New model Land Rover Discovery

carsfan2

Prices and specs of the all new model discovery are up on the Land Rover website.
Starts at 58 k for poverty spec 5 seater with 180 hp.
Prices rise rapidly if you add any bit of spec or want any go.
Looks much more like a Range Rover than Land Rover than before.apparently there will be no 5 seater commercial version either.
Any opinion in this car?
Will it be a success here and will the first owners be development drivers for Land Rover as has been the case in the past?

Renegade Mechanic

carsfan2 wrote: »

Prices and specs of the all new model discovery are up on the Land Rover website.
Starts at 58 k for poverty spec 5 seater with 180 hp.
Prices rise rapidly if you add any bit of spec or want any go.
Looks much more like a Range Rover than Land Rover than before.apparently there will be no 5 seater commercial version either.
Any opinion in this car?
Will it be a success here and will the first owners be development drivers for Land Rover as has been the case in the past?

Not a feckin hope

kay 9

Them dirty things are only suited to Chelsea where they are never to far from a garage.

bazz26

Makes the Ford Edge look like something of a bargain. :pac:

Without a crew cab/commerical version here they will struggle to sell any significant numbers.

Oafley Jones

I know it's been on a diet, but that's a massive drop in power on the entry model. Not a fan of the looks either. No interest in it.

The lack of a 5 seat commercial version will have a massive impact on sales.

Atlantic Dawn

The lowest emissions version is €570 a year motor tax, that works out less than €5 a week difference with the commerical rate of €333, would that alone kill sales? Previous models would have been the €1800plus a year so that would have killed sales of those V's the commercial version.

Atlantic Dawn

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The lowest emissions version is €570 a year motor tax, that works out less than €5 a week difference with the commerical rate of €333, would that alone kill sales? Previous models would have been the €1800plus a year so that would have killed sales of those V's the commercial version.

The purchase price will also be much higher due to the higher rate of VRT and VAT can't be reclaimed which is another massive discount for a vat registered person buying one.

Oafley Jones

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The lowest emissions version is €570 a year motor tax, that works out less than €5 a week difference with the commerical rate of €333, would that alone kill sales? Previous models would have been the €1800plus a year so that would have killed sales of those V's the commercial version.

1200 for v6. Still not cheap.

carsfan2

I think they are going for a different market with this one.
Maybe a new defender model will fill the void for commercial sales.
I think even at this price point the higher road tax and probably high running costs will impact a bit.
It looks just like a bigger discovery sport to me too which is not a good thing.

Marcusm

I see there's a 3L 6cyl supercharged petrol but with a stupid 254g/km CO2 level which I imagine will restrict sales both in Ireland and the U.K. Wonder why they are even offering it in RHD.

SBPhoto

One ugly looking square box, don't appeal to me at all

playbus

An attempt is being made to persuade the Irish Distributor to bring in a new 2 seater Commercial Van version of the New Discovery, with a choice of diesel engines and specifications. Interested parties should inform their local franchised dealer and/or contact OHM group directly, a Mr Eddie Kavanagh is the contact there, ekavanagh at ohm.ie - The expected price of such a vehicle would be starting from sub €50K.......

goochy

could they not do 5 seater comm. ? don't think demand for 2 seater would be that great.

playbus

The loadspace on the 5 seater model is apparently not large enough to qualify for the "crew cab" rules. It has to be a total of 30% of the vehicle interior space.....just not enough.

goochy

Think it will be too pricey as 2 seater

playbus

Not if it is 50K minus VAT, pretty good for this current world we live in....

goochy

goochy wrote: »

could they not do 5 seater comm. ? don't think demand for 2 seater would be that great.

They need both. Any jeep that's not available in 2 and 5 seat commercial is going to be a flop here. Why would any one buy a "passenger" Land Rover when they can buy a Touareg or a landcruiser in 5 seat commercial for much cheaper, cheaper tax and claim the vat back if they own a business.

