Conservation Ranger

Precious flower

Hi guys, not sure if this is the right place to post but I'm inquiring about the conservation ranger job up on PublicJobs? I'd be extremely interested in this job as I've always been crazy about wildlife, national geographic etc and learning as much as I can about wildlife.

Now the essential criteria noted for the job is a good level of education, and general fitness and administration skills. Now, the desirable criteria is experience in this area and a relevant degree. I don't have a relevant degree or experience but I am interested in this type of work.

I'm just wondering is it worth applying or is it the case that when they say desirable they really mean that they are unlikely to take you on if you don't have a background or experience in that area?

Thanks

cd07

I equally like you would love a job like that. to be honest the actual job has probably been promised to an in-house employee. I have experience and relevant education and have always applied for these kind of jobs only to subsequently find out an employee of the same employer has been chosen. Only advertised for legal reasons i believe

Precious flower

cd07 wrote: »

I equally like you would love a job like that. to be honest the actual job has probably been promised to an in-house employee. I have experience and relevant education and have always applied for these kind of jobs only to subsequently find out an employee of the same employer has been chosen. Only advertised for legal reasons i believe

You know, I figured as much. As far as I know they have to advertise it even if someone else has already pretty much gotten it. It's pretty frustrating, especially for you I'd imagine.

cd07

I know but thats Ireland for ya...

Velvet shank

Precious flower wrote: »

You know, I figured as much. As far as I know they have to advertise it even if someone else has already pretty much gotten it. It's pretty frustrating, especially for you I'd imagine.

I wouldn't be dissuaded from applying by speculation like this if I were you - as far as I am aware, a number of the ranger posts have been vacant for some time. It may be that they are getting around to filling some or all of them again

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Without getting into specifics, these jobs are open competition and worth applying for if that's what you want to do. The speculation here, to be quite frank, is just that speculation.

magicbastarder

hasn't the ranger count been at a low point for a while now? i heard there's only two rangers for the whole county of wicklow at the moment - people better informed than me might know if there's truth in that.

whyulittle

Wrapped up in the "Heritage" Bill trying to be passed at the minute...

A further serious concern has emerged in recent days, one on which there was no consultation with NPWS staff. The Heritage Bill 2016 proposes to repeal a paragraph of the Wildlife Act which provides protection from assault, to an authorised person or a member of the Garda Síochána exercising any power or function conferred on the authorised person or member by or under the Wildlife Acts, 1976 and 2000. The section provides protection and a deterrent against assault to NPWS rangers who are often working on their own in isolated areas of the country and confronting criminals. The proposed removal of the section has been expressed by members of the rangers’ union as an issue of grave concern. It suggests a serious lack of support of the Department of Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, for NPWS rangers in their capacity to exercise their powers when necessary.

http://www.antaisce.org/articles/credibility-of-the-heritage-bill-called-further-into-question

Alun

That looks like a pretty odd thing to do, but what actual protection did the paragraph offer? Would repealing it mean that someone assaulting a ranger in the future would get a lighter sentence or something? If so, that's not really much practical help in the field if confronted by an angry poacher or whatever.

Precious flower

Would they be more likely to hire men for these positions too?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Precious flower wrote: »

Would they be more likely to hire men for these positions too?

No. Equal opportunity position and there are/were female officers.

dodderangler

By the looks of the wages it's a lot of work for little money with very little gains. Same wages for a long time. Only benefits are a retirement fund and after ten years a wage increase. I've applied anyway.

Precious flower

Lack of a driving licence put me out of the race. Oh well

dodderangler

Precious flower wrote: »

Lack of a driving licence put me out of the race. Oh well

Afaik the reason for that is because you will be required to drive from time to time in their jeeps and may end up taking it home aswell. So to cover insurance you need a full licence.

BUACHAILL

Everyone else get the mail requesting supplementary application due to the high volumes of applications ?

The link won't open for me to get into it. I know my flash is up to date as opened first application.

Anyone else having same issue ?

OpenYourEyes

BUACHAILL wrote: »

Everyone else get the mail requesting supplementary application due to the high volumes of applications ?

The link won't open for me to get into it. I know my flash is up to date as opened first application.

Anyone else having same issue ?

Rather than opening it in the browser, just download the pdf and open it from your computer instead - should work!

BUACHAILL

That did the trick. Thanks

BUACHAILL

Anybody got further feedback since the second set of questions ?

Capercaillie

BUACHAILL wrote: »

Anybody got further feedback since the second set of questions ?

how many jobs are there?

BUACHAILL

Capercaillie wrote: »

how many jobs are there?

I have no idea they never stated how many.

