"Young Professionals"

CaptainR

So I just seen another one of those ads for Elite Singles the dating site for "Young Professionals".

What's the craic with one set of workers being called professionals? It seems to have become a more widespread term in recent times. I don't understand it at all.

It was my understanding that if you do a job for money you are a professional in that field. Hence professional footballers. Professional painter etc. And if you don't get paid your an amateur like an amateur photographer.

One of the lads reckons its because the office guys who aren't an IT specialist or account manager or whatever are given this title because they dont really do anything. But he just thinks he's funny.

I know in the states they use white collar and blue collar as a system of classing different types of work.

"Professional" just comes across as arrogant I think (although those dating ads could be colouring my view)

What say you?

ScumLord

Sounds like a dating site for prostitutes.

theteal

Wasn't there a thread on this "professional" lark last week-ish?

The Raptor

I hate the word professional. Especially on adds on daft.ie. Professionals wanted. What does that mean? Workers or someone who doesn't trash the place and pays rent and bills.

kfallon

The Raptor wrote: »

I hate the word professional. Especially on adds on daft.ie. Professionals wanted. What does that mean? Workers or someone who doesn't trash the place and pays rent and bills.

No students and/or unemployed!

dont bother

anyone who thinks of themselves as a "young profressional" is probably a horrible cvnt who is dead inside

L

In proper use it's supposed to be someone in a handful of fields that have specific qualifications necessary to enter and professional bodies which regulate them (ie. Doctor, Engineer, Lawyer, Accountant and so on).

In practice, people just use it to mean "white collar". What's more annoying is a bunch of the professional titles aren't legally protected in Ireland either - so you get "engineers" who aren't actually engineers.

dont bother

L wrote: »

In proper use it's supposed to be someone in a handful of fields that have specific qualifications necessary to enter and professional bodies which regulate them (ie. Doctor, Engineer, Lawyer, Accountant and so on).

In practice, people just use it to mean "white collar". What's more annoying is a bunch of the professional titles aren't legally protected in Ireland either - so you get "engineers" who aren't actually engineers.

but WHO ACTUALLY CARES what anyone else is doing?
i dont!?!

i absolutely can't understand for the life of me why and how people have gotten so greedy for cash that they will work in these fields.......actually you know what... it'll only derail the thread.

drunkmonkey

Blessed be the greedy.

L

dont bother wrote: »

but WHO ACTUALLY CARES what anyone else is doing?
i dont!?!

Well, in their original intent, you probably do care that your Doctor is actually a trained medic, and the Civil Engineers who sign off buildings as safe are actually qualified to tell if those buildings are safe.

In private life, I don't get why people care myself either.

dont bother wrote: »

i absolutely can't understand for the life of me why and how people have gotten so greedy for cash that they will work in these fields.......actually you know what... it'll only derail the thread.

I don't think greed has much to do with people working in professional fields. Most of the time, you'd earn more money doing something in finance or programming and ditching the professional qualification.

Cee-Jay-Cee

The Raptor wrote: »

I hate the word professional. Especially on adds on daft.ie. Professionals wanted. What does that mean? Workers or someone who doesn't trash the place and pays rent and bills.

Someone who works for a living as opposed to someone who gets paid for sitting at home scratching their arse all day.

El_Duderino 09

It's linked with the term 'elite' that Trump used, and 'the people we dick of experts' that Michael Gove used.

Basically the lower down the labour market you are the more professionals there are above you. Hence the resentment in the way Trump, Gove and the OP are using the term.

It's a catch all term for clean work, don't by college educated people, and generally reasonably well paid with a career progression path.

Get your pitchforks and all that

It was all the rage in the 80's

"Yuppie" (/ˈjʌpi/; short for "young urban professional" or "young upwardly-mobile professional")[1][2] is a term that was introduced in the early 1980s and is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as an individual who is a "member of a socio-economic group comprising young professional people working in cities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuppie

jimgoose

It just means some gowl who has some gowl Jerb that doesn't involve working with his/her hands. :pac:

yeah I agree with you OP, it's such a crock of ****! I've seen landlords request professionals only to have their house wrecked by a load of young teachers!!

That's not a slight on teachers, I just say that because when I called one landlord and asked him to typify a "Professional", he answered, you know, nurses, treachers etc!!! he was a ****wit of the highest calibre, gold medal standard!

I have to laugh at those Elite singles ads too!! Oh so your mickey/vagina is so highly prized, you're having a trouble finding a suitor?

you can see some twats brainstorming in a room, "c'mon people we need ideas, we need to set our site apart from the dregs out there, no more johnny come latelys, ghostings and booty calls at this address, no no, take that trash downtown to your maybefriends or plentyoffish thank you very much!!!!

Winterlong

Anyone who would describe themselves as a young professional needs a good dose of reality.
And a spell working the bog.

fizzypish

dont bother wrote: »

anyone who thinks of themselves as a "young profressional" is probably a horrible cvnt who is dead inside

Thats me so. The dead inside bit is accurate and you could probably find some people who think I'm a cvnt. Someone else said it but young professional is another way of saying not unemployed/student.

Mr.Plough

dont bother wrote: »

i absolutely can't understand for the life of me why and how people have gotten so greedy for cash that they will work in these fields.......actually you know what... it'll only derail the thread.

There's much easier ways to make cash then becoming a Doctor. I'm an engineer, and would likely be earning more money had I went into finance instead, probably be miserable too.


I've nothing against the word professional, but I'd use it to describe someone who is qualified/experienced in their occupation and does it to a high standard. As such, you can have professional bartenders, waiters, electricians and engineers. Just like you can have unprofessional bartenders, waiters, electricians and engineers.

It's use as a term to describe someone with a third level education, which a lot of people associate it with, is just elitist imo.

Shenshen

rusty cole wrote: »

I have to laugh at those Elite singles ads too!! Oh so your mickey/vagina is so highly prized, you're having a trouble finding a suitor?

you can see some twats brainstorming in a room, "c'mon people we need ideas, we need to set our site apart from the dregs out there, no more johnny come latelys, ghostings and booty calls at this address, no no, take that trash downtown to your maybefriends or plentyoffish thank you very much!!!!

I'm not sure about the term "professional", personally, but I can see the idea behind something like Elite Singles. A while after my parents split up, my mom had a hard time getting her social life back on track - she had spent a few years working, upskilling and looking after the family and found that the few friends she had when she split from my father had drifted away. More than anything she wanted to get out of the house a bit and live a little, so one of her friends and us kids tried to get her into online dating a bit, just to see where it would go.

Now, my mom has a university degree and had recently spent a few years doing post-graduate courses. She's interested in philosophy, archaeology and general anthropology and sociology. She likes classical music, loves going to museums and the theatre.
So when we put together her profile, we made sure to politely point out that she may have a hard time finding common ground with, say, a factory worker whose ideal weekend is going on the drink and watching football.
The reactions were disappointing. Either people didn't read her profile at all and sent her mis-spelled, vacuous messages. Or else they sent her nasty messages that she should would be happy to even land someone with a job as she was being such an arrogant bi*tch.
She gave up on the attempt quite quickly.

So while yes, those ads come across as arrogant and annoying, I can see the market for people who are looking for someone a little more educated and matching their own interests.

El_Duderino 09

Winterlong wrote:

Anyone who would describe themselves as a young professional needs a good dose of reality. And a spell working the bog.

I've never heard anyone describe themselves as a professional in that sense. Any job that involves mastery of skills is a profession

The term 'professional person' is used by loads of people to add weight to an opinion. E.g. 'they said she had 6 months to live. And these were professional people. So it must be a miracle'.

Why the vitriol towards the term though?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

El_Duderino 09

Permabear wrote:

This post had been deleted.

Given the rise of populism of late and the deamonisation of education and knowledge, I think in 10 years we'll look back and be shocked that there was a time when the word 'elite' was used in a positive way e.g. 'Elite Dating'

Winterlong

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I've never heard anyone describe themselves as a professional in that sense. Any job that involves mastery of skills is a profession

The term 'professional person' is used by loads of people to add weight to an opinion. E.g. 'they said she had 6 months to live. And these were professional people. So it must be a miracle'.

Why the vitriol towards the term though?

My comments are in terms of the OP, a dating site and those who would chose it based on it's target market - young professionals. As if any other working person is not 'professional'.

El_Duderino 09

Winterlong wrote:

My comments are in terms of the OP, a dating site and those who would chose it based on it's target market - young professionals. As if any other working person is not 'professional'.

Are you confused about the meaning of the term or annoyed at how it's used?

Winterlong

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Are you confused about the meaning of the term or annoyed at how it's used?

What?

El_Duderino 09

Winterlong wrote:

What?

Winterlong wrote:

My comments are in terms of the OP, a dating site and those who would chose it based on it's target market - young professionals. As if any other working person is not 'professional'.

I don't know what the problem is. Is it with the application of the word or are you confused about the meaning of the word?

Meaning seems fairly simple, application seems to be getting up some people's nose.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

El_Duderino 09

Permabear wrote:

This post had been deleted.

True enough.
'I hate it when other people are elitist, at least I'd never end up with somebody... like that'

steddyeddy

No one's true egalitarian. A friend of mine puts no arts grads on her dating profile while complianing about stereotyping in real life.

Badly Drunk Boy

Winterlong wrote: »

Anyone who would describe themselves as a young professional needs a good dose of reality.
And a spell working the bog.

I wonder if The Backwards Man has ever considered setting up a team-building course on the bog for these 'young professionals'. He'd be getting money for people helping to the bring turf home for him. Win-win!

osarusan

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Why the vitriol towards the term though?

Maybe it has taken on some kind of snobby/elitist connotations, but when you read garbage like this:

dont bother wrote: »

anyone who thinks of themselves as a "young profressional" is probably a horrible cvnt who is dead inside

you have to wonder where that connotation comes from?

I imagine a lot of it comes from people who waffle on about how huge swathes of other people 'would never survive in the real world'.

elefant

steddyeddy wrote: »

No one's true egalitarian. A friend of mine puts no arts grads on her dating profile while complianing about stereotyping in real life.

Ah here, that's completely taking the piss. What an amazingly arbitrary thing to filter out possible partners by.

What a fool.

Glenster

Mr.Plough wrote: »

It's use as a term to describe someone with a third level education, which a lot of people associate it with, is just elitist imo.

I always thought it was a member of a professional organisation.

Accountants, solicitors, engineers, doctors, academics would be the traditional ones.

There's also more recent ones like bankers, social workers, HR, PR, IT, etc.

It definitely doesn't mean just has a good job, or is experienced at a complex job, or is educated.

jimgoose

osarusan wrote: »

...'...the real world'.

As far as I can make out, this is code for some mythical place where being poor and dumb is righteous and cool.

steddyeddy

elefant wrote: »

Ah here, that's completely taking the piss. What an amazingly arbitrary thing to filter out possible partners by.

What a fool.

No different to professionals only IMHO. I do agree she's a tool by the way.

realdanbreen

CaptainR wrote: »

So I just seen another one of those ads for Elite Singles the dating site for "Young Professionals".

What's the craic with one set of workers being called professionals? It seems to have become a more widespread term in recent times. I don't understand it at all.

It was my understanding that if you do a job for money you are a professional in that field. Hence professional footballers. Professional painter etc. And if you don't get paid your an amateur like an amateur photographer.

One of the lads reckons its because the office guys who aren't an IT specialist or account manager or whatever are given this title because they dont really do anything. But he just thinks he's funny.

I know in the states they use white collar and blue collar as a system of classing different types of work.

"Professional" just comes across as arrogant I think (although those dating ads could be colouring my view)

What say you?

I find that once I am carrying a few bob plus the fact that I am well hung does the trick for me.

steddyeddy

I have a PhD level in a STEM subject and work on government research and young professional isn't a term I use. I wouldn't go near anyone that uses it either.

elefant

steddyeddy wrote: »

No different to professionals only IMHO. I do agree she's a tool by the way.

If you're in the midst of a career, working full-time etc. it can make sense on at least some level to want to be with someone at a similar stage of life to you.

Deciding you don't want to be with someone because they are interested in maths or psychology doesn't have any logical basis.

Glenster

There is a distinction to be made between;

professional the noun, which I would consider to be a member of a professional organisation, and

professional the adjective, which means "behaves in a manner befitting a member of a professional organisation", and

professional as a negative term meaning "not amateur" (i.e. professional footballer, professional party planner)

Glenster

steddyeddy wrote: »

I have a PhD level in a STEM subject and work on government research and young professional isn't a term I use. I wouldn't go near anyone that uses it either.

Do you pay dues to a professional body which has strict terms of membership that affects your work and has a procedure for removing unwanted members?

Glenster

steddyeddy wrote: »

No different to professionals only IMHO. I do agree she's a tool by the way.

Professionals only is just code for has a job

jimgoose

steddyeddy wrote: »

I have a PhD level in a STEM subject and work on government research and young professional isn't a term I use. I wouldn't go near anyone that uses it either.

"Young professional" doesn't even have any useful meaning in itself, devoid of context. One could be a professional cleaner, or a professional any amount of things that don't require third-level qualifications but still need doing, and doing well, or dare I say professionally. I'm in the IT game as well, the last 25 years or so, at Principal Systems Engineer level, and I wouldn't describe myself as a "Middle-aged Professional" because that would a) be of no conceivable use to anyone outside of a dog with a mallet rammed up his hole and b) make me sound like a wanker.

"Young professional" on those dating sites is basically code for someone with some sort of degree, and landlords tend to use it in it's slightly different meaning of someone who has some sort of salaried job that's likely to last a while.

gleNine

dont bother wrote: »

but WHO ACTUALLY CARES what anyone else is doing?
i dont!?!

i absolutely can't understand for the life of me why and how people have gotten so greedy for cash that they will work in these fields.......actually you know what... it'll only derail the thread.

You seem to be under the impression that these fields pay well or offer a good return in exchange for your knowledge (rather than your time). This is not the case.

seamus

"Professional" has been a synonym for "white collar" for quite a long time. In the classical sense it refers to anyone who has a job that could be referred to as a "profession": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession

Jobs like grocers, bakers, carpenters, masons, builders, and later electricians and plumbers rarely required any formal education. Most of the education was on-the-job experience or an apprentice/master relationship.
But someone became a carpenter by just making stuff. And when they opened their own carpentry shop they got work through reputation alone. By contrast an accountant or solicitor would engage in plenty of on-the-job experience but only earned the right to use the title by passing exams.

In recent times though most of the major trades have involved some degree of formal education, either due to legislation or self-organisation.

My understanding is that the use of the word "professional" meaning "I get paid for this" is a much more recent use, arising from the situation where people now get paid for things which would previously have been considered hobbies or vocations - sportsperson, painter, musician, etc. Mainly because the industrial revolution led to an explosion in hobbies as people now had more free time and money.
Previous to that the notion of being an "amateur" anything was somewhat anathema - you didn't have time to engage in dalliances that cost money and earned nothing. So there was no dichotomy - the only people who engaged in hobbies which didn't earn money were the ruling classes. A painter was a painter and if he didn't get paid for painting, he starved to death.

MeatTwoVeg

It's shorthand for employed and college educated.
Perfectly acceptable.
There's plenty of people, myself included, who wouldn't have any interest in someone who's unemployed or in a menial job.
It shows a lack of ambition.

jimgoose

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

...There's plenty of people, myself included, who wouldn't have any interest in someone who's unemployed or in a menial job.
It shows a lack of ambition.

What exactly do we mean by "menial job" here? Some random dogsbody role that requires no particular skills other than breathing and basic perambulation, or anything outside of college educated?

Glenster

jimgoose wrote: »

What exactly do we mean by "menial job" here? Some random dogsbody role that requires no particular skills other than breathing and basic perambulation, or anything outside of college educated?

A job joe blogs could walk in off the street and perform reasonably well with two weeks training.

jimgoose

Glenster wrote: »

A job joe blogs could walk in off the street and perform reasonably well with two weeks training.

Quite so indeed. So are these YPs seeking YPs cutting out a vast swathe of people, in incredibly diverse occupations demonstrating an incredible variety of skills and talents, in the void between just-about-able-to-pick-your-nose-and-walk-at-the-same-time and college educated salaried something-or-other?

gleNine

Glenster wrote: »

A job joe blogs could walk in off the street and perform reasonably well with two weeks training.

That would be Lawyer, Accountant and many other jobs considered "professional" out the window - no?

fizzypish

gleNine wrote: »

That would be Lawyer, Accountant and many other jobs considered "professional" out the window - no?

Ammmmm I don't think so......

Glenster

gleNine wrote: »

That would be Lawyer, Accountant and many other jobs considered "professional" out the window - no?

To do those jobs you have to have membership in a professional body which awards membership on the basis of prerequisite education (third Level degree or equivalent), experience (not limited to two/three years training) and professional exams.

If you had said Banker or IT professional I would have agreed with you.