Potential domestic abuse next door

TheSegal

This could be the completely wrong forum to post in but i'm looking for advice on my neighbours. They argue daily at this stage, I live on the floor beneath them but they scream at each other so loudly I can hear them through the floor as clear as day. At first I felt nosey listening but it's so loud my housemates and I can't help but hear it.

As an example yesterday morning at 8:30 I heard the man shout at his GF/wife 'You've never supported me, not ****ing once, you always put me down at every opportunity' followed by slamming doors. The arguments always follow the same pattern, small indiscernible arguing followed by the guy storming to either his room or out of the apartment while screaming at her about her always putting him down. Then the girl and her friend/sister sit out on the balcony over my house smoking and giving out about who I can only assume is the guy who left.

I'm not sure is it due to the increased ad presence on TV that's making me think this or the severity of the arguing but should I report this as domestic abuse to the authoritys? I'm afraid of going up and knocking on their door due to the fear of them turning on me. I'm also not sure who is starting the argument so I don't want to just report either of them for abusing the other.

Can anybody help me because i'm afraid something bad is going to happen some time.

lifeandtimes

Unfortunately you can't report domestic abuse unless it's actually happened,sounds like shouting matches and by the sounds of it both are giving as good as there getting in the shouting match.

However as a tenant you have a right to quiet and peaceful dwelling and if this impacting on that right you can report it too your landlord or building management who will look into it for you.

Good luck oo

TheSegal

Thanks for the quick reply. Does that mean that I can not report any sort of domestic abuse unless I physically see either the guy or the girl abusing the other person either verbally or physically?

silverharp

it kind of sounds like they are well able for each other, I'd be on to them to keep it down and that its not fair to the neighbours to have to listen to their arguments, I'd be more worried if only one of the parties was shouting.

Xterminator

OP do you fear for the security of one of your neighbours, or are you unhappy at the noise/scene or do you think you can fix a dysfunctional relationship?

your scene above would in no way make ME think i needed to intervene or report this to the guards etc for the safety of either of the parties.

so what do you wish to achieve? you could anonymously drop a leaflet in the door when the partner is out. or invite her for a coffee and give advice but unsolicited advice could be unwelcome & misconstrued.

If its the disturbance that upsets you - then perhaps this is the wrong forum - so im going to assume thats not it.

Gatling

Sounds like two people that are either very unhappy or two people with communication issues or both ,
Id stay clear for the most part but I would make a complaint to the management company about the noise

Big Bag of Chips

It doesn't sound like domestic abuse. Just two people fighting, and one storming off to cool down. If the rows get very loud you could probably call the guards and report a domestic disturbance, but I wouldn't call it domestic violence. It sounds probable though that by the time the guards came out yer man would be gone and yer wan would be out on the balcony smoking.

Is there a management company that you can complain to about noise?

GingerLily

TheSegal wrote: »

Thanks for the quick reply. Does that mean that I can not report any sort of domestic abuse unless I physically see either the guy or the girl abusing the other person either verbally or physically?

What abuse do you think is going on? From the example you gave I actually am not sure.

Estrellita

Make a complaint to the management about the noise, make a record of times and dates it occurs. This doesn't sound like a case of abuse, but the fact they don't get along is not your problem.

seamus

It's good that you're vigilant and you should never let yourself become complacent.

But it doesn't sound like there's a physically abusive situation going on. They're clearly two hot heads who continually clash, but from your description have the sense to walk away to cool down rather than letting it continually escalate.

Ultimately the question is always about what you would hope to achieve. You can't stop them fighting. There doesn't appear to be any specific abuse going on (though one could make all sorts of philosophical analysis about that).
At best, you could make a report to the Gardai. However, general protocol in such reports, even when there is no evidence of violence, is to suspect the man or even force him to leave the property. So while your aim may be to simply draw their attention to the fact that their neighbours can hear them fighting, you could end up making a bad relationship into an even worse one.

You could try an anonymous, "Your neighbours can hear you fighting" note; but what would that achieve in reality?

Realistically unless you're willing to knock on the door and offer to be an impartial mediator, then all you can do is continue to be vigilant for signs of actual domestic abuse, but otherwise keep schtum.

retro:electro

Shocked that some people still think it's only domestic abuse if there's physical violence. There is no doubt about it that this couple are living in a domestically violent household. You don't need to see bruising or hear plates clattering to confirm that, what you've heard is enough. One row or two, fair enough any neighbour would let that slide; but there seems to be pattern here and it's not something I would be comfortable ignoring.
Some comments here are very concerning and go against everything that the media has tried so hard to encourage in the past few years.

GingerLily

anna080 wrote: »

Shocked that some people still think it's only domestic abuse if there's physical violence. There is no doubt about it that this couple are living in a domestically violent household. You don't need to see bruising or hear plates clattering to confirm that, what you've heard is enough. One row or two, fair enough any neighbour would let that slide; but there seems to be pattern here and it's not something I would be comfortable ignoring.
Some comments here are very concerning and go against everything that the media has tried so hard to encourage in the past few years.

