Access (or the lack of it) to broadband in Ireland.

political analyst

The following article was written by Brian O'Donohoe, the commercial director of broadband provider Imagine.

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/national-broadband-plan-will-fail-those-in-our-country-areas-35229984.html

An upcoming auction of the wireless "spectrum" - the available bandwidth that internet companies can use to provide advanced wireless services - could see mobile operators and larger telecoms companies with a vested interest in being subsidised to rollout fibre, snap up large sections of it, squeezing out wireless suppliers essential to the provision of rural broadband. If this happens, compounded by further delays to the National Broadband Plan, accessing high-speed internet could become even more difficult for thousands of homes and businesses, and those who rely on fixed wireless internet already may actually lose their existing connections. As we stand, thousands of homes and businesses dependent on existing fixed wireless connections are about to be put into limbo by the communications minister.
Over the past two years, we have advised the Government, the Communications Regulator and Minister for Communications Denis Naughten of the global shift to fixed wireless as a solution to deliver high-speed broadband to rural areas urging them, in the national interest, to safeguard part of the spectrum for fixed wireless, thereby assuring internet access for thousands of people into the future. To date, this has been ignored.

Why doesn't the Government reserve part of the wireless spectrum for small companies that currently provide a wireless internet service? Surely, squeezing them out would be an abuse of power.

Furthermore, why doesn't the Government use satellite transmission to increase access to broadband?

darkpagandeath

Who's going to pay for it ?

SEPT 23 1989

I presume it will be auctioned off for a fraction of what the taxpayer should be getting for it

political analyst

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Who's going to pay for it ?

Doesn't the Government own the spectrum? Surely, it could allocate some of the spectrum to small broadband providers so that the big mobile and internet operators cannot abuse the power that comes with their prominent positions in the market.

Turtyturd

Squeezing Imagine out would be doing a service. Shambles of a company.

Outlaw Pete

loading...

Renegade Mechanic

Broadband here is looking more and more like nuclear fusion; always just a few years away...

frozenfrozen

Haven't we already paid for fibre to every home in the country already. What happened was Eircom didn't reinvest any of the 50 euro per month for 25 years they were getting from everyone

Wireless is not the answer, it's too short term. But at the same time they shouldn't be selling off our spectrum so cheaply. Because we are not being sold cheap 3g/4g in return.

FanadMan

Well, for my broadband I have a choice of mobile (Three is the only one of any use) or a fixed wireless provider who have a terrible reputation. Until there is a proper rollout of fibre, I am left between a rock and a hard place.

Could go for satellite but the price is abortive.

KERSPLAT!

FanadMan wrote: »

Well, for my broadband I have a choice of mobile (Three is the only one of any use) or a fixed wireless provider who have a terrible reputation. Until there is a proper rollout of fibre, I am left between a rock and a hard place.

Could go for satellite but the price is abortive.

You won't get much of a wireless connection between a rock and a hard place

diomed

I use Imagine wireless and am happy with it. I don't download music or films.
Is Denis O'Brien one of the bidders in the auctioning off of the internet or whatever is on offer?

mzungu

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Who's going to pay for it ?

Mexico.

The_Captain

Commercial director of wireless internet company opposed to Government sponsored rollout of high speed cabled internet shocker

gramar

diomed wrote: »

I use Imagine wireless and am happy with it. I don't download music or films.
Is Denis O'Brien one of the bidders in the auctioning off of the internet or whatever is on offer?

I use Imagine too. I imagine that I have broadband.

Edups2.0

Lack? I have two providers one sending me 360mbps the other sending 80. I see no lack sir.