JKerova1

Any further feedback on this??

weadick

I think if this thread was moved to Work and Jobs it might get a bit more attention?

yoppy

weadick wrote: »

I think if this thread was moved to Work and Jobs it might get a bit more attention?

Thread there before this one.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057669563&page=2

OpenYourEyes

weadick wrote: »

I think if this thread was moved to Work and Jobs it might get a bit more attention?

There's a thread there and in the Hunting forum. Given that it's a job dealing with conservation issues I think it's relevant to have a thread here (as well as in the other forums).

CJmasgrande

OpenYourEyes wrote:

There's a thread there and in the Hunting forum. Given that it's a job dealing with conservation issues I think it's relevant to have a thread here (as well as in the other forums).

Absolutely, I was banned from the hunting forum two years ago just for debating the legalities of some of the members methods of hunting.

Joe222

Hi

Can anyone actually tell me what is involved in the daily work of a ranger?

Are you doing much manual work or are you just overseeing things?

How much paperwork on a weekly basis?

Would you have much driving to do?

I see from other threads that you are rostered 24/7. Surely you are given a shift allowance to work those hours as it is a public service job afterall?

Thanks

OpenYourEyes

Joe222 wrote: »

Hi

Can anyone actually tell me what is involved in the daily work of a ranger?

Are you doing much manual work or are you just overseeing things?

How much paperwork on a weekly basis?

Would you have much driving to do?

I see from other threads that you are rostered 24/7. Surely you are given a shift allowance to work those hours as it is a public service job afterall?

Thanks

I think over the course of a year it can be quite varied tbh, but there certainly would be a good deal of paperwork on a weekly basis for sure.

Driving too is likely to be a regular feature to each end of your area, and sometimes you can be based in an office that isn't in your area (though it's likely to be quite near to one end of it). I'm not sure what you mean about manual work, but there would be a lot of outdoor work, and depending on where your area is it could be quite demanding.

Joe222

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

I think over the course of a year it can be quite varied tbh, but there certainly would be a good deal of paperwork on a weekly basis for sure.

Driving too is likely to be a regular feature to each end of your area, and sometimes you can be based in an office that isn't in your area (though it's likely to be quite near to one end of it). I'm not sure what you mean about manual work, but there would be a lot of outdoor work, and depending on where your area is it could be quite demanding.

Ok thanks.

By manual I mean physical work like digging drains with shovels, lifting heavy items from place to place, climbing trees, using chainsaws, etc.

Or are you just observing, reporting and assessing a lot?

There were no real job specifications and there seems to be very little detail online. It makes it difficult for one to fully understand the duties of the job and whether it would suit an applicant.

OpenYourEyes

Joe222 wrote: »

Ok thanks.

By manual I mean physical work like digging drains with shovels, lifting heavy items from place to place, climbing trees, using chainsaws, etc.

Or are you just observing, reporting and assessing a lot?

There were no real job specifications and there seems to be very little detail online. It makes it difficult for one to fully understand the duties of the job and whether it would suit an applicant.

To the best of my knowledge there would be a lot more observing/reporting/assessing than the physical work you've described.

stevespring

800 people applied for the job.

Only 600 people responded to the request for further information.

From what I hear there will be 6 jobs going this year.

No idea when they are going to announce interviews, but you would imagine it would be soon.

Hope this helps.

JKerova1

stevespring wrote: »

800 people applied for the job.

Only 600 people responded to the request for further information.

From what I hear there will be 6 jobs going this year.

No idea when they are going to announce interviews, but you would imagine it would be soon.

Hope this helps.

Thanks

Joe222

Got a rejection message on this job offer. I'm qualified to masters' level with very good grades so there must be a very high standard.

I wonder are many being called to interviews.

Pay was very poor in fairness.

cbsam74

I didn't get called myself and I have both relevant Wildlife and Conservation Management and Forestry qualifications and I worked in this field in the private sector. I think the jobs were gone before they were even advertised.

dodderangler

cbsam74 wrote: »

I didn't get called myself and I have both relevant Wildlife and Conservation Management and Forestry qualifications and I worked in this field in the private sector. I think the jobs were gone before they were even advertised.

Gone to friends and family members.

OpenYourEyes

Mod Note:
Given that 800 supposedly applied, with 600 filling in the subsequent application form, and since NPWS haven't hired new rangers in 10-15 years (I think?) and there are apparently only a small number of positions to be filled, there was always going to be very very tight competition.

Please feel free to discuss the jobs, the application process etc, but no more baseless accusations about friends and family members being those chosen. If you have any strong feelings that way then I suggest you contact the hiring company directly.

magicbastarder

yep, pick an applicant at random and they'd have had a 1% chance of succeeding, based on an earlier claim that there were only six positions to be filled this year.

