One of the World's Top Bankers warns about the now staggering wealth inequalities.

Skommando

It must be getting shaky when one of the elites is issuing warnings about inequality :

Thing is, are the real controllers of politicians (large business interests) going to take any notice or does it have to get worse ?

Real wages for ordinary people are now lower than they were 10 years ago. That hasn't happened since the 1850's.

Corporations profits however are growing larger than ever.

And before anyone starts and try's to divert the thread, I'm neither left or right wing, and I'm pro business and pro profit with a fair wage paid to those who make that profit possible, so they can raise a family and have the basic security of their own home.

The Bank of England Governor Mark Carney has warned that people will turn their backs on free and open markets unless something is done to help those left behind by the financial crisis.
In a speech, he said: "Globalisation is associated with low wages, insecure employment, stateless corporations and striking inequalities."
In many advanced economies there are "staggering wealth inequalities," he added . . .

Mr Carney, giving the Roscoe Lecture at Liverpool John Moores University, spoke of the need for wealth distribution and putting individuals back in control.
He cited Prime Minister Theresa May's criticism of "stateless corporations" who paid little tax and had little responsibility to local communities.
The governor said: "Redistribution and fairness also mean turning back the tide of stateless corporations."
"As the prime minister recently stressed, companies must be rooted and pay tax somewhere.
"Businesses operating across borders have responsibilities," he added . . .

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-38210169

Fleawuss

A straw in the wind. Is there a politician with the balls to heed it and rebuild the centre ground? And who isn't a crypto fascist or a Marxist clown?

Arcade_Tryer

Fleawuss wrote: »

A straw in the wind. Is there a politician with the balls to heed it and rebuild the centre ground? And who isn't a crypto fascist or a Marxist clown?

Politicians? Most people support and perpetuate these 'staggering wealth inequalities'. For example, just look at public and political opinion in Ireland on property and inheritance tax.

hmmm

We have growing inequality because the jobs that used to be there for the lower educated workers are disappearing, while wealth is increasingly concentrated in the hands of the well educated. It's a natural progression, there's nothing particularly sinister about it.

The question is what do you do to improve the lot of the lower educated who want to work. Most people want a job, not a handout - and they despise those who look for handouts. The Trump election was won by a candidate who proposed to cut social welfare spending, and yet was voted into power by a group of people who largely depended on welfare - why? Because they want to work, and don't see themselves as long term welfare recipients.

I think the leftwing parties, and the occasional gob****e in FG & FF are missing the above point - they are falling over themselves to hand out goodies to the welfare class who don't want to work, while assuming that this will keep the people who don't want to be on welfare (or in a lower paid job) happy.

We need to figure out a way to create good jobs in a world that doesn't rely on low skilled labour. Answers on a postcard if you know how.

Skommando

hmmm wrote: »

We have growing inequality because the jobs that used to be there for the lower educated workers are disappearing, while wealth is increasingly concentrated in the hands of the well educated. It's a natural progression

Actually I disagree, it's the jobs that were once better paid, from retail manager, to teacher, to police officer, to solicitor, to accountant, to software developer, but are now paid little if any more than once lower paid jobs, and now done more for 'prestige' / self fulfilment reasons (for want of a better word) rather than any extra actual financial reward where the real fall in wages can be seen. I know a lot of these professions are now paid little more than the people working in shops and retail outlets serving them. That has a knock on effect of less money being available for circulation in local economies, but much better profits for some corporations.

hmmm wrote: »

We need to figure out a way to create good jobs in a world that doesn't rely on low skilled labour.

We've a very highly educated young workforce, skills are not a problem, nor is the willingness to work in 'low skill jobs' as you like to call them, as long as people can raise a family on them, and have some living security. That's a legitimate expectation if people want society to actually function.
Functioning societies are in the interests of large corporations and their profits. Who else is going to buy all the stuff they make and advertise 24/7 that we don't actually need ?

