Bridges in Bray?

Macha

Hi all,

We're looking to move to Bray but are a bit flabbergasted that there's only one bridge across the Dargle in all of Bray between the N11 and the DART lines. It means if you're travelling by bike or on foot, you can end up having to do some crazy around trips to get to places.

Does anyone know of any plans to build another one? Even for cyclists/pedestrians would be great.

ted1

Macha wrote: »

Hi all,

We're looking to move to Bray but are a bit flabbergasted that there's only one bridge across the Dargle in all of Bray between the N11 and the DART lines. It means if you're travelling by bike or on foot, you can end up having to do some crazy around trips to get to places.

Does anyone know of any plans to build another one? Even for cyclists/pedestrians would be great.

It's not that bad , it all depends on where you want to go.

Macha

ted1 wrote: »

It's not that bad , it all depends on where you want to go.

Yeah but if where you want to go is bad, it's bad.

For example, if you want to go from where the Upper and Lower Dargle Roads meet to the Educate Together primary school, what's a 20 minute walk from the other side of the river is a 40 minute walk on the other side. It's nuts.

murpho999

Macha wrote: »

Yeah but if where you want to go is bad, it's bad.

For example, if you want to go from where the Upper and Lower Dargle Roads meet to the Educate Together primary school, what's a 20 minute walk from the other side of the river is a 40 minute walk on the other side. It's nuts.

A really very strange observation and complaint.

The Dargle realy runs along side the town through parks and sparsely populated areas and only really cross the town at the Main Street/Castle Street/Dargle Road intersection and there you have the bridge.

Reasons to cross the river are few and far between in my opinion and the example you give is extreme and still accessible by going up N11 if driving or walking up Main Street if walking.

Macha

Why is it so strange? I don't want to have to go out of the town, onto a motorway to get to another part of the town and I certainly wouldn't want to be doing it during rush hour in the morning. I wouldn't call the Lower Dargle Road a 'sparsely populated area' and the example I've given is pretty close to the route I'd have to take every morning so it's not by any stretch an 'extreme' scenario.

The really strange thing is that every time I ask this question, people always provide a 'solution' that involves driving a long way, when the whole point of living in a town is that I shouldn't have to drive long distances to get to other parts of the town. If that didn't bother me, sure I should just live in the middle of a housing estate in the middle of nowhere. And actually, I'd rather not drive at all, I'd like a town that's designed also with pedestrians and cyclists in mind.

Strange, really??

fortwilliam

Can't wait until you come to live with us....

..Actually, I've just checked, we're full, sorry.

Mod: No more unwelcoming comments like this

Annasopra

I dont think there is any plans for a new one no. From a traffic perspective I think you're right because the traffic coming over that castle street bridge is crazy at times but I guess if you want less commute time to the school then move closer to it.

Alun

Another aspect is geography, that isn't immediately obvious just by looking at a 2D Google map.

When/if you're next in Bray take a drive or a walk up Herbert Road from Main Street for a km or so, which is the only candidate for where any potential river crossing would come out on the south side of the river. There's roughly a 30-35m elevation difference between the Dargle and the road, and the bank is quite steep in places. The Herbert Road is also not the widest of roads, and has a few really sharp bends along that section where it crosses Giltspur Brook.

That's not to say it couldn't be done, but if it were, Herbert Road would probably need some upgrading and even realignment, difficult considering the amount of residential development along it.

Macha

Good points, Alun.

I thought they had been planning a pedestrian crossing as part of the flood defence/river walk works, hence I was a bit disappointed to learn otherwise.

keano_afc

As Alun said, there's pretty much nowhere for another bridge to go.

Plastik

There is plans for another vehicle bridge isn't there, but closer to the sea?

Alun

Plastik wrote: »

There is plans for another vehicle bridge isn't there, but closer to the sea?

Not that I recall, but if there was, where would it go?

murpho999

Macha wrote: »

Why is it so strange? I don't want to have to go out of the town, onto a motorway to get to another part of the town and I certainly wouldn't want to be doing it during rush hour in the morning. I wouldn't call the Lower Dargle Road a 'sparsely populated area' and the example I've given is pretty close to the route I'd have to take every morning so it's not by any stretch an 'extreme' scenario.

