What router are you using?

hick

So given the amount of connected devices now amazing in our homes, choosing the right router these days is really important. There's a huge amount of chatter happening in the background before you factor in streaming.

I'm scoping out new routers now for the new house, I like the Archer 2600 and asus-rt-ac88u but interested to hear what others are using.

listermint

I've the archer c2600, would I get rid of it hell no.

Roen

Asus-rt-ac68u running the latest Kong build of DDWRT.

Solid out and hasn't required a reboot for 6 months (and only then cos I fecked up, not the router).

Got it cheap as chips from amazon.de on a special.

bk

TP Link Archer C7. It is a few years old now, but still absolutely rock solid, I haven't rebooted it in years now! The C8 and C9 would be the modern replacement for them and I'd highly recommend them as an affordable replacement router.

Some tips.

- Connect every device that you can directly to the router via ethernet.
- If you have ethernet ports in every room then connect your devices to them that can be connected. Put cheap ethernet switches in every room if need be.

If you have a particularly large home, then you might benefit from one of the many new multi-router solutions that launched this year.

JAMM222

bk wrote: »

TP Link Archer C7. It is a few years old now, but still absolutely rock solid, I haven't rebooted it in years now! The C8 and C9 would be the modern replacement for them and I'd highly recommend them as an affordable replacement router.

Some tips.

- Connect every device that you can directly to the router via ethernet.
- If you have ethernet ports in every room then connect your devices to them that can be connected. Put cheap ethernet switches in every room if need be.

If you have a particularly large home, then you might benefit from one of the many new multi-router solutions that launched this year.

Google onhub....amazing

hick

bk wrote: »

If you have a particularly large home, then you might benefit from one of the many new multi-router solutions that launched this year.

I like the idea of a mesh network and def agree about Ethernet where possible, currently trying to get as much flat cat 6 put behind skirting board!

I've been checking out Ubiquiti....shame amplifi isn't over here yet

bk

hick wrote: »

I like the idea of a mesh network and def agree about Ethernet where possible, currently trying to get as much flat cat 6 put behind skirting board!

I've been checking out Ubiquiti....shame amplifi isn't over here yet

Yes, the mesh network stuff is very interesting and Ubiquiti's enterprise gear is excellent. However I'm not so impressed by their Ampifi system and I don't think I'd recommend it to you with your setup.

The problem with it is that it uses wifi for the backhaul. But if you have cat 6 in each room, then it makes no sense to use wifi as the backhaul, as it is less reliable and will just reduce the performance of the wifi. I think it would be better for you to get one of the mesh networks that supports ethernet as an option for backhaul and use those instead. You will get much better performance.

BTW for others reading this. The mesh network stuff is cool, but I wouldn't recommend it for most people. Most people just don't need it and it would be expensive overkill. It isn't really needed for your typical 3 to 4 bedroom Irish home. It is really only needed for much bigger homes with serious black spots.

Most typical Irish homes would be easily covered by a single good quality router like one of the TP-Link models mentioned above. IME on the broadband forum, when people have issues, it is usually caused by crappy low quality ISP supplied routers. In the past, when I've given advice to them to buy one of the TP-Link models, I'd say easily 95% of the people find all their issues go away and they get pretty great performance throughout the house. Sure then there is the 5% with really large houses and they then need a mesh network to fill the gaps. But I wouldn't start there, I'd start with a decent TP-Link router first.

BTW some more tips:
- Try and put your new router in a central location in your home and if you can try and put it high up, like ontop of a book case.

Moving more TP-Link router from the bottom of a bookcase to the top of it saw me get a 80Mb/s boost in performance throughout the house! So small adjustments around placement of the router can make a big difference.

I know not everyone can do that due to looks or placement of the incoming broadband, but worth keeping in mind if you can.

Stoner

JAMM222 wrote:

Google onhub....amazing

Yep me too. Switched from a TP Link AC1750
The OnHub has changed the whole shape of things for me.

Plus it's IFTTT certified

Reati

Stoner wrote: »

Yep me too. Switched from a TP Link AC1750
The OnHub has changed the whole shape of things for me.

Plus it's IFTTT certified

Can you get OnHub here or do i need to pick one up on a trip the the US?

jester77

EdgeRouter, great piece of kit plus provides POE to my ethernet ports around the house.

eddiem74

Am still using my Eir F2000 router which is connected to a Sam Knows router for broadband monitoring.