Henry Ford famously paid his factory workers and professionals well over the going rates for good reason, and his competitors then had to to likewise, and said workers then were able to afford to buy motor cars in their droves. It was a win - win for everyone. Money that circulates and filters down benefits everyone. Money continually over concentrated in fewer and fewer hands doesn't.

hmmm

Skommando wrote: »

it's the jobs that were once better paid, from retail manager, to teacher, to police officer, to solicitor, to accountant, to software developer, but are now paid little if any more than once lower paid jobs, and now done more for 'prestige' / self fulfilment reasons (for want of a better word) rather than any extra actual financial reward where the real fall in wages can be seen. I know a lot of these professions are now paid little more than the people working in shops and retail outlets serving them.

Complete nonsense.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

How much does a disposable barbecue cost?

Skommando

hmmm wrote: »

Complete nonsense.

In other words you've no argument worth making.

The fact remains that in real terms all wages are lower.

What are you actually afraid of ? that ordinary people, which includes professionals, might be paid more and have a better standard of living and more secure homes ?

ZeroThreat

hmmm wrote: »

Complete nonsense.

either that, or I'm doing exams with an accounting body for no reason whatsoever,

ZeroThreat

Skommando wrote: »

In other words you've no argument worth making.

The fact remains that in real terms all wages are lower.

What are you actually afraid of ? that ordinary people, which includes professionals, might be paid more and have a better standard of living and more secure homes ?

I think the idea is over time to winnow & eliminate the 'middle class' so the folk who are actually 'rich' can feel even more extra elite when they look at the wide gulf between themselves & the other 99.9% uneducated & unskilled proletariat.

They don't have to fear another rung just below them of well educated or aspiring people.

Phoebas

I remember back before 'elite' was dirty word and to be in the top 1% of something was an aspiration.

Simpler times.

Dr Crayfish

The only way we can stop inequality and global warming and all of the world's ills is by checking in to North Dakota on Facebook. Or something.

Oodoov

Things are going to get worse. Brexit, Trump, look what is happening in Italy, France could vote in Le Pen i see the same people that laughed at the chances of Trump being president are at it again with her. The race to the bottom has gone into overdrive since 2008 and shows no sign of slowing down. The jobs the traditional working classes used to do are going, replaced by machines. It's happening in banks, supermarkets, factories, soon enough we will have self driving taxis, buses, trucks etc.. The farming and fishing sectors paying peanuts to people from third world countries happy to get paid a pittance for slaving away hours on end.

It's all going to end in tears if the establishment don't realise the present path is broken.

Ferrari3600

Skommando wrote: »

Actually I disagree, it's the jobs that were once better paid, from retail manager, to teacher, to police officer, to solicitor, to accountant, to software developer, but are now paid little if any more than once lower paid jobs, and now done more for 'prestige' / self fulfilment reasons (for want of a better word) rather than any extra actual financial reward where the real fall in wages can be seen. I know a lot of these professions are now paid little more than the people working in shops and retail outlets serving them. That has a knock on effect of less money being available for circulation in local economies, but much better profits for some corporations.

Totally agree. Particularly as regards the law and accountancy. Both professions are in decline due to automation and due to their institutes letting too many qualify. Hundreds of young solicitors and accountants emigrated during the crash - most have not come back. I personally know solicitors with good experience that work as journalists, and accountants that are (barely) scraping a living together from bits and bobs.

Skommando

Oodoov wrote: »

It's all going to end in tears if the establishment don't realise the present path is broken.

That part of your post exactly the message the Govenor of the Bank of England no less is trying to get across.
And he is certainly not anti-establishment, nor am I.

But the question is are the people who should be listening, listening ? Or is the greed and lust for power all consuming ?

I don't like to believe it is. Let's hope they start listening soon before more Tumps get elected.