Edups2.0

In all seriousness though the amount of people on sub 10megs is a shambles. In 2016, no one should phone up a provider and be told

1. No supply to your house
2. You can get less than 10mbps*


*the former never happens they tell you up to 24mpbs and then you get a nasty shock when it's rubbish. They then proceed to waste 14 days of your time by then you're stuck in the contract because you're cooling off period sucks.

diomed

3.13Mbps download
0.51Mbps upload
I don't need faster

The Backwards Man

I use about 30GB watching the needle hit the limiter on speedtest.net on my tablet in the arsehole of nowhere, I'm easily amused.

legocrazy505

Don't even bother reading this article. It's a load of **** coming from someone with a vested interest in wireless broadband solutions. Crooked Independent. SAD.

In all seriousness, we should not take this article seriously. The only consistent solution to rural broadband is FTTH, wireless doesn't scale and doesn't provide the same consistency, other wireless broadband providers would tell you this but Imagine are so far up their arse they won't admit it.

The Independent basically allowed someone to use their paper to lobby the government for something that is not in the best interests of those it would serve. This isn't journalism, it's selling out.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

The Backwards Man

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

It's all about time management. It takes twice as long to watch . . er . . wildlife documentaries with the buffering, reducing productivity. I'd say the amount of man hours lost to stuttering wildebeest in rural Ireland would be a real eye opener

frozenfrozen

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I'm on 1mB down 54kB up, doing graphic design / video editing / 3d stuff

I have to turn down a lot of work because sneakernet is the only way I can deliver anything big.

I don't know what you think working from home means but there's a lot more to it than being able to check emails.

foxy farmer

The Backwards Man wrote: »

stuttering wildebeest

:):)

marno21

We have discussed this article at length in the Broadband forum, and it's a disgrace that it was allowed to be published.

It's an advertisement, full of absolute rubbish, written by one of the directors of a company with a poor track record for providing rural broadband, trying their best to sell their latest product which doesn't live up to its claims and isn't fit for purpose, and trying to derail the National Broadband Plan because they were dropped from the running to get the contract, because the technology they propose to use isn't good enough for what's needed

Wireless was tried for the National Broadband Scheme, and was apparently rolled out to all the areas of the country that didn't have broadband, and yet here we are, EIGHT YEARS LATER, still complaining about the lack of rural broadband after the previous contract was finished.

If we're going to do this, it has to be done right for once and for all. And that means FUTURE PROOFED fibre-to-the-home connections. Nothing less.

We have a discussion ongoing in the forum here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=259 both on Imagine's product and the National Broadband Plan. Please give it a read if you have time because articles like this lead to a lot of misinformation.

ItHurtsWhenIP

political analyst wrote: »

...
Furthermore, why doesn't the Government use satellite transmission to increase access to broadband?

I won't have that propaganda nonsense in my quote back to you ... utterly shocking and it was disgraceful for the indo to have allowed it to be published.

As @marno21 mentioned, we have this well and truly discussed on the Broadband forum, however to your point about Satellite. If you recall, the last* useless government plan, the National Broadband Scheme (NBS), this subsidised Three with rolling out their transmission network. Using 3G mobile was a bad solution as the coverage was never great in some really rural places in Ireland, but it was done and it's finished, so let's leave it in the past, where it belongs.

Satellite will give you full coverage of the country, YAY! However it is a waaaaaay more retrograde step than using 3G mobile, because (a) the latency will make anything like VPNs, video chat, etc. unusable (b) their data limits are laughable, unless you pay €€€€€ for a little bit more (c) in a rain shower (what do we get a lot of in this country) the signal quality will fall off a cliff and speeds will drop to nothing. BTW - I'm a former satellite broadband user. Never again.

So, please do not suggest Satellite is a suitable solution to our rural broadband needs.

*I refuse to acknowledge the completely impotent Rural Broadband Scheme, as that did absolutely nothing for everybody.

pilly

ItHurtsWhenIP wrote: »

I won't have that propaganda nonsense in my quote back to you ... utterly shocking and it was disgraceful for the indo to have allowed it to be published.

As @marno21 mentioned, we have this well and truly discussed on the Broadband forum, however to your point about Satellite. If you recall, the last* useless government plan, the National Broadband Scheme (NBS), this subsidised Three with rolling out their transmission network. Using 3G mobile was a bad solution as the coverage was never great in some really rural places in Ireland, but it was done and it's finished, so let's leave it in the past, where it belongs.

