Pizzagate

Magnate

Some serious things coming out of the Podesta emails on Wikileaks. If you're not familiar, John Podesta was Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman. I really hope this turns out to be just some far fetched conspiracy, but given the spirit cooking stuff that has recently come to light I'm not so sure.

Start here, but be warned I felt ill reading some of it.
https://dcpizzagate.wordpress.com

What do yous make of all this?

Overheal

Magnate wrote: »

What do yous make of all this?

What do YOU think?

ScumLord

Looks like a load of wild speculation to me. Once they start looking at symbols on pizza store fronts and finding devil worshiping in everything, they've lost me. To much Christian dogma to take them seriously.

Magnate

Overheal wrote: »

What do YOU think?

Hmm...

See, I had a good bit of money staked on Sanders to win the election since last Summer. I spent many hours analysing it, and naturally followed it quite closely throughout the year. Actually that's an understatement. I became a bit obsessive, I was very plugged in and a lot more informed than the average voter, and certainly more than the average Irish citizen.

As a result of following it so closely, I've come to certain conclusions which I fully believe in 100%.

1. Clinton colluded with the media (including FB, Twitter and Google) & the DNC during the primaries.
2. Clinton colluded with George Soros to tamper voting machines.
3. Clinton stole the primary from Sanders.
4. The Clinton Foundation is rotten to the core, and has carried out some serious atrocities. It is responsible for the destabilisation of the middle east.
5. John Podesta and other Clinton associates participate in satanic rituals.

At this point, I take the above as matter of fact. I'm going to refuse to explain why I believe the above to be the case. To gather, sort and provide the evidence to support my beliefs would fry my brain. Information overload, I simply don't have the time.

I'm not sure about your beliefs, but imagine you knew the above to be true without doubt.

Now some other facts.

The Clinton Foundation has some serious ties to known child traffickers. Both Hillary & Bill have been to Jeffrey Epstein's private island numerous times.

When you take all that into account, yes I believe it to be true to some degree. There's too many coincidences, I would say that it at least warrants further investigation. Although I really would love to be proven wrong.

Magnate

ScumLord wrote: »

Looks like a load of wild speculation to me. Once they start looking at symbols on pizza store fronts and finding devil worshiping in everything, they've lost me. To much Christian dogma to take them seriously.

I would tend to agree, but

Those symbols are known to the FBI and referenced in the document.

Also, since people have started looking into this, all the businesses involved have altered their logos to try and disassociate from the known symbols.

Then there's the spirit cooking link to the Podesta's which makes them out to be complete nutcases.

A lot of coincidences in my opinion.

ScumLord

Magnate wrote: »

I would tend to agree, but

Those symbols are known to the FBI and referenced in the document.

Have you any other sources for that claim? Because one of them looks like the HB icecream logo.

Also, since people have started looking into this, all the businesses involved have altered their logos to try and disassociate from the known symbols.

That wouldn't really surprise me, if someone came into your shop and said that shape you drew to fill up space on your sign is used by peadophiles you wouldn't be long covering it up out of sheer shock.

ozozo

I come across this website;
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/pizzagate-4chan-uncovered-sick-world-washingtons-occult-elite/

Dohnjoe

Magnate wrote: »

1. Clinton colluded with the media (including FB, Twitter and Google) & the DNC during the primaries.
2. Clinton colluded with George Soros to tamper voting machines.
3. Clinton stole the primary from Sanders.
4. The Clinton Foundation is rotten to the core, and has carried out some serious atrocities. It is responsible for the destabilisation of the middle east.
5. John Podesta and other Clinton associates participate in satanic rituals.

At this point, I take the above as matter of fact. I'm going to refuse to explain why I believe the above to be the case.

When Obama was running and subsequently elected we heard all the same stuff, the symbols and signs, he was the anti-christ, etc. The old threads are still there if you want to have a look at them.