Del.Monte

At least you got the chance to apply for a conservation job in Ireland! When I left school it was what I was interested in but the only thing available was planting Christmas trees with the so-called Forestry & Wildlife Service.

stevespring

Interviews over now. How did people get on? By all accounts a high caliber of candidate was interviewed.

Joe222

stevespring wrote: »

Interviews over now. How did people get on? By all accounts a high caliber of candidate was interviewed.

Did anyone hear anything about these jobs?

stevespring

All quiet on the western front.

They have to get their ducks in a row first, you would imagine it would by quick but with the snails pace the process has moved so far, I wouldn't bet on it.

Up to a 100 were interviewed so quite a lot of applicants to go through.

Latest info is that there will be 6-8 hired this year.

stevespring

Results from interview process out yesterday.

According to the list, there are 5 jobs going at the moment. There were rumours that there would be a couple more but it doesnt seem to be the case.

Very very stiff competition.

stevespring

Have done a bit more digging on who were the successful candidates at interview.

As it turns out people who were wary of the process were half right. Positions high in the panel have not gone to friends and family but they have gone to people who are working or have worked in the NPWS already.

On the one had you can say that they have done their time and deserve the role, on the other hand, it is definitely the case that the people with the best experience will are not as high in the panel as they should be.

I honestly thought that the process would be above board but they have definitely looked after their colleagues first. They are probably qualified for the role but I know in a couple of cases at least, they are not the most qualified. Shame.

Rosahane

stevespring wrote: »

Have done a bit more digging on who were the successful candidates at interview.

As it turns out people who were wary of the process were half right.. Positions high in the panel have not gone to friends and family but they have gone to people who are working or have worked in the NPWS already.

On the one had you can say that they have done the time and deserve the role on the other hand it is definitely the case that the people with the best experience will not be as high in the panel as they should be.

I honestly thought that the process would be above board but they have definitely looked after their colleagues first. They are probably qualified for the role but I know in a couple of cases at least, they are not the most qualified. Shame.

As an aside.
Back in the dim and distant past the Civil Service Commission were responsible for the recruitment of Civil Servants. They were set up by the first Cumann na nGaedheal government and successfully and impartially carried out their duties until they were abolished in 2004. They were responsible for the fact that people other than Fianna Fail supporters got government jobs in the first instance. Of course, subsequent promotion was, in many instances, influenced by political favouritism.

(Edit) Just to be clear they were responsible for the recruitment process pretty much in it's totality. Entrance exams, interviews, competence tests etc. They produced a ranked panel of candidates and passed this list back to the relevant dept.

OpenYourEyes

stevespring wrote: »

Have done a bit more digging on who were the successful candidates at interview.

As it turns out people who were wary of the process were half right. Positions high in the panel have not gone to friends and family but they have gone to people who are working or have worked in the NPWS already.

On the one had you can say that they have done their time and deserve the role, on the other hand, it is definitely the case that the people with the best experience will are not as high in the panel as they should be.

I honestly thought that the process would be above board but they have definitely looked after their colleagues first. They are probably qualified for the role but I know in a couple of cases at least, they are not the most qualified. Shame.

I know a small number of people who applied for the role, with a variety of both general experience and experience working with/for NPWS. I can say with confidence that there is no correlation between the people who have done the most work for NPWS and those who ranked highest or even got through the various recruitment stages.

stevespring

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

I know a small number of people who applied for the role, with a variety of both general experience and experience working with/for NPWS. I can say with confidence that there is no correlation between the people who have done the most work for NPWS and those who ranked highest or even got through the various recruitment stages.

Fair enough, thats not what ive seen and heard. My sources/contacts have been proven to be correct so far, ive no reason to doubt them or the people ive talked to.

OpenYourEyes

stevespring wrote: »

Fair enough, thats not what ive seen and heard. My sources/contacts have been proven to be correct so far, ive no reason to doubt them or the people ive talked to.

Yeah that's fair enough too, but I'm talking about people I've known for years, I know their CVs and experience, and I know where they ranked. I also know that the rankings etc aren't common knowledge within the organisation so there's a very limited number of people with first hand knowledge of the results.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

stevespring wrote: »

Fair enough, thats not what ive seen and heard. My sources/contacts have been proven to be correct so far, ive no reason to doubt them or the people ive talked to.

Sorry but unless your sources were directly involved in the selection process and therefore also picked the successful candidates, they would not be privy to the relevant information.

stevespring

Just a bit of an update. I know of a few people who have been offered roles, current staff members of NPWS, former staff members of NPWS and contractors with NPWS. I know more about their current/former roles with NPWS but I will not divulge anymore info.

