First camper advice

sean61

Hi everyone! After toying with the idea for a while I've decided to get my first camper. I'd say max budget will be under €9k so I'm probably limited to early Ducato or Talbot models.
I've done a fair bit of reading here on boards and other online sources but don't really have any friends who know anything about campers. From what I've read, rust and damp seem to be the biggest concern. Now I do have friends who have had cars and vans with big rust issues so hopefully they can check underneath for any rot. As for the inside, should I be checking under carpet, inside cupboards, behind fridges, etc for damp or is it a little harder to find than that?

Also, what are the pros and cons of different size campers? I don't really need a 6 berth as it will mostly be used by just myself and the missus but it's nice to have space all the same if diesel usage isn't massively different.

I haven't rang about any yet as I'm still researching but so far the only ones in my price range I like the look of are:

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/fiat-hymer/14223248

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/5-berth-peugeot-talbot-camper/13728535

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/fiat-ducato-camper/13720639

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/6-berth-fiat-ducato-turbo-diesel/14223287

http://touch.adverts.ie/campers-motorhomes/fiat-ducato-ci-6berth-motorhome-doe-taxed/10848510

Only one is from a dealer and it's a place in Wexford. Anyone have any dealings with the place? I might check out the one in galway seem as it's nearby.

Thanks in advance for any advice offered. It's daunting for a first timer!!!

SeamusG97

sean61 wrote: »

Hi everyone! After toying with the idea for a while I've decided to get my first camper. I'd say max budget will be under €9k so I'm probably limited to early Ducato or Talbot models.
I've done a fair bit of reading here on boards and other online sources but don't really have any friends who know anything about campers. From what I've read, rust and damp seem to be the biggest concern. Now I do have friends who have had cars and vans with big rust issues so hopefully they can check underneath for any rot. As for the inside, should I be checking under carpet, inside cupboards, behind fridges, etc for damp or is it a little harder to find than that?

Also, what are the pros and cons of different size campers? I don't really need a 6 berth as it will mostly be used by just myself and the missus but it's nice to have space all the same if diesel usage isn't massively different.

I haven't rang about any yet as I'm still researching but so far the only ones in my price range I like the look of are:

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/fiat-hymer/14223248

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/5-berth-peugeot-talbot-camper/13728535

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/fiat-ducato-camper/13720639

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/6-berth-fiat-ducato-turbo-diesel/14223287

http://touch.adverts.ie/campers-motorhomes/fiat-ducato-ci-6berth-motorhome-doe-taxed/10848510

Only one is from a dealer and it's a place in Wexford. Anyone have any dealings with the place? I might check out the one in galway seem as it's nearby.

Thanks in advance for any advice offered. It's daunting for a first timer!!!

Smaller ie shorter is better within reason. If there are only two of you then you probably don't need a 7metre van. Diesel consumption won't be massively different based on length. How and where you drive will determine this mostly. I'd look at internal layouts more than anything else. Go look at as many as you can and see what fits your needs. Where do you want to sleep? How much time will you spend cooking / entertaining ? Where will it parked when not in use.
Best advice though is go for it. You'll never regret it.

crabbypaddy

Buy a van that suits you, not one that suits the people that may or may not ever join you. A lot of the 6 berths rather than giving you extra space will have cramped dinettes and lots of pokey spaces.

I know people who made that fatal error and ended up with a van that hadn't a single comfortable seating area and the main double bed took up the aisle by the cooker so people going to the loo had to clamber over sleepers feet. Their old 3 berth was a fraction of the size but had comfy swivel seats in the cab and a very comfy dining area and a larger double bed so for the two of them it had much more useful living space.

Definitely go look at a variety of vans at a local dealer tier an idea of what you like and sit and stand and lie in them and think about the nightime as well as daytime layouts.

Space to dance is the most important thing...even if you don't

Moomat

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Space to dance is the most important thing...even if you don't

All depends on the type of dancing. Some take surprisingly little space!

sean61

I doubt we'll be using it much for entertaining. We're in our late 20's so it will mainly for heading off on long weekends and used as a place to sleep and a bit of cooking.
I can park it at my house which has plenty of space in the drive so that isn't an issue on deciding what to buy either.
I had a look at the galway one yesterday. It's a traveller that's selling it but it was actually in very good shape. Not a bit of rust or damp to be seen and we spent an hour poking around inside and underneath. I'm hoping to have a look at another in kildare tomorrow which is a bit more expensive but sounds like a decent van. I guess it's just a matter of checking out a few and picking the best!