It's worth mentioning that the voting was completely rigged if Clinton won, yet it's interesting how quickly that notion evaporated when the reality of Trump winning became clear

Overheal

Dohnjoe wrote: »

When Obama was running and subsequently elected we heard all the same stuff, the symbols and signs, he was the anti-christ, etc. The old threads are still there

Ah yes. You can also glimpse the souls who were fanatically obsessed with it too, or just very bored and unemployed trolls. They basically tried to play six degrees of obama=lucifer=did 9/11

One thing I'm not up on that id like informed on thread: what's this about Podesta and satanic rituals/cooking? Totally lost me there. Saw some Facebook posts a couple weeks ago but had no time for that nonsense.

Psychedelic

Overheal wrote: »

Ah yes. You can also glimpse the souls who were fanatically obsessed with it too, or just very bored and unemployed trolls. They basically tried to play six degrees of obama=lucifer=did 9/11

One thing I'm not up on that id like informed on thread: what's this about Podesta and satanic rituals/cooking? Totally lost me there. Saw some Facebook posts a couple weeks ago but had no time for that nonsense.

"I can't be bothered to do look at the evidence but I'm gonna say that it's all nonsense anyway."

Galway_Old_Man

Magnate wrote: »

Then there's the spirit cooking link to the Podesta's which makes them out to be complete nutcases.

That was an interesting one. Sure it's all going to be handwaved away

ScumLord

Psychedelic wrote: »

"I can't be bothered to do look at the evidence but I'm gonna say that it's all nonsense anyway."

I had a quick look at the page and I saw the same old evangelical Christian fear of hollywood. I've read some of the daft conspiracy theories before and this is just a watered down version as far as I can see. There's no actual evidence just inferred accusations based on symbols and the fact the people in question are weirdos.

I have a friend who makes this claim a lot in reference to ancient aliens and how ancient buildings couldn't have been built by ancient people. He seems to think that the theory should hold the same weight as actual archeology and science. Whenever I dismiss it he assumes I just didn't give it enough thought or that I shouldn't be shooting down these theories because they carry the same validity. But I did look into them, years before he did and they're all nonsense, there's no new evidense, so I see no reason to change my opinion. But he continues to think that I'm just not putting the effort into going through all the evidense. Which isn't true, I just include academic evidense instead of just what some convicted con men came up with.

Psychedelic

Search for pizzagate on YouTube and watch some videos.

Also have a look at:
Conspiracy of Silence
Retired HEAD OF FBI Tells ALL "Illuminati, Satanism, Pedophile Rings
An Open Secret (An investigation into accusations of teenagers being sexually abused within the film industry)

Here are a few facts to think about:

• The mainstream media lies - this has been proven so much during Brexit and the US Presidential election. WikiLeaks has proven that pretty much all the mainstream media is aligned to protect and promote certain interests.
• Pedophile rings with connections to politicians do exist, e.g. Jimmy Savile. See also the connection between Bill Clinton and convicted underage sex abuser Jeffrey Epstein.
• Occultism/Satanism exists. Whether you believe in it or not, it exists and people practice it. WikiLeaks has proven the occult connections with politicians.
• The New York Times ran a story "debunking" PizzaGate. The article originally had "Fact Check" in its title, but that was removed shortly after publication. The article just repeats the word "fake" over and over, and doesn't actually prove anything. It's a terribly one-sided article that ignores so much evidence. Several other media sources then ran with that story, and then Snopes did their thing on it. Then a PizzaGate sub-Reddit with 23k subscribers was deleted in an attempt to stop the investigation. Subsequent PizzaGate sub-Reddits were immediately shut down for no reason. All this happened in the space of 24 hours.
• Before all this we also had the "fake news" thing being pushed by the mainstream media this week, a coordinated effort to make people dismiss all media sources other than them. The mainstream media is actually the fake news. One of the best examples of this was Huffington Post's prediction on 7th November that Hillary had a 95% chance of winning. They are liars.