I know the CV of one of those people very well. That person hasnt got the experience of people I know further down the panel. One of the people seems to be doing a bit of a career jump.

I suppose its all about doing your time.

OpenYourEyes

stevespring wrote: »

I know the CV of one of those people very well. That person hasnt got the experience of people I know further down the panel.

What type of experience do you mean? Experience doing bird surveys? Experience doing mammal surveys? Experience doing plant surveys? Experience dealing with people? Experience working as part of a team? Experience working by themselves? Experience dealing with planning applications? Experience writing reports? Experience making management recommendations for protected areas? Experience dealing with the Wildlife Acts and EU Nature directives? And will the more experienced people have sold themselves very well in the two application stages as well as the interview stage?

At the end of the day 900 people applied and there were 6 spots at the end of it. That isn't to say that there were only 6 people suitable for the job - there was probably 60+ people suitable for the job that applied. The whole process could be completely re-done and it's likely that a different 6 people would have topped the list, given the numbers and variables involved.

stevespring

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

What type of experience do you mean? Experience doing bird surveys? Experience doing mammal surveys? Experience doing plant surveys? Experience dealing with people? Experience working as part of a team? Experience working by themselves? Experience dealing with planning applications? Experience writing reports? Experience making management recommendations for protected areas? Experience dealing with the Wildlife Acts and EU Nature directives? And will the more experienced people have sold themselves very well in the two application stages as well as the interview stage?

At the end of the day 900 people applied and there were 6 spots at the end of it. That isn't to say that there were only 6 people suitable for the job - there was probably 60+ people suitable for the job that applied. The whole process could be completely re-done and it's likely that a different 6 people would have topped the list, given the numbers and variables involved.

I want to be very careful of what I say as I don't want to divulge too much information on the people who were successful. They went into the process fairly and did their best like everybody else.

I don't know all the successful applicants but of the successful applicants I do know, every single one of them is or has worked for npws. I find that strange.

I know people who have dedicated their careers to make themselves the perfect candidates for these jobs and have relevant experience in all of the categories you mentioned, not just one or two caetgories but every single one of them.

I can only speak of the candidate whose cv I know very well, I know a lot of candidates that have more impressive CVS and more relevant experience. What they didn't have is experience working with npws. Going on CVS alone, while this person has a good cv, they were not the best candidate for the job. Something tipped the balance for them, and maybe for the other npws staff members too. Maybe they all give very good interviews or maybe they went in to the interview with an advantage.

OpenYourEyes

stevespring wrote: »

I want to be very careful of what I say as I don't want to divulge too much information on the people who were successful. They went into the process fairly and did their best like everybody else.

I don't know all the successful applicants but of the successful applicants I do know, every single one of them is or has worked for npws. I find that strange.

I know people who have dedicated their careers to make themselves the perfect candidates for these jobs and have relevant experience in all of the categories you mentioned, not just one or two caetgories but every single one of them.

I can only speak of the candidate whose cv I know very well, I know a lot of candidates that have more impressive CVS and more relevant experience. What they didn't have is experience working with npws. Going on CVS alone, while this person has a good cv, they were not the best candidate for the job. Something tipped the balance for them, and maybe for the other npws staff members too. Maybe they all give very good interviews or maybe they went in to the interview with an advantage.

I know people who have or are currently working for NPWS that a) didnt progress past the early stages of the application process, b) didn't progress past the later stages of the application process, c) didn't get a particularly high ranking after the interview process, and d) got offered a position but not in or near an area they would consider moving to. Maybe your problem is that you're jumping to conclusions based on a very very small sample size?

Also, Ireland being the small place it is, it's hard not to have had some level of interaction with NPWS over the course of a career - either working alongside NPWS staff or working on a project that is NPWS-funded, if not directly employed on a contract basis in an education, general operative, surveying role etc. It isn't that there's a privileged few who are 'in' with NPWS. Also only two NPWS staff interviewed applicants, so for there to be some favoritism the applicants would have to have been lucky enough to know that person interviewing them - the odds of which are very very small. The Public Jobs crowd went through the CVs and dealt with the recruitment from start to finish, and at the only stage where an NPWS person had any input there was a civil servant from a completely seperate department there as a counter-weight to ensure any sort of favoritism could be counter-balanced.

From the very start there have been people suggesting there would be favoritism, and people projecting their own views of what a ranger should be onto the role. I know people who were disappointed to miss out this time despite being perfect for the role, but they don't feel it was because of favoritism or 'jobs for the boys' or anything like that.