Starting Silage contracting

WexfordFarmer

Howya everyone Any tips an ideas 4 someone wanting to get into silage Contracting with a self propelled

Nekarsulm

Round here, it seems to be solely for "show" and to hold on to loyal customers for the other contracting operations.

selectamatic

Don't.

Cut throat business
Diesel prices on the rise
Uncertain and irregular payment flow
Increasing health and safety measures and insurance costs
And above all a lack of profitability

WexfordFarmer

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Round here, it seems to be solely for "show" and to hold on to loyal customers for the other contracting operations.

Yes well i would start of providing a full scale operation from field 2 pit.Then hopefully add on services from there !

Nekarsulm

You will have no problem getting customers in your first year.
All the lads who haven't paid last years contractor (and can't go back till they do) will be at your door.

adam14

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

Animals can be out wintered on welfare grounds, see your vet for details like lameness etc.

It's a mugs game.

WexfordFarmer

Nekarsulm wrote: »

You will have no problem getting customers in your first year.
All the lads who haven't paid last years contractor (and can't go back till they do) will be at your door.

Yes i understand that but i would be chargin considerably less for the 1st year starting out .Also a few locals have said theyll give me a call.How would ya suggest advertising my services further a field.

davidk1394

Can you fix and maintain machinery?
Are you used to long hours under pressure ?
Do you have a list of customers to start with and can you match the large scale operations out there ?
I do baling and wrapping and a few other services during the summer. I love machinery but I'm not going to do it full time. A friend of mine borrowed 100k to start up his own business. However you don't see the poor lad from one end of the summer to the next. Just think carefully before you venture down that road of large machinery with even larger running costs.

WexfordFarmer

davidk1394 wrote: »

Can you fix and maintain machinery?
Are you used to long hours under pressure ?
Do you have a list of customers to start with and can you match the large scale operations out there ?
I do baling and wrapping and a few other services during the summer. I love machinery but I'm not going to do it full time. A friend of mine borrowed 100k to start up his own business. However you don't see the poor lad from one end of the summer to the next. Just think carefully before you venture down that road of large machinery with even larger running costs.

Yes i have experience in mechanical engeneering and work part time in winter doing odd jobs .Yes i have few customers lined up and ya im fairly sure i can match other opp .I have the oul Benson&Hedges too solve the stress and well used to long hours.

Nekarsulm

Would you consider starting with a hedgecutter or a moffet type saw blade? And perhaps then get a slurry pipe system? Keep your wage bill manageable till you see how it goes.

WexfordFarmer

https://www.donedeal.ie/silageharvesters-for-sale/new-holland-9060/14145977 What's everyones though on her reasonabl price and hours?.

WexfordFarmer

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Would you consider starting with a hedgecutter or a moffet type saw blade? And perhaps then get a slurry pipe system? Keep your wage bill manageable till you see how it goes.

Id definitely add them to my services down the line but wouldnt say id start with piping as land is dry here but would it be worthwhile going further a field ?

tanko

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

Yes i understand that but i would be chargin considerably less for the 1st year starting out .Also a few locals have said theyll give me a call.How would ya suggest advertising my services further a field.

I don't think charging considerably less the first year is a good idea. You're going to need every every euro you can get, no point being a busy fool.
It'll cause problems when you try to raise your charges the following year too.
Any successful contractor i know started off on a small scale and built up their business over time.

bogman_bass

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

Yes i understand that but i would be chargin considerably less for the 1st year starting out .Also a few locals have said theyll give me a call.How would ya suggest advertising my services further a field.

You are on a hiding to nothing if you do that

Shannon757

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

Yes i have experience in mechanical engeneering and work part time in winter doing odd jobs .Yes i have few customers lined up and ya im fairly sure i can match other opp .I have the oul Benson&Hedges too solve the stress and well used to long hours.

I couldn't for the life of me think of what kind of a machine a Benson & Hedges was until I Google searched it

WexfordFarmer

bogman_bass wrote: »

You are on a hiding to nothing if you do that

Thats what the boss said but in order to get custom would you not have to be cheaper than competition .

WexfordFarmer

Shannon757 wrote: »

I couldn't for the life of me think of what kind of a machine a Benson & Hedges was until I Google searched it

There a very expensive machine att 11.30 for only 20 a box ):

bogman_bass

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

Thats what the boss said but in order to get custom would you not have to be cheaper than competition .

