Teacher being cruel?

Wall1257

There is a boy in my child's class who is particularly badly behaved. He purposefully physically hurts other children and is quite problematic. He has been like this since he started school, he is now 7 years old.

However, today in class his teacher asked the whole cclass if anybody likes him. Nobody put their hands up. She then asked the boy how he felt about that and he said that he is sad that nobody likes him. My daughter thinks that the teacher did that so that the boy could understand that if he hits people he won't have any friends.

I am very concerned about the teacher's method. Maybe it's a last resort because they have tried everything else with him. What do you think? I need opinions because I don't know if I should tell his Mother what happened. I have spoken to her a couple of times and I am almost positive that she will complain to the school. But is it the shock the boy needs to improve his behaviour?

bbbaldy

Wall1257 wrote:

However, today in class his teacher asked the whole cclass if anybody likes him. Nobody put their hands up. She then asked the boy how he felt about that and he said that he is sad that nobody likes him. My daughter thinks that the teacher did that so that the boy could understand that if he hits people he won't have any friends.

That is horrible. So cruel. Some one should have a word with that teacher. The boy will be so hurt.

Wall1257

I thought it was horrible too. I definately don't want to speak to the teacher myself about it but should I tell his Mother?

byhookorbycrook

Are you sure the teacher used the language as described, because if s/he did, I'd be quite concerned. I'd talk to the teacher first , to get their side.

sadie1502

Jesus poor child. What chance does he stand. I'd hate I'd that was my son or daughter. Me personally I'd say something to the mother and let hwe investigate it further. That's really sad. Shocking behaviour from a teacher.

byhookorbycrook

Before talking to the mother, I think the OP should talk to the teacher, to be fair.

bbbaldy

Wall1257 wrote:

I thought it was horrible too. I definately don't want to speak to the teacher myself about it but should I tell his Mother?

Yup tell his mother. I recommend not telling her at the school gates if possible, to prevent any knee jerk reaction. I would also inform the school principal.

judeboy101

So now we must feel sympathy for bullies?Op your own daughter didn't put up her hand to say she likes this kid!! I'm more shocked that a school has allowed a child to disrupt and physically assault students without intervention tbh.

Kristopherus

judeboy101 wrote: »

So now we must feel sympathy for bullies?Op your own daughter didn't put up her hand to say she likes this kid!! I'm more shocked that a school has allowed a child to disrupt and physically assault students without intervention tbh.

My thoughts, exactly. The mother of the school bully may very well go bald-headed for the teacher. The impression I get from the other posts is that the bully will have more rights than his victims:(.

Advbrd

judeboy101 wrote: »

So now we must feel sympathy for bullies?Op your own daughter didn't put up her hand to say she likes this kid!! I'm more shocked that a school has allowed a child to disrupt and physically assault students without intervention tbh.

Agreed. Kid in my sons school is the same. Mother actually witnessed him throw stones at my kid on one occasion and punch him on two other occasions and did nothing. I let rip at her the last time and visited the principal on all subsequent bullying occasions. According to the schools charter the kid should actually be expelled at this stage due to his behaviour. This may be considered harsh by some but this sort of bullying behaviour should not be tolerated. Why should all other kids suffer to accommodate the poor little bully?

mickmackmcgoo

judeboy101 wrote:

So now we must feel sympathy for bullies?Op your own daughter didn't put up her hand to say she likes this kid!! I'm more shocked that a school has allowed a child to disrupt and physically assault students without intervention tbh.

What kind of intervention should the school take? It's a seven year old ! The teacher is bang out of order . There are adults in this country who commit multiple offences including assault and they get chance after chance in courts . What do you suggest should happen to a 7 year old?

hannible the cannible

Kristopherus wrote: »

My thoughts, exactly. The mother of the school bully may very well go bald-headed for the teacher. The impression I get from the other posts is that the bully will have more rights than his victims:(.

judeboy101 wrote: »

So now we must feel sympathy for bullies?Op your own daughter didn't put up her hand to say she likes this kid!! I'm more shocked that a school has allowed a child to disrupt and physically assault students without intervention tbh.

The child is 7 , do ye actually belive a child of 7 is bad , there is usually an underlying issue related to why a child bullies others , what would ye do , expel him , moronic posts in the extreme

Kristopherus

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

What kind of intervention should the school take? It's a seven year old ! The teacher is bang out of order . There are adults in this country who commit multiple offences including assault and they get chance after chance in courts . What do you suggest should happen to a 7 year old?

And if he's allowed continue unchecked, he's gonna get worse as he grows up.

mickmackmcgoo

Kristopherus wrote:

And if he's allowed continue unchecked, he's gonna get worse as he grows up.