So what is your advise? Who do you think should be reported? The man because he must be the guilty one?
There's no evidence from the OP that one person here is a vicitim and the other an abuser, they both sound equally guilty and the Gardai won't get involved in cases like this.

Estrellita

anna080 wrote: »

Shocked that some people still think it's only domestic abuse if there's physical violence. There is no doubt about it that this couple are living in a domestically violent household. You don't need to see bruising or hear plates clattering to confirm that, what you've heard is enough. One row or two, fair enough any neighbour would let that slide; but there seems to be pattern here and it's not something I would be comfortable ignoring.

You have no idea what these arguments are about. It's normal enough for couples to argue from time to time, it can often clear the air. The problem with modern day properties is that the walls can be paper thin without any kind of sound proofing to speak of. As a result of this, your business becomes everyone elses.

I'm not implying that we would get as bad as the OP's neighbours, but my OH and I have been under very serious pressure lately. The odd tiff might happen because the house we are trying to buy is hitting one obstacle after the other. Ironically, we hate where we currently live because of neighbours. We are very upset over it. It's neither one of our fault that it's taking so long, but without realising it at the time we might take it out on the other a bit.

My point is, you don't know what it is they are fighting about. I know I wouldn't be best pleased if a neighbour called the police purely because one of us was merely releasing some steam. I'd much rather you came around and said that we had gotten a bit loud. The chances are these neighbours mightn't be aware they can be heard so clearly.

Not every argument has to be chalked up to physical or verbal abuse.

retro:electro

GingerLily wrote: »

So what is your advise? Who do you think should be reported? The man because he must be the guilty one?
There's no evidence from the OP that one person here is a vicitim and the other an abuser, they both sound equally guilty and the Gardai won't get involved in cases like this.

So you think one person has to be dominant in order for it to be considered domestic abuse? They could both be abusive here. I'm not saying the op needs to be specific. He/she just needs to report an ongoing domestic situation in the house below him. You are mad if you think the Garda won't get involved, of course they will.

retro:electro

Estrellita wrote: »

You have no idea what these arguments are about. It's normal enough for couples to argue from time to time, it can often clear the air. The problem with modern day properties is that the walls can be paper thin without any kind of sound proofing to speak of. As a result of this, your business becomes everyone elses.

I'm not implying that we would get as bad as the OP's neighbours, but my OH and I have been under very serious pressure lately. The odd tiff might happen because the house we are trying to buy is hitting one obstacle after the other. Ironically, we hate where we currently live because of neighbours. We are very upset over it. It's neither one of our fault that it's taking so long, but without realising it at the time we might take it out on the other a bit.

My point is, you don't know what it is they are fighting about. I know I wouldn't be best pleased if a neighbour called the police purely because one of us was merely releasing some steam. I'd much rather you came around and said that we had gotten a bit loud. The chances are these neighbours mightn't be aware they can be heard so clearly.

Not every argument has to be chalked up to physical or verbal abuse.

The op said this is happening every single day. This needs to be reported. Your attitude along with some others on this thread is depressing.

njs030

anna080 wrote: »

So you think one person has to be dominant in order for it to be considered domestic abuse? They could both be abusive here. I'm not saying the op needs to be specific. He/she just needs to report an ongoing domestic situation in the house below him. You are mad if you think the Garda won't get involved, of course they will.

No they won't. Physical abuse is illegal and the guards can intervene, arguing isn't physical so there's nothing they can do. They have no powers in relation to noise either.
Perhaps it is an emotionally abusive relationship but that's not a criminal offense at the moment which is the only thing the guards can deal with.

Edit- maybe knowing their neighbors are complaining might make them keep it down though.

Big Bag of Chips

We went through a very bad patch last year. There were daily arguments. Daily. Raised voices and banging doors. Daily. We also have children. It lasted 3 or 4 months. Daily.

At no point was anyone under threat from anyone else. We were going through a very serious and very stressful time and neither of us had the ability to communicate reasonably with the other.

We are the most level headed people I know!!

I really don't know what the guards could have done for us had they been called by a neighbour. We were a couple, rowing. It happens. Everywhere. It doesn't automatically mean there is abuse or threats or anything else going on. It would have been a waste of police time and resources to come looking for us.

retro:electro

notjustsweet wrote: »

No they won't. Physical abuse is illegal and the guards can intervene, arguing isn't physical so there's nothing they can do. They have no powers in relation to noise either.
Perhaps it is an emotionally abusive relationship but that's not a criminal offense at the moment which is the only thing the guards can deal with.

Edit- maybe knowing their neighbors are complaining might make them keep it down though.

Ah sure no point reporting it so. Might as well wait til it escalates and one of them kicks the other one to a pulp before you bother reporting it. Because that's what domestic violence actually is, right? Wrong.