I try to connect all boxes (Sky, Xbox, PS4, etc) via ethernet and leave wifi for phones and tablets.

It seems to be working fine with no complaints from the users or maybe that is due to not knowing any better?

Using Z-Wave mesh for HA.

The high horse brigade

300 quid isn't much to pay for a decent home setup, but I'd be expecting several devices


I have a Mikrotik 24 port CRS Cloud Router Switch with a bridged Eir F2000 as modem in a cabinet in the attic and have 2 Mikrotik wAPs for dual band wireless roaming throughout the house. All static devices are on Ethernet

Stoner

Reati wrote:

Can you get OnHub here or do i need to pick one up on a trip the the US?

I picked it up off a guy who works for Google. But they were $99 just before Christmas. It is a whole house solution for me anyway .

It has 14 antennas including a ZigBee unit. It has guarnateed significant updates every 5 months . It's IFTTT approved and it it added a nice family feature recently. I don't use it exclusively though . I still VPN and have a second router

NomadicGray

The stock sky one

Dont think they provide you the details to use your own, but theres work arounds.
My speeds are ****e though so I need to ring them and get a better deal or move to virgin.

bk

Stoner wrote: »

It has 14 antennas including a ZigBee unit. It has guarnateed significant updates every 5 months . It's IFTTT approved and it it added a nice family feature recently. I don't use it exclusively though . I still VPN and have a second router

I wouldn't get too carried away with the 14 antennas. It is a AC1900 router, which is very good, but nothing super special either, it wouldn't perform any faster or have better range then any other AC1900 router.

The truth is that for the majority of Irish homes, an AC1900 router is more then good enough as a whole home solution.

Stoner, as I mentioned in the other thread, you should double check that it isn't using US frequencies and power output levels. I don't think it would be a good idea to recommend it to Irish users if it is, not until it officially supports Ireland.

The high horse brigade has a seriously cool setup, enterprise wifi level setup. But in truth probably massive overkill for most people unless you have a seriously large home.

From my experience over on the broadband forum, when most people have issues with wifi speed or dead spots, it is because they are using old, 802.11n only and/or single channel radio routers which are terrible. From my experience having them upgrade to a AC1900 router like the TP Link C9 or similar fixes all the performance, reliability and coverage problems that 95% of people have, who live in a typical Irish sized home.

For the final 5% who live in a seriously large home. Then a multi AP setup like The high horse brigade has is the solution. But I wouldn't start there for most people as it is probably overkill and can cause issues with device roaming etc.

Some other tips:
- Connect everything directly by ethernet to your router that can be. Try and keep the wifi for mobile devices only. It increases the reliability of the whole setup.
- If building a new home or you can retrofit, then put lots of ethernet cable in, Cat6
- Try and put your AC1900 router in a central location in your home. Also try and put it up high, ontop of a book shelf, etc. This greatly improve wireless performance.

Stoner

bk wrote:

I wouldn't get too carried away with the 14 antennas. It is a AC1900 router, which is very good, but nothing super special either, it wouldn't perform any faster or have better range then any other AC1900 router.

Mine is not the AC1900 router, it's the first gen. Asus and TP Link made them I think. One had fewer antennas than the other the AC 1900 has less I think, 3 or 4 less but if it's a whole house system too then great stuff
But like all three the ZigBee and Bluetooth are not enabled on it either.

For 99 or 120 dollars it's a great buy. I had the AC 175O and sold it.
The latest OnHub is the same unit as the AC1900. Regardless of the HW they seem to have the same range .

The speed is standard enough.

However for me, with port forwarding and messing with static and dynamic IP addresses I need more than one router anyway . I just have one wireless solution . OnHub is deliberately not good at allowing messing with settings

I just like the interface on the Google unit. I've all my iot units on a switch fed from it.

That's another thing to consider there is only one port on the Google unit.

If you want to plug more than one wired point into it then you will need a switch.

This didn't bother me as I didn't want 6 leads running into it as it's on display/ positioned for max distribution. I would have used a switch anyway

I'm hoping Google update it more too.

ED E

If you're a serious tinkerer then PFSense is your man.

shanec1928

Meraki mx64 with a MR18 providing wifi.

