is voice control a bit of a gimmick?

Stoner

We've seen people text each other while in the same room.

We never have our phones far away from us.

In most cases the command from the phone is more accurate and right first time.

Imo apart from having a disability where this kit would be fantastic, does anyone else find many of the voice commands a bit of an intrusion when compared to just using the app?

I think the radio and Spotify options are great but for general switching I find I use the app more, by more I mean all the time .

B-D-P--

To be honest, untill I can say: "Alexia, Make me some dinner" and not "whats the weather like in mayo"
I think there a novelty, When having guests, its a complete showboat that would make me feel like a fool.
Plus you have to stop conversation with actual people to talk to a bot to say Dim the lights.
Naa, its silly if you ask me

bk

I'm the opposite, I find I use voice commands way more then the app.

I suppose partly it is because I don't tend to be on my phone much, I'm usually on my laptop. So I find it less trouble to just say a command then look for my phone, unlock it, find the app, launch it and navigate the app.

Even when I do have phone, in hand, I still find it easier to use voice. For instance I've gotten into the habit of using siri to turn the thermostat and lights on and off when using the phone, rather then the apps. I just find it easier then having to remember which app to use, find it, etc.

In fact I find it so easy, that it has made me far more enthusiastic about HA tech and thus all the recent purchases.

But of course everyone is different, so whichever works for you.

Atomic Pineapple

In home automation it makes way more sense, in car voice commands obviously it makes sense, in general life its a gimmick. Basically it will find its place where its useful. For me home automation is pointless without voice control, using many different apps for HA doesn't make any sense, a hub like Echo or Google Home is perfect.

super_furry

Only when it works every single time you try to use it, will it not be a gimmick. Think we're still a good bit away from that though.

JDxtra

I've said "OK Google" to my phone probably twice, and that was only to test its accuracy. These devices will suit some, but I don't think they'll be mainstream.

Graham

super_furry wrote: »

Only when it works every single time you try to use it, will it not be a gimmick. Think we're still a good bit away from that though.

That's just put pretty much every HA product currently on the market into the gimmick category.

I don't disagree with the need for close to 100% reliability though.

Alun

JDxtra wrote: »

I've said "OK Google" to my phone probably twice, and that was only to test its accuracy. These devices will suit some, but I don't think they'll be mainstream.

Same here. Tried it out 2 or 3 times and had to correct it twice so gave up. I felt pretty stupid doing it while on my own, so would feel orders of magnitude more stupid doing it when around other people.

Tom Cruises Left Nut

It has its uses, lazy sunday on the couch and you want to turn the lamp on etc.

It only compliments an app / remote etc.

I find it a great addition but I doubt it would ever fully replace the other options

Stoner

Graham wrote:

I don't disagree with the need for close to 100% reliability though.

Yes it was a good point by super furry. It's the certainty of delivery that drives me to the app. Also adjusting and dimming lights that's a lot of voice commands unless you settle for scenes

bk

super_furry wrote: »

Only when it works every single time you try to use it, will it not be a gimmick. Think we're still a good bit away from that though.

In fairness, I find Google Home to be close to 98%. Control of lights, TV, Thermostat all working well and very consistent.

JDxtra wrote: »

I've said "OK Google" to my phone probably twice, and that was only to test its accuracy. These devices will suit some, but I don't think they'll be mainstream.

Alun wrote: »

Same here. Tried it out 2 or 3 times and had to correct it twice so gave up. I felt pretty stupid doing it while on my own, so would feel orders of magnitude more stupid doing it when around other people.

Google has two different Voice assistants. The old OK Google, wasn't very good and the new "Google Assistant" which seems to be a lot better. The new Assistant is only available currently in Google Home, Google Allo and the new Google Pixel phones. So unless you have one of those, you aren't really using it.

wexfordman2

JDxtra wrote: »

I've said "OK Google" to my phone probably twice, and that was only to test its accuracy. These devices will suit some, but I don't think they'll be mainstream.

I think you might find yourself with the same level of surprise as General Custer at the battle of little bighorn when he famously said "where did all these ducking Indians come from"


In a few years, not next month, bit as this tech develops, within a few years there will be lots of "indians" about the place :-)

adox

For the music streaming services alone its a must. The Dot cost me little money and is a fantastic tool for streaming music. So convenient, I use it all the time for it.

Also use it to control my Hue lights. Its a hell of a lot more convenient than using an app.

The other main uses I have for it are in the morning before heading to work I ask about my commute. I can tell from the estimated travel time whether the M50 is moving ok or not. I also ask it to open Big Sky and get the weather for the day, a summary with an option of a more detailed forecast.

These are all features I use daily and for £50 it was a steal.

Stoner

bk wrote:

Google has two different Voice assistants. The old OK Google, wasn't very good and the new "Google Assistant" which seems to be a lot better. The new Assistant is only available currently in Google Home, Google Allo and the new Google Pixel phones. So unless you have one of those, you aren't really using it.

I find OK Google to be very accurate, but I'm not using it in public.

I find the echo commands to control smart devices to be embarrassing inaccurate.

adox

Also I think when Apple finally come on board with a similar device thats when you will see the market really take off.

Graham

bk wrote: »

In fairness, I find Google Home to be close to 98%.

Not ideal if 2% of the time your front-door unlocks and your alarm switches on when your changing radio station.

Stoner

adox wrote:

Also I think when Apple finally come on board with a similar device thats when you will see the market really take off.

I don't think so tbh. I don't think it will be much better, I honestly don't see what they'd bring to the table that the others haven't
It's more down to third party suppliers imo.
The channels and control are all fairly identical. It's just expensive kit. The Amazon, Google and possibly apple bit are the inexpensive element. Amazon were in ahead of everyone else.
Apart from knowing that apple have worked with Philips on the hue lighting , I know they've worked with Google too as it's the first third party integration on the Google Onhub.

Working with others is not something that sets apple apart. imo this technology is independent of choosing between the three. If apple had a unit before Google I'd have it and not the google one. But I'm not getting all three.
The investment for me will be in kit, cameras , locks, lights etc. I'm pretty much done now tbh apart from some lamps

adox

Stoner wrote: »

I don't think so tbh. I don't think it will be much better, I honestly don't see what they'd bring to the table that the others haven't
It's more down to third party suppliers imo.
The channels and control are all fairly identical. It's just expensive kit. The Amazon, Google and possibly apple bit are the inexpensive element. Amazon were in ahead of everyone else.
Apart from knowing that apple have worked with Philips on the hue lighting , I know they've worked with Google too as it's the first third party integration on the Google Onhub.

Working with others is not something that sets apple apart. imo this technology is independent of choosing between the three. If apple had a unit before Google I'd have it and not the google one. But I'm not getting all three.
The investment for me will be in kit, cameras , locks, lights etc. I'm pretty much done now tbh apart from some lamps

I dont mean that they will do it better. I mean that once they bring their product and name to the party and interest will increase hugely and Im sure they will market it to the hilt.

They already support Philips Hue and others so I wouldnt see integration being a problem.

Stoner

Graham wrote:

Not ideal if 2% of the time your front-door unlocks and your alarm switches on when your changing radio station.

Well as demonstrated to BK my then 15 month old was getting some joy from Alexa with his soother in. That gets annoying

Atomic Pineapple

adox wrote: »

I dont mean that they will do it better. I mean that once they bring their product and name to the party and interest will increase hugely and Im sure they will market it to the hilt.

They already support Philips Hue and others so I wouldnt see integration being a problem.

Same thing was said about smart watches........

adox

Atomic Pineapple wrote: »

Same thing was said about smart watches........

...and smart phones

....and tablets.

Anyway its just an opinion.

Atomic Pineapple

adox wrote: »

...and smart phones

....and tablets.

Anyway its just an opinion.

I know, my comment was in jest, not having a dig.

What propelled the iPhone to its success was the eco system, not the device itself, it will be the same with voice hubs, the ecosystem will dictate it's mainstream success or failure.

seamus

Atomic Pineapple wrote: »

I know, my comment was in jest, not having a dig.

What propelled the iPhone to its success was the eco system, not the device itself, it will be the same with voice hubs, the ecosystem will dictate it's mainstream success or failure.

To be fair, the iPhone itself as a device was very core to its success. I don't think it can be said enough just how head and shoulders above the competition the iPhone 3G was. In terms of the OS, the design and the overall functionality, at that time nobody was even close to touching it. The app store was sparse in comparison to today, but you're right that it made a big difference how easy it was to extend the functionality of your phone by simply downloading software.

But if the device itself didn't come up to scratch, it would never have taken hold. The idea of spending more than €200 on a phone at that time was obscene. Apple just managed to touch on a whole host of perfect notes to make it work, and nobody else was even close.

It's continued success was the growth of the app store, which in turn was a response to the success of the device.

Hopefully we see the same kind of thing with echo and GH. Detecting who's in the room using NFC or bluetooth, for example, and allowing each of them to talk to the device as individuals. More functionality using just software, not bolt-on costly accessories. That's the key to success.

I think Apple are already behind the curve on this one. iPhone and iOS market share has been dipping. They generally specialise in "premium" devices. So they'll make a niche for themselves with the same crowd who spend twice as much as they need to on a laptop and convince themselves it's a better device. But as we've seen with the iPhone and iPad, they need to be first to market to make a real impact.

The slowness though of GH & Amazon to push home automation in Europe though means that Apple could make inroads here if they go for a wider release sooner. The vast majority of people over here are completely unaware that these devices exist, so a fancy launch event and and aggressive marketing campaign could convince people that Apple have "done it again".

On the topic of the OP, my driver for buying an echo* is the amount of times I'm standing in my kitchen, needing to check something. It takes 30 seconds to dry your hands (because you're in the middle of chopping veg), take your phone out, unlock it, open chrome, type in the search query, make five mistakes, correct 3 of them and press go. Insanely fast in historical terms, irritating now. With one of these devices I don't even have to look up from what I'm doing to make the same request.

*Arrived today. Can't open it for 24 more days. Boo

paulbok

adox wrote: »

Also I think when Apple finally come on board with a similar device thats when you will see the market really take off.

The ITalk 2, by Myself

degsie

paulbok wrote: »

The ITalk 2, by Myself

It will be the slimmest iTalk yet!

Shred

Personally I use (siri) voice control multiple times a day and find it works very well. I use it mainly for playing music in the car, calling people in the car and sending full SMSs in the car also with punctuation the lot. I'd also use it a lot when cooking, (hey siri, set timer for x minutes, convert this weight to that) etc etc. If my hands are wet I'll say "hey siri, call joe blogs on speaker" and off it pops...It's not perfect but it works very, very well. My experience with OK Google using both a Samsung S4 and Nexus 5 over 2-3 years was more of a mixed bag to be very kind, although I've read that the new google assistant or whatever it's called is supposed to be a lot better. I've also begun using it for my Hue lights and will be giving it a lash when the Nest goes in this weekend. I'd also use voice control with the Xbox One for switching between apps and using the TV along with pausing/rewind/stopping media etc, It works fairly well but more so when I'm on my own or no one else is speaking. Plus I'll use teh voice control in the car often for various functions too.

There's certainly a future in it imo.

Special Circumstances

Voice control/speech recognition is probably interesting for anybody who hasn't tried calling out their PPS number to the revenue phonebot, or tried to setup bluetooth in a mitsubishi. Or people who like to regularly pretend they work in the BBC.

Me? I've interfaced with far far far too many poor implementations. Even my old android Samsung is complete muck. Someday someone will hear me shouting "Don't make me f**king come over there!"at it.

Zascar

I use Google Now all the time! I find it brilliant, totally invaluable. It's got really good recently I find, and since I have got a better phone (OnePlus 3) which is more powerful I find the speed and accuracy of the voice recognition to be excellent. Even I might mumble something or say the wrong word and correct myself, it gets it tight. It recognises words I can't even spell! I use it for reminders and adding tasks to my notes/shopping list all the time. I got a smartwatch to make things even easier so I don't have to take my phone out of my pocket and it worked great for a while but as someone already said, if it does not work every time then its annoying. I feel my watch was very much version 1.0 and it would improve with version 2.0.

I'm awaiting delivery of my Echo but very excited about what I'll use it for. Sure turning lights on and off etc is fun but its the asking questions that I could google, but I can get an instant answer without any clicks etc that I'm looking forward to. I'm buying one as a present for my sister as she had two kids and I know they'll get great use and fun out of it. My memory is like a sieve and I want to be able to shout commands that it will list down in my notes or add to my shopping list, things to do, wishlist etc.

The technology is clearly in it's infancy but is already very impressive. Give it another year or two and this type of thing is going to be fairly ubiquitous. If you think about it typing on a smartphone is very inefficient. Having this in the car etc would be brilliant.

B-D-P-- wrote: »

To be honest, untill I can say: "Alexia, Make me some dinner" I think there a novelty,

Well, it works with Just Eat, so you can order a chinese or a pizza and have it delivered without doing anything but using your voice!

bk

Graham wrote: »

Not ideal if 2% of the time your front-door unlocks and your alarm switches on when your changing radio station.

Well I've never had it fail in that way! When it does fail, it just fails in such a way that it does nothing, says sorry it doesn't understand. I've never had it do something different then what I asked.

Also I would never allow my alarm system or smart lock to be disarmed/unlocked just by voice *. Allow them to be armed or check status, sure, but obviously no disarm.

* Until we have reliable voice verification.

seamus

Closest thing to a "chat" thread we have. When I showed my wife the ad for the echo she was fairly skeptical. Reckons it was a gimmick, it was a piece of technology that wouldn't be used, it would annoy her, etc. She wouldn't be a technophobe, but she would rarely be interested in new technology as a way to do things. I think if she wasn't married to me she'd still have a Nokia 3210 and a camera that uses film.

So she arrives home last night after dinner with her mates, and there had been a discussion around someone doing a course who needed to type up all her assignments, but can't type for ****, etc etc. Someone else remarked that she should just dictate it to her phone, no need for any typing at all. But then they all realised they had no idea how to do it - a solicitor had seen someone else do it in court, but had never done it herself.

So my wife gets home, asks about it and I kind of shrug, "yeah, easy". She assumes that you need a special phone or an expensive app. I open the notes app on her iPhone and demo it.

She's blown away by the accuracy and simplicity. Which bodes well for the echo I'm going to install in the kitchen...

alastair

seamus wrote: »

She's blown away by the accuracy and simplicity. Which bodes well for the echo I'm going to install in the kitchen...

The Echo has a way to go to match Siri though. A fair amount of miscommunication will be on the cards for a while yet. It usually gets it right, but far from perfected.

Stoner

https://www.fastcodesign.com/3066732/why-is-the-home-automation-industry-so-obsessed-with-voice-control

I'd agree with a lot of this. I still just use the apps for switching

bk

Stoner wrote: »

https://www.fastcodesign.com/3066732/why-is-the-home-automation-industry-so-obsessed-with-voice-control

I'd agree with a lot of this. I still just use the apps for switching

Yup, though if you read carefully he isn't talking about apps. He is talking about "text" and specifically AI in Facebook messenger.

To be honest, I'm not at all convinced by that. Are people really going to take their phone out of their pocket, unlock their phone, launch Facebook messenger and start a conversation with an AI there just to turn on the lights or change the channel! I really don't think so.

Sure nothing wrong with having an AI in a messenger and asking it to do something if you happen to have it open at the time. But I think it is a massive mistake to think it is the only place you will have it and so far it feels like Facebook have missed the boat on it.

I think we will have these AI's everywhere and that we will simply interact with it in whatever is the most convenient (and socially acceptable) for the time, place and task. We will have it in every room in our house via voice, in the car, on every screen (tv, laptop, tablet, phone) and smart watch. We will interact with them in different ways, at different times and for different tasks. Sometimes we will ask it questions by voice, sometimes by text, another time by apps. And they will answer in different ways depending on the task, by voice or by displaying the answer on the nearest screen.

GHome and Echo aren't meant to be the be all and to replace everything that has come before. No, they are meant to be an important missing piece in human machine interaction and to work alongside all the other ways that we have had to interact with machines for decades now (apps, text, etc.).

And BTW voice isn't the only new way to interact with machines. Vision and movement are two others. You have Xbox camera and Wii movement wands. And now you have IP cameras that can detect movement, to differentiate between a human and a pet and even starting to identify people!

All of these technologies will continue to develop, improve and merge over time.

BTW I have to say that I think the example given in the article is rather contrived. Zuck says if someone calls at the door you don't want an AI voice announcing it and disturbing your other guests. Instead your phone would discreetly vibrate and you would pull it out and use it to open the door!

I don't know, sure if you are hosting 100 people parties every night and you are constantly having people calling at the door that might be the case, but I don't think it is true for most people! I think most people don't have many people who call at the door and most families would be interested in knowing who is calling. I know any time someone calls at our door and I go and answer, that when I return the OH is always asking me who it was!