Satellite will give you full coverage of the country, YAY! However it is a waaaaaay more retrograde step than using 3G mobile, because (a) the latency will make anything like VPNs, video chat, etc. unusable (b) their data limits are laughable, unless you pay €€€€€ for a little bit more (c) in a rain shower (what do we get a lot of in this country) the signal quality will fall off a cliff and speeds will drop to nothing. BTW - I'm a former satellite broadband user. Never again.

So, please do not suggest Satellite is a suitable solution to our rural broadband needs.

*I refuse to acknowledge the completely impotent Rural Broadband Scheme, as that did absolutely nothing for everybody.

So, genuine question, in short, without half an hour of technical language (I'm a bit dumb), what is the answer?

morgana

Turtyturd wrote: »

Squeezing Imagine out would be doing a service. Shambles of a company.

Regardless of what you may think of Imagine, they are providing decent BB to a lot of people. I would be devastated if they had to withdraw the service - or any fixed wireless BB for that matter as I would presume any other WISP would be in the same position. FTTH might be the holy grail but until or even IF it ever materialises those WISPs are the only option I and many other rural dwellers have for at least half (in my case very decent) BB.

Edups2.0

pilly wrote: »

So, genuine question, in short, without half an hour of technical language (I'm a bit dumb), what is the answer?

A fibre connection leading from the cabinet to the home. The only answer is

1. Eir 1GB fibre to the home
2. SIRO

Copper wire is useless in Rural Ireland as houses can stretch for miles and miles and once you pass a KM or so, the signal is too weak to carry anything past 24mbps and go any farther on copper and you may as well not bother. Most people are wired to telephone exchanges miles away from their home in rural areas and therefore copper is worth a ****e. Without fibre cables ran to the house (obviously the rest can be copper once you get it that far) you're at nothing. But eir seem very disinterested in doing that. They promised so many places 100mbps fibre but abandoned them to compete with SIRO.

pilly

Edups2.0 wrote: »

A fibre connection leading from the cabinet to the home. The only answer is

1. Eir 1GB fibre to the home
2. SIRO

Copper wire is useless in Rural Ireland as houses can stretch for miles and miles and once you pass a KM or so, the signal is too weak to carry anything past 24mbps and go any farther on copper and you may as well not bother. Most people are wired to telephone exchanges miles away from their home in rural areas and therefore copper is worth a ****e. Without fibre cables ran to the house (obviously the rest can be copper once you get it that far) you're at nothing. But eir seem very disinterested in doing that. They promised so many places 100mbps fibre but abandoned them to compete with SIRO.

Okay, I understand the cable bit. Don't know what SIRO is. But if cable is the only option I kind of understand why it hasn't been rolled out so. There are so many one off houses around Ireland. Should the government really have to pay for cable to go to these houses? I don't think so. It's a choice you make to live in one.

Edups2.0

morgana wrote: »

Regardless of what you may think of Imagine, they are providing decent BB to a lot of people. I would be devastated if they had to withdraw the service - or any fixed wireless BB for that matter as I would presume any other WISP would be in the same position. FTTH might be the holy grail but until or even IF it ever materialises those WISPs are the only option I and many other rural dwellers have for at least half (in my case very decent) BB.

Most people with Imagine spend their time imagining what proper broadband is like. I had them for a short time in Wexford TOWN and I couldn't even get the 10mbps they promised with a full signal.

Edups2.0

pilly wrote: »

Okay, I understand the cable bit. Don't know what SIRO is. But if cable is the only option I kind of understand why it hasn't been rolled out so. There are so many one off houses around Ireland. Should the government really have to pay for cable to go to these houses? I don't think so. It's a choice you make to live in one.

Yes they should. I think attitudes like that are disgusting as well and the very reason we have this problem. Not everyone is happy to pack up and leave the house they may have lived in for donkeys years just to get some broadband.

wexfordman2

political analyst wrote: »

The following article was written by Brian O'Donohoe, the commercial director of broadband provider Imagine.

