Campaign calls for cyclists to hold insurance, pay road tax

Jawgap

First Brexit, now this.....the Brits are doing a whole year of crazy.....


From the Irish Times......

Campaign calls for cyclists to hold insurance, pay road tax

A British online campaign calling on cyclists to hold insurance and pay road tax has been described as “ludicrous” by Irish cycling campaigners.
The petition, which to date has been signed by more than 30,000 people and is entitled “Cyclists to hold insurance to use public UK roads”, says the UK’s roads are becoming unsafe “due to one particular community that feel they are eligible to cycle on public UK roads”.

The petition calls for cyclists to take a theory and practical test to obtain a cycling license, arguing that cyclists have no training in road safety. A note attached to the petition repeats the call for “cyclists to hold insurance and pay road tax” to use roads.

ThisRegard

Jesus christ, even the wording of the statement reads like it was put together by an absolute moron.

Bongalongherb

If cyclists want to use the roads then they should pay tax and insurance just like every other road user. It will happen here soon I'm sure of that. We cannot have a group of people paying it and others not.

Beasty

Must be EU laws against that. I'm sure you should be able to travel from other states into the UK without the imposition of such a tax...

,,,, Oh wait!

Beasty

The troll has been dealt with - please do not respond further to his post

Thanks

expectationlost

Jawgap wrote: »

First Brexit, now this.....the Brits are doing a whole year of crazy.....


From the Irish Times......

Campaign calls for cyclists to hold insurance, pay road tax

how did this make it into the Irish Times?

Jan Laco

When it happens I for one will be cycling in the middle of the lanes and not as far left as possible, to get the best benefit of my taxes.

ThisRegard

expectationlost wrote: »

how did this make it into the Irish Times?

To kick the hornets nest over here.

Jawgap

Beasty wrote: »

Must be EU laws against that. I'm sure you should be able to travel from other states into the UK without the imposition of such a tax...

,,,, Oh wait!

Cyclist road tax check.......The border post-Brexit.....:D

Rokta

It is motor tax, not road tax... what they want to tax cyclists for? Their emissions while farting on the bike?

Sleeper12

OSI wrote:

So pedestrians should need tax and insurance to?

Personally I think insurance wouldn't be a bad idea. Definitely not tax. Insurance wouldn't really work though. Each bike would need a license plate. Seems like a lot of hassle

Hmmzis

Rokta wrote: »

It is motor tax, not road tax... what they want to tax cyclists for? Their emissions while farting on the bike?

Oh, I know, let us introduce the Fart Tax! We'll inatall Fart-o-meters on all those farters and tax them by the pound escaping the rear vent. This is going to be glorious!


/s

alexinkildare

You're Cycling Ireland membership covers your insurance and road tax is based on emissions. So unless I'm wrong there is ZERO emissions from a bicycle.

Rokta

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Personally I think insurance wouldn't be a bad idea. Definitely not tax. Insurance wouldn't really work though. Each bike would need a license plate. Seems like a lot of hassle

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/membership/insurance covers you for a training spin.

The damages inflicted by cyclists and pedestrians are rather low compared to cars, physics and something with mass x speed etc.

Before anybody starts demanding insurance for cyclists, pedestrians and their dogs (!) they should see through that all motorists have insurance, 8% of all motorists in Ireland don't and believe me, it is not fun dealing with an accident caused by an uninsured driver.

Besides the point that the majority of cyclists do actually own a car and use one too.....

Rokta

Hmmzis wrote: »

Oh, I know, let us introduce the Fart Tax! We'll inatall Fart-o-meters on all those farters and tax them by the pound escaping the rear vent. This is going to be glorious!


/s

There should be an extra levy on cabbage and beans!

ted1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Personally I think insurance wouldn't be a bad idea. Definitely not tax. Insurance wouldn't really work though. Each bike would need a license plate. Seems like a lot of hassle

Insurance for what? Cars have insurance because of the high value claims are beyond the financial capabilities of most drivers.
What would the insurance cover ? What would the excess be? It'd cost more to administer than it would to pay out

Rokta

ted1 wrote: »

Insurance for what? Cars have insurance because of the high value claims are beyond the financial capabilities of most drivers.
What would the insurance cover ? What would the excess be? It'd cost more to administer than it would to pay out

No insurance company would offer such thing as it is complete non-sense. A public liability insurance would make sense in general however these are reserved for tradesmen and legal professions in Ireland, probably because of the high payouts.....

