Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123610762#Comment_123610762

That is a load of rubbish. Nicotine is the addictive property, but it's not in itself harmful to health. Its the other ingredients in cigarettes which causes the harm. Like tar, and the burning of the paper.

"The other chemicals in vapes". Looking at the ingredients on my bottle of vape juice, it's very simple nicotine, flavour and polyglycerol. Ooooh fancy chemical word, polyglycerol is used in food as an emulsifier and its used in cosmetics too. People have been consuming glycerol for decades and it's not been linked to causing any harm.

"Vaping is not regulated". It is highly regulated, and there are warnings on the packaging in English and Irish.

BP_RS3813

Not to drag the thread off topic but nicotine is harmful, its been scientifically proven to be so - vapes are only considered 'less' harmful due to typically lower nicotine content plus no tar etc.

We frankly have not regulated them enough. Bringing the discussion back to alcohol - the type of regulation we pursued was the wrong type. I believe drinking could have been massively reduced if we pursued a different policy.

Consumption has been dropping steadily I am aware, not as fast as it should be however.

It is important to note that I personally don't mind people drinking alcohol. Its the culture around it that bothers me. At one point I realised drinking culture wasn't changing so I said feck it, may aswell support MUP. Less drinking=less drinking culture therefore I'm happy with it even though I know MUP was brought in and is still in place under false pretenses.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123613162#Comment_123613162

Vapes generally tend to have far higher levels of nicotine than cigarettes. Many of the disposable vapes can equate to anywhere from 20-60 cigarettes worth and generally last vapers a day or so.

It seems that you very do much mind people drinking alcohol as your statement "Consumption has been dropping steadily I am aware, not as fast as it should be however" proves.

MUP has little to no effect on drinking levels and this has been proven not only here but in Scotland as well. Supporting a policy that you know doesn't work that solely increases the price of alcohol further backs up the point that you do mind people drinking alcohol.

BP_RS3813

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614021#Comment_123614021

I support MUP because I dislike drinking culture not drinking itself. Less drinking means less drinking culture.

Until the culture around it changes then I will keep supporting and argueing for MUP. I wouldn't mind drinking increasing if the culture around it changed.

I am fully aware its a sham designed to help pubs.

The 'rounds' system if you can call it that - lets say 10 to a table and everyone gets a round. Thats 10 pints each - now if you are intending on drinking ten pints then sure its grand but not everyone will want 10, someone might only want 3 or 4 on the night.

Why not say listen lads, I'll get you back next time we are out? I do the same with my running friends at the post run coffee - its always I'll get you back next week (or whenever that next time is).

The call the non drinker a boring, miserable dry bast*rd needs to go, yes gary in the office doesn't drink - he focuses on his sport or health. No need to slate him every single time he refuses to go out. Even if he does go out just to make an appearance/be social - he will still get bombarded with 'oh just have one , come on - don't be a boring bast*ard all the time etc'.

Thirdly, why does all celebrations have to have drink. Why not do something different which does not include alcohol? - it seems like people use birthdays etc as an excuse to drink rather then celebrate the birthday itself.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614137#Comment_123614137

Jesus there's so much to unpack in this post.

Firstly I've never heard of a table of 10 doing rounds for a night, that's insane. If it was the instance of a large group 10+ and a round was ordered the obligation would to be get everyone back eventually it wouldn't ever have to be on the night in question. Active rounds works for 6 at most, also ive stood up many times and said "I'm not into rounds tonight", its fine to do, it happens all the time in my experience. I know several people like yourself into health, running, fitness, whatever and if we go out and they get asked what they are having and they ask for water, 7up etc or say "im not into rounds" its passed over without comment even once. If you have a problem standing up for yourself that's your own problem and not everyone else's like you are trying to make it.

The real problem you seem to have is with the people you go out with more than anything else, youve got a MASSIVE chip on your shoulder after some admittedly what sound like bad experiences and have decided to lump everyone who drinks alcohol in being exactly the same as the worst people you have encountered. It honestly sounds from your posts you need to grow up a bit and move on from whatever happened to you in the past.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614137#Comment_123614137

Ok so a lot of what you said is completely outdated to be honest.

If there's 10 lads out having pints together everyone won't be in a round, rare that people turn up all at exactly the same time. Usually people split off into groups of 3 or so and after the first 3 people usually go off by themseleves as people drink at different paces or have different drinks eg some move to spirits. No one would be given grief unless they skipped their round in these scenarios.

What you and your running group do is irrelevant to MUP.

The "boring b*astard" stuff is rarely occurring anymore, gone are the days of lying about being on antibiotics. Loads of my friends don't drink and no one tries to force them to when we go out. You can save that stereotype for the older generation.

Not all celebrations have to have drink but it sure makes them better. Who wants to go to a bbq and have cups of tea/coffee and water rather than a few bottles of beers with friends? No one is getting hammered just having some sociable beers.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123612028#Comment_123612028

ingesting them is one thing, but inhaling them is something else

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123612250#Comment_123612250

Of course nicotine is harmful, it raises blood pressure and substantially increases risk of heart attack.

It took them years just to ban under-18s from legally buying vapes. Then there's the whole wild west of buying online. We now have the nicotine pouch crap as well. The legislative response has been far too slow

Basically it's regulated if you, the user, are willing to be regulated…

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614137#Comment_123614137

I support MUP because I dislike drinking culture not drinking itself. Less drinking means less drinking culture.

