Sucklers/drystock : What will you do to improve profit in 2017?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Hi folks, it was suggested to me that it would be interesting to start a similar discussion in sucklers/drystock as was held in dairying recently so I said I would start it off.

I'll be putting out a good bit of lime this year and reseeding 11 acres, some of which has never seen a plough, definitely in over 50 years and possibly 250m of drainage there as well. I'm undecided whether to cut it for bales every 3-4 weeks or graze it yet.

So off with you guys, what plans have you got for 2017?

TPF2012

Not increase numbers as I had previously planned, reduce expenses by spreading less fertiliser, making less bales. Try to have paddock grazing instead of set grazing to increase grazing period, hence less silage. Protect payments, bfp,anc and glas. Extensive > intensive, for suckers.

blue5000

Thanks Buford;),

I'm still re-building numbers after TB, will be changing to finishing bulls u16 months to get QA bonus on them. Also going to grow a few acres of barley to help reduce the meal bill.

A couple of years back I was very skeptical about GLAS, but with so much uncertainty about brexit, I applied for it last week.

Made over 120 bales this year, I reckon next year there'll be less bales and more wagon silage made. Bales could be costing €180/acre, wagon, landed in the pit at 102 looks better value. Pig slurry for P and K is another option to look at.

Genghis Cant

Cull any cow that ain't delivering a very good calf.

On sale day there can be a few hundred euro difference between a good calf and a very good calf.

charolais0153

Getting rid of all underperforming cows .
any cow not calving in Feb or Jan is getting culled.
Any cow that produces bad calf / light/bad colour
Traditional cows are getting culled.
Buy more replacements and don't try and keep them .
get rid of weanlings and increase with cows.
Tighten calving period
Keep more sheep...
Have paddocks right from get go.
Buy in all dry cow feed ...only make good stuff for sheep & cows after calving.
If its available buy in some barley for cows after calving.
Reduce vet bill..no more sections hopefully .
vet wipes out any money that cow is going to make....use more straw to prevent silly scours .
Don't buy in sucks at extortionate prices

davidk1394

We're converting to dairying in 2018. Have enough of shìte prices and barely scraping through with the work we do. We have a good straight forward system but it's just not enough. Beef farming is finished and sheep isn't far behind

Muckit

• Continue to pick all low hanging fruit.
• Remain complaint to ensure all fruit falls into basket.
• Buy quality cattle at keen prices.
• Don't be afraid to keep hand in pocket and come home from mart with an empty trailer.
• Continued focus on grass and managing it better.
• Make the majority of silage in a pit.
• Get some cattle to grass early.
• Get some cattle away in early summer and draught cattle through the year as they become fit.

Butcher Boy

sucklers are going for a start , and only buy in what we can kill ourself.we always had the best of stock and still could not make money out of them we can buy in stores cheaper than we can rear them.

tractorporn

Muckit wrote:

Continue to pick all low hanging fruit.Remain complaint to ensure all fruit falls into basket.

Intend to apply for every scheme available to us. Have already started making enquiries about the farm partnership transfer scheme to reduce the tax bill.

On the ground continue to cull any cow not performing or calving after March have 6 going out the gate this Dec, will probably reduce cow numbers slightly. Intend to reseed 15-20% of land again this year and put in more paddocks. Would like to put in a fodder crop for the ewes to cut the meal bill but the father still isn't convinced.

patsy_mccabe

I'd seriously question growing a few acres of crops to reduce the feed bill. Surely it's cheaper to buy in and keep everything simple.
Here, hard to know. A lot of big big decisions to be made.

Lady Haywire

Pray to whichever weather god is listening. Had to bale wet this year so made 50% more bales than usual so 1.5x the normal cost immediately and are eaten in half the time of wilted stuff.
On that note as well, way less fert on THM parcels, didn't realise how much more would grow while waiting for the deadline to be over.
Try to reduce feeding to calves, this means restricting the father feeding them as he pushes them too early imo.
Not going to cull anything calving late, sometimes the best prices we get for weanlings are those that we keep for the first winter, but see above re feeding ^

DaDerv

I'm debating changing from selling stores to selling weanlings. Farmers pay bananas money for weanlings. Will probably need to change up the Bull aswell although the CH I have is very easy calving which I take a lot of comfort in when I'm at work.