SeamusG97

sean61 wrote: »

I doubt we'll be using it much for entertaining. We're in our late 20's so it will mainly for heading off on long weekends and used as a place to sleep and a bit of cooking.
I can park it at my house which has plenty of space in the drive so that isn't an issue on deciding what to buy either.
I had a look at the galway one yesterday. It's a traveller that's selling it but it was actually in very good shape. Not a bit of rust or damp to be seen and we spent an hour poking around inside and underneath. I'm hoping to have a look at another in kildare tomorrow which is a bit more expensive but sounds like a decent van. I guess it's just a matter of checking out a few and picking the best!

I areee with the advice of crabbypaddy. Layout is the most important thing. A bit like buying a house. You know what you need / like better than anyone. Layouts vary just as much as they do with bricks and mortar. Definitely go look at and sit in as many vans as you can. Dealers offer a good variety - even if the price is out of your reach you can always have a look.

CelticRambler

sean61 wrote: »

I doubt we'll be using it much for entertaining. We're in our late 20's so it will mainly for heading off on long weekends and used as a place to sleep and a bit of cooking.

If you get a decent 'van, you'll find you'll quickly want to do more than just "a bit of cooking" and a good 'van, well looked after by yourself, will last years, so think beyond the bare minimum. At the very least, imagine yourselves going on a two-week continental trip (well worth it, although two months is better :pac: ) and how you'd use the space then.

sean61

Thanks for all the replies and advice. I looked at a few and bought the 97 ducato euramobil in the end. It's fairly compact and has extra worktop and storage space rather than another seat/bed in the aisle so plenty of room to cook. It needs one or two minor fixes but nothing i won't be able take care of myself!

The leisure battery looks quiet small, although I haven't removed it to see what size it actually is. On my voltmeter the voltage does drop to about 12v after having lights and the heater fan on for a few mins so maybe a new one would be a good investment?

Apart from that everything seems in order. The previous owner turned everything on to show they work but didn't really explain how to use them properly. I've figured out how to operate the trumatic gas heater, the trumastore boiler is next but i think i have that figured out from reading online. The fridge I'm a bit stuck on, how do I switch between 12v/240v/gas?

I can't wait to get away for a night or two and see what it's all about 😀

CelticRambler

Depends on the fridge model. Some need to be manually switched; some (like mine) know what's available and do it themselves. Everything should have a model number on it somewhere - you can usually get a copy of the manual online if you google hard enough (make sure to put the model number in quotes)

Moomat

Congratualtions! happy camping

SeamusG97

Congratulations and welcome to the world of Motorhoming!

SeamusG97

CelticRambler wrote: »

Depends on the fridge model. Some need to be manually switched; some (like mine) know what's available and do it themselves. Everything should have a model number on it somewhere - you can usually get a copy of the manual online if you google hard enough (make sure to put the model number in quotes)

Or, failing that, post a pic of the control panel and someone on here will be able to figure it out for you.

sean61

sean61 wrote: »

On my voltmeter the voltage does drop to about 12v after having lights and the heater fan on for a few mins so maybe a new one would be a good investment?

Voltage ballparkometer.

crabbypaddy

Assuming its a flooded battery then the first thing I would do before charging it is check the electrolyte levels in the cells, if any cells are very low with plates exposed theres a good chance its scrap. You need to have enough electrolyte to cover the plates before charging, if not top it up with deionised water just enough to cover the plates, then when its been fully charged you can top it up the rest of the way if necessary. I would charge it for at least 24 hours before making any assessment of the state of it.

You can open and water sealed batteries too if you are persuasive. Not gel or AGM though.

Freddiestar

Would a campervan be any good as a daily use vehicle?

Something like a VW, thinking of selling the saloon and getting a campervan, sorry OP, don't mean to hijack

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/vw-t5-transporter-campervan-2007/14321319

Mine's a daily. 6 pallet payload van. Parkable/livable/decent mpg.

crabbypaddy

Freddiestar wrote: »

Would a campervan be any good as a daily use vehicle?