The last discovery sold very well but every single one (from my observation) was 5 seat commercial. Apparently there was plenty of complaints about the lack of a 2 seat commercial in this generation of the discovery so I expect the fact one will be available now will help sales but they will sell feck all passenger models.

playbus

Certainly most sales of Discovery 4's since the introduction of the 5 seater commercial rules in 2012, have been in that format in Ireland. But, as I mentioned earlier, the snag seems to be that the New Discovery, which ironically is available as a 5 seater anyway, just does not have enough loadspace by volume to qualify for the 5 seat commercial rules, which state that the loadspace has to be at least 30% of the total interior volume. The New Discovery's lower overall height has seemingly put paid to that idea.

So the only way of getting a New Discovery 5 with a VAT reclaimable status is to have it in a 2 seat van format, which is why this thread was started, to try to persuade the distributor to make this happen, and fast.

playbus

playbus wrote: »

Certainly most sales of Discovery 4's since the introduction of the 5 seater commercial rules in 2012, have been in that format in Ireland. But, as I mentioned earlier, the snag seems to be that the New Discovery, which ironically is available as a 5 seater anyway, just does not have enough loadspace by volume to qualify for the 5 seat commercial rules, which state that the loadspace has to be at least 30% of the total interior volume. The New Discovery's lower overall height has seemingly put paid to that idea.

So the only way of getting a New Discovery 5 with a VAT reclaimable status is to have it in a 2 seat van format, which is why this thread was started, to try to persuade the distributor to make this happen, and fast.

I've heard that a 2 seat commercial version is already planned.

playbus

Interesting.........would be good certainly. But last time I enquired, at what is probably currently the best franchised dealership in the country (located in the sunny south east....) they knew nothing about any Commercial version being planned.... They did however have the complete price list not only for the vehicle but for every single factory and locally fitted accessory, available in Excel format upon request....

Marcusm

There is not the same grá in the U.K. For faux commercials and given that the car has barely been launched and seems to be selling well in the U.K. Market, I doubt that they will be interrupting the production line of RHD models to cater for an Irish niche. As I understand it, the vehicle has to come out of the factory as an N1 these days meaning that it cannot simply be done outside the general production line.

Eric Cartman

Im just not a fan of the look of it, I know theres new EU rules on padestrian safety, but the LR range has gone soft. ill await to see the new defender which promises to be a workhorse and definitely clear as commercial.

The new discovery and that discovery sport thing are just weak showings from LR in my opinion.

Marcusm

Marcusm wrote: »

There is not the same grá in the U.K. For faux commercials and given that the car has barely been launched and seems to be selling well in the U.K. Market, I doubt that they will be interrupting the production line of RHD models to cater for an Irish niche. As I understand it, the vehicle has to come out of the factory as an N1 these days meaning that it cannot simply be done outside the general production line.

It can be done in two seat commercial at anytime but to avail of cheaper vrt and reclaiming the. vat it needs to be bought new. Also LR wouldn't have to interrupt the assembly line they have a division for modifying vehicles.

Marcusm

Oliver Muscular Queen wrote: »

It can be done in two seat commercial at anytime but to avail of cheaper vrt and reclaiming the. vat it needs to be bought new. Also LR wouldn't have to interrupt the assembly line they have a division for modifying vehicles.

There would be little point in cannibalising what is marketed by LR as a luxury SUV to make a 2seat commercial if it didn't save the VRT or VAT - there would simply be no market for it. As for in factory midification, it's at the beginning of its life cycle not nearly 10 years into it with stiff competition and challenging sales figures. You need to really see that the Irish market is probably 5-7% of the RHD market and a fraction again of the overall Disco market to see that this would not be any type of priority, esp as it's negative for brand image!

Marcusm

Marcusm wrote: »

There would be little point in cannibalising what is marketed by LR as a luxury SUV to make a 2seat commercial if it didn't save the VRT or VAT - there would simply be no market for it. As for in factory midification, it's at the beginning of its life cycle not nearly 10 years into it with stiff competition and challenging sales figures. You need to really see that the Irish market is probably 5-7% of the RHD market and a fraction again of the overall Disco market to see that this would not be any type of priority, esp as it's negative for brand image!