Go and find a bicycle insurance that covers theft alone and it is hard to find one because every man and his dog is after your bike with an angle grinder.

Sleeper12

ted1 wrote:

Insurance for what? Cars have insurance because of the high value claims are beyond the financial capabilities of most drivers. What would the insurance cover ? What would the excess be? It'd cost more to administer than it would to pay out

Well you could do serious damage if you ran into a five year old child but I was actually thinking of small insurance for yourself as a cyclist in case of falls etc.

Rokta

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Well you could do serious damage if you ran into a five year old child but I was actually thinking of small insurance for yourself as a cyclist in case of falls etc.

Cycling Ireland membership should cover that.

John_Rambo

Rokta wrote: »

Cycling Ireland membership should cover that.

Would they cover commuter cyclists?

cython

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Well you could do serious damage if you ran into a five year old child but I was actually thinking of small insurance for yourself as a cyclist in case of falls etc.

Seeing as motorists are only mandated to have third party cover, requiring cyclists to have insurance cover for themselves would be not just trying to extend the same rules, but in fact impose more stringent requirements, so the level playing field argument (flawed as it is) doesn't even extend to this.

_Brian

This really is ridiculous, in a time when we should be encouraging more and more cycling for the health benefits alone.. There are suggestions like this..

dbagman

Forget the insurance bit for a second, any cyclist that disagrees a lesson/licence in road safety and the rules of the road for the most vulnerable of road users is a stupid idea shouldn't be let use the roads. It's quite clear alot of cyclists don't have a basic understanding of road safety. Mind you the same could be said for some motorists, but that's another story.

Beasty

alexinkildare wrote: »

You're Cycling Ireland membership covers your insurance

It only covers you for "sanctioned" training/racing (under the auspices of CI)

Sleeper12

dbagman wrote:

Forget the insurance bit for a second, any cyclist that disagrees a lesson/licence in road safety and the rules of the road for the most vulnerable of road users is a stupid idea shouldn't be let use the roads. It's quite clear alot of cyclists don't have a basic understanding of road safety. Mind you the same could be said for some motorists, but that's another story.

I've always wondered why the rules of the road aren't taught in school. Even if you never drive or cycle pedestrians need to know too. Transition year would be a great time to do the theory test .

Wishbone Ash

dbagman wrote: »

.. It's quite clear alot of cyclists don't have a basic understanding of road safety....

A recent report in the UK relating to accidents involving cyclists and motor vehicles found that motorists were responsible for the accident in 100% of cases.

Jawgap

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I've always wondered why the rules of the road aren't taught in school. Even if you never drive or cycle pedestrians need to know too. Transition year would be a great time to do the theory test .

they were......

The Traffic School in Clontarf… a little piece of history

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNO90cesLpo

We'd a couple of trips here from school!!

ThisRegard

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I've always wondered why the rules of the road aren't taught in school. Even if you never drive or cycle pedestrians need to know too. Transition year would be a great time to do the theory test .

Back in the 80s we were also brought to the traffic school in that vid above.

ted1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Well you could do serious damage if you ran into a five year old child but I was actually thinking of small insurance for yourself as a cyclist in case of falls etc.

What kind on insurance would I need if I fell? Out of work ? Medical ?
Etc?
Flesh it out , my medical insurance will cover if I fall, my work pays if I'm out injured.

You suggested compulsory insurance without actually thinking it through.

As for doing damage to a 5 year old , tell me how often if ever that has happened

Jawgap

ThisRegard wrote: »

Back in the 80s we were all brought to the traffic school in that vid above.

You got a turn in the pedal cars......then you had to do a stint as a pedestrian.....then the really good pedestrians got another go in the pedal cars.....




......I never got a second go in the pedal cars.......


B@stard Guards!!!!