Stoner

bk wrote:

Stoner, as I mentioned in the other thread, you should double check that it isn't using US frequencies and power output levels. I don't think it would be a good idea to recommend it to Irish users if it is, not until it officially supports Ireland.

Well it's going on sale in the UK now. But fair point

The high horse brigade

Stoner wrote: »

Well it's going on sale in the UK now. But fair point

Lots of routers are for sale in both markets but restrict themselves when you select the country in settings. At the moment you will not able to select Ireland to set to Irish regulations so yours will be able to use some channels we are not supposed to be using here (and missing others by being set to USA). There's little chance you'll have Comreg at your door but you could have issues with some devices connecting that are restricted to looking for Irish or even European frequencies.

Stoner

bk wrote:

Stoner, as I mentioned in the other thread, you should double check that it isn't using US frequencies and power output levels. I don't think it would be a good idea to recommend it to Irish users if it is, not until it officially supports Ireland.

Just on this, I know it's fine in the UK.

But to stress a point. This is the iot forum and I've added some applets recently for example.
When my ring door bell detects motion it gets a boosted wifi signal from the router it's IFTTT approved.
I shouldn't need this at the ring door bell as I have wifi on the street but recently I got two notifications to say it has a poor signal.

Note I have an 18 month only network technician/ electrician at home who adjusts things hourly.

But it was handy to have this feature. It's one of the few really useful IFTTT features I've used to sort out an issue for me without doing any physical changes
I'm not sure too many routers have these features, I'm sure they will soon. But two months ago when I got this it was the only one that had.

Stoner

ED E wrote:

If you're a serious tinkerer then PFSense is your man.

Would the SG1000 be a good choice for a house.

You get the pfsense gold member with it. $150

It's much lower specs that the one above at 220 but you've no membership to the forums and training that would be another 100.

I'd need the support, I attempted a firewall build 15 years ago it worked, next one I had was a bought unit. So I'm pretty rusty.

I've nothing now and made a call to buddy about it last week. These units seem to be exactly what I'm looking for. Thank you.

.G.

Archer C8 for me, miles better than the new Virgin Media hub they sent me.

theteal

shanec1928 wrote: »

Meraki mx64 with a MR18 providing wifi.

We use 65s for small client sites. Such a breath of fresh air compared to the ubiquity pieces of poo they're replacing

bk

Trying to bring together the two threads.

Stoner wrote: »

One off its antennas is ZigBee ,5 are 2.4 and 5 are 5Ghz , one is Bluetooth , not sure about the other two , one is weave I'll have to look into them

It seems like the Zigbee one is specifically for Nests Thread/Weave protocol and at least for now it doesn't seem to be available for general zigbee devices (why the Hue support still requires a separate Hue bridge).

I think Nests Thread protocol is dead at Google and instead Weave has been transformed into a higher level protocol, which is a webservice for bringing together IoT devices to Google Assistant/Home.

I think Google had planned to use OnHub as a central hardware point/hub for IoT, but I think they have now abandoned this idea and are instead going at integration at the software level, similar to Alexa, a wise decision I think, one that Apple needs to make too IMO.

The OnHub's also have a bunch of extra antennas for wifi, which is certainly very interesting. Though in benchmark testing it doesn't seem to prove that actually make a difference, in terms of both performance and range, they rank near the bottom compared to other AC1900 routers.

However one thing that I do think Google gets right, is they designed their router to look nice so that it can sit on a shelf or table in the open. This is good as putting a router in a more central location and putting it higher up can greatly help boost both performance and range. This is why corporate wifi access points are usually placed on the ceiling (like smoke detectors) or high up on a side wall, as it greatly helps improve performance. I got a 80Mb/s improvement in performance throughout my apartment from my router by simply moving it from the bottom of a book shelf to the top of it!

Most other companies look super ugly and you want to hide them away under a table which really hurts performance. I wish more companies followed Googles approach. I suspect this is the reason for the unusual antenna layout. You need quite a different antenna approach to get similar performance in a nice looking case with non of the ugly big pointy antennas in traditional routers (which in fairness, while they look ugly, really help performance).

Also I agree that Google has the correct approach with their nice, easy to use app for setup and admin and I also love their approach of using a speaker to make an unaudible sound to make setup really easy. I'd love to see TP-Link, Netgear, Asus, etc. follow suit. They do seem to be improving their admin setup and approach but certainly not as quickly as Google.