Those lads are barely keeping their head above water at the prices they charge. You go cheaper then you are probably going to make a loss.
Plus if you go cheaper now the customers will expect you to be cheaper next year. If they are the type of lads to jump ship to a different contarctor over a tenner then they'll just as quick jump the other way.

Look. the most important machine in that job is a calculator. Get good at using that first before you shell out on expensive kit. Banks are more than happy to take it back from you if you cant keep paying

Shannon757

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

Thats what the boss said but in order to get custom would you not have to be cheaper than competition .

Well this probably isn't a good example but I sell turf. This is my second year. When I started first I was €4 a bag, not because it made me the cheapest, but because it made financial sense. I started small and this year had the same customers and more, even though I was more expensive. What I'm saying is pick a good price and stick with it. If you're good people will stick with you and then you can expand as you scale up. To echo other posters there's no point being the cheapest first year because you can't go rising prices

Who2

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

There a very expensive machine att 11.30 for only 20 a box ):

Far cheaper than putting in 15 hr days for six weeks and hope to make the repayments on a half a millions worth of machinery at a minimum, then pay diesel, revenue and a crew of young lads who will probably be learning off your back, then buy the parts for repairs and build a she'd to store them for the ten months of the year most of the machinery will be idle. If you can manage all that then it'll be time to go collecting but it's a fair wait from June until the mid of October when you might get half your money. When all's added up would something like a brickie or plasterer not be a much better venture, 25 an hour easily obtainable although you'll probably have to spend somewhere in the region of 200 euros on tools and equipment.

WexfordFarmer

Shannon757 wrote: »

Well this probably isn't a good example but I sell turf. This is my second year. When I started first I was €4 a bag, not because it made me the cheapest, but because it made financial sense. I started small and this year had the same customers and more, even though I was more expensive. What I'm saying is pick a good price and stick with it. If you're good people will stick with you and then you can expand as you scale up. To echo other posters there's no point being the cheapest first year because you can't go rising prices

Yes that is probably because you are selling them quality not quantity which is best way to go about things

WexfordFarmer

Who2 wrote: »

Far cheaper than putting in 15 hr days for six weeks and hope to make the repayments on a half a millions worth of machinery at a minimum, then pay diesel, revenue and a crew of young lads who will probably be learning off your back, then buy the parts for repairs and build a she'd to store them for the ten months of the year most of the machinery will be idle. If you can manage all that then it'll be time to go collecting but it's a fair wait from June until the mid of October when you might get half your money. When all's added up would something like a brickie or plasterer not be a much better venture, 25 an hour easily obtainable although you'll probably have to spend somewhere in the region of 200 euros on tools and equipment.

Yes but it is something i have my heart an sole set on and if ive got to slave away 4 rest of my life to keep my head above water so be it ya wont hear me complaining ._

WexfordFarmer

bogman_bass wrote: »

Those lads are barely keeping their head above water at the prices they charge. You go cheaper then you are probably going to make a loss.
Plus if you go cheaper now the customers will expect you to be cheaper next year. If they are the type of lads to jump ship to a different contarctor over a tenner then they'll just as quick jump the other way.

Look. the most important machine in that job is a calculator. Get good at using that first before you shell out on expensive kit. Banks are more than happy to take it back from you if you cant keep paying

Yes if i charge a fair price like everyone else that suits me an customer theyll be no problems but if i start under cutting and some other local starts out and charges less than me then theyll be a stampede of them abandoning ship and so on ect.

Who2

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

Yes but it is something i have my heart an sole set on and if ive got to slave away 4 rest of my life to keep my head above water so be it ya wont hear me complaining ._

Everyone has great hopes and dreams and think when they are young they'll slave away all the hours god sends. When a mortgage is needed or a couple of lads in a row refuse to pay or there's a major break and your tied to your stones so can't afford new parts.You'll be in debt the rest of your life and it's only further into it you'll go contracting. It's grand spending a few hours or weeks on a tractor, how will that keep you going in twenty years. Take my advice and pick something easier.

parishsavings

Forget that self-propelled nonsense, plenty silage outfits working flat out with a trailed harvester, makes more sense, smaller outlay, easier to repair, tractor can be used 12 months of the year i.e. only harvester is parked up

Noveight

Have you driven for a contractor before OP? Good experience to be gained before you go investing.