Sleeper12

Jawgap wrote:

We'd a couple of trips here from school!!

I was there myself around 1975 or so. The only school tour I ever had. Great laugh but not quite educational.

Annie get your Run

dbagman wrote: »

Forget the insurance bit for a second, any cyclist that disagrees a lesson/licence in road safety and the rules of the road for the most vulnerable of road users is a stupid idea shouldn't be let use the roads. It's quite clear alot of cyclists don't have a basic understanding of road safety. Mind you the same could be said for some motorists, but that's another story.

Actually it's not "another" story, it's all part of the same story. Plenty of people in Ireland, regardless of their mode of transportation, don't understand (or don't bother obeying) the rules of the road.

This argument is done to death. Every day I see acts by car drivers, moped users, bus drivers, pedestrians and cyclists that clearly contravene the rules of the road. The problem lies with enforcement, until we have some it seems were incapable of doing as we should. I'm sick to death of this going around in circles rubbish. No one section is immune from wrong doing so can we stop pointing fingers and start acting like grown ups and ALL obey the rules??!

ThisRegard

Jawgap wrote: »

You got a turn in the pedal cars......then you had to do a stint as a pedestrian.....then the really good pedestrians got another go in the pedal cars.....




......I never got a second go in the pedal cars.......


B@stard Guards!!!!

Lol, there was a massive clamber for the pedal cars on our trips too. Everyone already had bikes so feic those yokes they had, we wanted to pretend to be drivers. I was quite short so they were a massive disappointment for me, struggled to get the yokes moving.

amcalester

dbagman wrote: »

Forget the insurance bit for a second, any cyclist that disagrees a lesson/licence in road safety and the rules of the road for the most vulnerable of road users is a stupid idea shouldn't be let use the roads. It's quite clear alot of cyclists don't have a basic understanding of road safety. Mind you the same could be said for some motorists, but that's another story.

But all motorists have undergone such training and, as you admit, some are still unaware of road safety.

Any initiative or training etc is worthless unless we have improved enforcement.

Break a red light (motorist or cyclist) get a fine.

No lights or blown bulb, here's a fine.

Dangerous overtaking, etc etc receive a fine.

Rokta

+1 above

People should stop generalize and point fingers at one group only. The general adherence to the rules of the road in this country is piss poor.

I will never forget standing the first time at O'Connell Street as a pedestrian at the traffic light looking dumbfounded as I was literally the only one standing.... the rest was crossing the road at a red light.

Sleeper12

ted1 wrote:

What kind on insurance would I need if I fell? Out of work ? Medical ? Etc? Flesh it out , my medical insurance will cover if I fall, my work pays if I'm out injured.

I remember a chap died by falling off a bike in the 80s. Rathfarnham area I think. Before head gear was around. I know insurance wouldn't have been much good to him but he could have broken his neck and possibly in a wheelchair for life. Insurance would have been good in that case.

amcalester

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

A recent report in the UK relating to accidents involving cyclists and motor vehicles found that motorists were responsible for the accident in 100% of cases.

Not sure if this was sarcasm but I'd imagine that the only accidents that get reported are ones where the cyclist is sure he/she is in the right.

fat bloke

The mind boggles. Do these people have children? Were they ever children themselves?

"Woo hoo", said little Johnny. "Santa brought me a new bike for Christmas!!!!"
"Wow" said his best friend Chris. "Me too!! I can't wait til January 2nd when the insurance company call centres reopen and we can start ringing around for quotations!!! This'll be the best Christmas ever!!!"

ted1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I remember a chap died by falling off a bike in the 80s. Rathfarnham area I think. Before head gear was around. I know insurance wouldn't have been much good to him but he could have broken his neck and possibly in a wheelchair for life. Insurance would have been good in that case.

Right so because 1 person died in the 80s and insurance wouldn't have helped you think that it should be made compulsory,
Go back and read what you write and tell me your not trolling.

The man in the 80s was Mr.Klotz , his daughter was in my class.

Sleeper12

ted1 wrote:

Right so because 1 person died in the 80s and insurance wouldn't have helped you think that it should be made compulsory, Go back and read what you write and tell me your not trolling.