I'd love to have a ring doorbell that could identify who is calling and then have GHome announce that the neighbour Kevin is at the door and for me to be able to tell GHome to let him in. I don't think most of us have Zucks problems!

I know everyone is different in their use of technology like this and that is great, we should be embracing that there are so many different ways to do things now.

That I can turn on my lights by a physical switch, or an app or by voice or by geolocation or by time or by light levels. An option for every different type of person.

For me, I find I control my home automation tech using voice about 50% time, using physical controls (Hue switches, Harmony remote, Netatmo Thermostat) about 40% of the time and use the apps only about 10%

Basically the only time I use the apps now is for remote access and for complicated initial setup and the very odd time when I've lost the remote in the room.

But then again everyone is different and that is the beauty of this tech, there is something here for everyone

unkel

Voice control is not a gimmick. This time last year, when I left the living room for the night, I had to switch off 3 or 4 lamps. Unplug several Christmas lights, on the fireplace, on the Christmas tree and the outside lights.

This year I say "Alexa, lights off" and that's it. QED.

Total investment: 2 * €24.95 plug + 1 * £39.99 Echo dot. So about €100 was all...

Stoner

unkel wrote:

This year I say "Alexa, lights off" and that's it. QED.

I've a scene switch on the wall, with an all off button and an all on button , has three scenes too. I haven't used voice control there since I got it .

I showed it off twice today though and use it for music every day.

ibFoxer

I think I'm fairly new to the game, but apart from the odd disconnection issue which has more to do with my wifi than anything else, I find it to be super. Have a Dot upstairs, one downstairs in the front room and a Google Home in the kitchen. White Hue lights in the hall, landing, coloured in the front room (aptly named cave),2 coloured in the kitchen with a white in a lamp controlled by a dimmer. Herself found the colour change last night and decided red and green for Christmas Day, and promptly asked me could we have a smart house, so I'm all set ��

I have a bunch of different scenarios for coming, going, on and off, times etc. Loving it.

Stoner

So from my point of view voice control for Google searches and for use with Spotify Google home and the Dot is better than typing.

But I prefer buttons ( soft and hard) for switching

unkel

Stoner wrote: »

But I prefer buttons ( soft and hard) for switching

I understand where you're coming from and I like buttons / switches in general too and I do acknowledge that voice can be a bit daft in company, but there is a lot to say for it.

Your voice is always with you (bit of a cliché ), you never have to go over to where the switch / button / plug is and like bk, I'm not on my phone that much and it would take me forever to control anything with my phone

bk

Yup, well I definitely don't think it is a gimmick (the OP's question), I definitely think it is here to stay and will only improve over time.

But also it won't necessarily replace all the old ways of doing things either, physical buttons, apps, etc. They all have their place.

What I find interesting about this question, is that this is a new technology and any time we get a new interface to machines, it takes time for people to figure out how to best use it. How does it work best, what circumstances to use it for, what use cases, when is it socially acceptable to use it, etc.

When touch screens first came about, some people thought they would end up being used everywhere, even in offices! Well now we know that just didn't happen, other then the odd exception, a keyboard and mouse still rules the office environment, because they are still much better then touch screens for office use. But that doesn't mean touch screens were useless either, of course not, we all carry a touch screen smart phone around in our pocket now and many have touch screen tablets. We just had to figure out when and where to use them.

With voice, we will go through a similar evolution as people figure out how to use it, when and what for. It is very interesting times we live in

unkel

bk wrote: »

It is very interesting times we live in

Isn't it just? We are very lucky to be alive in these times when so much is changing. I remember telling people that we were in the greatest revolution of mankind back in the mid 90s with the WWW starting to explode and people looked at me like I was on drugs. Now, just 20 years later, everything is completely different from what it was 30 years ago

Stoner

I think that intellectual profiling and automation will supersede a lot of voice control features, as it stands I used Google home to role a dice and start a timer for a minute a number of times today. we also had a laugh at how well it understands me compared to some of the others, I was the only one to get it to play Wham, last Christmas, that turned out to be a bit freaky too, well maybe not, it was Christmas day after all.

Stoner

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/757789/Amazon-Echo-Google-Home-Apps-Unistall

Some rated data on some of the third party integration, shows a lower retention rate on Echo and Home to Android and IOS