I have to say, it does fell like Google has lots of great ideas, but that they also at times feel a bit direction-less and that they need to pull a lot of this together into one device. For instance, the OnHub, is designed to sit on your table and even has a speaker, but no mics, so it can't be used like Google Home. Google Home is also designed to sit on your table, has speaker and mics, but no wifi features. The new Google Wifi is deisgned to sit on the table in each room in your house, but has no speaker or mics!!

See where I'm going here? A really obvious solution would be if they created an optional (more expensive) version of Google Home that was a little larger and had the Google Wifi built into it. Then you could have a Google Home+Wifi in each room giving you potentially great wifi performance and Home features in every room.

Stoner wrote: »

Well it's going on sale in the UK now. But fair point

Brilliant. Routers from most companies use the same hardware around the world (other then the plug obviously) and simply use a setting in the admin interface to set your location, which then limits (or opens up) the frequencies and power outputs allowed in that region.

So hopefully a firmware update will also allow you to configure your US bought one to comply with the Irish/EU restrictions.

Stoner wrote: »

I'm hoping Google update it more too.

Well I think using it as an IoT hub is largely dead, but the great news is that they still seem to be updating it's wifi features.

One very cool feature that they have added that may be of interest to you, is that you can use them with Google Wifi or as Google Wifi devices. So if for instance you wanted to improve your coverage Stoner, you could buy a second or even third OnHub and they would all act as Google Wifi spots around your home. That would make for a very nice setup as each OnHub is a 3x3 AC1900 device, while Google Wifi and other mesh networks are only AC1200 2x2 devices, so a couple of OnHubs would likely give you better performance.

Stoner

bk wrote:

Well I think using it as an IoT hub is largely dead, but the great news is that they still seem to be updating it's wifi features.

But with respect to comparability, power and strength of the signals aside, I'm not that concerned about the frequencies currently being used I did pop the note on the sticky though as it's a good point that I hadn't considered

Also who knows what can be switched on by Google . There's about 4 antennas switched off in the firmware

These units might have been expected to deliver google home functionality since they have a speaker that's hardly ever used built in.

And on your note the last update you lost OnHub name as the unit is now just bundled with Google wifi so that seems to be the case alright

eddiem74

Of the TP Link routers would this be the way to go, seems to be one of their latest?

http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/cat-9_Archer-C3150.html

bk

eddiem74 wrote: »

Of the TP Link routers would this be the way to go, seems to be one of their latest?

http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/cat-9_Archer-C3150.html

Yes, it is one of their latest, but is also probably a waste of money.

Anything above AC1900 class (this is an AC3150) is pure marketing and the vast majority of people would get no benefit from it. Your client devices also need to support the same spec, but almost nothing currently or for the next few years will support AC3150, etc. that is why it is largely a waste outside of very specific advanced uses (e.g. two of them set up as a wireless bridge).

In the real world the Archer C9 will give you just as good performance for half the price:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Networking-Devices/TP-LINK-C9-Wireless-Gigabit-Beamforming-Efficient-Sharing/B00KO15KV4/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1483303837&sr=1-1&keywords=Archer+c9

If you aren't in a rush, then Amazon has a great deal on the even slightly better Asus AC1900 router for just £80:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Wireless-Access-Points/ASUS-AC1900-Gigabit-Router-Server-Dongle-Support/B00FB45SI4/ref=sr_1_4?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1483303915&sr=1-4&keywords=asus+router

Really great deal, it is currently out of stock, but you can order it at that price.

hick

Any view on Archer D9 (as opposed to C9)
It's on offer with modem down to £89 on Amazon this morning. C9 is £85, no modem. Would prefer modem to give options down the line, depending on what crock new isp provides.

eddiem74

bk wrote: »

Yes, it is one of their latest, but is also probably a waste of money.

Anything above AC1900 class (this is an AC3150) is pure marketing and the vast majority of people would get no benefit from it. Your client devices also need to support the same spec, but almost nothing currently or for the next few years will support AC3150, etc. that is why it is largely a waste outside of very specific advanced uses (e.g. two of them set up as a wireless bridge).

