Handicap cut?

spoke2cun

With winter rules in operation now, teeing up everywhere, should players still get cut if they post a good score? Some of the lads are now coming in with 45 pts and even a 43 doesn't win!

Dbu

spoke2cun wrote: »

With winter rules in operation now, teeing up everywhere, should players still get cut if they post a good score? Some of the lads are now coming in with 45 pts and even a 43 doesn't win!

I'm always amazed at scores once a player can place the ball.
Its also quite ironic that these guys never figure in summer rules...

Mantis Toboggan

My club has a local rule where they will cut you during winter. Your handicap then restores once summer qualifying comes around. Obviously only applies to club competitions but it stops the same faces winning week after week.

Hoof Hearted2

spoke2cun wrote: »

With winter rules in operation now, teeing up everywhere, should players still get cut if they post a good score? Some of the lads are now coming in with 45 pts and even a 43 doesn't win!

FYI, placing everywhere is just that, placing everywhere, and that does not constitute winter rules.
Winter rules or using it's correct term preferred lies, does not in of itself make a competition non counting.

Dbu wrote: »

I'm always amazed at scores once a player can place the ball.
Its also quite ironic that these guys never figure in summer rules...

It shouldn't amaze you, it's a massive advantage to be able to place the ball everywhere. It generally favors higher handicappers and it's no surprise come summer rules that these same players are freaked out by having to play the ball as it lies.

FixdePitchmark

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

spoke2cun wrote: »

With winter rules in operation now, teeing up everywhere, should players still get cut if they post a good score? Some of the lads are now coming in with 45 pts and even a 43 doesn't win!

FYI, placing everywhere is just that, placing everywhere, and that does not constitute winter rules.
Winter rules or using it's correct term preferred lies, does not in of itself make a competition non counting.

Dbu wrote: »

I'm always amazed at scores once a player can place the ball.
Its also quite ironic that these guys never figure in summer rules...

It shouldn't amaze you, it's a massive advantage to be able to place the ball everywhere. It generally favors higher handicappers and it's no surprise come summer rules that these same players are freaked out by having to play the ball as it lies.

Don't care what rules are in play
Regular 45 point wins are crazy.

Even if you could tee it up.

FixdePitchmark

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

spoke2cun wrote: »

With winter rules in operation now, teeing up everywhere, should players still get cut if they post a good score? Some of the lads are now coming in with 45 pts and even a 43 doesn't win!

FYI, placing everywhere is just that, placing everywhere, and that does not constitute winter rules.
Winter rules or using it's correct term preferred lies, does not in of itself make a competition non counting.

Dbu wrote: »

I'm always amazed at scores once a player can place the ball.
Its also quite ironic that these guys never figure in summer rules...

It shouldn't amaze you, it's a massive advantage to be able to place the ball everywhere. It generally favors higher handicappers and it's no surprise come summer rules that these same players are freaked out by having to play the ball as it lies.

Don't care what rules are in play
Regular 45 point wins are crazy.

Even if you could tee it up.

Russman

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Don't care what rules are in play
Regular 45 point wins are crazy.

Even if you could tee it up.

Ahh the placing makes a huge difference though. Being able to hit driver or 3w where you'd normally have to pitch out is massive for a high handicap. Coupled with (usually) forward tees & slower greens where you just hit it a thump towards the hole, its not that surprising. We go to anything from 11 to 14 holes for the winter, depending on the routing, and we've had 30+pts for 13 holes a number of times already. IMHO its so far removed from "real" golf, it meaningless.

mike12

We have only had a couple of scores in the 40's would be dissapointed if I didn't place with 36 points.
We play of the regular tees and our rough isn't penal any time of the year so any benefit of teeing up should be lost because there isn't any run.

Curly head

35 points for 13 holes in our place the week before last!

Hoof Hearted2

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Don't care what rules are in play
Regular 45 point wins are crazy.

Even if you could tee it up.

Of course you don't care, same as the majority of golfers, like them it's easier to believe that something dodgy is going on when in reality there are extenuating circumstances, but to consider those circumsatnces would involve having a brain and thinking for yourself, sounds too much like hard work to me;).

Senna

We have qualifying in winter for the first time this year, the Xmas hamper was won with a 48,the winner got cut 4 shots for it.
The qualifying seems to make no difference, the scores are high because the course plays easier and as above, it does suit the higher handicaps.

fred funk }{

48! Mother of God.

