Which Property Type?

Mitten30

Can I start at the outset by apologizing if this is not the correct place for this query.

We are hoping to buy a house next year. We are a family of 4 currently living in a 2 bed apartment, dying to have a proper home and some space. We have been having a primarily look around at some homes for sale in the area we want and are having trouble reaching an agreement.. all opinions and advice welcome!

There a lot of new builds for sale in this area- mainly "townhouses" (terraced houses). Tiny back garden, no front garden (we would have 2 cars parked literally at the sitting room window), estates that have room for more builds, unknown current neighbours/feel of the estate. The inside of the homes are amazing - large bedrooms, super well insulated, 3/4 bathrooms, built in wardrobes, new kitchens - you name it.

OR

We have second hand houses, think 1960's/70's builds, poor energy rating, slightly less internal square footage but larger gardens front & rear, ugly (for want of a better word) interiors, 1 bathroom, great location, same town but fully established estate, no room for further development etc.

Which would you go for? New houses are approx. €30k more expensive but literally turn key ready to move in finished product. The older house are absolutely liveable but far from the "dream" home I have ever pictured. It would be pricey to upgrade - insulate as well as the cosmetic work. Most houses sold in this estate have been practically gutted - walls knocked etc & I have heard budgets of €100k being mentioned.....

How can we decide on this? Myself and OH are at opposite ends view point wise!

Uriel.

is the older house semi-d, detached?

Mitten30

It's semi d

Moonbeam

I would have thought that the 1960's/70's houses would be mostly bigger then new builds.
We have 4 kids and having a back garden is brilliant.
The lack of insulation is a pain but it is something that you can get done.

stargazer 68

We are looking at buying this year and won't even be considering new builds. I know a couple of people who bought new in the last 10 years and have had endless trouble

Mitten30

Ya I had thought as well but no new build is 1800sqft and older is 1400sqft. It's the garden and the fact it's not hugely over looked that is swaying me. but looking for all view points

Uriel.

To be honest, notwithstanding cost, I would go for the bigger house, if it is in a better location and has a better environment and a more mature area.

The smaller house can't get any bigger (obviously you can extend the buildings potentially, but the starting plot size is a constant).

The bigger house gives you lots more flexibility with what you can do in the long-term. You can invest in upgrades as time and your budget allows.

If this is a forever house purchase or a long-term one at least, I'd typically lean towards the bigger one.

Mitten30

Thanks Uriel. And there is where the problem lies - the bigger house is the newer house with the small back garden, new estate, very over looked full estate.....but the house & layout internally is amazing.

The other house is in our face location but needs work, we have 2 x small kids and no extra money for "work".

stargazer 68

Have you driven around the new estate in the evening? Get a feel for the parking etc. These new estates can be very tight etc.

Danielle D

Living in a 2 bed end terrace townhouse bought new in boom I'd suggest considering the following :
1) What ages are the children? Our youngest (just gone 5) wants to be outdoors all the time but the fact that we have no front garden means one of us has to be out front watching her at all times. She wants to be out with the other children rather than playing in the back garden.
2) Lack of privacy at the front of the house and limited parking is an issue for us also. Would definitely prefer our own driveway.
3) Can you convert attic/extend the older house to same Sq footage as new build?
Our attic is not suitable for conversion due to roof pitch so we had to lose a bathroom when youngest arrived. Worth checking these things on both houses before buying (which we didn't).
4) Older house gives scope to put your own stamp on it and can be done in your own time if that's something that appeals.
5) We have had to change front door and insulate internal and external walls to improve insulation and reduce neighbouring noise. (Not sure what energy rating our house had to begin with though).

Col_30

In Ireland, we do most of our living inside the home
I would go for the bigger new house if the area suits you. Where will you get the 100k from to do the refurbs? Do you have this saved? Financing this on top of a mortgage will be very difficult.

Mitten30

No extra money for re-furb but house is liveable, just needs modernization. We are currently in an apartment so the sound proofing is a huge issue for us too. It's such a huge issue and I guess the reality is there's no 1 correct answer....

Lumen

Don't underestimate the cost of significant renovation/remodelling.

I wouldn't worry much about back garden for the kids, unless you're choosing between tiny and massive. Unless the older house has enough space for a football/hurling practice or whatever it won't get used much when the kids are a bit older.