Seriously, keep an open mind on this one and look into it a bit. It's not just Christian hysteria and paranoia.

Nidom

I've been debating whether or not to create an account for some time now, I agree with a lot of what OP has said but didn't see the value in jumping into an online discussion forum and sinking hours into researching and constructing rational arguments to present to people who would just dismiss them using the first logical fallacy that comes to mind.

Then I thought about it further and realised two things. Firstly, I do believe that pizzagate is genuine - to what extent I'm not sure. Secondly, whether it is true or not, the fact that I believe it means that I have a moral obligation to raise awareness and present the public with as much evidence as possible so that they can come to their own conclusions. We live in a time of mass censorship, manipulation and outright propaganda. The end goal? To "produce an unaware and compliant citizenry." (wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/3599)

My plan is to create a journal of sorts and start from the very beginning, presenting short irrefutable arguments and building upon a sound base of evidence bit by bit. I realise that if you just claim that there's a "satanic elitist pedo cult in Washington" nobody is going to believe you, no matter how much evidence you provide. I want to start from the start and look at the history of the Clintons, Soros, The Clinton Foundation and their media ties before I get into the satanist / pizzagate stuff. Is this something that people would be interested in? I know the idea sounds like a ridiculous "right wing conspiracy" but a coherent argument at least deserves to be considered, right?

I still haven't 100% committed to that, so in keeping with the topic of this thread, here's some additional information to consider.

The NYT article Psychedelic referenced (nytimes.com/2016/11/21/technology/fact-check-this-pizzeria-is-not-a-child-trafficking-site.html)

^ I think this very thread is referenced because it says the conspiracy has made its way to Ireland and I don't see any mention of it in Irish media or anywhere else on Boards.

A complete dissection and refutation of it (voat(dot)co/v/pizzagate/1428011)

A complete summary of pizzagate (archive.is/4Uzg8)

And lastly here's the new home of the reddit based pizzagate investigation (voat(dot)co/v/pizzagate)

I'm a new user and can't post links I'm afraid, I'd appreciate if someone could link them for me.

Finally, just a few things to add:

I genuinely don't believe this is a politically motivated conspiracy. Trump has won and it's only just beginning to catch fire. Nobody claims Clinton/Podesta is the ringleader, just that they are possibly implicated. The investigation on reddit had united over 20,000 people from both sides of the political spectrum in just a few short weeks. I think we need to drop the christian hysteria angle and look at this objectively.

Also, someone asked about the FBI symbols, here's a wikileaks document on it (wikileaks.org/wiki/FBI_pedophile_symbols) However I'd like to note that there is a lot more evidence to the investigation than weird symbols, I think we should look past this at some of the stronger links that form the basis of it.

Lastly, here's a journalist that offers some good insight -> twitter.com/d_seaman I'd recommend checking out his youtube channel.

looksee

A few random questions on some of the stuff already mentioned:

1. Clinton colluded with the media (including FB, Twitter and Google) & the DNC during the primaries.

What was in it for the news media to collude with her (collusion has to go both ways)? Cynically, Trump was a much more entertaining and click-bait personality for them. Why was so much anti-Clinton stuff allowed to be repeated in the social media if she was controlling it?

2. Clinton colluded with George Soros to tamper voting machines.

They did not do a very good job of it, considering she lost.

3. Clinton stole the primary from Sanders.

Define 'stole'.

"I can't be bothered to do look at the evidence but I'm gonna say that it's all nonsense anyway."

Magnate has specifically declined to offer any evidence but expects everyone to accept his argument as 'fact'. Sounds a bit like religion to me.

Also, since people have started looking into this, all the businesses involved have altered their logos to try and disassociate from the known symbols.

Seems like the natural reaction of people who had no idea about the symbols in the first place.

Occultism/Satanism exists. Whether you believe in it or not, it exists and people practice it. WikiLeaks has proven the occult connections with politicians

So it exists, I have no doubt it does. So does Christianity, Islam and a load of other beliefs. It does not prove there is anything in them, apart from a lot of very gullible and often dangerous people.