Something like a VW, thinking of selling the saloon and getting a campervan, sorry OP, don't mean to hijack

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/vw-t5-transporter-campervan-2007/14321319

Looks nice, make a great van for days out, I would have loved one a few years ago, now I'd go for a small car and a bigger van. You'll have to pay an extra 500 or so insurance to make it a daily driver, and if you already have a diesel saloon it will probably be 10-15mpg less economical so not much saving over running the car and a van. It won't fit in all car parks as he says in the ad will fit in the majority though. I've come accross a few 1.8m, a good few 1.85m and lots of 1.9m height barriers around the country.

crabbypaddy

By the way if you are thinking about buying it, definitely get a mechanic who'd be familiar with them to look at it. At 210k miles on any diesel you could easily be looking at injectors, pumps, turbo, dmf (may not have one in this year) and clutch, gearbox etc. the PD engine comes with its own issues like injector loom failures, cams and cam followers wearing.

It does look like its been someones baby though to theres a good chance its in good nick.

sean61

By the looks of it I think it's a car battery someone has fitted instead of a leisure battery. After charging it up properly it seems to last as long as I've needed it so far but I'm going to pick up a proper 105ah leisure battery this week.

I had my first stay in it over the weekend. Hot shower, heater running all night and a fry up in the morning. I wish I bought one years ago now!!!

Car batteries are cheaper than car batteries with leisure battery stickers on them.
If it's working why change it? Use it til it doesn't.

sean61

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Car batteries are cheaper than car batteries with leisure battery stickers on them.
If it's working why change it? Use it til it doesn't.

Well the voltage drops pretty quickly when in use. It looks old as well as being a small car battery so I'd like to change it for peace of mind. I get good deals on batteries from a friend anyway so it's no biggie

Alkers

Freddiestar wrote:

Something like a VW, thinking of selling the saloon and getting a campervan, sorry OP, don't mean to hijack

See if you can get insurance without a raising roof first, it may prove difficult even though by law it.ianr required.

sean61

sean61 wrote: »

Well the voltage drops pretty quickly when in use.

That's one of the many problems using voltage as a state of charge indicator for lead acid. The voltage will sag under load, and more significantly so when it's a large load on a small battery. The ballparkometer is only accurate after 24 hours of the battery at rest after the charge inside the plates has reached the surface.

If I had a serviceable battery and money to spend on a charge/power system enhancement I'd spend on solar PV first that acts like a second battery but lasts >25 years rather than another battery that lasts 3 to 5 years.

or I'd get a proper battery monitor.
My €0.02.

worded

Hi, does he ins co expect
you to have a car and a camper in case you
Are using it for every day use ? Or do they expect low
Mileage on a camper van ?

Freddiestar

This looks like a good deal, LHD too for continental trips, any thoughts?

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/7-berth-a-class-campervan/14384897

Moomat

Freddiestar wrote: »

This looks like a good deal, LHD too for continental trips, any thoughts?

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/7-berth-a-class-campervan/14384897

Looks like a nice camper. The first thing I'd be considering is how close it is to the 3500kg. No point in being under the 3500 if you can't put anything in it. Get the unladen weight and I suppose you would want around at least 600-800kg for people, fuel, gear etc

Moomat

worded wrote: »

Hi, does he ins co expect
you to have a car and a camper in case you
Are using it for every day use ? Or do they expect low
Mileage on a camper van ?

You need to show the insurance provider proof of access to another vehicle. iirc, they will even accept a company car. Otherwise they will up the price of the insurance by around 100%

sean61

Moomat wrote: »

Looks like a nice camper. The first thing I'd be considering is how close it is to the 3500kg. No point in being under the 3500 if you can't put anything in it. Get the unladen weight and I suppose you would want around at least 600-800kg for people, fuel, gear etc

Is it typical for camper owners to have their vehicles weighed? Mine is 3200kg according to the plate. I'd say it would still be under 3500 loaded up but can't be sure really

CJhaughey

sean61 wrote: »

Is it typical for camper owners to have their vehicles weighed? Mine is 3200kg according to the plate. I'd say it would still be under 3500 loaded up but can't be sure really

I'd take it to the dump.

Get a printout from the person there and use that as a guide.
Once the tanks are topped off, water fuel and waste, plus people and food, drink etc it could be very close or even over max weight.