Wanderer78

old news really, many have been writing about this for years now, and it may not be stoppable. some call the inequality issues in parts of america as 'runaway inequality'. we have created extremely complex economic and financial systems that are not fit for purpose, and if are allowed to continue, unchanged, will probably lead to an absolute collapse of our socioeconomic and environmental systems, and ultimately the demise of the human race.

steddyeddy

Since an early age I knew it was wrong that children from better backgrounds went to better schools. On lines with gender inequality.

ChikiChiki

Most organisations are going through massive change at the minute as recommended by various consultancy bodies (big 4 cough). The introduction of technological improvements and automation is significantly lowering FTE requirements where savings then pass on favourably to the balance sheets.

Can't see these increased profits being transferred back to the average joe. Think many people will get caught out with the automation and now more than ever it's important to keep upskilling.

Oodoov

Skommando wrote: »

That part of your post exactly the message the Govenor of the Bank of England no less is trying to get across.
And he is certainly not anti-establishment, nor am I.

But the question is are the people who should be listening, listening ? Or is the greed and lust for power all consuming ?

I don't like to believe it is. Let's hope they start listening soon before more Tumps get elected.

As we speak the establishment are putting into place a system to get a second referendum on Brexit and i see the beginnings of a desperate attempt in the US to have the election results overturned. Least we forget our own little slap down in the form of Nice and Lisbon 2. All around us the signs are that the democratic will pf the people is being ignored.

That is going to end very badly indeed and i see zero signs of the establishment amending their ways.

Skommando

Wanderer78 wrote: »

old news really, many have been writing about this for years now, and it may not be stoppable. some call the inequality issues in parts of america as 'runaway inequality'. we have created extremely complex economic and financial systems that are not fit for purpose, and if are allowed to continue, unchanged, will probably lead to an absolute collapse of our socioeconomic and environmental systems

What is news is someone from so high in the establishment publicly and openly warning the rest about it. And he's not talking about first world vs third world, he's talking about first world western society. He realises it's in his interests and the mega corporations to do something about it. Social instability is not in their interest, and only in the interests of the extremists and headers like Trump.

Francie Barrett

hmmm wrote: »

I think the leftwing parties, and the occasional gob****e in FG & FF are missing the above point - they are falling over themselves to hand out goodies to the welfare class who don't want to work, while assuming that this will keep the people who don't want to be on welfare (or in a lower paid job) happy.

We need to figure out a way to create good jobs in a world that doesn't rely on low skilled labour. Answers on a postcard if you know how.

I don't think Carney is talking about this at all.

He is more likely attacking the ultra wealthy. By this, I mean people who have a net worth of at least $10 million. People who don't have to work for a living and can survive off their assets. Because of QE and money printing, these are the people have seen their assets inflated and their wealth increased. Unfortunately, these people also pay a fraction of the tax that you or I pay as a proportion of their income. When you have this much money, it's very easy to hire a tax accountant and jet around the world to avoid paying any, or almost no tax. This is why the burden of taxation falls far too heavily upon PAYE workers on the higher tax bands.

How is it just that an ordinary Joe Soap pays 50% tax on the average industrial wage when the likes of McManus, O'Brien, Desmond, U2, etc pay no tax on millions of income? It's amazing just how little press that this gets. I suppose when you own the press, you aren't going to want to highlight facts like this.

Francie Barrett

Skommando wrote: »

Social instability is not in their interest, and only in the interests of the extremists and headers like Trump.

The mad thing is Trump said he will cut corporation tax and abolish estate tax. Talk about draining the swamp!?

FortySeven

Google Nick Hanauer.

Skommando

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The mad thing is Trump said he will cut corporation tax and abolish estate tax. Talk about draining the swamp!?

Indeed, but even though a lot of ordinary american's know trump is a terrible alternative, they voted for him in protest, because he was the only non puppet candidate made available to them by the establishment, thinking of course that it was safe to do so, because they thought they could use the media to ensure that he could never win. That stunt backfired on the establishment big time, but have they learned the lessons ?