The Cuban

Selling down the cow number to only what I get paid for under the BDGP scheme.
Might buy cheap reared calves or stores which ever is the cheapest
Get tougher inside in the sellers Box of the Mart instead of giving them away

jimini0

Bye bye cows hello calves.
I'm only a small hobby farmer. Had 6 cows down to 2 now. The best 2 we have. Couldn't sell these 2 one cow produces great weanlings and the other fires out good calves and would go back in calf by only looking at Ai man.
Plan on buying a few reared dairy calves if I can get them cheap in January and sell them in november.
If not cheap I will buy month old and put them on a teat feeder.

Timmaay

davidk1394 wrote: »

We're converting to dairying in 2018. Have enough of shìte prices and barely scraping through with the work we do. We have a good straight forward system but it's just not enough. Beef farming is finished and sheep isn't far behind

Best of luck. Much investment needed? Do you know what coop to supply yet? Any worries about being tied down to the parlour twice a day everyday?

davidk1394

Timmaay wrote: »

Best of luck. Much investment needed? Do you know what coop to supply yet? Any worries about being tied down to the parlour twice a day everyday?

Have a choice of 3 co-ops here with Glanbia being the largest. We're only looking at it so far but roughly estimated around €900 per cow excluding the actual purchase of the cows.Will do all site work ourselves and we can draw stone up out of the quarry for any bases for sheds. Farm is too divided up so we'll be mainly indoors. Not sure on the parlor yet looked at a lot of makes fro Dairy master to Pearsons to IAG. father wanted a robot but i said no way. Aiming to get students aswell. But we'll start off with 80 cows and the aim is 300. Actually we'll start with a cow first haha:P

Username John

I'm only a hobby farmer, so prob shouldn't even be replying in here...

Applying for GLAS - this will reduce some of the grass I have. But if I got in, it's guaranteed money...

Changed system last year, so will just see how this works out for me...

I am getting more lazy And am starting I o look at things in 'hours spent on farm' now, rather than just the money element.

Trying to find that balance of the bit of ground I have giving the best and easiest return will be the thing for 2017 I think...

Oh, and taking money out of the farm account as soon as it hits... all too often I find something else to spend it on...

Cavanjack

Username John wrote: »

I'm only a hobby farmer, so prob shouldn't even be replying in here...

Applying for GLAS - this will reduce some of the grass I have. But if I got in, it's guaranteed money...

Changed system last year, so will just see how this works out for me...

I am getting more lazy And am starting I o look at things in 'hours spent on farm' now, rather than just the money element.

Trying to find that balance of the bit of ground I have giving the best and easiest return will be the thing for 2017 I think...

Oh, and taking money out of the farm account as soon as it hits... all too often I find something else to spend it on...

Sure we're all only hobby farmers if reading these threads is anything to go by. Nobody making a penny.

tractorporn

patsy_mccabe wrote:

I'd seriously question growing a few acres of crops to reduce the feed bill. Surely it's cheaper to buy in and keep everything simple. Here, hard to know. A lot of big big decisions to be made.

Well the thinking behind a fodder crop here is that the ewes are out for longer, which hopefully will mean less straw/sawdust, less silage, less meal and a field ready for reseeding the following spring.

davidk1394

tractorporn wrote: »

Well the thinking behind a fodder crop here is that the ewes are out for longer, which hopefully will mean less straw/sawdust, less silage, less meal and a field ready for reseeding the following spring.

Have sweedes here the last couple of years. An excellent break crop for the land and the sheep thrive if the weather is right. worked out roughly 18 cent per ewe per day. ours go on the sweedes the first week of January and are housed the last day of February

Who2

Well I'm going the opposite way, I'm setting up a new five bay calving shed (into existing she's because it's there) I'm re flooring the hayshed and putting a two bay extension onto an existing slatted house. I've also plans of putting in a decent handling unit. I've spent long enough scrimping and leaving life hard on myself so I've decided seen as there's no money in it I might aswell make it a little more enjoyable. I'm also hoping to go mainly ai to breed showy type cattle rather than the ordinary run of the mill sorts. I've ten acres earmarked for new fencing and a reseed. I'll probably be that sick of it this time next year I could end up selling all the cows.

locky76

Make life easier is the number one priority for 2017
1- buy robotic calf feeder, up the bucket reared calves to 50+
2- keep the suckles at 20
3- keep looking at small efficiency gains- better white tape reels, more water troughs, more fence gaps etc. etc.
4- install a meal bin and auger system to cut out bucketing the 35 tonne of meal each year
5- buy a wag tail fertiliser spreader and start using big bags
6- install a new cattle crush

Bass Reeves

Try to buy stores cheaper so as to encourage store producers less for calves to dairy farmers. Price of milk is on the up so they need less of a subsidy from drystock farmers.