ScumLord

Psychedelic wrote: »

Search for pizzagate on YouTube and watch some videos.

Also have a look at:
Conspiracy of Silence
Retired HEAD OF FBI Tells ALL "Illuminati, Satanism, Pedophile Rings
An Open Secret (An investigation into accusations of teenagers being sexually abused within the film industry)

Hmmm... These type of links don't really help your cause. Homemade videos of someone spouting their opinion isn't really good evidense.

Here are a few facts to think about:

No here's you beliefs and opinions.

The mainstream media lies - this has been proven so much during Brexit and the US Presidential election. WikiLeaks has proven that pretty much all the mainstream media is aligned to protect and promote certain interests.

Meh, yes and no. Mainstream media cares about one thing, money. There are agendas, there are media companies stuck with a certain viewpoint, papers probably likely get told not to print things or decide not to print things to protect people that pay their wages. But it's not quiet lies, it's more, misinformation, wilful ignorance, blind allegiance. Flat out lying opens them up to litigation, so if you have evidense they're lying get a solicitor and sue them

But the bottom line is media companies are desperate for money, they can't provide the service they did in the past and have to pander to the lowest common denominator doing clickbait publishing.

Pedophile rings with connections to politicians do exist,

It wouldn't surprise me, but I doubt their flaunting it down at the local pizzahut.

Occultism/Satanism exists. Whether you believe in it or not, it exists and people practice it. WikiLeaks has proven the occult connections with politicians.

So? What difference does it make what religion they are? Satanists don't go around murdering people, as far as I can tell they just like wearing the clothes. See this is the Christian contempt coming through in the story.

The New York Times ran a story "debunking" PizzaGate. The article originally had "Fact Check" in its title, but that was removed shortly after publication. The article just repeats the word "fake" over and over, and doesn't actually prove anything. It's a terribly one-sided article that ignores so much evidence. Several other media sources then ran with that story, and then Snopes did their thing on it. Then a PizzaGate sub-Reddit with 23k subscribers was deleted in an attempt to stop the investigation. Subsequent PizzaGate sub-Reddits were immediately shut down for no reason. All this happened in the space of 24 hours.

Here's the NYtimes article that was supposedly taken down. It also explains why the redit article would have been taken down, the owner of the restaurant was trying to remove false allegations against him, which is fair enough.

But this highlights another aspect of these theories. So many times this year we've seen someone start a thread where someone comes on accusing the media of ignoring news that's literally just happened, they read something on twitter, don't see it, or can't find it on one news site, then go on a crusade. By the time they've made the accusation on AH it's all over the news and they look like fools. The story above is a man and his business being attacked by internet loonies for no reason.

Before all this we also had the "fake news" thing being pushed by the mainstream media this week, a coordinated effort to make people dismiss all media sources other than them. The mainstream media is actually the fake news. One of the best examples of this was Huffington Post's prediction on 7th November that Hillary had a 95% chance of winning. They are liars.

They are not. You just don't understand what a poll is. It's a guess, it's always been a guess, it's not legally binding.

Seriously, keep an open mind on this one and look into it a bit. It's not just Christian hysteria and paranoia.[/QUOTE] You need to keep an open mind and start using more than one source for information. I'd imagine your google search is so used to feeding you nonsense, most your search results are just telling you what to hear at this point.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

Meh, yes and no. Mainstream media cares about one thing, money. There are agendas, there are media companies stuck with a certain viewpoint, papers probably likely get told not to print things or decide not to print things to protect people that pay their wages. But it's not quiet lies, it's more, misinformation, wilful ignorance, blind allegiance. Flat out lying opens them up to litigation, so if you have evidense they're lying get a solicitor and sue them

But the bottom line is media companies are desperate for money, they can't provide the service they did in the past and have to pander to the lowest common denominator doing clickbait publishing.

