Employee disciplinary after improvement after time frame.

ravon1981

Hi guys and gals

I am facing a disciplinary for a matter in work after which I have received a verbal warning but this is 1 year after the verbal warning was issued. Can this still be brought to a final written or is a new verbal warning the most that can be issued. There is just 1 issue at hand and in every other way I am a model employee. Quote my manager.

Any help appreciated.

mansize

depends on the severity of the infringement

ravon1981

An issue with personal hygiene. BO and messy hair.

mansize

ravon1981 wrote: »

An issue with personal hygiene. BO and messy hair.

This would be something you promise to address and they monitor it for a while.

Wash and wear fresh clothes everyday. And buy a comb.

Stheno

mansize wrote: »

This would be something you promise to address and they monitor it for a while.

Wash and wear fresh clothes everyday. And buy a comb.

Op had a warning for it a year ago.

Op did you improve and let your standards slip?

And do you deal with customers?

mansize

Stheno wrote: »

Op had a warning for it a year ago.

Op did you improve and let your standards slip?

And do you deal with customers?

A year ago, and sipping would be something that needs addressing, its NOT a firing matter tbf

ravon1981

Stheno wrote: »

Op had a warning for it a year ago.

Op did you improve and let your standards slip?

And do you deal with customers?

Yes improvement but due to work pressure standards slips slightly with busy xmas period.

Yes I do deal with customers. Also semi management. Not assistant manager but section manager.

mansize

ravon1981 wrote: »

Yes improvement but due to work pressure standards slips slightly with busy xmas period.

Yes I do deal with customers. Also semi management. Not assistant manager but section manager.

Shower every morning, get a strong anti perspirant ensure your shoes don't smell either

SusieBlue

I'm sorry but I can see why management would be annoyed and coming down hard on you.

Having to approach an employee even once over such a sensitive issue is awkward enough but having to remind them to shower and groom themselves on the regular creates a negative working environment.

They must feel that you still aren't understanding if a year later you are still slipping up with something that is second nature to the majority of the population.

I understand mental health issues can cause a lack of interest in personal appearance and I'm not sure if this is the case for you, but simply being under pressure at work is no excuse for such poor hygiene to the point that you've been given verbal warnings on the matter.

ravon1981

mansize wrote: »

Shower every morning, get a strong anti perspirant ensure your shoes don't smell either

Do all those things. Just with it being busy being pulled left right and center. Hard not too when heat on full blast and up and down 15ft ladders

mansize

ravon1981 wrote: »

Do all those things. Just with it being busy being pulled left right and center. Hard not too when heat on full blast and up and down 15ft ladders

Are you overweight? Do your colleagues smell?


If not, your not cleaning properly. What antiperspirant do you use?

ravon1981

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I'm sorry but I can see why management would be annoyed and coming down hard on you.

Having to approach an employee even once over such a sensitive issue is awkward enough but having to remind them to shower and groom themselves on the regular creates a negative working environment.

They must feel that you still aren't understanding if a year later you are still slipping up with something that is second nature to the majority of the population.

I understand mental health issues can cause a lack of interest in personal appearance and I'm not sure if this is the case for you, but simply being under pressure at work is no excuse for such poor hygiene to the point that you've been given verbal warnings on the matter.

I do understand they are not doing it out of spite but to help me but i was wondering on just the severity after a full year since a verbal warning.

mansize

ravon1981 wrote: »

I do understand they are not doing it out of spite but to help me but i was wondering on just the severity after a full year since a verbal warning.

have you been spoken about it between times?

Do you change you clothes everyday?

ravon1981

mansize wrote: »

Are you overweight? Do your colleagues smell?


If not, your not cleaning properly. What antiperspirant do you use?

not overweight but not slim either lol Have said to a couple of the lads during hot weather but just a general thing. nothing formal. just between me and them.

Use nivea for men.

ravon1981

mansize wrote: »

have you been spoken about it between times?

Do you change you clothes everyday?

just once a couple of weeks ago during black friday when we were mental.

yes new trousers, underwear, socks, shirt the works

mansize

ravon1981 wrote: »

not overweight but not slim either lol Have said to a couple of the lads during hot weather but just a general thing. nothing formal. just between me and them.

Use nivea for men.

get a stronger anti perspirant in the pharmacy, aluminium based and spend longer in the shower, and wear fresh clothes everyday

Stheno

Have you checked the disciplinary process in your organisation?

They should have it documented how long a verbal warning can last, afaik there is nothing in legislation about it.

mansize

ravon1981 wrote: »

just once a couple of weeks ago during black friday when we were mental.

yes new trousers, underwear, socks, shirt the works

Shoes?

Stheno

ravon1981 wrote: »

just once a couple of weeks ago during black friday when we were mental.

yes new trousers, underwear, socks, shirt the works

So three times now including last year, Black Friday and this latest issue?

Have you thought about going to the Dr to have a check up to see if there is something causing this?

If you smell that badly that your colleagues notice it and are showering every day and wearing clean clothes, that is not normal.