They don't have to be factory converted to avail of lower vrt and vat reclaim it can be done by LR Ireland or a dealer pre sale or done on an import before registering it (lower vrt but no vat reclaim, many buying them can't claim vat anyway).

playbus

Oliver Muscular Queen wrote: »

They don't have to be factory converted to avail of lower vrt and vat reclaim it can be done by LR Ireland or a dealer pre sale or done on an import before registering it (lower vrt but no vat reclaim, many buying them can't claim vat anyway).

I thought everything had to be factory built these days under EU rules for N1 Commercial Vehicle classification?

goochy

someone on limerick forum said before xmas that worked seemed to have stopped on lyons new jag land rover place , passed autoboland Waterford building site and its progressing very slowly - seeing as theres a petition going around - could dealers be protesting against lack of new disco. commercial / crew cab ?

hi5

playbus wrote: »

I thought everything had to be factory built these days under EU rules for N1 Commercial Vehicle classification?

Vehicles can be bought from the factory pre tax then rebuilt here in Ireland by an approved body builder, then submitted for conformity for the relevant category you want.
Then the relevant taxes are applied.

https://www.nsai.ie/AVBB.aspx

Approved body builder..https://www.nsai.ie/avbb-register.aspx

playbus

goochy wrote: »

someone on limerick forum said before xmas that worked seemed to have stopped on lyons new jag land rover place , passed autoboland Waterford building site and its progressing very slowly - seeing as theres a petition going around - could dealers be protesting against lack of new disco. commercial / crew cab ?

That, and the worries & uncertainties surrounding the Brexit fiasco - lets face it if there ends up being further taxes in the form of import duties being applied then nobody in their right minds is going to want to have a JLR dealership! Sadly......

playbus

playbus wrote: »

I thought everything had to be factory built these days under EU rules for N1 Commercial Vehicle classification?

I was actually referring to two seat commercials in that post which can still be converted even as second hand vehicles if bought in the UK and impoerted here, converted and VRT'd as commercial.

As another poster its also possible on new vehicles to make them 5 seat commercial pre-VRT if they can be modified to meet the requirement (which is how Paddy Connolly is doing it more than likely on Range Rovers, if not getting LRs own conversion division to do it).

playbus

Oliver Muscular Queen wrote: »

I was actually referring to two seat commercials in that post which can still be converted even as second hand vehicles if bought in the UK and impoerted here, converted and VRT'd as commercial.

As another poster its also possible on new vehicles to make them 5 seat commercial pre-VRT if they can be modified to meet the requirement (which is how Paddy Connolly is doing it more than likely on Range Rovers, if not getting LRs own conversion division to do it).

So it is a bit like how it was done in the older days then - back in 1990 the very first Discovery Commercial, anywhere in the world, was converted from a passenger model at NVD in Rosslare, who carried on doing so for several years after that. Not sure if they are still doing the conversions for LR now though. Especially as the first shipment of New Discovery 5's in Ireland appeared to arrive through Dublin docks this week (they were seen at the Red Cow Interchange).

Sadly, as mentioned before, the New Discovery's boot space in 5 seat format is not large enough to qualify, i.e. it doesn't meet the requirement of being at least 30% of the total interior space. That's the official line, anyway.

carsfan2

goochy wrote: »

someone on limerick forum said before xmas that worked seemed to have stopped on lyons new jag land rover place , passed autoboland Waterford building site and its progressing very slowly - seeing as theres a petition going around - could dealers be protesting against lack of new disco. commercial / crew cab ?

I know someone involved in the Limerick fitout and apparently a screw up in ordering the correct glass windows was what the delay was there.

I am sceptical however that jag/ Land Rover have a good enough product at the moment to achieve increased sales.

playbus

I now hear that Charles Hurst Land Rover in Belfast are planning to offer the new Discovery 5 Commercial (UK spec) to customers down south via their Dublin facility....

goochy

That thing about Charles hurst will drive irish dealers mad and rightly so - especially joe duffys with their new premises.