Again we have this dichotomy:
The mainstream are corrupt by virtue of profiting from their business, thus are completely untrustworthy and are involved in every conspiracy applicable.
Meanwhile, conspiracy outlets are pure as the driven snow and would never lie or be lax with the truth for agendas or for profit. Thus they are above reproach!

And, gosh, it's not like there's been a contentious election recently where someone might be incentivised to start cooking up rumours to undermine support in one party or the other...

Dohnjoe

The "mainstream media" trope has been beaten to death

There are thousands of outlets around the world, ranging from muck to credible, from state-controlled to independent, from biased to impartial.

Every company requires revenue to function, they did in the thirties, they did in the sixties and they do now. In each one of those eras there has also been levels of trash "news"

Likewise there have always been cynics trying to discredit an entire profession by it's lowest common denominator simply because it doesn't fit into their world view

Conspiracy theorists of all beliefs typically criticise "mainstream media" because corroborated facts often contradict their narrative

Thanks to the internet we have an explosion of cleverly packaged fake and distorted news and in fairness many people struggle to tell the difference. There's also a significant portion of people who don't care if something is true or not, they are emotionally attached to the subject, so they choose to believe what may very well be pure lies and go to sources that produce those lies

Free press is a double edged sword - it's essential to keep authority in check, but one of the offshoots is the abuse of the "free" part. Free to produce... anything. There are press standards and watchdogs, but unfortunately they can't police everything

TLDL; There are a lot of objective, quality news media out there.. it's just that we also create demand for ****e "news" about the Kardashians and Trump, fall for clickbait, go for biased stories, etc

silverharp

a lot of this started with the John Podesta emails , something odd about him and his brother for sure and there seems to be a very odd cast of characters in their cicrles. if there is anything in it hopefully the Feds are looking at it

Psychedelic

This website was in the first post and yet someone accused the OP of providing no evidence: https://dcpizzagate.wordpress.com/

ScumLord wrote: »

Hmmm... These type of links don't really help your cause. Homemade videos of someone spouting their opinion isn't really good evidense.

One video is of a former Head of FBI, hardly just some random guy spouting their opinion. Conspiracy of Silence was produced by by Yorkshire Television, it was unreleased/banned, so the editing is unfinished. It was based on the Franklin child prostitution ring allegations. An Open Secret is listed on IMDB.

ScumLord wrote: »

So? What difference does it make what religion they are? Satanists don't go around murdering people, as far as I can tell they just like wearing the clothes. See this is the Christian contempt coming through in the story.

It doesn't make any difference what religion they are. I never said Satanists go around murdering people.

ScumLord wrote: »

Here's the NYtimes article that was supposedly taken down.

I never said the NYT article was taken down. I said the words "Fact check" were removed from the article shortly after publication. The words are still there in the URL. See here for evidence. You don't need to watch the full video, just look at the article title at 0:14 and look at the article on the NYT website as it is now.

ScumLord wrote: »

You need to keep an open mind and start using more than one source for information. I'd imagine your google search is so used to feeding you nonsense, most your search results are just telling you what to hear at this point.

My sources include WikiLeaks and what has been found online posted by the people involved in this scandal, for example the sick images posted by the owner of Comet Ping Pong on his Instragram.

Rainman16

This reminds of the Jon Bennet Ramsey conspiracy. She was a 6 year old american beauty pageant contestant. Apparently her father and his friend used to take her down to the basement of their home and rape her, The family claimed one night she was kidnapped but the theory claims that Jon Bennet's father and other men gang raped the little girl and killed her as a sacrifice to some satanic deity.

Leroy42

Rainman16 wrote: »

This reminds of the Jon Bennet Ramsey conspiracy. She was a 6 year old american beauty pageant contestant. Apparently her father and his friend used to take her down to the basement of their home and rape her, The family claimed one night she was kidnapped but the theory claims that Jon Bennet's father and other men gang raped the little girl and killed her as a sacrifice to some satanic deity.