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/national-broadband-plan-will-fail-those-in-our-country-areas-35229984.html



Why doesn't the Government reserve part of the wireless spectrum for small companies that currently provide a wireless internet service? Surely, squeezing them out would be an abuse of power.

Furthermore, why doesn't the Government use satellite transmission to increase access to broadband?

I would suggest that people take that article with the scepticism it deserves. Wireless has and continues to fail to deliver decent future proof broadband, and this will not change. There are vested interests here, consider the very article above, who it was written by, and also have a think why unusually, the above article did not allow comments to it, to question/refute the claims.

Ireland is not Australia for one thing.

i read that article a few days ago, and to be frank, I was horrified, it appeared to me as if it was more of an advertisement than anything else.

pilly

Edups2.0 wrote: »

Yes they should. I think attitudes like that are disgusting as well and the very reason we have this problem. Not everyone is happy to pack up and leave the house they may have lived in for donkeys years just to get some broadband.

They don't have to move, they just have to live without broadband! Disgusting? Really? Such an over-reaction. Since when has it been a human rights issue to have broadband?

wexfordman2

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Many moons ago, I worked on a project where a 45mb radio link was installed for an operator. Whenn the link was being proposed first, the response was much like yours...why the hell would we need 45mb (and this was a trunk connection, not a dedicated connection).

morgana

Edups2.0 wrote: »

Most people with Imagine spend their time imagining what proper broadband is like. I had them for a short time in Wexford TOWN and I couldn't even get the 10mbps they promised with a full signal.

I would presume you are talking about a different Imagine product (Wimax or something similar), I am on Imagine LTE which is a fairly new product with much higher speeds (my average if 60+ Mbps off peak and 50+ peak). I have no opinion re WImax but am happy enough with the LTE product. Sure its not ideal but its a far cry from what I had before.

Edups2.0

pilly wrote: »

They don't have to move, they just have to live without broadband! Disgusting? Really? Such an over-reaction. Since when has it been a human rights issue to have broadband?

Why shouldn't rural areas have access to broadband like the rest the country? Ah get a grip if you had no broadband service you'd be all up about it no doubt, very easy to say there's no need when you're using it right now to complain about people who want it. I mean, god forbid they might need to use the internet for work, get a grip.

pilly

Edups2.0 wrote: »

Why shouldn't rural areas have access to broadband like the rest the country? Ah get a grip if you had no broadband service you'd be all up about it no doubt, very easy to say there's no need when you're using it right now to complain about people who want it. I mean, god forbid they might need to use the internet for work, get a grip.

I don't have broadband at home, I have it in work for work purposes alright but don't have it at home and manage to survive.

Gonzo

pilly wrote: »

I don't have broadband at home, I have it in work for work purposes alright but don't have it at home and manage to survive.

up to a year or two ago fast internet was a luxury mainly in larges and cities, required for business, gamers and people who like to download or watch alot of films.

In the past 1-2 years there has been a huge change in that it's becoming a requirement just to pay the bills, book a holiday, bank, study, look for a job and lots of other stuff.

In the next year or two many companies will stop sending out paper based bills, it's fast becoming an expectation that everyone has speeds of over 50 megs when the reality is close to 40% of the population of this country barely has the speed to open a google search page.

pilly

Gonzo wrote: »

up to a year or two ago fast internet was a luxury mainly in larges and cities, required for business, gamers and people who like to download or watch alot of films.

In the past 1-2 years there has been a huge change in that it's becoming a requirement just to pay the bills, book a holiday, bank, study, look for a job and lots of other stuff.

In the next year or two many companies will stop sending out paper based bills, it's fast becoming an expectation that everyone has speeds of over 50 megs when the reality is close to 40% of the population of this country barely has the speed to open a google search page.