Alkers

sean61 wrote: »

Is it typical for camper owners to have their vehicles weighed? Mine is 3200kg according to the plate. I'd say it would still be under 3500 loaded up but can't be sure really

Is the 3200kg not the DGVW i.e. the maximum permitted weight of the vehicle fully laden? What does the CVRT disc say?

crabbypaddy

Simona1986 wrote: »

Is the 3200kg not the DGVW i.e. the maximum permitted weight of the vehicle fully laden? What does the CVRT disc say?

3200kg is very common, coachbuilders saved a few quid by buying lightweight ducato chassis rather than the 1.8ton payload maxi chassis.

Alkers

crabbypaddy wrote: »

3200kg is very common, coachbuilders saved a few quid by buying lightweight ducato chassis rather than the 1.8ton payload maxi chassis.

I appreciate that but if you go and get the vehicle weighed and it comes in at 3300kg and is plated 3200kg you could be prosecuted for driving overloaded.

crabbypaddy

Simona1986 wrote: »

I appreciate that but if you go and get the vehicle weighed and it comes in at 3300kg and is plated 3200kg you could be prosecuted for driving overloaded.

It's a much bigger issue than people think VOSA in UK found 80% of motohomes overloaded at the port back around 2009. Buyer beware.

Very unlikely you'd be prosecuted here though if you were weighed €200 fine and 1 penalty point.

In UK you have to be 30% over to be prosecuted. Europe is a different story.

Hrmm...anyone fancy a Hydrogen conversion? Fill the gas tank..lose weight?

crabbypaddy

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Hrmm...anyone fancy a Hydrogen conversion? Fill the gas tank..lose weight?

Lol reminds me of Gilbert Grape .. Match in the gas tank boom boom.

CelticRambler

Something to be aware of, if you plan to take the 'van to the continent, is it's eco-rating. I've recently received an e-mail from Antwerp telling me that my 2003 Ducato is no longer welcome in the city's LEZ, where my favourite long-stay carpark is located, and this last week in France I would have been subject to severe restrictions when visiting Lyon and Grenoble, and even trying to by-pass Paris.

sean61

Simona1986 wrote: »

Is the 3200kg not the DGVW i.e. the maximum permitted weight of the vehicle fully laden? What does the CVRT disc say?

CVRT disc says 3200kg. Is that the fully laden weight? It's a pretty small camper, I'd like to hope it's still under 3500 with a decent load

sean61

CelticRambler wrote: »

Something to be aware of, if you plan to take the 'van to the continent, is it's eco-rating. I've recently received an e-mail from Antwerp telling me that my 2003 Ducato is no longer welcome in the city's LEZ, where my favourite long-stay carpark is located, and this last week in France I would have been subject to severe restrictions when visiting Lyon and Grenoble, and even trying to by-pass Paris.

Well you learn something new everyday! Are there many more cities like this?

crabbypaddy

sean61 wrote: »

CVRT disc says 3200kg. Is that the fully laden weight? It's a pretty small camper, I'd like to hope it's still under 3500 with a decent load

That should be GVW check the plate under the bonnet if its ducato based the its in left side of the slam panel under the bonnet, other base vehicles often have it onthe firewall. Some manufacturers uprate the chassis and affix a second plate with higher weight over or alongside the original.

I think the actual weight is listed on the pass sheet if not the CVRT center could probably tell you if you ask nicely.

crabbypaddy

sean61 wrote: »

Well you learn something new everyday! Are there many more cities like this?

A couple of hundred, the minimum standard varies and some cities it only applies to vehicle over 3.5 tons.

Theres a handy grid here, you can click camper van, then click diesel lez column to sort.

http://urbanaccessregulations.eu/scheme-by-vehicle-type

CelticRambler

Three in France at the moment (Paris, Lyon, Grenoble) and 22 more to come (Strasbourg next)

Avignon - Communauté d’agglomération d’Avignon
Arras - Communauté urbaine d’Arras
Annemasse - Communauté d’agglomération d’Annemasse
Bordeaux - Métropole de Bordeaux
Cannes - Communauté d’agglomération du Pays de Lérins – Cannes
Clermont-Ferrand - Métropole de Clermont-Ferrand
Champlan
Côte Basque-Adour - Communauté d’agglomération Côte Basque-Adour
Dunkerque - Communauté urbaine de Dunkerque
Dijon - Communauté urbaine de Dijon
Epernay - Communauté d’agglomération d’Epernay
Faucigny, Glières, Bonneville Communauté de communes Faucigny-Glières-Bonneville
Grenoble - Métropole de Grenoble
Lyon - Métropole de Lyon
Lille - Métropole de Lille
Le Havre - Communauté d’agglomération du Havre
Montpellier - Métropole de Montpellier
Paris - Mission de préfiguration de la Métropole du Grand Paris
Reims - Métropole de Reims
Rouen - Métropole de Rouen
Saint-Etienne - Métropole de Saint-Etienne
Strasbourg Métropole de Strasbourg
Saint Maur-des-Fossés
Toulouse - Métropole de Toulouse
Vallée de la Marne - CA de la Vallée de la Marne

