Grant Euroflame 70/90 HE utility

Wearb

Have just gotten a call to attend a breakdown on the above. It hasn't been serviced in 3 years. 1/3rd tank of oil. Burned about 1800 liters kero since last service. RDB 2.2 burner.

Reset light on burner illuminated. Nothing happens when pressed, not even a hum.

I am a little stuck for time tomorrow so I need to hit the ground running on this. What do I check for?
Control Box? Motor? PC?..maybe. Cap?...maybe. Seized pump?..maybe.
Except for control box and motor, I would expect some sort of sound.
Any thoughts?

ServiceGuy

Did they say if the reset light goes out when pressed. I find sometimes the customer doesn't hear the faint hum.

TPM

if nothing at all check capacitor, then control box, then motor,
some rdb control boxes have been known to give trouble always good to have a spare with you

Wearb

ServiceGuy wrote: »

Did they say if the reset light goes out when pressed. I find sometimes the customer doesn't hear the faint hum.

Unlikely that there is a hum. I really went through that with customer.

Wearb

TPM wrote: »

if nothing at all check capacitor, then control box, then motor,
some rdb control boxes have been known to give trouble always good to have a spare with you

Those are my lines of thought. Was wondering if I was missing something?

agusta

If reset light is illuminated and when pressed the capacitor is not buzzing.
Firstly I would be checking for 230 volts across L and N under load .Also checking for 230 volts across L and E under load. i.e when reset button is pressed.
Or you could connect up an electrical item drawing 2 or 3 amps and see if the power supply is ok.

Wearb

agusta wrote: »

If reset light is illuminated and when pressed the capacitor is not buzzing.
Firstly I would be checking for 230 volts across L and N under load .Also checking for 230 volts across L and E under load. i.e when reset button is pressed.
Or you could connect up an electrical item drawing 2 or 3 amps and see if the power supply is ok.

Thanks
I will keep that in mind. I have used my halogen standard light for such purposes in the past.

Can't see why I need to press the reset button for the test though?

agusta

If the lockout light is on its not drawing any power.it would be similar to connecting up the halogen light but not turning on the switch on the light.i may not be of help but for me getting 220 under load is the starting point.

Wearb

Thanks Agusta

TPM

Wearb wrote: »

Those are my lines of thought. Was wondering if I was missing something?

thinking aloud
photocell tends to leave motor running rather than doing nothing
solenoid/coil would run but not fire
oil problem same
pump seized humming, key gone would run
could be loose wire in control box

and as agusta said check actual voltage(tbh i wouldnt have thought of that till I eliminated other stuff)

Wearb

TPM wrote: »

thinking aloud
photocell tends to leave motor running rather than doing nothing
solenoid/coil would run but not fire
oil problem same
pump seized humming, key gone would run
could be loose wire in control box

and as agusta said check actual voltage(tbh i wouldnt have thought of that till I eliminated other stuff)

Yes I was thinking along the same lines. That was why I had written "maybe" on those items.

I wrote here some while ago about getting a correct no load voltage and using a lamp to load it. Wires had been chewed by vermin. They were touching enough for multimeter to read correct voltage. But failed under load.

Thanks for giving it some thought.

jimf

at a guess id say you will probably hear the hum when you get there

had 1 like this last year no hum red light on control box sorted it


but sometimes they don't hum unless you put on a bit of music

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

red light on control box sorted it

So I need a new red light ???

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

So I need a new red light ???

only available to agusta and myself in limerick

red lights are hard to come by

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

only available to agusta and myself in limerick

red lights are hard to come by

Yeah lots of them down that way alright

jimf

bandit country

TPM

Wearb wrote: »

I wrote here some while ago about getting a correct no load voltage and using a lamp to load it. Wires had been chewed by vermin. They were touching enough for multimeter to read correct voltage. But failed under load.

thats where the extension lead comes in handy

agusta

If power under load is confirmed ok
pull motor wires lug from control box
test for 230 across the lugs where the blue and the black wire go,
if you dont get 230,new control box

you can also test motor with different power source if required, blue wire is live,black wire is neutral,if capacitor,motor turning freely,motor ok,motor will start

Wearb

agusta wrote: »

If power under load is confirmed ok
pull motor wires lug from control box
test for 230 across the lugs where the blue and the black wire go,
if you dont get 230,new control box

you can also test motor with different power source if required, blue wire is live,black wire is neutral,if capacitor,motor turning freely,motor ok,motor will start

Probably can use a jumper to bypass CB to see if motor turns. Often did it on the mectron.

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

bandit country

Ok I suppose I have to drag it out of you. What was wrong with your humming burner (above). Capacitor?

jimf

it wasn't humming and it was the control box

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

it wasn't humming and it was the control box

Ok. Get it now.
I must send down a box of commas with the sloe gin.

jimf

thanks very much they will never arrive

agusta

Wearb wrote: »

Probably can use a jumper to bypass CB to see if motor turns. Often did it on the mectron.

Yes ,if motor turns at least you know what side of the burner the fault is on

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

thanks very much they will never arrive

You just don't want to make Tom jealous by admitting you got it last year. Cheers.

Ah F it. I can't get used to calling him Tom. SCUDO.