I would focus mostly on layout, natural light and the "feel" of the rooms. Sit down in the kitchen and think about whether it's somewhere that you would want to spend time. My last house was a 2004-build semi-D, BER rating C1 which isn't too bad, but the kitchen was oddly cold and inhospitable possibly in part due to the catflap through a side door. The new house is E-rated but has a separate utility room for the catflap so the kitchen/diner is not drafty and has space for a wood burning stove and armchair which is great in winter.

Small things can be irritating. Old house had a side passage which was less than 2 wheelie bins wide, so I had to keep them out the front or shuffle them around on collection day. Neighbours had more side space for bins and sheds which I coveted deeply.

Unfortunately it's incredibly difficult to get a good feel for a place when you're walking round an open viewing.

currants

30k would buy you external and attic insulation, new windows/doors if needed and a lick of paint inside and out. You might even get an understairs loo out of it if you budget wisely. With children in the mix I'd go for a semi with a bigger garden and a settled estate every time, you can always extend as you pay down the mortgage and get more comfortable financially. Your turnkey house wont stay that way long with 2 kids anyway.
You really don't need 4 bathrooms for a family of 4-think of all the cleaning. Also a bit of space for cars and bins etc is always good. I'd "rough it" in the older house for the security of knowing the area profile will not change significantly and you wont suddenly be faced with the possibility of an apartment blocking shading you and the noise issues new build estates can face. Much easier to get an idea of your potential neighbours in an settled estate. Coming from a 2 bed wherever you buy will seem much bigger to you anyway. Good luck, its an exciting time for you all.

Confused mum84

I'd go for new house - your not buying anyone else's problems (in theory).. Try your hardest to get semi- d. A friend of mine has the 3 story terraced townhouse - big bedrooms , but tiny downstairs !! Also try to ensure your on a green area for kids to play & also think about amount of traffic passing front door

davindub

I would go for the older house, insulation and remodelling is not exactly cheap and you need to spot the issues, but on new builds this is even harder. Sprayed on plaster looks ok at the start, comes off the wall easily though, especially around stairs, etc.

My last rented house was newish (3 years when i moved in) and would sell for about 600k now (southside), Every room had leaks, either from outside, the leaking shower tray. Cracks everywhere. Incorrect wires used in places. Sound proofing was awful. In other words they cut every corner possible, cut out the gardens calling it a townhouse. Absolute Garbage.

dori_dormer

I'd go for the older house. Is the new one only more square ft because the attic is converted also? If so is there any storage? I don't consider the attic space as real space is is a bedroom. Terraces are very noisy worth neighbours on both sides, exorcist if both have kids too it'll be as noisy as your apartment. Also is hate to be dragging bikes and bins through the house all the time with no side gate. If you could get an end of terrace that might be better. Also consider living space. A lot of modern houses these days have 4 bedrooms but only 2 rooms to actually live in. A living room and a kitchen. Think about where the kids toys will go etc ( living in apartment you prob already think about this!)
The older house and bigger garden can be extended, if needed. It can always be done up over a few years of the cash isn't there up front. There's also grants available.

Alkers

It is also worth considering the certainty you have with buying a new home. E.g. we have been hunting the second hand market for 11 months, viewed over 100 houses, bid on about fifteen, been sale agreed three times etc. Where if you buy new, you pay your deposit, snag and move in...

4ensic15

Simona1986 wrote: »

. Where if you buy new, you pay your deposit, snag and move in...

If only.

Alkers

4ensic15 wrote:

If only.

Lol, I joke but there is a lot less potential for disappointment

PhoenixParker

All other things being equal: new house.

I think a lot of people dismissing new builds are thinking of the boom time crop of new builds. They were small and poorly insulated. The new regs mean that current new builds are much bigger and more functional. 1800sqft is not unusual. For instance every house here has either a side gate or a bin shed out front, they all have a utility room, the four beds all have a storage room, they all have a big downstairs loo etc. The insulation and finish is great. You can retrofit insulation but it's never as good.

I'm biased as we moved into our new build in July. Haven't felt cold since. Have instant on hot water. Our garden is small but more than big enough for a bbq and a toddler. There's a playground less than 250m away and honestly cutting the small amount of grass we have is enough of a pain. You put your stamp on a new build too. Its a blank slate. Weve picked every the kitchen, every floor, blinds & curtains, lampshades and everything else.