In the real world the Archer C9 will give you just as good performance for half the price:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Networking-Devices/TP-LINK-C9-Wireless-Gigabit-Beamforming-Efficient-Sharing/B00KO15KV4/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1483303837&sr=1-1&keywords=Archer+c9

If you aren't in a rush, then Amazon has a great deal on the even slightly better Asus AC1900 router for just £80:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Wireless-Access-Points/ASUS-AC1900-Gigabit-Router-Server-Dongle-Support/B00FB45SI4/ref=sr_1_4?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1483303915&sr=1-4&keywords=asus+router

Really great deal, it is currently out of stock, but you can order it at that price.

While I see the great reviews both routers are a few years old now, is that not a concern when it comes to router technology? Or firmware handles all that? Also is MIMO not worth having?

The high horse brigade

hick wrote: »

Any view on Archer D9 (as opposed to C9)
It's on offer with modem down to £89 on Amazon this morning. C9 is £85, no modem. Would prefer modem to give options down the line, depending on what crock new isp provides.

Careful there. There are very few modems compatible with a vectoring technology Eir are using on their VDSL (eFibre). Also in the next few years you will be moving to a fibre to the home connection. You are better off bridging the modem the provider supply and buying a normal router. I know it's two devices but it's future proof, change modem in future and your local network stays as it is.

bk

eddiem74 wrote: »

While I see the great reviews both routers are a few years old now, is that not a concern when it comes to router technology? Or firmware handles all that? Also is MIMO not worth having?

That is right and it is an advantage of them. They are well proven, solid and reliable. Which is really the most important thing you want with your network gear, in particular with relation to smart home tech.

Of course you should update them to the latest firmware to make sure they have the latest bug fixes and performance improvements.

Another advantage of their popularity and slightly older age, is that they also have well developed open source firmware for them (Open-WRT, DD-WRT, etc.) with lots of extra features and stability.

MU-MIMO is a horrible mess. Most of the MIMO chipsets ended up not working at all and have been disabled in firmware or are incredibly buggy. Also your client devices also have to support MIMO for it to work and in reality most don't.

For more info take a look at this article:
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/basics/wireless-basics/33029-how-to-buy-a-wireless-router-2017-edition

And this mess with MIMO shows why it isn't a good idea to buy the latest, most expensive routers. Their new features tend to be horribly buggy and end up causing loads of issues, while they mostly don't work as you also need to have the same support in the client devices for these features to work and most people don't.

I've seen lots of people buy €300 routers and eventually have to return them for older €100 routers, as they had nothing but problems with the fancy expensive ones, having to reboot them, constantly, etc.

IME Better to buy the well regarded, stable, reliable two year old router, then the new hotness.

eddiem74

bk wrote: »

That is right and it is an advantage of them. They are well proven, solid and reliable. Which is really the most important thing you want with your network gear, in particular with relation to smart home tech.

Of course you should update them to the latest firmware to make sure they have the latest bug fixes and performance improvements.

Another advantage of their popularity and slightly older age, is that they also have well developed open source firmware for them (Open-WRT, DD-WRT, etc.) with lots of extra features and stability.

MU-MIMO is a horrible mess. Most of the MIMO chipsets ended up not working at all and have been disabled in firmware or are incredibly buggy. Also your client devices also have to support MIMO for it to work and in reality most don't.

For more info take a look at this article:
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/basics/wireless-basics/33029-how-to-buy-a-wireless-router-2017-edition

And this mess with MIMO shows why it isn't a good idea to buy the latest, most expensive routers. Their new features tend to be horribly buggy and end up causing loads of issues, while they mostly don't work as you also need to have the same support in the client devices for these features to work and most people don't.

I've seen lots of people buy €300 routers and eventually have to return them for older €100 routers, as they had nothing but problems with the fancy expensive ones, having to reboot them, constantly, etc.

IME Better to buy the well regarded, stable, reliable two year old router, then the new hotness.

Thanks BK, interesting reading.

Took a punt on the Asus AC1900, got a Amazon deal on a "used - very good" for £75 delivered so ordered, already dispatched.

AndyBoBandy

I have an Apple AirPort Extreme 2TB as my main router (connected into my Vodafone fibre router (which has wifi disabled)),

I then have 2 Apple Airport Express used as boosters (one over my kitchen units is connected to a set of laptop speakers (with sub) for wireless audio streaming)