I'm not suggesting he should be allowed unchecked at all but what the teacher done will only make it worse . He now has the ammunition that not one other likes him. I'm no child psychologist but the teachers actions were Ill judged . The child has under lying issues that need to be addressed. No one condones bullying but there has to be a better way of addressing it

wirelessdude01

Does the child in queation have a special need?

iLikeWaffles

I'd be having a word with that teacher and if I didn't like what he/she said I'd be taking it further. There was probably a discussion to get the class to intervene before hand, to give the benefit of the doubt, but if there was genuine malice in taking that step just to punish the lad or show him he can't be disruptive I would want to know.

There is usually a reason behind a kid misbehaving in school, whether it be intellectual difficulties or a disorder of some form or difficulties at home.

BrianBoru00

Wall1257 wrote: »

There is a boy in my child's class who is particularly badly behaved. He purposefully physically hurts other children and is quite problematic. He has been like this since he started school, he is now 7 years old.

However, today in class his teacher asked the whole cclass if anybody likes him. Nobody put their hands up. She then asked the boy how he felt about that and he said that he is sad that nobody likes him. My daughter thinks that the teacher did that so that the boy could understand that if he hits people he won't have any friends.

I am very concerned about the teacher's method. Maybe it's a last resort because they have tried everything else with him. What do you think? I need opinions because I don't know if I should tell his Mother what happened. I have spoken to her a couple of times and I am almost positive that she will complain to the school. But is it the shock the boy needs to improve his behaviour?

You should mind your own business.
Its your daughters report of what went on in class. you don't know what wording was used.
No teacher or principal worth their salt should discuss another persons child with you - Its not up to them to justify it to you.

If there is an incident with your own child your entitled to query it. If you belive there are serious child welfare issues query it but have some cop on and stop jumping up and down over one remark about one incident as reported by a seven year old.

lazybones32

Well, what corrective procedure would you recommend op? It's easy to find fault with peoples efforts but what would you have done different? The child has been bullying and disrupting for a long time and yet your problem is with how he has been treated even though you yourself said He purposefully physically hurts other children.

If it came to my attention that 1 child was hitting other children and disrupting the whole class, my main sympathy wouldn't be with the offender. Instead of being angry with the teacher for not correcting the kid in a child-centric manner that won't damage his self-esteem, maybe be concerned that your child is in a classroom with someone who beats them and is left do it. That's what I'd be angry about.

BettePorter

If the teacher said that .... exactly as u described then they were definitely way outta line and should be called on it. But there is a chance it was somewhere in between and she was making a point to him, nobody thinks ur behaviour is funny Michael, or nobody likes it when ur mean to others. I'd tread carefully before you maybe get a good teacher reprimanded and a naughty child told hes been victimised. Its a grey area.

_Whimsical_

Kristopherus wrote: »

And if he's allowed continue unchecked, he's gonna get worse as he grows up.

And that's percisely what'll happen if you throw peer shaming, consequent low self esteem and social isolation at him. Children have behavioural problems for all sorts of reasons, very rarely because they're "bold" kids who could just as easily sit quietly and behave tomorrow.

It was a very poor move by the teacher, she shouldn't be teaching kids that young. I'd report it to the principal OP rather than tackling the teacher yourself. She clearly needs pulling up and a refresher on how to handle kids with behavioural issues. A principal might be able to handle her with some constructive criticism and that will benefit the kids she has now in class and for years to come.

mosstin

judeboy101 wrote: »

So now we must feel sympathy for bullies?Op your own daughter didn't put up her hand to say she likes this kid!! I'm more shocked that a school has allowed a child to disrupt and physically assault students without intervention tbh.

Christ, this is a ridiculously unforgiving perspective. The alleged bully is 7 years old for starters. Children have a tendency to exaggerate stories about children who simply don't fit into their group or that they simply take a dislike to. The child's 'bullying' tendencies might be no more nasty than a natural boisterousness.
As for the story about the teacher - again, children have very selective memories and can recount things very differently to what actually may have happened. If that's what the teacher actually did - and I strongly suspect it wasn't - that's a remarkably unprofessional thing to do to a child. Again though, worth fleshing out with the teacher in question before taking the teacher to the stocks just yet.