Try to buy ration cheaper seeing as how little miller's are paying for grain.

Try to remain colour blind and continue to see as much as possible in black and white

Do not rent land no point in being a busy fool

Keep buying generic dosing online even though the majority think you get what you pay for


Will add a few more tomorrow maybe

Cavanjack

locky76 wrote: »

Make life easier is the number one priority for 2017
1- buy robotic calf feeder, up the bucket reared calves to 50+
2- keep the suckles at 20
3- keep looking at small efficiency gains- better white tape reels, more water troughs, more fence gaps etc. etc.
4- install a meal bin and auger system to cut out bucketing the 35 tonne of meal each year
5- buy a wag tail fertiliser spreader and start using big bags
6- install a new cattle crush

Have you looked into an auger system? Was thinking about putting a bin and auger into the fattening shed.

Limestone Cowboy

Not going to change much here, My only plan for the coming year is to save a few euro to try and get a mortgage in 2018.

darragh_haven

Dry stock here. The plan is
1. Reduce numbers by approx 15%.
2. Cut back on artificial fertilizer while tyring to maintain index 3 in P&K
3. Farm the system - SFP, GLAS, young farmer, etc.
4. Try buying a few more bulls and band them. Its worked out well the last 2 years
5. Spread approx 1 ton of lime per acre as maintenance. Its better than any fertilizer
6. Buy more reels and pigtails. Manage grass

Continue with the full time, off farm job.

I said

Drink less

locky76

Cavanjack wrote: »

locky76 wrote: »

Make life easier is the number one priority for 2017
1- buy robotic calf feeder, up the bucket reared calves to 50+
2- keep the suckles at 20
3- keep looking at small efficiency gains- better white tape reels, more water troughs, more fence gaps etc. etc.
4- install a meal bin and auger system to cut out bucketing the 35 tonne of meal each year
5- buy a wag tail fertiliser spreader and start using big bags
6- install a new cattle crush

Have you looked into an auger system? Was thinking about putting a bin and auger into the fattening shed.

I have, I'm looking at setting up a meal bin at one end of the feed face of the slatted shed and running the auger along the front with batch feeders at each pillar, I have concrete troughs at the 2 of the four bays

Muckit

Won't u still have to take it out of batch feeder in buckets and shake it along?

Muckit

I said wrote: »

Drink less

You are missing a trick. You can write off drink against tax. 'Farm hospitality'

I said

Muckit wrote: »

You are missing a trick. You can write off drink against tax. 'Farm hospitality'

Jaysus I'd be out 7 nights s week to get the benefit of it

locky76

Muckit wrote: »

Won't u still have to take it out of batch feeder in buckets and shake it along?

No, it'll fall into the concrete troughs and I only need to spread it out then.

bogman_bass

Is that for when you keep cattle on a B&B basis?

yosemitesam1

Considering heading out foreign at the end of this year for a while so plan on minimum investment and make the most of whats here for the year.

nqtfarmer

What do ye think will be the future of beef for 2017? Finishing is on the floor but quality weanlings often get a good price.

Irish Beef

Only in a small way here and not long in suckling so trying to increase numbers still, Finding it hard to do things right and save money, applied for Glas couple a weeks back, hopefully get that, the main thing I'm trying to do is have all cows calving no later than February to give myself a chance of a decent weanling. Also trying to improve my setup to try and reduce my own labour. considering the bad beef prices the weanling still sold fairly well which gives me some hope.

Welding Rod

cut stock levels.
Cut fertiliser.
First cut only silage.
When in town and passing by the coop ..... keep fugging driving, preferably at speed.
Don't spare the sprayer! Plenty ****e stuff growing if you let it.

Irish Beef

Welding Rod wrote: »

cut stock levels.
Cut fertiliser.
First cut only silage.
When in town and passing by the coop ..... keep fugging driving, preferably at speed.
Don't spare the sprayer! Plenty ****e stuff growing if you let it.