Ah Ted I don't troll. I'm not saying anything off the wall to annoy anyone. I just said I thought it was a good idea. Didn't say compulsory. Compulsory requires registration plates and I can't see it as workable. The cops can't catch all the uninsured motorists as it is. I also suggested teaching rules of the road to everyone in school. I believe everyone should be able to pass the theory test before leaving school. Everyone benefits, motorists,cyclists and pedestrians. It's a valid point of view.
Promise you im not trolling.

Sleeper12

ted1 wrote:

The man in the 80s was Mr.Klotz , his daughter was in my class.

Sorry I missed this part. Was it rathfarnham area? Don't know why rathfarnham is sticking in my head.

John_Rambo

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study

Department for Transport study in the UK where the data, which was analysed by the Transport Research Laboratory.

"With adult cyclists, police found the driver solely responsible in about 60%-75% of all cases, and riders solely at fault 17%-25% of the time."

I'd imagine the results would be similar here with heavier responsibility on drivers as UK drivers tend to be better than Irish drivers. Obviously drivers need to be educated about driving responsibly where cyclists are involved.

Maybe there should be a course introduced where drivers are coached on how to drive responsibly, use they're mirrors etc.. when it comes to sharing the roads with cyclists? Certainly, taking drivers out of the car and on to bikes for journeys should be mandatory for able bodied people. Most adult cyclists are drivers but most adult drivers are not cyclists and they're usually the culprits.

ted1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Sorry I missed this part. Was it rathfarnham area? Don't know why rathfarnham is sticking in my head.

Yes , that's the area , if I recall correctly his Saddle cane loose and he came off the bike.

Sleeper12

John_Rambo wrote:

Maybe there should be a course introduced where drivers are coached on how to drive responsibly, use they're mirrors etc.. when it comes to sharing the roads with cyclists? Certainly, taking drivers out of the car and on to bikes for journeys should be mandatory for able bodied people. Most adult cyclists are drivers but most adult drivers are not cyclists and they're usually the culprits.

And get them off the bloody mobile phone while driving! I'd have thought that compulsory Bluetooth in cars might help but that won't stop the texting

Sleeper12

ted1 wrote:

Yes , that's the area , if I recall correctly his Saddle cane loose and he came off the bike.

I'm not a cyclist but I was shocked when I read it. It started a big push for headgear. Must have been terrible for his family

Hmmzis

If you fall off you bike and injure yourself it's covered by your health insurance if you have one. If you don't have one then the public healthcare system is going to take care of your injuries (we still have one).

If you have household insurance it covers your 3rd party liability when outside the house but not in or on a motor vehicle, walking and cycling is covered in this regard.

What other insurace would one like to impose? Mandatory insurance of the bike itself?

railer201

Perish the thought - bureaucracy getting their hands on bicycles.

John_Rambo

If road tax were to be introduced for road users it would be fairly minimal for cyclists, but motorists would be hit very hard giving the fact that they can use all roads including the most expensive ones to construct and maintain. Motorists also cause most of wear, tear, accidents, maintenance and damage to roads and road infrastructure.

That, on top of motor tax would be a disaster for motoring lobbyists.

Only a foolish motorist would call for road tax.

Lemming

Not having read four pages; Jawgap ... as the OP can you answer me this? If I click on that IrishTimes link, will I lose IQ points from the apparent display of 'dumb' on show?

Cookie_Monster

I agree with the call for education of ROTR in schools, especially with an emphasis on socio-economic, health and environmental impacts of road usage and vehicle type. Everyone should have to cover it, we could cover the costs of this by increasing motor tax :pac::pac:

Jawgap

Lemming wrote: »

Not having read four pages; Jawgap ... as the OP can you answer me this? If I click on that IrishTimes link, will I lose IQ points from the apparent display of 'dumb' on show?

Probably not......but you will get a good laugh, followed by a creeping curiosity about the Irish Times gradual descent into click-bait, controversial-for-controversial sake 'journalism' and when it actually began.....imo, the day in question was when some editor said "Hey, why don't give Una Mulally a by-line".....

......wouldn't have happened in the Major's day, let me tell you