Forgot to add this in my previous reply. We know that MUP does not decrease drinking so you are supporting something that isn't reducing drinking levels.

So why do you support something you know doesn't work and isn't doing what you want it to do?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614137#Comment_123614137

How will MUP change the culture of rounds in pubs?

It's a sham designed to help pubs as you acknowledge.

Makes no sense.

So how will MUP change the aspects drinking culture that bothers you…

Still you support it though can't actually explain why in any coherent way that doesn't contradict itself.

Rounds culture has existed for long time, it pre-dates the supermarket purchase of alcohol to drink at home which is what MUP is targeting in practice.

If you have an issue with Irish drinking culture, you should be opposed to MUP as it is another step away from a more Continental approach to alcohol as a regulation and culture level.

odyssey06

I've read academic arguments that Rounds culture here persisted after it died out elsewhere as an after effect of the Famine.

As Google AI summarises…

The Famine disrupted traditional marriage patterns, as land ownership became more concentrated in the hands of fewer individuals, leaving many young men unable to marry and establish families.

These unmarried men, often referred to as "bachelor boys," formed a distinct social group with their own norms and behaviors. 

For many bachelors, heavy drinking became a way to cope with the social and economic hardships they faced, as well as the lack of opportunities for marriage and family life. 

Drinking was sometimes seen as a way to demonstrate masculinity and tolerance for pain, reflecting the limited options available to them. 

In some cases, the community even tolerated or encouraged heavy drinking among bachelors as a form of release for their social and sexual frustrations. 

BP_RS3813

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614179#Comment_123614179

"Ok so a lot of what you said is completely outdated to be honest."

You may be right, I havn't gone out drinking in well over 2 years so that may very well be the case. I can't see it being completely gone but I'll take your word that it has gotten better.

I used the 'get you next time example' because it is much better then feeling obliged to do it on that very night which is what used to happen most of the time and the odd case may occur nowadays here and there. It may not be relevant now I understand that.

I still think drink and celebration are linked together too much, we'll agree to disagree on that one.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614216#Comment_123614216

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614261#Comment_123614261

"So why do you support something you know doesn't work and isn't doing what you want it to do?"

Out of spite.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614170#Comment_123614170

"The real problem you seem to have is with the people you go out with more than anything else, youve got a MASSIVE chip on your shoulder after some admittedly what sound like bad experiences and have decided to lump everyone who drinks alcohol in being exactly the same as the worst people you have encountered. It honestly sounds from your posts you need to grow up a bit and move on from whatever happened to you in the past."

That very well may be the case, but I'm reluctant to believe change has occured with regards to certain aspects of drinking culture and don't believe culture change happens as quickly as some posters have argued. Its why nowadays I don't drink at all and only 'go out' (exercise/get coffee - sometimes both) with friends who are equally obsessed with running as I am.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614911#Comment_123614911

Out of spite.

You've destroyed your own argument that you're not against people drinking.

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614911#Comment_123614911

Its why nowadays I don't drink at all and only 'go out' (exercise/get coffee - sometimes both) with friends who are equally obsessed with running as I am.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123614911#Comment_123614911

Very self absorbed answer especially the spite thing.

Il give you a common perception. Running clubs are for chasing women. I read they have high divorce rates from them.

See we can all make large assumptions based on next to nothing 🙃😉

BP_RS3813

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123615041#Comment_123615041

People do things out of spite after a while, not exclusive to me with drinking or anyone else with a different topic.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123615047#Comment_123615047

I know you are probably meaning that as a joke but in all seriousness thats the attitude against 'boring' individuals that make people like me hate drinking. Yes I don't like to stay up past 10, no I do not drink as it will affect my sports performance, I try my best to eat healthily and will put sports performance above everything else. I don't like loud parties and would much prefer an evening watching a movie while doing some foam roalling. Get called 'boring' or be told you 'don't party enough' enough times leads to some people becoming like me.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123615105#Comment_123615105

Mixed gender fun run clubs I would think the same to be honest. A proper club will seperate training groups by age and gender once you get to the U16 juvenile category and above. Masters (35+ will sometimes be mixed but imagine most of them have an OH already). Junior & Senior will be seperated by age and gender if done properly.

Point taken though - just to note people will double down on stereotyping if they have a preconceived negative notion of something and its proved to be right via a few experiences. This is literally how I came to think how I think regarding alcohol.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123615292#Comment_123615292

You've been adamant across multiple posts that you're not against people drinking until the veil eventually slipped and you admit you support an initiative that does not reduce alcohol consumption purely out of spite while ranting about drinkers.

You should have said that from the start instead of the pretence that you weren't against drinking when you very much are.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123615334#Comment_123615334

Also I never mentioned boring at all! Not sure why that lad started down that avenue.

Bizarre state of affairs to limit people he talks to.,Probably dropped people out of his circle of friends and then get to this level of spite and venom.

I'm sure the running club don't all have this attitude tbh.

As I always say. Life contains alot more than dedicating yourself to 1 thing only. And ultimately limiting yourself limits your experiences !

Leave the spite in the locker and try to be more understanding. Its not all run club and coffee. He'll probably cop on to that at some point. Same goes for alcohol, only alcoholism limits yourself to 1 pursuit.

Amazing really when you boil it down both sets of people addicted to something. 🤔🤔