Having this verbal abuse on record is essential in case this verbal abuse escalates into physical violence. The guards will take a report and have it on file. They may not be able to stop it; but having it on file will be detrimental if it escalates. I can't believe you are suggesting not to bother.

GingerLily

anna080 wrote: »

So you think one person has to be dominant in order for it to be considered domestic abuse? They could both be abusive here. I'm not saying the op needs to be specific. He/she just needs to report an ongoing domestic situation in the house below him. You are mad if you think the Garda won't get involved, of course they will.

They'll get involved as far as they would with any old noise complaint and no further.
What can or should the guards do? Technically it's just noise at this point coming from both of them.

I came from a house with domestic violence, I am very aware of how serious a topic it is.

njs030

anna080 wrote: »

Ah sure no point reporting it so. Might as well wait til it escalates and one of them kicks the other one to a pulp before you bother reporting it.

Having this verbal abuse on record is essential in case this verbal abuse escalates into physical violence. The guards will take a report and have it on file. They may not be able to stop it; but having it on file will be detrimental if it escalates. I can't believe you are suggesting not to bother.

You're a tad over emotional about this. I didn't say not to bother at all. I explained the facts and then said reporting it would help the op because they would realise they are bothering the op.

Do you understand people have rows that don't end in physical violence though? There's absolutely no reason to suggest that is going to happen here. None.

GingerLily

anna080 wrote: »

Ah sure no point reporting it so. Might as well wait til it escalates and one of them kicks the other one to a pulp before you bother reporting it.

Having this verbal abuse on record is essential in case this verbal abuse escalates into physical violence. The guards will take a report and have it on file. They may not be able to stop it; but having it on file will be detrimental if it escalates. I can't believe you are suggesting not to bother.

Then you'll have a record of the victim who got kicked shouting at the abuser, how does that aid the victim?

Estrellita

anna080 wrote: »

The op said this is happening every single day. This needs to be reported. Your attitude along with some others on this thread is depressing.

Well I'm sorry you feel that way. I feel there is no need to cry abuse without any proof of it. It's rather silly actually.

retro:electro

GingerLily wrote: »

They'll get involved as far as they would with any old noise complaint and no further.
What can or should the guards do? Technically it's just noise at this point coming from both of them.

I came from a house with domestic violence, I am very aware of how serious a topic it is.

The noise complaint might be enough to make the stop, or would you prefer if they continued to scream blue murder at each other every day? These perspectives here are just exemplary of the age old attitude that "domestic violence is a private matter". Sad to see this hasn't changed.

retro:electro

notjustsweet wrote: »

You're a tad over emotional about this. I didn't say not to bother at all. I explained the facts and then said reporting it would help the op because they would realise they are bothering the op.

Do you understand people have rows that don't end in physical violence though? There's absolutely no reason to suggest that is going to happen here. None.

And you do realise that there doesn't have to be physical violence for it to be considered abuse, right?

Big Bag of Chips

anna080 wrote: »

"domestic violence is a private matter".

There is no evidence of domestic violence though.

Domestic disturbance, yes. But that's a different matter.

Riskymove

Estrellita wrote: »

Well I'm sorry you feel that way. I feel there is no need to cry abuse without any proof of it. It's rather silly actually.

I think the idea is that the ongoing loud rows should be reported not that "domestic abuse" be reported

The Guards can decide what is going on or the intervention may be enough to make them calm down

retro:electro

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

There is no evidence of domestic violence though.

Domestic disturbance, yes. But that's a different matter.

Domestic violence isn't always physical.

Estrellita

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

We went through a very bad patch last year. There were daily arguments. Daily. Raised voices and banging doors. Daily. We also have children. It lasted 3 or 4 months. Daily.

At no point was anyone under threat from anyone else. We were going through a very serious and very stressful time and neither of us had the ability to communicate reasonably with the other.

We are the most level headed people I know!!

I really don't know what the guards could have done for us had they been called by a neighbour. We were a couple, rowing. It happens. Everywhere. It doesn't automatically mean there is abuse or threats or anything else going on. It would have been a waste of police time and resources to come looking for us.

Frankly it would have been quite embarrassing for a couple already going through a tough time. Most of us hit a time like this, because life does come with its pressures.

The last thing you need is a neighbour adding one and one and making five out of it.

njs030

anna080 wrote: »

And you do realise that there doesn't have to be physical violence for it to be considered abuse, right?

I do. Do you realise arguing isn't abuse? Sometimes arguing is just arguing and a couple that are going through a bad patch or breaking up or incompatible.

retro:electro

notjustsweet wrote: »

I do. Do you realise arguing isn't abuse? Sometimes arguing is just arguing and a couple that are going through a bad patch or breaking up or incompatible.

Arguing and screaming at each other in a pattern that is perpetual and happening every single day is case specific of living in a domestically violent household. If there were kids involved would your attitude be different?

Big Bag of Chips

anna080 wrote: »

Domestic violence isn't always physical.

And a couple arguing, even regularly, isn't always domestic violence.