TPM

if i have 230v, cap checked ok and resistance on the motor I change the controlbox, its nearly as quick as bypassing the control box and generally tends to be the fault, when no humming that is
HHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

agusta

Tom doesnt feel right for me either,its scudo again so

Wearb

jimf

did you put on a bit of guns and roses and what was wrong with it or do we have to drag it out of you

nice cap reading

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

did you put on a bit of guns and roses and what was wrong with it or do we have to drag it out of you

nice cap reading

WHAT WAS WRONG WITH IT? Move away from that plume and wipe the specs ))

Strange one. No hum when I turned it on. Not a peep out of it. Went out and brought in a few tools and while setting up the multi meter, away she fires. Left it running a few minutes and turned it on and off a few times without problems.
Anyway tried the cap and as you can see, it was at less than 50%. Pulled the burner to visually check nozzle area and combustion area. All good. PC as clean as a whistle.
New cap in it now. FGA done to cover rear.
Hopefully that's it sorted.

Wearb

ServiceGuy wrote: »

Did they say if the reset light goes out when pressed. I find sometimes the customer doesn't hear the faint hum.

Sorry serviceguy. I missed your post.

What does the light going out when pressed indicate ?

jimf

oh ya out of the plume now all that ould high co isn't good for the brain


that's another new one about cap rdb burners never cease to amaze

usually some kind of a hum

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

oh ya out of the plume now all that ould high co isn't good for the brain


that's another new one about cap rdb burners never cease to amaze

usually some kind of a hum

New to me also. Also the delayed start even with that cap.

Maybe it saw the lump hammer in my tool tray . And decided it better fire up.

Wearb

Is this a PRV?

TPM

a good old aav

Prv pressure relief valve

agusta

grant aav with the cap missing

Wearb

agusta wrote: »

grant aav with the cap missing

agusta wrote: »

grant aav with the cap missing

Yes it's on a grant.on top of the boiler. I never noticed one like it before- with a side outlet.

I can't find a Prv on it anywhere except one in the hot press upstairs. Is that an acceptable arrangement?

agusta

Is it a grant utility boiler..., the aav comes with the boiler

Wearb

agusta wrote: »

Is it a grant utility boiler..., the aav comes with the boiler

Yes. As the thread name says. I would have expected it where that AAV is or nearby.

agusta

You will probably find it behind the carcass of the press beside the boiler on the flow.You might also see a 1/2" pipe coming outside the house which would be the pipe plumbed off the prv

Wearb

agusta wrote: »

You will probably find it behind the carcass of the press beside the boiler on the flow.You might also see a 1/2" pipe coming outside the house which would be the pipe plumbed off the prv

Thanks Agusta. I will give another look.
Didn't see any piping that might be attached. Having said that, the condensate pipe goes into the wall inside, but no sign of it outside. Must drop in the cavity and connect to something underground.
If there is something similar at the back of the boiler cabinet, it would be very difficult to see.

I will have to remove some worktop to get a good look.
I will talk to customer about it. At least there is a prv on the system, just too far away for comfort.

agusta

Wearb wrote: »

Thanks Agusta. I will give another look.
Didn't see any piping that might be attached. Having said that, the condensate pipe goes into the wall inside, but no sign of it outside. Must drop in the cavity and connect to something underground.
If there is something similar at the back of the boiler cabinet, it would be very difficult to see.

I will have to remove some worktop to get a good look.
I will talk to customer about it. At least there is a prv on the system, just too far away for comfort.

There just might be a removable back fitted on the inside of the press beside the boiler.If not i agree that removing the counter top is the best option,where is the circulating pump located.
I would be more worried about where the condensate pipe is going.

Wearb

agusta wrote: »

There just might be a removable back fitted on the inside of the press beside the boiler.If not i agree that removing the counter top is the best option,where is the circulating pump located.
I would be more worried about where the condensate pipe is going.

Circulating pump is on RH side outside casing- as you face front of boiler. It is neatly boxed in with a full length MDF L shaped removable panel.

Wearb

Just been reading the manual on this. It seems that Grant doesn't request a PRV on an open system. All mentions of a PRV are referenced to a sealed system.

TPM

and grant also do a system kit for the outdoor module that locates the circulating pump on the flow pipe and leaves the highest point in the casing.
great idea if you like your pumps prone to airlocking and running dry

agusta

TPM wrote: »

and grant also do a system kit for the outdoor module that locates the circulating pump on the flow pipe and leaves the highest point in the casing.
great idea if you like your pumps prone to airlocking and running dry

could you explain a little more.., just trying to understand

Johnny Macwilliams

Wearb wrote: »

Is this a PRV?

Oh sweet Jesus

anthonyos

When I did my plumbing apprenticeship I learned that the prv is the first connection from the boiler always it worrys so me that there are guys out there that don't know the difference between aav and a prv .I there was a joke of some kind to follow but it was a genuine question

TPM

agusta wrote: »

could you explain a little more.., just trying to understand

you can buy a system kit from grant for the vortex outdoor module
it comes with pump, safety valve, aav, pre made pipe work etc.

when you put it all together it locates the pump on top of the boiler on the flow pipe, if system pressure drops or there is air in the system it tends to let the pump run dry and/or overheat