_Whimsical_

That sort of behaviour on the part of a teacher really frightens other kids too. I had something like that happen to a child in my class in primary school. A lunchbox went missing and the teacher became convinced one boy, John, had stolen it. She went after him about it for days and eventually made people in the class raise their hand if they thought he did it. As she was so cross we all raised our hands out of fear of disagreeing with her.
It's the most unpleasant experience I had in school and it has always stayed with me. You don't teach small kids that you control others with fear and shame. It's damaging influence on all those children in the class.

implausible

If the boy is 7, I'd guess your daughter is 7 too. Good intentioned as kids this age can be, they're notoriously bad at remembering things and just as good at filling in the gaps. She may have got the gist of it, but in this day and age, I find it near impossible to believe that a primary school teacher who is trained and experienced in dealing with very small children would deal with a child by publicly shaming him.

Bully or not, this kid is 7 and there are plenty of ways of dealing with unruly behaviour (behaviour that has been reported by another 7 year old).

I wouldn't get involved, OP, you could cause a lot of conflict based on something that is, at best, unsubstantiated hearsay.

SusieBlue

My interpretation would be that it's more likely that the teacher said something more along the lines of 'put your hands up if you like Jimmy when he says nasty things/hits/it's boisterous, etc.'
As someone who has spent a lot of time around kids that age, they hear what they want to hear and will often focus on one aspect of the topic rather than the whole picture.
So rather than hearing that the teacher asked does anyone in the class like when he is bold, your daughter simply heard 'does anyone in the class like jimmy'.
Obviously neither scenario is the right approach but the first one is slightly better.
I also can't believe the pitchfork esque comments about the little boy. Any child that age is capable of being naughty from time to time but at the level he's displaying, there must certainly be an underlying issue.
Whether it's a family problem, lack of discipline etc I don't know, but he isn't like this for the fun of it.
Kids know right from wrong and even though he is lashing out you can bet your bottom dollar he knows the other kids don't like him for it, he just can't help himself.
I would suggest broaching the teacher first and find out exactly what was said. If your daughter is correct however I would have no hesitation in contacting the principal and parents. A child with such behavioural issues doesn't need to be isolated any further by an adult in power.

Wall1257

Thank you so much everyone for your reply.

The child doesn't have any learning or physical issues at all.

I understand the posters who have said "should we now feel sorry for the bullies?". This is certainty a valid argument..... I myself was bullied until I was 11 years old and never quite got over it. However , he is only seven. ..... I am finding it difficult to justify the teacher's method.

Some have suggested approaching the teacher myself but I definately wouldn't be able to do that.

A group of children, including the bully, were playing together after school yesterday. The boy started telling me how bored he always is. His Mother works and he only gets to see her in the morning before he goes to school. He only sees his father from about 19:00 every evening. (They also work on Saturday's.) He seemed sad and lonely when he was telling me.

While I'm still not sure, I'm beginning to think I should just keep my mouth shut :-(

Wall1257

I would be reasonably confident that my daughter recounted the words used by the teacher accurately. Also the teacher is often inappropriate in how she deals with the children. Some have been in tears because of the way she shouts at them. The neighbouring classes can even hear her.

Wall1257

I wouldn't get involved, OP, you could cause a lot of conflict based on something that is, at best, unsubstantiated hearsay.[/quote]

I think you are right... Thank you.

Glebee

Id stay well out of it if it does not involve your own child... I guess in the classroom the teacher is the boss.

Wall1257

You don't teach small kids that you control others with fear and shame. It's damaging influence on all those children in the class.[/quote]

Thank you for your reply. I also think it's terrible for a teacher to get all the other children to gang up on him.......

I don't like the example she is setting for my daughter either.

Wall1257

BettePorter wrote: »

If the teacher said that .... exactly as u described then they were definitely way outta line and should be called on it. But there is a chance it was somewhere in between and she was making a point to him, nobody thinks ur behaviour is funny Michael, or nobody likes it when ur mean to others. I'd tread carefully before you maybe get a good teacher reprimanded and a naughty child told hes been victimised. Its a grey area.

It really is a "grey area"..... that is why I am so desperate for help :-)

Wall1257

lazybones32 wrote: »

Well, what corrective procedure would you recommend op? It's easy to find fault with peoples efforts but what would you have done different? The child has been bullying and disrupting for a long time and yet your problem is with how he has been treated even though you yourself said He purposefully physically hurts other children.

If it came to my attention that 1 child was hitting other children and disrupting the whole class, my main sympathy wouldn't be with the offender. Instead of being angry with the teacher for not correcting the kid in a child-centric manner that won't damage his self-esteem, maybe be concerned that your child is in a classroom with someone who beats them and is left do it. That's what I'd be angry about.

As a teacher, I would call his parents , make them leave and take their son home for the rest of the day. I would do that every time..... I am sure the boy would soon start behaving.