FixdePitchmark

fred funk }{ wrote: »

48! Mother of God.

Well at least he got cut .

dan_ep82

I think there is a lot of factors to it.

Placing in the rough.
When we ( high HC ) go into the rough its usually well in , those 6" might be just enough to get an angle at the green, or even just back to the fairway.
How many times have you heard a high hc bounce the ball around the woods for 2 or 3 shots or chunk it because the lie is ( predictably) terrible.
Heavy rough? Not a problem, just place it.
Below your feet? Not anymore!


Forward tee's
A 7i instead of a 5i into a Par3 makes it much easier, then add placing onto that.

Pressure
No one really gives a **** in the winter when its not qualifying so less stress usually = better shots/scores. I don't think I've a terrible swing but pressure really kills me on the course, casuals I play much better.

Slower greens as said, sometimes bunkers GUR.

It all adds up. I'm sure there are some who mind their HC until winter but I thinks its a much smaller minority than presumed.

CalamariFritti

I find its a huge difference and rightly not qualifying. Teeing it up in the rough instead of chopping a mucky ball out is huge. Teeing it up around the green instead of chipping off a bare mucky lie is huge.

CalamariFritti

Senna wrote: »

We have qualifying in winter for the first time this year, the Xmas hamper was won with a 48,the winner got cut 4 shots for it.
The qualifying seems to make no difference, the scores are high because the course plays easier and as above, it does suit the higher handicaps.

If you don't mind me asking how does your course play easier? Surely it plays a lot longer now for starters does it not? As in no roll on the ground and balls not really travelling in the air either. Then bare lies and bumpy greens on top of it. I'm amazed at 48.

Senna

CalamariFritti wrote: »

If you don't mind me asking how does your course play easier? Surely it plays a lot longer now for starters does it not? As in no roll on the ground and balls not really travelling in the air either. Then bare lies and bumpy greens on top of it. I'm amazed at 48.

Thankfully our course stands up to the winter weather really well for a parkland, the course is shortened a lot from the winter tees, they had to get the GUI out to measure the course from those tees as it's well outside the buffer. The winter tees has a SSS of 38 and it does show, I would be hitting less/same into greens on most holes, that will probably change when it gets colder, but it's mild now.
Our greens are in good shaft and don't lose it, they are slower and putts just don't break as much, inside 10ft, hit it at the hole harder and you have a good chance of it dropping.

Plus that comp used mats off the fairway, that's a huge help for high handicappers, it's a huge hindrance for everyone else.

CalamariFritti

Ye makes sense now. We play off the same tees to the same greens and no mats or anything, just placing. So ours is playing a lot longer, harder. Only for the placing I'd say winning scores would be 37 points.

fearruanua

43 points for 15 holes won in our place yesterday.
Lad playing off 17 and he had one blank.
Your handicap is adjusted by the club for the winter months. So if ya win something you'd do well to feature again which I think is only fair. Handicap goes back to normal then once qualifying starts up again.
Course is a lot shorter. Bunkers are out of play. Lift clean and place everywhere and the greens are true but slow.
It is mad though the difference it makes. From memory I think 42 was the best score we had all year in qualifying for 18 holes.

fred funk }{

fearruanua wrote: »

43 points for 15 holes won in our place yesterday.
Lad playing off 17 and he had one blank.
Your handicap is adjusted by the club for the winter months. So if ya win something you'd do well to feature again which I think is only fair. Handicap goes back to normal then once qualifying starts up again.
Course is a lot shorter. Bunkers are out of play. Lift clean and place everywhere and the greens are true but slow.
It is mad though the difference it makes. From memory I think 42 was the best score we had all year in qualifying for 18 holes.

That's crazy stuff. So 43 pts for 14 holes :eek:

Senna

fred funk }{ wrote: »

That's crazy stuff. So 43 pts for 14 holes :eek:

He must have been level par for those 14 holes??

fearruanua

Senna wrote: »

He must have been level par for those 14 holes??

2 under gross for the back nine :eek::eek:

Dbu

fearruanua wrote: »

2 under gross for the back nine :eek::eek:

Thats just wrong
I would be embarrassed to hand that in, playing off 17

Mantis Toboggan

Dbu wrote: »

Thats just wrong
I would be embarrassed to hand that in, playing off 17

I'd be delighted

thewobbler

People do like to complain.