Paddy Connolly would have close relationship with hursts with specialist cars so wouldn't be surprised if he gets discoveries and probably uses them for new Range rovers which he has crew. cabbed

how can a Toureg be crew cabbed , the boot looks very small ?

playbus

goochy wrote: »

That thing about Charles hurst will drive irish dealers mad and rightly so - especially joe duffys with their new premises.

Lets face it, ideally, JLR need a dealer in each county in Ireland if they are going to be serious about sales figures. There's no dealer anywhere along the N4 Dublin to Sligo road, for example, prime farmland and also prime business N1 vehicle land too! Not many potential purchasers are going to want to drive all the way down to Dublin or up to Letterkenny or across to Galway for servicing, etc....??!!

goochy

They are not chasing volume and n conlans would be suitable for Midlands customers . They are a prestige brand it's not like buying a land cruiser where you have a dealer in every county. They have dominated the passenger 4x4 for many years . Passed stuarts the other day. Decent used stock but very few new landys even in their compound and this was in January

playbus

Well they darn well ought to be chasing volume sales (and JLR in general should be making the Discovery less expensive by building more of them in different plants in different countries (Europe, the Americas, etc) and selling them for less...

I still think it is a hell of a long way to have to drive from, for example, Sligo Town to a franchised service dealer......at the present time....

freddieot

Would the Discovery really be considered a 'Prestige Brand' product ? I know the Range Rovers would but I think the marketeers have a job on their hands selling the Discovery as that, just my opinion.

A well specced one does hit the same prices as a medium spec X5, Q7, Lexus etc. but I don't see them making a huge impact in that sector as too many low spec ones and commercials that look similar reduce the 'snob' value.

Don't get me wrong, I like the new one and it is on the other hand a fantastic option if you need a big SUV that is a proper off-roader (for those that need one).

playbus

I've always considered the Discovery as a "practical" all-round 4x4, and up to recently it was generally affordable......just wish and hope that can happen again with the new model if these 2 seat Commercials appear....

goochy

Land rover is a premium brand these days the last of the defender's are selling for 70k , I have been a fan of the brand for many years but even I am amazed at how much irish people love the brand . Older range Rover are even very popular

playbus

goochy wrote: »

Older range Rover are even very popular

Especially when re-bodied as Discovery 1/2 vehicles! A Discovery with road tax of €56!

goochy

No I am talking about L322 2002 on range Rovers and range rover sports

playbus

Confirmation has arrived that the New Discovery 5 in Ireland can be had in 2 seat Commercial format, with TD4, SD4 & TDV6 engine choices, based on the S, SE & HSE variants. Order times are 10-12 weeks, conversion time is 2 weeks. Vehicles will be fully VAT reclaimable and the VRT will be 13.5%, road tax for all engines will be €333.

goochy

People have lost interest in 2 seater commercial 4x4 with big price tags especially after getting the taste for 5 seated commercial jeeps. Trinity have new f pace 2 seater commercial

playbus

Congratulations to McGinley Motors in Letterkenny for posting the very first official Discovery 5 advert (in terms of an actual vehicle) on carzone -

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/land-rover/discovery/used-2017-171-land-rover-discovery-5-donegal-fpa-7412707845869614158

playbus

playbus wrote: »

Congratulations to McGinley Motors in Letterkenny for posting the very first official Discovery 5 advert (in terms of an actual vehicle) on carzone -

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/land-rover/discovery/used-2017-171-land-rover-discovery-5-donegal-fpa-7412707845869614158

Seen one on the road yesterday. It had no plates.what a pox of a yoke!

goochy

no , no. no- its no where near as good looking as previous models . looks like sport model.
where is the commercial models ? assume they are to follow ?

how much is road tax on passenger models ?

carsfan2

80 grand for 180 bhp?!

veetwin

So it costs 10-15k more for a smaller much lower powered engine 4 cylinder engine as opposed to the silky smooth V6 in the previous model. There doesn't seem to be any more equipment either. Without a 5 seat commercial this won't sell in any numbers.

carsfan2

Article in the paper today quotes md of Land Rover Ireland saying they expect to sell 1000 of these in a full year here.
Very optimistic I would have thought.