Sorry, do you mean that this totally unsubstantiated story reminds you of that case where a father and mother after having their daughter killed were subjected to hate and trolling based on nothing more than a few unqualified theories which in the end turned out to be completely false.

You know, the case where the mother died without being formally apologies to, and which now has been shown to be have nothing to do with any members of the family.

Yeah, I suppose there are similarities alright

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

Hmmm... These type of links don't really help your cause. Homemade videos of someone spouting their opinion isn't really good evidense.


No here's you beliefs and opinions.


Meh, yes and no. Mainstream media cares about one thing, money. There are agendas, there are media companies stuck with a certain viewpoint, papers probably likely get told not to print things or decide not to print things to protect people that pay their wages. But it's not quiet lies, it's more, misinformation, wilful ignorance, blind allegiance. Flat out lying opens them up to litigation, so if you have evidense they're lying get a solicitor and sue them

But the bottom line is media companies are desperate for money, they can't provide the service they did in the past and have to pander to the lowest common denominator doing clickbait publishing.


It wouldn't surprise me, but I doubt their flaunting it down at the local pizzahut.


So? What difference does it make what religion they are? Satanists don't go around murdering people, as far as I can tell they just like wearing the clothes. See this is the Christian contempt coming through in the story.



Here's the NYtimes article that was supposedly taken down. It also explains why the redit article would have been taken down, the owner of the restaurant was trying to remove false allegations against him, which is fair enough.

But this highlights another aspect of these theories. So many times this year we've seen someone start a thread where someone comes on accusing the media of ignoring news that's literally just happened, they read something on twitter, don't see it, or can't find it on one news site, then go on a crusade. By the time they've made the accusation on AH it's all over the news and they look like fools. The story above is a man and his business being attacked by internet loonies for no reason.

They are not. You just don't understand what a poll is. It's a guess, it's always been a guess, it's not legally binding.






Seriously, keep an open mind on this one and look into it a bit. It's not just Christian hysteria and paranoia.

You need to keep an open mind and start using more than one source for information. I'd imagine your google search is so used to feeding you nonsense, most your search results are just telling you what to hear at this point.[/QUOTE]








I'd find It hard to believe this paper in any way when you consider Mark Thompson is running it now... yes EX BBC guy who got the hell out of dodge post Jimmy Saville!!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/30/jimmy-savile-mark-thompson-new-york-times

robotno3

Andrew Breitbart tweet about Podesta from 2011. He knew something but he's dead now. https://twitter.com/AndrewBreitbart/status/33636278100561920

Leroy42

robotno3 wrote: »

Andrew Breitbart tweet about Podesta from 2011. He knew something but he's dead now. https://twitter.com/AndrewBreitbart/status/33636278100561920

well, if some guy said it on twitter than it must be true.

Why would you even post this. It adds nothing to anything. It is completely worthless as input.

People go on about the MSM being liars, but without that there are some checks (sub-editors, editors, known bias of the publication, libel laws) but social media is just any old crap that any one wants to post and others then retweet without even asking if it is based on anything.

Sure PE Trump is at it all the time.

Seems to be that it doesn't matter what you say, once you are saying something

Nidom

Leroy42

@Nidom, again it adds nothing.

She starts off by saying that this the the 'biggest political scandal she has ever read about". So straight away we are dealing with a person with a severely limited lack of historical or even contemporary knowledge.
She then states "facts that I have learned" and then does not give one fact. She gives lots of possibles, and many of them probables, but these are not facts.

Most of the e-mails she suggests have "code for something that makes no sense". So from her accepted position of lacking knowledge she then decides, based on nothing but what others have told her, that this is code, and not only code but code for the "biggest political scandal".

How is this any different than MSM bias? This is clearly a biased opinion piece. Thank god this level of rubbish has still not permeated the courts system, where actual evidence is required.