Preferred lies help everyone but it's the rest of the stuff that helps out us less-gifted golfers.

Would every golfing male not expect their scoring to improve signficantly if playing of the ladies' tees?

Obviously not every club pushes their tees that far forward but it will be the "short course" in most venues.

Which means that for those who drive the ball 200 yards or so, par 5s become a couple of irons and a wedge; not a flail of the big stick followed by a provisional (which inevitably results in a no score, and an even more vain attempt off the tee next time to set up a par)

This has to be worth 2-3 strokes for any medium-or-up handicapper.

Slow greens, especially for controlling the pace of delicate chips have to be worth another 1-2 shots for those who tend to miss the green. Then the confidence rises and the trick is much easier to repeat.

Being able to drop from an obscure lie in the rough to a less obscure one will turn at least one double bogey into a single.

---

Lots of personal experiences here! But the only time I ever played golf regularly in the low-to-mid 80s was under winter rules.

Senna

Tyson Fury wrote: »

I'd be delighted

Think I would be embarrassed too if it was non-qualifying. He would have been on for 53-55 points for 18 holes!!

Mantis Toboggan

Senna wrote: »

Think I would be embarrassed too if it was non-qualifying. He would have been on for 53-55 points for 18 holes!!

I understand your point but I'd never be embarrassed for shooting a level par round.

martinkop

Tyson Fury wrote: »

I understand your point but I'd never be embarrassed for shooting a level par round.

1. if he is a bandit, then he couldn't give two hoots about embarrassment because everyone in every club knows who they are anyway:rolleyes:

2. if he is a genuine player that struck a vein of form using winter rules, he will be happy as a pig in **** and probably never play like it again.:)

I've played with lads a couple of time who have shot 45+, but it is once in a blue moon stuff, because I've seen them other days hacking away.

FixdePitchmark

thewobbler wrote: »

People do like to complain.

.

People do make excuses too.

Even if someone could tee it up - a 17 handicap player being 2 under gross is outrageous.

Hoof Hearted2

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

People do make excuses too.

Even if someone could tee it up - a 17 handicap player being 2 under gross is outrageous.

Is there no end to your cynicism, Merry Christmas BTW:D

FixdePitchmark

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

Is there no end to your cynicism, Merry Christmas BTW:D

Yes best of luck interclub 2017

Hoof Hearted2

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Yes best of luck interclub 2017

Thanks man, Senior Cup and Barton shield are the only way to go, best of luck to you too;).

Russman

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

People do make excuses too.

Even if someone could tee it up - a 17 handicap player being 2 under gross is outrageous.

Ahh but he was only 2 under for nine, he was probably about level overall....:D:D:eek::eek:


Joking aside though, once in a blue moon rounds do happen from time to time.
If you think about it, most 18 handicappers have a few pars, maybe 5/6 in their rounds, its the doubles and higher that usually kill them. So lets say for the sake of argument he has his 5 or 6 pars, maybe even a birdie or two with the shortened course. The bunkers out of play could well turn a few "no scores" into pars. Coupled with placing and maybe a few putts dropping, you can sort of see how the big scores happen in winter.

That said, 43pts for 14 holes is a little bit f--king Irish. But I'd be inclined to say well done to him but if he did it again I'd begin to wonder.

I've a very good friend who is off 22/23. He'd regularly hit it 250yds down the middle. He'd also regularly hit his next shot 4yds and take 4 putts from 15 feet. Someday it will all click for him and he'll do a mad score and be delighted and get cut. Is he a bandit ? No way IMHO (at least not until he does it !:D)

BigChap1759

thewobbler wrote: »

People do like to complain.

Preferred lies help everyone but it's the rest of the stuff that helps out us less-gifted golfers.

Would every golfing male not expect their scoring to improve signficantly if playing of the ladies' tees?

Obviously not every club pushes their tees that far forward but it will be the "short course" in most venues.

Which means that for those who drive the ball 200 yards or so, par 5s become a couple of irons and a wedge; not a flail of the big stick followed by a provisional (which inevitably results in a no score, and an even more vain attempt off the tee next time to set up a par)

This has to be worth 2-3 strokes for any medium-or-up handicapper.