From a motorhomer's point of view, it obviously depends on whether you're likely to visit or pass through any of the regulated areas and how exactly they're regulated. In the case of Paris, for example, I would normally by-pass it on the west, but on my last three trips northward, I went east (once to drop someone off at the bus station) and took the route that now lies inside the LEZ (ZCR in French!).

The thing to remember for France is that the new rules mean that if you don't have the new vignette, you're banned outright from the designated zones (08h-20h) and all diesel vehicles over 20 years of age are automatically banned; if you do have a vignette, permission or prohibition depends on what number you've been awarded and the way the local authority implements the system day-to-day. Today, for example, vehicles in category 5 - 1997-2001 - are also banned in Paris, from 05h30 to midnight. In Lyon, only categories 1, 2 and 3 have unrestricted access.

I'm more frustrated about the Antwerp restriction, because I would make one 2km journey to the long-stay carpark at the end of a day, not move for two or three days, then leave early on the fourth day. To do that now, I'd have to buy two expensive day-passes, making it cheaper to stay on the out-of-centre campsite - but then you have to get public transport back into the centre, which is a lot less convenient (not to mention the annoyance of paying for "campsite" facilities when all you want is a parking spot )

fire3038

CelticRambler wrote: »

Three in France at the moment (Paris, Lyon, Grenoble) and 22 more to come (Strasbourg next)


From a motorhomer's point of view, it obviously depends on whether you're likely to visit or pass hrough any of the regulated areas and how exactly they're regulated. In the case of Paris, for example, I would normally by-pass it on the west, but on my last three trips northward, I went east (once to drop someone off at the bus station) and took the route that now lies inside the LEZ (ZCR in French!).

The thing to remember for France is that the new rules mean that if you don't have the new vignette, you're banned outright from the designated zones (08h-20h) and all diesel vehicles over 20 years of age are automatically banned; if you do have a vignette, permission or prohibition depends on what number you've been awarded and the way the local authority implements the system day-to-day. Today, for example, vehicles in category 5 - 1997-2001 - are also banned in Paris, from 05h30 to midnight. In Lyon, only categories 1, 2 and 3 have unrestricted access.

I'm more frustrated about the Antwerp restriction, because I would make one 2km journey to the long-stay carpark at the end of a day, not move for two or three days, then leave early on the fourth day. To do that now, I'd have to buy two expensive day-passes, making it cheaper to stay on the out-of-centre campsite - but then you have to get public transport back into the centre, which is a lot less convenient (not to mention the annoyance of paying for "campsite" facilities when all you want is a parking spot )

Can you bring a 20+ year old to France at all . Also what's the story in Italy

Moomat

fire3038 wrote: »

Can you bring a 20+ year old to France at all . Also what's the story in Italy

I would hope so or our near 30 year old is going to miss a great holiday!

I'm pretty sure these regulations involve densely packed urban centres, thankfully there's much more to France than that. I never had an issue in Italy but as with France, we usually stay rural.

crabbypaddy

fire3038 wrote: »

Can you bring a 20+ year old to France at all . Also what's the story in Italy

Its all in the link I posted above, e.g. select italy, click campervan and it will show you all the height, weight, emissions restrictions for the whole of italy. If you just want to see emissions click the emissions column title to sort then click on the restriction and it will give you all the details you need including maps.

fire3038

crabbypaddy wrote: »

Its all in the link I posted above, e.g. select italy, click campervan and it will show you all the height, weight, emissions restrictions for the whole of italy. If you just want to see emissions click the emissions column title to sort then click on the restriction and it will give you all the details you need including maps.

Thanks folks , I'm about to buy a 1995 camper and thought it might not be able to travel on continent.. so the rule might be to stay out of city centres etc. I might dip back in to forum periodically for advice
Thanks again