The really strange thing is that every time I ask this question, people always provide a 'solution' that involves driving a long way, when the whole point of living in a town is that I shouldn't have to drive long distances to get to other parts of the town. If that didn't bother me, sure I should just live in the middle of a housing estate in the middle of nowhere. And actually, I'd rather not drive at all, I'd like a town that's designed also with pedestrians and cyclists in mind.

Strange, really??

Where the rivers runs is quite sparsely populated. Goes through wasteland on Upper Dargle and then People's Park on lower and down on to the unpopuated Ravenswell Roa. Other side it works way up to Enniserry, so where you want this bridge and what roads it would connect s beyond me.

loyatemu

looking at the satellite map there is a green line that runs all the way from Boghall Rd to the river - possible route for a future greenway? (apologies if this runs through anyone here's back garden :pac:)

Calibos

loyatemu wrote: »

looking at the satellite map there is a green line that runs all the way from Boghall Rd to the river - possible route for a future greenway? (apologies if this runs through anyone here's back garden :pac:)

A green line? Of Trees? From the Boghall??

Are you sure you aren't thinking of the Southern Cross Road.

What do you mean by greenway?

Anyway, the only possible place for a bridge that is not prevented by either elevation on the southern side or property on either side is here.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.206762,-6.1234501,163a,20y,150.61h,71.81t/data=!3m1!1e3

Don't think the residents of Glenwood would appreciate their quiet little cul de sac becoming a new route to the west side of the town and tbh, outside of Rushhour you'd still be quicker staying on the N11 and coming into Bray at the South exit.

BTW. Bray is one of the few towns in the Country to have been 3D scanned by Google (Dublin, Cork, Dundalk, Bray, Belfast, Derry, Athlone, Tralee and Kilkenny) Press and hold left mouse key to drag the map. Press and hold the CTRL and Left Mouse key to tilt and rotate the map.

Me, I don't need to do anything like that. I stand like a colosus over my home town of Bray using powers of teleportation to move around the town. I am Godzilla. I am King Kong. I am Google Earth VR Man!! All joking aside. I've spent hours exploring Bray in VR the last few days. Such a fantastic synergy of Technologies.

Alun

I think he means a cycle path type of greenway, following the stream that comes off of the Little Sugarloaf, which crosses the Boghall Rd. where the little gatehouse stands, and through the old grounds of Oldcourt House where Oldcourt Castle is, now private property.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.1870204,-6.1134054,157a,20y,41.72t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

loyatemu

Alun wrote: »

I think he means a cycle path type of greenway, following the stream that comes off of the Little Sugarloaf, which crosses the Boghall Rd. where the little gatehouse stands, and through the old grounds of Oldcourt House where Oldcourt Castle is, now private property.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.1870204,-6.1134054,157a,20y,41.72t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

yeah I'd meant to include a screenshot - what is that big house/estate at the 500m mark?:

cdeb

Would it be an old rail line?

Isn't the plan for the LUAS extension (if it ever happens...) to follow an old line out to Bray?

loyatemu

cdeb wrote: »

Would it be an old rail line?

Isn't the plan for the LUAS extension (if it ever happens...) to follow an old line out to Bray?

It's not an old line - think it might be a stream as per Alun's post above.

The proposed Luas is partially following the Harcourt St - Shankill line (as the existing green line mostly does) but diverts towards Little Bray and then down through the former golf course towards the Dart Station.

contrary_mary

The valley that stream runs through gets very steep as it nears the dargle - for example around Glenlucan. There is no flat land either side for a pathway.

loyatemu

It's quite clearly visible as a stream on Bing maps if you switch to the Birds Eye view - I'd never noticed it before. The house I enquired about above is Oldcourt House and Castle which has a fair bit of land attached. I wonder how long before that gets redeveloped.

contrary_mary

loyatemu wrote: »

It's quite clearly visible as a stream on Bing maps if you switch to the Birds Eye view - I'd never noticed it before.