Slow greens, especially for controlling the pace of delicate chips have to be worth another 1-2 shots for those who tend to miss the green. Then the confidence rises and the trick is much easier to repeat.

Being able to drop from an obscure lie in the rough to a less obscure one will turn at least one double bogey into a single.

---

Lots of personal experiences here! But the only time I ever played golf regularly in the low-to-mid 80s was under winter rules.

Totally agree with this - winter rules massively benefit higher handicappers which is why you get some of the huge scores this time of year

spacecoyote

I'm not so bothered by a freak high score in the winter to be honest. As mentioned above there are days when everything just clicks for someone & conditions help too.

My real problem is with the sudden burst of consistency you see from some players.

Our winter league has been running for 6 weeks. The top scorer is a 20 handicap whose worst round is 39 points over that period.

Funny thing is, he was the top scoring player in the winter league last year too playing off basically the same handicap, so I wonder where that consistency goes in the summer months?

To me, something is definitely wrong if your worst score over that period is still 3 points better than par for your handicap.

cgh

spacecoyote wrote: »

I'm not so bothered by a freak high score in the winter to be honest. As mentioned above there are days when everything just clicks for someone & conditions help too.

My real problem is with the sudden burst of consistency you see from some players.

Our winter league has been running for 6 weeks. The top scorer is a 20 handicap whose worst round is 39 points over that period.

Funny thing is, he was the top scoring player in the winter league last year too playing off basically the same handicap, so I wonder where that consistency goes in the summer months?

To me, something is definitely wrong if your worst score over that period is still 3 points better than par for your handicap.

Well with the Higher Handicap golfers in the winter with Winter tees and placing everywhere, it suits these guys, come summer they cant place the ball at all, then they struggle to hit out of the rough and even poor lies on fairways they suffer. winter is really the time for the higher handicaps.

martinkop

Don't forget the soft greens that hold the balls, allows high handicappers get a lot closer to the hole

thewobbler

I also don't believe it's possible for people with a competitive streak to simply disengage during the summer and re-engage during the winter.

My guess is that 98.72333% of those described as winter bandits would happily trade all their winter prizes for the honour of winning a summer prize or two.

They just don't got the tekkers.

charlieIRL

martinkop wrote: »

Don't forget the soft greens that hold the balls, allows high handicappers get a lot closer to the hole

I think this is a huge help to any golfer in the winter.

Last weekend when I was playing, while the course was in fantastic condition for this time of year, the greens were soft and the ball stopped where it landed or at most a foot away from it. During the summer some of them would have rolled off the green leaving an extra shot before you get out the putter.

mike12

charlieIRL wrote: »

I think this is a huge help to any golfer in the winter.

Last weekend when I was playing, while the course was in fantastic condition for this time of year, the greens were soft and the ball stopped where it landed or at most a foot away from it. During the summer some of them would have rolled off the green leaving an extra shot before you get out the putter.

I think it's when u see the 12 handicapper scoring 40 plus points thru the winter u have to ask questions.
Agree with the short hitting high guys teeing it up in the rough and getting the 3 wood to stop on the soft green is worth maybe 4 shots a round.

DiegoWorst

mike12 wrote: »

I think it's when u see the 12 handicapper scoring 40 plus points thru the winter u have to ask questions.
Agree with the short hitting high guys teeing it up in the rough and getting the 3 wood to stop on the soft green is worth maybe 4 shots a round.

could be a case that short game is preventing said 12 handicap from getting to single digits - being allowed to place the ball, with more receptive greens gives him a chance to get the ball closer to the hole and thus pick up 4 or 5 more pars per round than he would otherwise get in the summer months.

Each player is different, winter conditions may help some but hinder others.

seanl77

Quick query lads, I was joined a club this year as a distance member... wasn't playing a lot with work. But now im joining my local club as a full member, entered my 3 cards last year and it appears I was given a handicap of 10 which trust me is a mistake!! Any ideas of what I can do to get a proper handicap? Transferring over the ten handicap gives me no chance,

Golfgraffix

seanl77 wrote: »

Quick query lads, I was joined a club this year as a distance member... wasn't playing a lot with work. But now im joining my local club as a full member, entered my 3 cards last year and it appears I was given a handicap of 10 which trust me is a mistake!! Any ideas of what I can do to get a proper handicap? Transferring over the ten handicap gives me no chance,

Not really. Unless there is some medical issue that you can use to petition the GUI with then your current handicap will follow you to your new club.