Wanderer78

Skommando wrote: »

What is news is someone from so high in the establishment publicly and openly warning the rest about it. And he's not talking about first world vs third world, he's talking about first world western society. He realises it's in his interests and the mega corporations to do something about it. Social instability is not in their interest, and only in the interests of the extremists and headers like Trump.

thats fair enough i guess but ive been following the work of many for some time that have been screaming about this for years, some decades. some of these people have been operating at high levels in our financial and political systems for many years now. mark carney is a very recognisable person though so hopefully this helps in forcing change. a lot of money is made from instability and more power and control can be achieved by the higher tiers of society.

CaptainR

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Most organisations are going through massive change at the minute as recommended by various consultancy bodies (big 4 cough). The introduction of technological improvements and automation is significantly lowering FTE requirements where savings then pass on favourably to the balance sheets.

Can't see these increased profits being transferred back to the average joe. Think many people will get caught out with the automation and now more than ever it's important to keep upskilling.

I agree. With technology improving rapidly and more things becoming automated we will see a big problem in the next 15 years. Every automated till and lodgement machine is putting someone out of a job, it might be more efficient to use one in Tesco or the bank when theres a queue but as the tech improves more jobs will become obsolete.

Its a bit like the legend of John Henry's Hammer where a railroad worker is replaced with a steam drill and he talks about how the steam drill has no family to feed but he does.

Skommando

CaptainR wrote: »

I agree. With technology improving rapidly and more things becoming automated we will see a big problem in the next 15 years. Every automated till and lodgement machine is putting someone out of a job, it might be more efficient to use one in Tesco or the bank when theres a queue but as the tech improves more jobs will become obsolete.

Its a bit like the legend of John Henry's Hammer where a railroad worker is replaced with a steam drill and he talks about how the steam drill has no family to feed but he does.

The usual counter spin is new technology jobs will replace the old ones lost, but that's not necessarily so, and even if they are, it's usually thousands of miles away.
Just look at the city of Detroit as a prime example, now ripe to be exploited by headers like Trump, and the extreme left / right depending on what country it's happening in.

Wanderer78

CaptainR wrote: »

I agree. With technology improving rapidly and more things becoming automated we will see a big problem in the next 15 years. Every automated till and lodgement machine is putting someone out of a job, it might be more efficient to use one in Tesco or the bank when theres a queue but as the tech improves more jobs will become obsolete.

Its a bit like the legend of John Henry's Hammer where a railroad worker is replaced with a steam drill and he talks about how the steam drill has no family to feed but he does.

highly debatable. deirdre mccloskey believes technology improves the lives of most but im not convinced myself. maybe i just need to read more into her work.

ChikiChiki

Wanderer78 wrote: »

highly debatable. deirdre mccloskey believes technology improves the lives of most but im not convinced myself. maybe i just need to read more into her work.

I suppose we are talking about the likes of the future office. Why do all that data entry when there's a piece of code that can do it at a fraction of the cost and 10 times more efficiently.

That puts a couple of people out of work and saves company a lot of money they on their annual wage bill. Will they feel the benefit from it as they are now unemployed and unskilled? Not a hope in hell.

Wanderer78

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I suppose we are talking about the likes of the future office. Why do all that data entry when there's a piece of code that can do it at a fraction of the cost and 10 times more efficiently.

That puts a couple of people out of work and saves company a lot of money they on their annual wage bill. Will they feel the benefit from it as they are now unemployed and unskilled? Not a hope in hell.

it would be ideal if we could design economic and financial systems that allow for these improvements in technology but the financial gains are shared more equally in society. i think the want from the majority of society is there for this but is this actually possible? there are some great ideas out there in trying to create these kind of systems but these ideas are struggling to make it to the actual action stage.

ZeroThreat

Seems with all this technology replacing workers, western society in general will have to reduce their populations to a (small) fraction of what it is today. No point in having masses of humanity with nothing to do and no purpose to exist.