Now, it does all seem very creepy, certainly weird to me, but this at the moment, is nothing more than a witchhunt

Psychedelic

Leroy42 wrote: »

well, if some guy said it on twitter than it must be true.

Andrew Breitbart is a journalist who founded Breitbart News, not "some guy".

Leroy42

He is some guy until he provides evidence of a claim. He could have created the bible for all I care, what does that have to do with the veracity or otherwise of his pronouncements.

Rupert Murdoch runs many news organisations, do you accept everything he says as gospel?

Psychedelic

Psychedelic wrote: »

Andrew Breitbart is a journalist who founded Breitbart News, not "some guy".

So don't trust the mainstream media, but trust conservative, racist mouth pieces and Russian state media?

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

@Nidom, again it adds nothing.

She starts off by saying that this the the 'biggest political scandal she has ever read about". So straight away we are dealing with a person with a severely limited lack of historical or even contemporary knowledge.
She then states "facts that I have learned" and then does not give one fact. She gives lots of possibles, and many of them probables, but these are not facts.

Most of the e-mails she suggests have "code for something that makes no sense". So from her accepted position of lacking knowledge she then decides, based on nothing but what others have told her, that this is code, and not only code but code for the "biggest political scandal".

How is this any different than MSM bias? This is clearly a biased opinion piece. Thank god this level of rubbish has still not permeated the courts system, where actual evidence is required.

Now, it does all seem very creepy, certainly weird to me, but this at the moment, is nothing more than a witchhunt

I agree with you in the sense this particular person has no idea what she's talking about. But you cannot dismiss the ties that bind, from the podestas to the Clintons. Jesus look at their art collection for feck sake, if I held public office, that alone would make me run a mile from association with these loons, never mind the spirit cooking crap. she goes into an election with this lad handling things?? I'm not saying it's the whicker man but FFS this is all very creepy..

google tony podesta art and helen van meene...

Tell me that's normal and acceptable? if that was found on your PC at work as a screens aver you'd be sacked! or reported. and for them it's art?

you have to ask, if a person finds this artistic, what are their boundries in terms of what's normal or rather, what's not abnormal?

it's really really weird stuff to be fair.

Leroy42

I agree it all seems very creepy, I said that, and I agree that there does seem more than a whiff about this. But, and itsw a big but, there is simply no direct evidence. It is some serious conspiracy if all the people who have anything at all to do with any of this has failed to provide anything.

We have some dodgy, no context video. Was it a performance, a parody, real? No idea.

And Art, I mean for sake sake, Art is always weird. But do we know if he liked it because of the message that we are attributing to it or the art itself? Does a white person liking Rap make them a black person?

My point is that this is being put out there as a massive scandal, proof of corruption, links to Clintons etc, but very little is actually being provided.

I certainly would not like to be caught up in such a witch hunt where pretty much anything can be said and if repeated enough time people simply accept it as truth coz 'the internet' said it.

Nidom

Didn't try too hard to decipher that bizarre mess, but here's something that I think illustrates just where the problem is.

They are assuming meanings and leaping to huge conclusions based on the flimsiest pretenses, and often it seems when they contradict themselves.
For example, in the list of pictures, which are laughably innocuous, we have this one.

Nidom wrote: »

https://i.sli.mg/wGsp3j.png - "I LOVE KIDS" T-Shirt with two shirtless men

Which, along with the lovely undercurrent of homophobia that permeates the whole thing, is implying that wearing a shirt such as this must be evidence of them being a secret pedophile. (If this is not what he is implying, then I'd like to know what makes the photo suspect.)
However it doesn't take very long at all to figure out that the shirt refers to L'Enfant Cafe, as it's made clear by the comments.
The writer of this rant knows this as well as just a few lines up we have:

Nidom wrote: »

http://archive.is/sSzEZ - "La Boum Boum Room" (euphemism for brothel) is a Burlesque show under L'Enfant Cafe

So again, either the author was deliberately twisting stuff to make it sound shadier than it is, or he made a genuine mistake that silly.
Either way, it calls into question the rest of his investigative skills.