Same with messy hair, have you thought about getting a haircut? How is your hair messy? Is it long?

Help!!!!

Why not have deodorant somewhere on the premises that you can respray when you start to get whiffy? In fairness if you're working in a warehouse doing physical work & your not sweating then I'd be more worried

ravon1981

Stheno wrote: »

So three times now including last year, Black Friday and this latest issue?

Have you thought about going to the Dr to have a check up to see if there is something causing this?

If you smell that badly that your colleagues notice it and are showering every day and wearing clean clothes, that is not normal.

Same with messy hair, have you thought about getting a haircut? How is your hair messy? Is it long?

3 times??

No cause other than just extremely busy. Only customer comments I have had are that I am always running around the place getting stuff done where as others are not.

No colleague has mad a complaint. Just managers.

I have strange hair. Grows in patches especially at sides. Hair cuts last about a month. Hair is not long.

ravon1981

Help!!!! wrote: »

Why not have deodorant somewhere on the premises that you can respray when you start to get whiffy? In fairness if you're working in a warehouse doing physical work & your not sweating then I'd be more worried

I actually do. Thats the thing. I always make sure I have one handy just in case after the first chat.

mansize

ravon1981 wrote: »

3 times??

No cause other than just extremely busy. Only customer comments I have had are that I am always running around the place getting stuff done where as others are not.

No colleague has mad a complaint. Just managers.

I have strange hair. Grows in patches especially at sides. Hair cuts last about a month. Hair is not long.

Keep it neat and short then

mansize

ravon1981 wrote: »

I actually do. Thats the thing. I always make sure I have one handy just in case after the first chat.

Get something stronger than Nivea!


http://m.boots.ie/h5/cat_hub?unCountry=roi&path=/en/Odaban-Antiperspirant-spray_1116405/

Stheno

ravon1981 wrote: »

3 times??

No cause other than just extremely busy. Only customer comments I have had are that I am always running around the place getting stuff done where as others are not.

No colleague has mad a complaint. Just managers.

I have strange hair. Grows in patches especially at sides. Hair cuts last about a month. Hair is not long.

You said once last year, then this year during black Friday and now this latest issue? Or is the latest issue Black Friday?

neonsofa

Op I get paranoid about smelling a bit in work if I'm really busy or if I get warm so I started bringing wet wipes in and having my deodorant with me in work. Quick trip to the bathroom, use a wet wipe to freshen up and quick fresh spray. You're obviously fresh going in. Fresh sweat doesn't smell, it's the stale sweat that does so if you freshen up throughout the day and don't allow sweat to build up on your clothes you should be OK. This is only if you are washing right to begin with though and freshening up before spraying, spraying onto smelly clothes or skin will make it worse.

ravon1981

Stheno wrote: »

You said once last year, then this year during black Friday and now this latest issue? Or is the latest issue Black Friday?

awh sorry yes.

D0NNELLY

ravon1981 wrote: »

Do all those things. Just with it being busy being pulled left right and center. Hard not too when heat on full blast and up and down 15ft ladders

Sanex Roll On. I'd be a sweaty guy, but swear by the stuff.

Stheno

ravon1981 wrote: »

awh sorry yes.

Which is it, two or three times in total? That's actually important.

Also with the clean clothes every day, are you changing socks and shoes, and do you wear the same coat/jacket?

ravon1981

Stheno wrote: »

Which is it, two or three times in total? That's actually important.

Also with the clean clothes every day, are you changing socks and shoes, and do you wear the same coat/jacket?

One formal last year. 2 informal ie in passing but disciplinary scheduled for Thursday so that is why I am wondering after the verbal warning over 12 months ago how it would play out. Whether they could go written or just go to verbal again.

Stheno

ravon1981 wrote: »

One formal last year. 2 informal ie in passing but disciplinary scheduled for Thursday so that is why I am wondering after the verbal warning over 12 months ago how it would play out. Whether they could go written or just go to verbal again.

Check your companys policy, some will have a timeframe on it, such as six months, then it expires. But it's up to each company what they define.

I'd consider three warnings for something like BO and a messy appearance in a year (formal or otherwise) an indication that you have not addressed this appropriately.

For most people one warning would be enough and they'd be mortified about it.

screamer

I'd think a trip to the doctor would be in order too. I understand that people sweat and can smell but this is not normal, do you suffer with excessive sweating? . I know also, it is a difficult conversation for a manager to have, it's also difficult for co-workers to put up with a smelly colleague ( I know, I used to work with a guy who smelt of garlic 24 x 7 and when confined in the small office I used to want to vomit with the smell of him) no matter how good a colleague he was, the smell was just unbearable.

I'm not sure if they can/ will move to final warning over the issue, but it is possible, so before that, you need to ensure that you have done everything you can to address and correct the issue, and a doctors trip would be a good thing to do.

ravon1981

screamer wrote: »

I'd think a trip to the doctor would be in order too. I understand that people sweat and can smell but this is not normal, do you suffer with excessive sweating? . I know also, it is a difficult conversation for a manager to have, it's also difficult for co-workers to put up with a smelly colleague ( I know, I used to work with a guy who smelt of garlic 24 x 7 and when confined in the small office I used to want to vomit with the smell of him) no matter how good a colleague he was, the smell was just unbearable.