With the .1 system now at 1sl for another year the best you can hope for is an increase to 11 over the next 12 months.

I am curious to know how you got your 10 handicap if you can't play to it, it's a simple enough system based on your 3 cards. Did you have a low handicap before your distance membership elsewhere ?

J

seanl77

Golfgraffix wrote: »

Not really. Unless there is some medical issue that you can use to petition the GUI with then your current handicap will follow you to your new club.

With the .1 system now at 1sl for another year the best you can hope for is an increase to 11 over the next 12 months.

I am curious to know how you got your 10 handicap if you can't play to it, it's a simple enough system based on your 3 cards. Did you have a low handicap before your distance membership elsewhere ?

J

Nope, didn't have a previous handicap. I handed in 3 genuine cards which would be accurate of my ability. I think 87 shots per round would be my average, I have no idea how tje handicap secretary gave me ten... I assume it was a mistake

Golfgraffix

seanl77 wrote: »

Nope, didn't have a previous handicap. I handed in 3 genuine cards which would be accurate of my ability. I think 87 shots per round would be my average, I have no idea how tje handicap secretary gave me ten... I assume it was a mistake

3 x 87's on a par 72 with a few holes that had more than double bogies would get you close to 10.

paulos53

seanl77 wrote: »

Nope, didn't have a previous handicap. I handed in 3 genuine cards which would be accurate of my ability. I think 87 shots per round would be my average, I have no idea how tje handicap secretary gave me ten... I assume it was a mistake

I play off a 10 handicap and looking at my scores in golfnet this year my average score was +14.2 which would be 86.2 on a par 72.

That was actually good enough to reduce my handicap 0.2 over the year. So I think you will be pleasantly surprised when you find yourself holding your own off 10

seanl77

Thanks for the replies lads, thats fair enough so. I thought you would want to be shooting 80ish to play off ten. I would normally only play in societies or scrambles so the handicap isnt all that relevant, but it will be this year.

Golfgraffix

seanl77 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies lads, thats fair enough so. I thought you would want to be shooting 80ish to play off ten. I would normally only play in societies or scrambles so the handicap isnt all that relevant, but it will be this year.

I can't find the link to the statistics but you should be hitting your handicap in about 25% of rounds played.

Russman

Golfgraffix wrote: »

I can't find the link to the statistics but you should be hitting your handicap in about 25% of rounds played.

I'll try to find the report but iirc it's even less, something like 1 round in 7. Open to correction on that but it's been mentioned on here a few times from memory.

Hoof Hearted2

Russman wrote: »

I'll try to find the report but iirc it's even less, something like 1 round in 7. Open to correction on that but it's been mentioned on here a few times from memory.

I think it maybe even less than that, iirc the 1 in 7 refers to hitting the buffer or better, so for a category 3 golfer he could shoot his HC +3 and meet the 1 in 7 criteria.
I suppose it's an average of the 4 handicap category's, for example a category 4 player might be expected to hit it 1 in 10 and a cat 1 golfer 1 in 4, thus giving you an average of 1 in 7.

Seanll, you HC sounds about right to me, I'm off 5 and have been for about 3 years, I have a record of over 200 rounds in that time and according to those stats my average round is +8.8, I mainly play on a par 73 course so (73 +8.8) =81.8.

FixdePitchmark

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

I think it maybe even less than that, iirc the 1 in 7 refers to hitting the buffer or better, so for a category 3 golfer he could shoot his HC +3 and meet the 1 in 7 criteria.
I suppose it's an average of the 4 handicap category's, for example a category 4 player might be expected to hit it 1 in 10 and a cat 1 golfer 1 in 4, thus giving you an average of 1 in 7.

Seanll, you HC sounds about right to me, I'm off 5 and have been for about 3 years, I have a record of over 200 rounds in that time and according to those stats my average round is +8.8, I mainly play on a par 73 course so (73 +8.8) =81.8.

How did you get Hoof ? Good shooting.

Also - many of them comps were Stableford I'd imagine ? - so how does it give any average - are you adjusted to scratch stroke score when a blank for example ?