I have to agree with you about the coop, you end up buying something you only half need or may need in couple months

Who2

Irish Beef wrote: »

Only in a small way here and not long in suckling so trying to increase numbers still, Finding it hard to do things right and save money, applied for Glas couple a weeks back, hopefully get that, the main thing I'm trying to do is have all cows calving no later than February to give myself a chance of a decent weanling. Also trying to improve my setup to try and reduce my own labour. considering the bad beef prices the weanling still sold fairly well which gives me some hope.

Don't underestimate the cost of that early calf. I was a big advocate of the dec- jan calf but I've moved out to start calving in feband finished in march. Any earlier I was getting a build up of desease and spending too much on vets and the pure hassle of it. Not getting them out at the right time and bedding and extra feed. Too heavy of a weanling to sell is not paying either so it's a balancing act.

charolais0153

Who2 wrote: »

Don't underestimate the cost of that early calf. I was a big advocate of the dec- jan calf but I've moved out to start calving in feband finished in march. Any earlier I was getting a build up of desease and spending too much on vets and the pure hassle of it. Not getting them out at the right time and bedding and extra feed. Too heavy of a weanling to sell is not paying either so it's a balancing act.

Sell in august?

Who2

charolais0153 wrote: »

Sell in august?

There's never much of a bite in the prices in august unless we can get the Italian lads back in full swing. It's well into September before competition kicks in properly IMO.

Irish Beef

Who2 wrote: »

Irish Beef wrote: »

Only in a small way here and not long in suckling so trying to increase numbers still, Finding it hard to do things right and save money, applied for Glas couple a weeks back, hopefully get that, the main thing I'm trying to do is have all cows calving no later than February to give myself a chance of a decent weanling. Also trying to improve my setup to try and reduce my own labour. considering the bad beef prices the weanling still sold fairly well which gives me some hope.

Don't underestimate the cost of that early calf. I was a big advocate of the dec- jan calf but I've moved out to start calving in feband finished in march. Any earlier I was getting a build up of desease and spending too much on vets and the pure hassle of it. Not getting them out at the right time and bedding and extra feed. Too heavy of a weanling to sell is not paying either so it's a balancing act.

Ya I would agree with you a bit there, I was thinking along the lines of late jan up to end of feb. Its just that this year a lot of the cows were calving into april. If I Could pull them back to feb at least if they slipped a bit on me id still be no later that march. Its a lot of hassle for me in the shed when they have calved, The best price I got for a weanling this year was an april calf. The funny thing is this year could have been a strange year in that buyers didn't seem to want to go much over 900 for a weanling so the bigger weanling didn't [font=Calibri","sans-serif]necessarily make that much more than a good lighter one, Next year could be different. that's just my own finding from looking at weanling going through the ring.[/font]

Reggie.

Was going to increase numbers but abandoned that idea. Very happy with my rearing system atm and don't think I can improve it much so will be continuing with what I know that works.

I'm going to be the opposite to many here and will be upgrading/renewing the contracting side of things. Going to try my hand at the reseeding/grass harrowing market.

Machinery manufacturers are trying to turn up the heat on sales in 2017 so that is the time to buy I believe.

Muckit

Irish Beef wrote: »

Ya I would agree with you a bit there, I was thinking along the lines of late jan up to end of feb. Its just that this year a lot of the cows were calving into april. If I Could pull them back to feb at least if they slipped a bit on me id still be no later that march. Its a lot of hassle for me in the shed when they have calved, The best price I got for a weanling this year was an april calf. The funny thing is this year could have been a strange year in that buyers didn't seem to want to go much over 900 for a weanling so the bigger weanling didn't [font=Calibri","sans-serif]necessarily make that much more than a good lighter one, Next year could be different. that's just my own finding from looking at weanling going through the ring.[/font]

You've summed it all up here, yet you are planning on fighting against the tide, explain that one to me???????

I think you'd be mad to pull back your calving dates, especially if you have a late spring farm. Calves are tricky and expensive to manage in slatted shed and are more prone to diseases like coccidiosis etc. And it always seems to be the best one that will get it.

Also the lighter weanling is making more/kg. As a buyer I am out buying the last month or so and like to buy an April/May calf knowing that they have spent little/ if any time in shed. It also suits me with the 30mth system for dates and finishing off grass. Any stores I've bought that are Dec15/Jan2016 have been bought for a song compared to lighter weanlings. Good for me perhaps, but not good for you.

davidk1394

While we still have the drystock our main aims's next year are:
1. Keep reseeding old grass land.
2. Buy 4 of the new Gallagher fences for strip grazing the sheep to increase grass usage.
3. Try finish as many lambs as possible off grass
4. If possible we'll finish bulls if we can buy them at the right price in the mart
5. Looking at getting a student during spring to help reduce the workload
6. Try a min/no till approach for reseeding.