I'm not sure if they can/ will move to final warning over the issue, but it is possible, so before that, you need to ensure that you have done everything you can to address and correct the issue, and a doctors trip would be a good thing to do.

lol jesus it aint that bad. I am guessing it just trying to weed it out. Simple stuff like messy hair and unshaven after a couple of days. Its not excessive but after 8 hours of running around it can take its toll.

Stheno

ravon1981 wrote: »

lol jesus it aint that bad. I am guessing it just trying to weed it out. Simple stuff like messy hair and unshaven after a couple of days. Its not excessive but after 8 hours of running around it can take its toll.

Seriously you don't sound like you are taking this seriously.

For me the biggest issue would be the BO, it's disgusting working with someone who smells. If you are wearing fresh clean clothes every day and having a shower in the morning and wearing antiperspirant, and you smell so bad during an 8 hour shift something is wrong.

Why is your hair messy and you're unshaven after a couple of days? Can you not wash your hair in the shower and shave every day?

.......

This post has been deleted.

screamer

ravon1981 wrote: »

lol jesus it aint that bad. I am guessing it just trying to weed it out. Simple stuff like messy hair and unshaven after a couple of days. Its not excessive but after 8 hours of running around it can take its toll.

See this might be the problem right here, you think it's not that bad, but clearly others do. OP I'm not trying to be nasty or funny or anything but you need to take it seriously and you need to sort it out. You don't need to answer these questions online, rather more food for thought- Have you tried other anti-perspirants, do you wear cotton based clothing (that helps with sweating). Shoes should have leather insides too. If your hair is that messy, get a number 2 or 3 shave on it. Seriously, you need to take it seriously as it seems your employer is about to.

Help!!!!

OP are you working in a store/office/warehouse?

cabledude

Very brave of you to openly discuss your personal issues, can't be easy.

In terms of the length of warnings, generally verbal and written would last 6 months. Final written would be 12 months. Thats my experience of course.

Enquire when the written warning you received expired.

In terms of the odours, were Lynx Dry. It is expensive but its worth it. Also, bring a pack of baby wipes into work and clean under the arms every couple of hours. Also, how are you washing your clothes? If you are using a launderette, this can be an issue.

SusieBlue

Seeing as you struggle to shave your stubble, I don't know if this is pointless advice but shaving your armpits might be a good idea.
Sweat clings to the hair and lingers, so it's easier to stay fresh when the area is hairless. just something to think about.

ncmc

OP, something doesn’t add up here, either you are not being totally honest (with us and yourself!) or you have an underlying medical issue that may need addressing. If you are showering, putting on deodorant, clean clothes every day and re-spraying deodorant during the day, then there is no way you should be sweating so much to cause a body odour that is offensive to other people. Also, you mention that your hair and stubble gets out of hand, well, that doesn’t happen over an 8 hour shift, so that’s something in your power to control. Get a haircut every three weeks so that it never gets out of hand, shave daily. Invest in a stronger deodorant, there are brands in the chemist that help with excessive sweating. As someone previously mentioned. If your clothes aren’t being dried properly, then that can cause a very unpleasant, musty smell. Don’t overload your washing machine and put the clothes out as soon as they’re ready. Try and dry near an open window or an area that gets good natural light if possible. I find the cheap detergent and softener doesn’t leave a nice scent, so it’s always something I don’t scrimp on. I know it can be hard to get clothes washed and dried this time of year, but it’s just something you’re going to have to try and get on top of. Someone else mentioned shoes, I worked with a guy who obviously had a hole in his shoe, so all I could smell was a damp, musty foot odour. It was really unpleasant.

I know all this seems petty but it is obviously something your employers feel very strongly about so you’re going to have to take it seriously and don’t let standards slip. If you honestly are doing all of the above, then I really think a trip to the doctor is necessary. There are some hormone imbalances that cause very bad body odour, through no fault of your own, so it could be worth ruling that out.

As regards to your verbal warning, check your contract or with your union if you are in one. I would imagine most companies verbal warnings would have an expiry at most of one year. Best of luck with it OP, it’s not an easy thing to have to deal with for you or them so I hope you can come to some resolution.

seamus

screamer wrote: »

do you wear cotton based clothing (that helps with sweating).

This is one thing that a lot of people probably overlook. I've worked with people in the past that changed their clothes every day, but didn't wash those clothes in between. Even though the job was sedentary and didn't involve sweating, there is a very specific smell that unwashed clothes have and it reeks.

Artificial fibres are really bad for this, and even after you've given them a wash, the smell comes back again far quicker.

Make sure your clothes have natural fibres; polyester trousers are nice and cheap but they will stink quickly, likewise shirts and T-shirts. Go for cotton or wool. If your budget is stretched, blends are OK but they should be at least 75% natural fibres.

Wear all clothes once and then wash them using biological powder.

mansize

Only wear fresh clothes