WexfordFarmer

parishsavings wrote: »

Forget that self-propelled nonsense, plenty silage outfits working flat out with a trailed harvester, makes more sense, smaller outlay, easier to repair, tractor can be used 12 months of the year i.e. only harvester is parked up

Yes but there is only a small period to get work done,you cant really compare a sp to a trailed hartvester ... I know there is big factors to consider ie. parts output diesel consumption ect..But in my eyes ya cant bate a sp to cover a large acreage in short space of time!

WexfordFarmer

Noveight wrote: »

Have you driven for a contractor before OP? Good experience to be gained before you go investing.

Yes worked for many a day some sound as they come and others lowest of lowest .

bogman_bass

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

Yes but there is only a small period to get work done,you cant really compare a sp to a trailed hartvester ... I know there is big factors to consider ie. parts output diesel consumption ect..But in my eyes ya cant bate a sp to cover a large acreage in short space of time!

but you Need that acerage to cover your costs. will you have it in year one?

parishsavings

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

Yes but there is only a small period to get work done,you cant really compare a sp to a trailed hartvester ... I know there is big factors to consider ie. parts output diesel consumption ect..But in my eyes ya cant bate a sp to cover a large acreage in short space of time!

Fair enough but not too many laptops needed to sort a JF!
I suppose the question is what acreage will you have? If you build up enough customers you could probably justify a self-propelled.

What about round bale silage? Is there a demand in your area?
Are you currently farming or off-farm employment?

WexfordFarmer

parishsavings wrote: »

Fair enough but not too many laptops needed to sort a JF!
I suppose the question is what acreage will you have? If you build up enough customers you could probably justify a self-propelled.

What about round bale silage? Is there a demand in your area?
Are you currently farming or off-farm employment?

Farming 200 sheep and 300 cattle,bales wouldnt be that popular and too many at that craic . Acerage could vary from 900-2000 acres depending on year.Also maybe 500 acres of potential maize acerage .

WexfordFarmer

bogman_bass wrote: »

but you Need that acerage to cover your costs. will you have it in year one?

Well i'd certainly hope so or not i'd be knee deep in it .

parishsavings

Well I assume you already have some machinery so it might be worth sticking a toe in the water and see how it goes

WexfordFarmer

parishsavings wrote: »

Well I assume you already have some machinery so it might be worth sticking a toe in the water and see how it goes

Yes i have a bit you could say but would still need a loan off a bank of approximately 100-200 thousand thats being realistically and not being a pc farmer saying 700 thousand .

WexfordFarmer

Who2 wrote: »

Everyone has great hopes and dreams and think when they are young they'll slave away all the hours god sends. When a mortgage is needed or a couple of lads in a row refuse to pay or there's a major break and your tied to your stones so can't afford new parts.You'll be in debt the rest of your life and it's only further into it you'll go contracting. It's grand spending a few hours or weeks on a tractor, how will that keep you going in twenty years. Take my advice and pick something easier.

I know im young and foolish but i dont see aneyone changing my mind for love nor money all i can do is strike when the Kettle is hot .And sure if things do turn sour at least i can always say i gave it my best shot

parishsavings

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

I know im young and foolish but i dont see aneyone changing my mind for love nor money all i can do is strike when the Kettle is hot .And sure if things do turn sour at least i can always say i gave it my best shot

If it was me I would spend the 100K or 200K on land and be keeping machinery overheads down!
But not that many years ago I had notions of a yard full of machinery! Just a word of caution...every machine costs money even when it is going fine...diesel, oil, lube, back end oil, filters etc!

But if you want something bad enough, go for it!
Could be worse, you could be drinking that money!

WexfordFarmer

parishsavings wrote: »

If it was me I would spend the 100K or 200K on land and be keeping machinery overheads down!
But not that many years ago I had notions of a yard full of machinery! Just a word of caution...every machine costs money even when it is going fine...diesel, oil, lube, back end oil, filters etc!

But if you want something bad enough, go for it!
Could be worse, you could be drinking that money!

Exactly could find worse to do with money,maybe invest in cans of red bull and plenty of Benson Hedgesto help me through the silly season

kerry cow

Best of luck to you .think the conversion should stop here and now, as you are going to do what you want anyway regardless of people's opinion.
Contracting with fancy machinery is a addiction like all the other addictions out there .It's a disease and will consume you till it squeezes the life out of you and even then when guys are broke mentally and financially they won't admit it because of the same reason they got into it in the first instance , Stupidity.

old deere

kerry cow wrote: »

Contracting with fancy machinery is a addiction like all the other addictions out there .It's a disease and will consume you till it squeezes the life out of you and even then when guys are broke mentally and financially they won't admit it because of the same reason they got into it in the first instance , Stupidity.