All the houses nearby have young kids or kids on the way so lots of scope for friends for ours. A more settled estate wouldn't have that.

I will caveat by saying that ours is in a more infill type development so there are already local amenities like a shop, cafe, transport etc. Would have been much warier without those.

Finally look for local area development plans and look up the planning permission. They're a mine of information.

Estrellita

Mitten30 wrote: »

How can we decide on this? Myself and OH are at opposite ends view point wise!

When it comes to buying you've to weigh up your cons and pros but it ultimately means deciding what matters to your family the most, and some sacrifices may have to be made.

For what it's worth asking me the same question, I'd go with an older house for many reasons. You can improve the insulation over time, and if you do get a half decent garden you may have the option of extending a little. Converting the attic will give you more living space. There is great enjoyment to be had from a spot of gardening imo. I prefer to have my own driveway so there are no silly squabbles over who has parked in who's space.

Having a side entrance is a God send, so don't leave that out of your matters for consideration. Especially when you have a family. If you buy a property with a side entrance you don't have to have bicycles and wheelie bins being dragged through the house. We are moving out of a semi (to detached), and I've always felt sorry for my neighbour that lived next door. She had to put up with her motorbike enthusiast OH bringing his bike through the house.

I'd much rather make clever use of the space I have, and to have the space outdoors and the side gate. Modernising to your own taste can be done over time and as money allows.

listermint

Pirite is scary. but so are many other things. But always have that in the back of your head. It generally cant be found with basic surveys.

Mitten30

Thanks so much for all the replies everyone! I didn't get to log on yesterday and really appreciate all the people who have taken time out to get back to me.


I guess the advice from everyone is correct but it has definitely helped focus me. We are currently in a large 2 bed apartment. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. We have both a boy and girl so obviously room sharing can't go on for much longer. However, I have been pleasantly surprised how long we have lasted, in a situation that gets a reaction of horror from most people "you live in an apartment with 2 kids...!!!"


I think our solution will probably need to be a compromise. We want a forever home and have narrowed down a couple of areas that suit for a variety of reasons. I am almost 100% decided against a new built town house/terraced house for a number of reasons, most outlined above. Very small living space down stairs, tiny garden, in general hugely over looked and parking issues, very steep staircases and bedroom a floor above the kids which I'm not sure is a great/practical idea, sound proofing issues and some more.


Similarly I don't want a house with a massive amount of work. I think we will have to sit tight and hope the right home comes on the market in our price range. We have also not ruled out new builds (as in currently being built) as I guess these might be easier than bidding etc...

Mink

Something will come along Mitten!

That's terrible that people react like that when you tell them about current situation.

I'd say they don't venture out of their palatial surroundings enough to observe how us mere peasants live

Mitten30

Oh Mink - you wouldn't believe it. Have even had people comment that it's not fair on the kids...
It's awful being made feel guilty like that.#
We could have moved out and rented years ago but consciously choose not to do that. We've a tracker mortgage so have small enough mortgage repayments so that meant I could work part time and spend time with the little ones. We are always out and about in parks etc so I don't feel they suffer in any way but some people....:(

Mink

Mitten30 wrote: »

Oh Mink - you wouldn't believe it. Have even had people comment that it's not fair on the kids...
It's awful being made feel guilty like that.#
We could have moved out and rented years ago but consciously choose not to do that. We've a tracker mortgage so have small enough mortgage repayments so that meant I could work part time and spend time with the little ones. We are always out and about in parks etc so I don't feel they suffer in any way but some people....:(

I'm actually gobsmacked that someone would say that. I sincerely hope you are not close friends with whoever said that or at least have limited contact.

The best thing you can give a child is your time - which you were able to do more of because you actually had a great situation of having a small tracker and could work less hours.

We are sale agreed on a house but have been in rentals for decades prior. By rights when I finished my maternity leave back in early 2013 I should have just gone back to my fulltime job, it was there for me. I say should because we would have saved up a deposit faster, paid down debts faster etc.

But I negotiated with my boss for a 3 day week (I'm very lucky as they are rare to come by) and so I get 2 extra days home with wee man while he's still... well, wee.