Wall1257

You should mind your own business.
Its your daughters report of what went on in class. you don't know what wording was used.
No teacher or principal worth their salt should discuss another persons child with you - Its not up to them to justify it to you.

If there is an incident with your own child your entitled to query it. If you belive there are serious child welfare issues query it but have some cop on and stop jumping up and down over one remark about one incident as reported by a seven year old.[/quote]

:-) Thanks for replying. I have no intention of discussing this with the teacher...... I know that would be the boy's parent's place.

Also I can assure you that I am not "jumping up and down" about the situation......... I simply don't have the energy :-)

lawred2

Wall1257 wrote: »

There is a boy in my child's class who is particularly badly behaved. He purposefully physically hurts other children and is quite problematic. He has been like this since he started school, he is now 7 years old.

However, today in class his teacher asked the whole cclass if anybody likes him. Nobody put their hands up. She then asked the boy how he felt about that and he said that he is sad that nobody likes him. My daughter thinks that the teacher did that so that the boy could understand that if he hits people he won't have any friends.

I am very concerned about the teacher's method. Maybe it's a last resort because they have tried everything else with him. What do you think? I need opinions because I don't know if I should tell his Mother what happened. I have spoken to her a couple of times and I am almost positive that she will complain to the school. But is it the shock the boy needs to improve his behaviour?

That's horrible.

Wanderer78

Adhd I wonder, if so requires very careful attention. Poor kid

frash

Would you mind stating the general area this school is in?
I've dealt with a similar teacher before & wondering if it's her.

PM me if you'd prefer

SAMTALK

Would question if the children got the wording right but IF they did that is so sad that an adult in authority would speak like that.

The child has obviously got problems and as someone suggested before the school should contact the parents with each episode.

The hurt that the poor child must have felt is heartbreaking no matter what is going on and if the adults cannot deal with this without involving other children I would question their ability to teach.

big_drive

I'd be surprised if that was the wording, I'd say it got slanted along the way

Also without knowing the full story its impossible to comment, for all we know the school and parents might be in regular contact.

Also I feel a lot of parents need to focus on their own child and don't be getting involved in something which doesn't concern them

lawred2

big_drive wrote: »

I'd be surprised if that was the wording, I'd say it got slanted along the way

Also without knowing the full story its impossible to comment, for all we know the school and parents might be in regular contact.

Also I feel a lot of parents need to focus on their own child and don't be getting involved in something which doesn't concern them

I wouldn't be one bit surprised.

SAMTALK

big_drive wrote: »

I'd be surprised if that was the wording, I'd say it got slanted along the way

Also without knowing the full story its impossible to comment, for all we know the school and parents might be in regular contact.

Also I feel a lot of parents need to focus on their own child and don't be getting involved in something which doesn't concern them

IF teacher did say this I dont think its wrong that a parent speaks up.
Its a form of bullying and if this happened in the yard Im sure parents would let someone in school know.
Maybe the child in question didnt tell his parents what happened so they might not hear about it.

My heart would go out to the child in this situation. No child deserves to be put down like that in front of his classmates

Big Bag of Chips

Why do you assume the parents don't know or that the boy didn't go home upset and tell them himself? If the child is physically hurting other children since he started school then the school will absolutely be in contact with the parents about it. If the parents are anyway interested they will be talking to him at home about what is going in school and they will be in very regular contact with the school to know how things are going.

It is not your place to step into the middle of the school and another parent. If your child was upset by the incident and felt upset at having to put up her hand to say she didn't like someone then go to the teacher about that. Another child and whether or not the school and parents are handling him properly is none of your business. Because you simply don't know the ins and outs. All you know is what your 7 year old retold.

If you think there are problems in general with the teacher and how she treats your child, then discuss that. It might lead to a change in her overall attitude, if that is what is needed. No point in standing at the school gate (or on the internet) giving out about her methods if you are unwilling to bring them to her, or the principal's attention.

lawred2

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Why do you assume the parents don't know or that the boy didn't go home upset and tell them himself? If the child is physically hurting other children since he started school then the school will absolutely be in contact with the parents about it. If the parents are anyway interested they will be talking to him at home about what is going in school and they will be in very regular contact with the school to know how things are going.

It is not your place to step into the middle of the school and another parent. If your child was upset by the incident and felt upset at having to put up her hand to say she didn't like someone then go to the teacher about that. Another child and whether or not the school and parents are handling him properly is none of your business. Because you simply don't know the ins and outs. All you know is what your 7 year old retold.