This post should be made into a health warning sticker and placed on all new grass machinery .

Sam Kade

Op have a listen to this

mfceiling

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

I know im young and foolish but i dont see aneyone changing my mind for love nor money all i can do is strike when the Kettle is hot .And sure if things do turn sour at least i can always say i gave it my best shot

If things turn sour and you gave it your best shot what will you tell the bank when they are looking their 200 grand back?

leg wax

somebody has to do the work.......but its a total non runner in my books, you buy gear work hard to pay back for the gear then you have running costs on top to pay aswell ,you just have it paid back and it needs replacing. contractors cannot charge enough for the true costs and to really leave a profit the farmers dont have the money either because they have been left behind in what they should be really getting for there product that they produce, its a knock on effect.

davidk1394

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

https://www.donedeal.ie/silageharvesters-for-sale/new-holland-9060/14145977 What's everyones though on her reasonabl price and hours?.

That's on done deal for the last 2 months. Pick up reel is too slow and you end up blocking the header. If it's harvesters you go for pick a 900 or a Deere 8550. Waste of time going for anything smaller. Would you consider wagon silage ?? Or another way of picking up jobs is doing slurry during the summer while other lads are busy picking up the grass.

Muckit

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

Thats what the boss said but in order to get custom would you not have to be cheaper than competition .

Better not cheaper

Muckit

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

https://www.donedeal.ie/silageharvesters-for-sale/new-holland-9060/14145977 What's everyones though on her reasonabl price and hours?.

Go out and buy yourself a little house instead. Find a woman. Just think of the 'early nights' and 'sleep-ins' of a Saturday morning!!

Better than stuck up on a harvester starring at a spout.

_Brian

Muckit wrote: »

Better not cheaper

This is really important.
Being cheap is fine but you'll face huge resistance when you try to move to a profitable rate, why wouldn't they just jump to the next new kid on the block offering below cost rates.
Better done jobs get good customers to come back year after year, good reliable kit, good careful drivers these are the things people pay for.

Surely slurry or similar mentioned above would be a more sensible start. I know round here it's impossible to get a good lad with tracked machine, saw and hedge cutter. With such restrictions on cutting it it an area not well serviced and would be a much cheaper set up option.

WexfordFarmer

davidk1394 wrote: »

That's on done deal for the last 2 months. Pick up reel is too slow and you end up blocking the header. If it's harvesters you go for pick a 900 or a Deere 8550. Waste of time going for anything smaller. Would you consider wagon silage ?? Or another way of picking up jobs is doing slurry during the summer while other lads are busy picking up the grass.

Wagon silage wouldn't be best place to start as many people prefer chop of a sp .https://www.donedeal.ie/silageharvesters-for-sale/2011-claas-950-forage-harvester/14219844 this would be something that would be more likely to give competition around ere run for there money .

WexfordFarmer

_Brian wrote: »

This is really important.
Being cheap is fine but you'll face huge resistance when you try to move to a profitable rate, why wouldn't they just jump to the next new kid on the block offering below cost rates.
Better done jobs get good customers to come back year after year, good reliable kit, good careful drivers these are the things people pay for.

Surely slurry or similar mentioned above would be a more sensible start. I know round here it's impossible to get a good lad with tracked machine, saw and hedge cutter. With such restrictions on cutting it it an area not well serviced and would be a much cheaper set up option.

Would umbilical slurry service be a expensive start up op ?

WexfordFarmer

Muckit wrote: »

Go out and buy yourself a little house instead. Find a woman. Just think of the 'early nights' and 'sleep-ins' of a Saturday morning!!

Better than stuck up on a harvester starring at a spout.

Think silage Contracting wouldn't give me as much hassle as women now days .

WexfordFarmer

mfceiling wrote: »

If things turn sour and you gave it your best shot what will you tell the bank when they are looking their 200 grand back?

I wont be around to tell them if thats the case

Reggie.

WexfordFarmer wrote: »

Think silage Contracting wouldn't give me as much hassle as women now days .

If it has a skirt or wheels it's going to give ya problems