Irish Beef

Muckit wrote: »

Irish Beef wrote: »

Ya I would agree with you a bit there, I was thinking along the lines of late jan up to end of feb. Its just that this year a lot of the cows were calving into april. If I Could pull them back to feb at least if they slipped a bit on me id still be no later that march. Its a lot of hassle for me in the shed when they have calved, The best price I got for a weanling this year was an april calf. The funny thing is this year could have been a strange year in that buyers didn't seem to want to go much over 900 for a weanling so the bigger weanling didn't [font=Calibri","sans-serif]necessarily make that much more than a good lighter one, Next year could be different. that's just my own finding from looking at weanling going through the ring.[/font]

You've summed it all up here, yet you are planning on fighting against the tide, explain that one to me???????

I think you'd be mad to pull back your calving dates, especially if you have a late spring farm.  Calves are tricky and expensive to manage in slatted shed and are more prone to diseases like coccidiosis etc.  And it always seems to be the best one that will get it.

Also the lighter weanling is making more/kg.  As a buyer I am out buying the last month or so and like to buy an April/May calf knowing that they have spent little/ if any time in shed.  It also suits me with the 30mth system for dates and finishing off grass.  Any stores I've bought that are Dec15/Jan2016 have been bought for a song compared to lighter weanlings.  Good for me perhaps, but not good for you.

In answer to your question here, I suppose if every year was going to be exactly the same as 2016 id say ya the april calf may be the way to go but every year can vary from the previous one, in 2015 the heavier weanling was rewarded handsomely with good 450kg bull calves making up to 1100. Which could leave an extra 200 over a 350kg april calf. Now I would imagine next year will be more like 2016 but I still think bringing them forward a bit is no harm. about 1 month will be the most I can bring them forward by anyway other than heifers of course.

DaDerv

A local Goat farmer said something to me the other day about chasing money. Unless you're very very lucky you will never catch it. No year is the exact same in farming. No matter what area you're in. I have sucklers that i sell on as stores. 2016 prices were back 200-300 Euro on 2015. The worst thing someone could do is completely revamp their operation and sink a lot of money into a different process and for that to go tits up. Personally I'm thinking of selling on weanlings instead of stores. Not a major change but a slight one. Main reason behind this is my stocking rate is too high and I'm buying silage. Hopefully i will save this way in the long term.

jfh

saw this thread couple of days ago & meant to reply;
i'm not going to try to make profit farming in 2017 or the next few years after that either.
i'm taking a long term approach & it's an indication of the state of farming, that the approach is to make the place as efficient as possible timewise because i will need that time in a paye job that actually pays all the bills.
i would like to improve efficiency in 2017 so that i'm not constantly running from farm to job & leaving the missus with the kids.
so the things i have in mind will hopefully help
fencing needs to be top notch
water troughs.
put a new creep area onto slatted house
push back calving to march/april
might move from LIM bull to AA
cull hard, some excellent replacements coming up so rather than expand, get rid of a few passengers.
as someone else mentioned, drive past that Co-OP
try to minimise scour outbreak,
min till reseed
make more use of those KT meetings
probably few more,will review again in jan

rangler1

Reggie. wrote: »

Was going to increase numbers but abandoned that idea. Very happy with my rearing system atm and don't think I can improve it much so will be continuing with what I know that works.

I'm going to be the opposite to many here and will be upgrading/renewing the contracting side of things. Going to try my hand at the reseeding/grass harrowing market.

Machinery manufacturers are trying to turn up the heat on sales in 2017 so that is the time to buy I believe.

Presume you're thinking of direct drill, any particular make in mind,

Reggie.

rangler1 wrote: »

Presume you're thinking of direct drill, any particular make in mind,

Firstly I'm going with a grass harrow with air seeder. Might look at the guttler in future if the market is there

davidk1394

Reggie. wrote: »

Firstly I'm going with a grass harrow with air seeder. Might look at the guttler in future if the market is there

I was actually looking at them myself. Fairly impressed with the atcheson one. A friend got a demo of a new type drill last august. it's made up the north but I can't remember it's name