That stream is actually used as a parish boundary between the Ballywaltrim (St. Fergals) and Putland Rd. (Queen of Peace) parishes from the sugarloaf to where it meets Killarney rd. When we were house-hunting a couple of years ago I knew exactly where it crossed each of the roads as I was considering school catchments!

Alun

Nowadays it's diverted underground for a lot of it's course until it meets Boghall Rd. and then pops out into the open by that gatehouse, although there's a branch that comes off it there that runs in the open along the front of the cottages on Boghall Rd. between Oldcourt Grove and Wurzburg Rd., that can only really be seen when on foot.

Alun

cdeb wrote: »

Isn't the plan for the LUAS extension (if it ever happens...) to follow an old line out to Bray?

That's the continuation of the old Harcourt Line which the Green Line already follows for a lot of it's course.

You can see it quite clearly on Google Earth by a line of trees from Cherrywood where it would, if ever built, have to cross the M11 south of the Loughlinstown Roundabout, through Shankill and come out at the northern end of Shanganagh Park. In days gone by the railway just joined what is now the Dart line just there.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.2363878,-6.1256078,2087m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

loyatemu

actually looking back at the preferred route for the Bray Luas (which is surprisingly hard to find now that the RPA's website is gone) it only follows the old railway line for a short distance then continues along the west of the M11 before splitting with one branch going to Fassaroe (where a big office park was once planned) and the other branch heading down Old Conna Avenue.

That plan is effectively abandoned now though, if they do ever extend it I'd imagine they'll have to go through the whole route planning process again.

Alun

Yes, although the route of the old line is intact to a greater or lesser degree, there are a few points where it's been built over, so it was a no go really. In reality the alignment should have been preserved, or even never closed in the first place

Calibos

loyatemu wrote: »

It's quite clearly visible as a stream on Bing maps if you switch to the Birds Eye view - I'd never noticed it before. The house I enquired about above is Oldcourt House and Castle which has a fair bit of land attached. I wonder how long before that gets redeveloped.

Nearly all the estates in every direction are parts of Oldcourt estate that have been sold and developed in the last few decades

Annasopra

Access into oldcourt castle/estate would be extremely difficult so I couldnt see it being redeveloped.

Calibos

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Access into oldcourt castle/estate would be extremely difficult so I couldnt see it being redeveloped....further

FYP

Annasopra

Calibos wrote: »

FYP

You've lost me there

Where would you get access from? It's locked in by Charnwood, Giltspur Brook, Giltspur Wood, The Sunbeam lands, Ryecroft, Glencourt

Calibos

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

You've lost me there

Where would you get access from? It's locked in by Charnwood, Giltspur Brook, Giltspur Wood, The Sunbeam lands, Ryecroft, Glencourt

I'm just posting out that the reason there is no longer access is due to the prior development of Oldcourt estate over the last few decades. ie. the aforementioned housing estates. Someone earlier said that someone should develop the Oldcourt house lands. Its not like they haven't thought about it. they've been selling off parcels of the old estate for development for decades. They've reached the end of that process now I imagine as A. I imagine they want to hold onto some grazing paddock areas for the horses and some woodland and the pond and B. Not much access left as you say.

Alun

I suppose some of the estates that currently border onto what remains of the estate could possibly be extended further inwards, as it were, without requiring further access points.

Annasopra

Alun wrote: »

I suppose some of the estates that currently border onto what remains of the estate could possibly be extended further inwards, as it were, without requiring further access points.

I really doubt there would be further development there to be honest.

tc20

slightly OT, but am I correct in saying that the Oldcourt Castle was used in some scenes for John Boormans film 'Excalibur'?

patrickbrophy18

Sorry to bump an old thread. However, I do think there is a case for better permeability between the Upper Dargle Road and the Herbert Road. I say that because both roads are well over a mile in length with only 2 links at both ends for motorised traffic (the N11 and the R761). Now, I am not saying new car bridges. However, I do think in time, a footbridge at roughly the halfway point would cut otherwise very lengthy circuitous walks significantly. Just my 2 cents.

zoobizoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122647992#Comment_122647992

A car bridge would be great there.

I live down the Dargle and it would take a lot of traffic from Castle St and the Lower Dargle Road while getting people to their destinations more quickly.