If you think there are problems in general with the teacher and how she treats your child, then discuss that. It might lead to a change in her overall attitude, if that is what is needed. No point in standing at the school gate (or on the internet) giving out about her methods if you are unwilling to bring them to her, or the principal's attention.

A child who is frequently in trouble is far less likely to go home and tell their parents that the teacher pulled a vile stunt like that because the child will be preconditioned into expecting further trouble at home.. The child is likely to believe that they 'deserved' it.

The mind of a child is not capable of such rational analysis as you've used.

People going around 'minding their own business' the entire time facilitates all sorts of wrongdoings where children are concerned.

Big Bag of Chips

So the OP approaches the teacher about what her child said. And about what the parent has generally heard about the teachers discipline methods. Her problem is with the teacher. But she has said she has no intention of approaching the teacher. Instead she's thinking of approaching someone else and letting them be the ones to go to the teacher about practices that she herself is not happy with but doesn't want to address.

If the OP has a problem with the teacher the OP addresses it, with the teacher. Involving someone else in the game of Chinese Whispers isn't the best course of action. Of course, if she wants to tell the parents, she should, of course. But in addition to that she should also approach the teacher herself, about her own child. The school will not discuss someone else's child with her. The more people who chakkenge her methods (if they need to be challenged, the more likely things are to change).

lawred2

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

So the OP approaches the teacher about what her child said. And about what the parent has generally heard about the teachers discipline methods. Her problem is with the teacher. But she has said she has no intention of approaching the teacher. Instead she's thinking of approaching someone else and let them be the ones to go to the teacher about practices that she herself is not happy with but doesn't want to address.

If the OP has a problem with the teacher the OP addresses it, with the teacher. Involving someone else in the game of Chinese Whispers isn't the best course of action. Of course, if she wants to tell the parents, she should, of course. But separate to that she should also approach the teacher herself, about her own child. The school will not discuss someone else's child with her.

?

The 'someone else' as you frequently refer to them is that child's parent.

Personally speaking; I find your take on this a bit odd and a bit too dispassionate. But yeah I do agree that she should go to that teacher and request that she not include her own daughter in such attempts to belittle another child.

But that child's mother should also be informed as to what has possibly happened.

Glebee

Oh the poor bully.:(

Big Bag of Chips

I know.

?

Bet according to the OP, that child isn't the only one affected by the teacher. She can, allegedly, be heard in other classrooms giving out? So 'someone else' could be any parent.... Just not the OP, eh?

Edit: At no point have I said the OP should stay quiet and say nothing. I have said she certainly should speak up. To the teacher. If she doesn't, then as you rightly say, she is contributing to the problem of how this child (and all the others) is being (allegedly) treated.

As a side not... I have walked through school corridors and have heard teachers raised voices from the corridors and other rooms. It wouldn't be unusual. Classes are big, children are noisy. Teachers sometimes need to raise their voices over the din to be heard.

Unless the OP brings what she has been told to the attention of the school then she can't keep sitting around tutting about how wrong it is.

lawred2

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I know.

?

Bet according to the OP, that child isn't the only one affected by the teacher. She can, allegedly, be heard in other classrooms giving out? So 'someone else' could be any parent.... Just not the OP, eh?

The someone else is the parent of this belittled child no?

SAMTALK

Glebee wrote: »

Oh the poor bully.:(

No

The poor CHILD.

Surely in this day and age our educational system would have a better way of dealing with problematic pupils than this

lawred2

Glebee wrote: »

Oh the poor bully.:(

I hope that was a typo on your part...

MeatTwoVeg

I love the way everyone is more concerned that poor little Johnny has had his feelings hurt than the fact that Johnny is physically assaulting his classmates on a regular basis.

lawred2

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

I love the way everyone is more concerned that poor little Johnny has had his feelings hurt than the fact that Johnny is physically assaulting his classmates on a regular basis.

settle down there matilda

The child's behaviour is a separate problem and one not to be ignored.. it has to be dealt with appropriately..

Obviously you think worsening the situation be isolating and belittling a seven year old child is the way to go. I'd hope you'd be in the minority though.

Big Bag of Chips

lawred2 wrote: »

Personally speaking; I find your take on this a bit odd and a bit too dispassionate.

I have 4 children at various levels in school. "My take on it" is that what a child repeats at home is very often not verbatim.

I have had 3 children who were in the same class retell me a story that happened that day with a lot of "No! no no! She said...", "No, but first he said.... ", "No! he didn't, he had....". And that would be from 3 eye witnesses to the same incident.

I have heard of teachers who were crying because the principal told them they were going to be fired. I have heard of teachers who were crying because the inspector told them they failed! And I have heard various other takes on why the teacher was crying.