I'm in no way saying anything about parents that work full time, time with kids is about quality rather than quantity anyway! It was just my choice.

tldr; we could have gotten a house much cheaper (before prices shot up again in 2015) if I'd worked fulltime.

I'd say those eejits were just jealous of your tracker and/or your family!

Mitten30

Thanks Mink. We have very similar situations!
I am actually back to work full time now to save & get mortgage approval....it's a different world! Well done on saving while working part time - we could never manage it!
Are you buying in Dublin?

Mink

Mitten30 wrote: »

Thanks Mink. We have very similar situations!
I am actually back to work full time now to save & get mortgage approval....it's a different world! Well done on saving while working part time - we could never manage it!
Are you buying in Dublin?

No we're buying in an area that is pretty cheap, luckily it suits us for work and family reasons. I would definitely have been back full time if buying in Dublin, and even then we wouldn't manage it.

Best of luck!

handlemaster

I would go for the older home. You know what your getting straight off. 30k would do alot of work. 6k you could external insulate etc. People often ignore the council estates of the 70s 80's which is good as they come for a lower price and are usalle builth well not with standing the insulation. But even the boom time houses havé poor insulation.

JustAThought

Whatever you do good luck!! & don't be despair-shopped into panic buying!

I've looked a few new build recently & the space & parking quality has really improved since I bought 12 years ago - as has the value of what you get for your money but there's the dead ctic tiger for you!

Having proper wiring & cabling , underfloor heating,modern small quiet boilers with timers on radiators, double or triple glazing, large water tanks, proper large built in wardrobes & modern kitchens IS really nice. Think 1980's versus 2016 standards!

+ 1 on the tiny front gardens with parking at your window but most of your living is done indoors when you come in from work, so although you may have to trade that off won't your curtains be closed or it dark from late August to mid Spring & you may be doing your living /TV watching in another room / the kitchen while it is daytime.

My big issue would be insuring that you have NO Management company - walk away even when closing if you hear there is one ( real estate agents often lie) snd whether there is adequate car parking ( & allocated per specific house) for not only you but also your neighbour and his 3 cars. It is the biggest cause of friction & if you look at some estates with quite big houses & the higgdy piggeldy parking & people having to park on blind bends & too narrow roads because by law only 1.4 spaces per house are required - you will get an idea of this nightmare.

+1 re the side passage or the gardens need to have somewhere to store the 3 bins outside - nothing says chav estate as fast as 3 bins outside every house or abandoned permanently on the street .


I have a 3 storey place & tbh I wouldn't consider my room above 'the kids' rooms to be an issue at all. Important thing is large rooms and lots of storage. And a window in the bathroom if at all possible.

If I was buying another house my proprities would be modern (quality) build, with warm insulation ( you can't put a price on walking into a wall of warm at night) with a large bedrooms, south facing, private driveway, side passage & a big gate; preferably detached. And a good bus or train service - not just one promised or with a metro 'due' to be built.

Some of these I have but the others I really yearn for!


As an afterthought I would so be looking to see if the EA would drop as to whether they were being bought to rent or owner occupied or were there differently priced/social & affordable in the eatate or due to be built or had the HSE bought any ( to rent) or the builders kept any - again to rent to HSE. You might get lucky and find out. Ditto on an old house what the proportion of homeowners versus rentals were in the street/area -at the risk of starting a fight this is really important as the majority of problems in our few houses locally that are problem houses are from rentals & we have had to gettigether a few times to address serious issues - always from renting properties. In a scond hand place the local gossip in the shop or cafe might set you right!
Good luck!

riclad

do you want a large back garden, go for an old house,
It costs maybe 10-20k to upgrade insulation, put in triple glaze windows .
5k plus for a new kitchen.
IF you buy old house ,theres not much chance of any new build happening
where you live , old houses tend to have higher ceilings than a standard
semi d.
There tend s to be shops and schools, already located close to older house s .say in 10 years time when kids grow up you can always sell up and move into a modern house with a small garden.
Some old houses are easy to insulate ,eg they have thick brick walls than modern houses and proper brick walls around them, not just a small wooden fence
.hence more privacy .
just think what do i want most ,modern look vs older house .
with large garden .
i know someone bought old house,
inside it looks modern, inside .All new doors and windows installed .
Budget 10 k for modernisation of older house.