I'm not arguing that it's not needed more and more today than ever. What I'm arguing is that it's not a basic human need. I don't have it at home and have managed even whilst I wasn't working. I went to the library to look for jobs, book stuff and print stuff.

There are people who don't have so much as a smart phone and they manage their day to living also. It is not a matter of survival is what I'm saying. Companies like to say that they will be paperless in so many years but in reality I think that's further away than we all think. We've been saying it probably since the 90s.

If a company wants to get paid and the customer doesn't have internet then they'll send a bill.

It would be lovely for everyone in the country to have broadband, again all I'm saying is it's not a matter of life and death.

maudgonner

pilly wrote: »

I don't have broadband at home, I have it in work for work purposes alright but don't have it at home and manage to survive.

And what about businesses in areas that don't have access to broadband? A large section of our economy is based on agribusiness. Tourism, of which rural tourism is a major component, is also a major contributor. Do you expect these businesses to struggle on without access to decent internet speeds?

I guess we should just move everything to the cities, yeah?

murpho999

pilly wrote: »

I don't have broadband at home, I have it in work for work purposes alright but don't have it at home and manage to survive.

So was that post for work purposes then?;)

pilly

maudgonner wrote: »

And what about businesses in areas that don't have access to broadband? A large section of our economy is based on agribusiness. Tourism, of which rural tourism is a major component, is also a major contributor. Do you expect these businesses to struggle on without access to decent internet speeds?

I guess we should just move everything to the cities, yeah?

I don't live in a city, don't understand why people get all het up about these things. It's only my opinion. I've already stated I don't have broadband at home and manage quite well. It's not a human right is all I'm saying.

pilly

murpho999 wrote: »

So was that post for work purposes then?;)

Totally. :D

maudgonner

pilly wrote: »

I don't live in a city, don't understand why people get all het up about these things. It's only my opinion. I've already stated I don't have broadband at home and manage quite well. It's not a human right is all I'm saying.

That's my point - it's not just about having broadband at home. For many people it's also about having broadband at work. Not all workplaces are in cities or towns. There's plenty of businesses (including hotels, factories, shops and offices) in areas that have been completely neglected by internet providers. And there's the potential to further develop the rural economy, as well as letting more people work from home, if a decent standard of broadband is provided.

No, it's not a human right. But it is increasingly important economically, as well as personally, for people to have a decent standard of internet service.

Permabear

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maudgonner

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Trading and fund management, regardless of how big the fund (but nice dick-waving there), doesn't tend to involve the transfer of large amounts of data.

I'm frequently in the same boat as frozenfrozen, and have to transfer large video files. It's impossible to do from home, which means I have to do physical transfers. It's a bit mortifying to have to tell clients that I'll send a hard drive to them by courier instead of drop-boxing it.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

KERSPLAT!

So what you're saying is, you've a small díck in the grand scheme of things?

maudgonner

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

So what you're saying is, you've a small díck in the grand scheme of things?

But still feels compelled to mention it, in the course of conversations?

By the way, my video files are huge. And I wanted all of you to know that.

Huge.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ItHurtsWhenIP

pilly wrote: »

They don't have to move, they just have to live without broadband! Disgusting? Really? Such an over-reaction. Since when has it been a human rights issue to have broadband?

pilly wrote: »

I don't live in a city, don't understand why people get all het up about these things. It's only my opinion. I've already stated I don't have broadband at home and manage quite well. It's not a human right is all I'm saying.

Those statements may not be correct for much longer.
https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/national-broadband-plan-right-ireland

Naughten said he and his department are watching closely developments in the EU, including a new draft directive on infrastructure that will ensure that all buildings in Europe will have fibre ducting.
....
“We want to ensure people have access to broadband as a right. Having a USO is critical, just like electricity, broadband should be a right and I want it as an enforceable right.

Finland has had it as a Human Right since 2010: :eek:
http://www.bbc.com/news/10461048

The United Nations even tried something this year, but they're a toothless non-entity, so I didn't even bother reading about it. :rolleyes: