawyers are typically the ones who point to a contract and dumbly say 'well it says this'. Reality however dictates that the nature of the game requires you there longer. Custom and practice amongst other factors in equity and estoppel may well usurp strict insistence on contract law.

54 hours in a 7 day period is what I am saying, not a 5 day period remember.

Wanderer2010

No, because my company pays overtime. I only do overtime maybe once every 2-3 months and even then only for a few hours. Doing regular overtime, unpaid or not, gives two impressions: 1. You cant do your job in the allocated hours 2. You are the first person called upon to do "critical" "urgent" jobs that cant wait until Monday and that nobody else is asked to do. I learnt a very long time ago that you are merely a number in a company, to be dropped in a second if it helps the bottom line.

I also know that the issue of unpaid overtime is a source of huge debate whenever it comes up on boards.ie. I am firmly in the camp of "Do your work, come home and then enjoy your life", but a massive number of people still think its your "duty" to work 10 hours a day, weekends and whatever else it takes to climb the ladder for some mythical better life that they aim for.

gifted

I have a foreman who does the opposite....he puts in on average 14/16 hours a week overtime on his timesheet even though he's at home...boss thinks he's a legend..

Fuzzytrooper

Hard not to when your name is down as the project lead and you haven't been given enough resources to do the job,

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

dresden8

Only a fool works for free.

Ulysses Gaze

myshirt wrote: »

The law said I could beat the sh't out of my wife at one stage aswell, but that doesn't make it right does it?

Google educated and curbside lawyers are typically the ones who point to a contract and dumbly say 'well it says this'. Reality however dictates that the nature of the game requires you there longer. Custom and practice amongst other factors in equity and estoppel may well usurp strict insistence on contract law.

54 hours in a 7 day period is what I am saying, not a 5 day period remember.

Do you think companies would pay staff more for these extra 14 hours a week?

If companies would pay 25% more onto current salaries, that may work.

Dirty Dingus McGee

myshirt wrote: »

The law said I could beat the sh't out of my wife at one stage aswell, but that doesn't make it right does it?

Google educated and curbside lawyers are typically the ones who point to a contract and dumbly say 'well it says this'. Reality however dictates that the nature of the game requires you there longer. Custom and practice amongst other factors in equity and estoppel may well usurp strict insistence on contract law.

54 hours in a 7 day period is what I am saying, not a 5 day period remember.

In some jobs they actually want you to leave within the alloted time and not work more than the contract hours require.

I remember I regularly used to stay until close to 6 when I supposed to finish at 5 and my boss got on to me to leave at 5 regardless that she didn't want me getting burned out.

Wanderer2010

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Couldn't have put it better. Someone treats you like dirt then they cant expect one single breath of effort above the bare minimum, they can go and fcuk themselves. If someone is sound and treats you right, you don't mind going over and above the odd time. Basic human manners 101. The amount of companies who cant get that simple concept right is staggering.

Ulysses Gaze

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Couldn't have put it better. Someone treats you like dirt then they cant expect one single breath of effort above the bare minimum, they can go and fcuk themselves. If someone is sound and treats you right, you don't mind going over and above the odd time. Basic human manners 101. The amount of companies who cant get that simple concept right is staggering.

That is because a huge number of people managers should not be people managers.

dresden8

myshirt wrote: »

We have a few anecdotes and stories in my profession

Typical conundrum is what to call an accountant who is in the office at 8am everyday, and never out before 9pm, Monday to Friday, week on week, every week, month on month; oddly takes lunch, and if does take lunch then takes at most a 20 minute (working) lunch, is in the office at least every second Saturday a month every month, works 9 out of 10 bank holidays, and takes no more than a week off a year, what do you call that guy?

A f#cking lazy bastard, that's what you call him.

The concept of an hourly rate was conceived for and designed for a different age. Much like the 'piece rate' where you were paid per piece when working in a factory, it has to go.

40 hours is a guideline I would feel. Plain fact is anyone in a successful organisation at the moment is not doing 9 to 6. It's dream land. Public sector wastage land. If you are efficient and effective with your time you could manage 48hours in a 7 day period, but other than that I'd say 54 hours is reasonable to expect from a salaried employee.

If you're prepared to work 14 hours for free I need my toilet cleaned and some light ironing and dusting done.

PM me for details.

You can also rim my ass while you're at it.

myshirt

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Do you think companies would pay staff more for these extra 14 hours a week?

If companies would pay 25% more onto current salaries, that may work.

That's the point, I don't think these hours are extra. The idea of pay by hour is conceived for and designed for a different age.

Zaph

myshirt wrote: »

54 hours in a 7 day period is what I am saying, not a 5 day period remember.

And do you think it's acceptable for people to be working 7 days a week? Or should they cram those 54 hours into 5 days to ensure that they get some proper rest so that they can face the next 54 hour week?

Teyla Emmagan

Nope. I don't even work most of the 35 hours a week I'm in for.

dresden8

myshirt wrote: »

That's the point, I don't think these hours are extra. The idea of pay by hour is conceived for and designed for a different age.

I think your employer should can your ass right now.

Anybody working over 48 hours a week is setting their employer up for a big fall.

Hopefully you are going to sue their asses in a few years.

If so, I salute you sir.

If not, you are an idiot.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/hours_of_work/working_week.html

The Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 states that the maximum average working week for many employees cannot exceed 48 hours. This does not mean that a working week can never exceed 48 hours, it is the average that is important. The average may be calculated in one of the following ways:

Over 4 months for most employees
Over 6 months for employees working in the security industry, hospitals, prisons, gas/electricity, airport/docks, agriculture and employees in businesses which have peak periods at certain times of the year such as tourism.
over 12 months where there has been an agreement between the employer and the employees to this effect. The agreement between employer and employees must be approved by the Labour Court.
The calculation of 48 hours does not include annual leave, sick leave or maternity/adoptive/parental leave.
The legislation also lays down rules for night workers, minimum breaks and rest periods. There are also special provisions in relation to Sunday working – see below.

Exceptions
The provisions of the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 on working time and rest periods do not apply to all employees. They do not apply to the Gardaí, Defence Forces, employees who control their own working hours or family employees on farms or in private homes. The working hours of young people under the age of 18 are regulated by the Protection of Young Persons (Employment) Act 1996.

There are separate regulations governing the working time of trainee doctors (SI 494/2004), employees working in mobile road transport activities (SI 36/2012) and employees working at sea.

Employees in certain categories of civil protection services (SI 52/1998) are currently exempt from provisions on maximum average working week and statutory rest breaks/periods.

You may notice that even though you earlier slagged off the public sector the first exemptions apply to the public sector.

You may wish to apologise.

Stealthfins

Senator Palpatine wrote:

A 40 hour week is of little relevance in the real world.

Is it now,are you serious.
That kinda stuff was not around during the 80's and 90's

Then more foreign companies crept in during the early 00's and the lick ass culture crept in and the foreign interviewer's chancing their arm, telling prospective employees the benifets of working untill you get sick and zombified.

It's dressed up as "you're a professional now in the cooperative world"
So more is expected of you.

Your hour's are 9 to 5 so are mine but I come in at 7:30 am but leave around 8pm if I'm lucky,then I go home open the laptop and work from home until around 11

So in effect they expect you to work 12.5 hour's on site and maybe two more when you're home.

14 hour's a day 5 days a week.

70 hours a week for a shtty wage.

"Because the company's worth it"

I do my 40 hour's a week 9 to 5 out the door and I get on way better with management and the CEO than the lick asses,who do that 40â„…extra
Who get the same salary as me,I'm there 12 year's now,my contract is ringfenced.

Happy day's

My quality of life is more important

stateofflux

As the joker says if you are good at something don't do it for free. im the only one in my company that demanded it (as far as i know) and was prepared to leave if i did not get it. it worked.

My Boss even treats me with way more respect now since i had the balls to do it.

id rather be unemployed than be treated like a slave.

lawred2

myshirt wrote: »

We have a few anecdotes and stories in my profession

Typical conundrum is what to call an accountant who is in the office at 8am everyday, and never out before 9pm, Monday to Friday, week on week, every week, month on month; oddly takes lunch, and if does take lunch then takes at most a 20 minute (working) lunch, is in the office at least every second Saturday a month every month, works 9 out of 10 bank holidays, and takes no more than a week off a year, what do you call that guy?

A f#cking lazy bastard, that's what you call him.

The concept of an hourly rate was conceived for and designed for a different age. Much like the 'piece rate' where you were paid per piece when working in a factory, it has to go.

40 hours is a guideline I would feel. Plain fact is anyone in a successful organisation at the moment is not doing 9 to 6. It's dream land. Public sector wastage land. If you are efficient and effective with your time you could manage 48hours in a 7 day period, but other than that I'd say 54 hours is reasonable to expect from a salaried employee.

What a load of toss