Also, these "weird comments" seem to be referring to the TV show Dexter and various other serial killer fiction tropes. Also, werewolves. Also Donald Judd, an artist known for using stark empty rooms for installations.

http://archive.is/jXWrG - Photo of refrigerated meat locker, weird comments

Overheal

Copy paste dump post deleted

ScumLord

rusty cole wrote: »

google tony podesta art and helen van meene...

Tell me that's normal and acceptable? if that was found on your PC at work as a screens aver you'd be sacked! or reported. and for them it's art?

you have to ask, if a person finds this artistic, what are their boundries in terms of what's normal or rather, what's not abnormal?

it's really really weird stuff to be fair.

Googling Hellen Van Meene brings up lots of portraits of mainly women, of all ages. I don't see anything out of sorts in my search results (which is why I question what google could be showing you). I have a sister who's an artist, so I've been a few exhibitions and some of it can be disturbing, sometimes the artist is trying to disturb. Modern art is often weird, disturbing, disgusting because it's holding up a mirror to society in general. What you should have said is "I don't get this art".

Japanese people like very violent art, yet are some of the nicest people on the planet. Being interested in certain art doesn't mean you'll go out and try and mimic that art in the real world. It would be like saying people who watch the news enjoy war and violence.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

I agree it all seems very creepy, I said that, and I agree that there does seem more than a whiff about this. But, and itsw a big but, there is simply no direct evidence. It is some serious conspiracy if all the people who have anything at all to do with any of this has failed to provide anything.

We have some dodgy, no context video. Was it a performance, a parody, real? No idea.

And Art, I mean for sake sake, Art is always weird. But do we know if he liked it because of the message that we are attributing to it or the art itself? Does a white person liking Rap make them a black person?

My point is that this is being put out there as a massive scandal, proof of corruption, links to Clintons etc, but very little is actually being provided.

I certainly would not like to be caught up in such a witch hunt where pretty much anything can be said and if repeated enough time people simply accept it as truth coz 'the internet' said it.

I kind of agree but in saying that, why is nobody even entertaining an investigation?. I was all to easy to investigate Saville after he died yes??
It's common knowledge the dogs in the street knew what he was at, ah that's just Jimmy been jimmy!!! based on past and recent events, shouldn't this at the very least be explained??? Like, ok then, so what do you mean by PIZZA here lads??? I don't buy your white person liking rap thing though. Maybe you should write this.. does a white person liking RAP..E fantasy art , make him a rapist?? No it doesn't but I sure wouldn't leave him watching my kids at a slumber party, so there you go. Unsavoury aint the word for these two guys.

ScumLord

rusty cole wrote: »

I kind of agree but in saying that, why is nobody even entertaining an investigation?. I was all to easy to investigate Saville after he died yes??
It's common knowledge the dogs in the street knew what he was at, ah that's just Jimmy been jimmy!!!

I don't think that's true, the people in charge did a good job of hiding who he was. That Louis Theroux did a live in documentary with him and said at the time he didn't notice anything untowards. But when he went back and watched the videos after everything came out he said the warning signs were there, he just overlooked them, and the likes of Theroux would only love to break a scandal like that.

There has to be a valid reason for opening an investigation. People on the internet spit ball ideas all the time, then someone takes that spit balling and creates some mythology around it and eventually you end up with an entire story that's grown out of a few misinterpreted "facts".

The facts presented so far are in line with the "Obama is the devil" stuff that used picture of obama standing in front of a curtain that made him look like he had horns as evidense. It's from the same people who are promoting a theory that hollywood are all devil worshippers trying to start a new world order.

silverharp

From Scott Adams' Blog , smart cookie



http://blog.dilbert.com/post/153821538056/about-pizzagate

Scott Adams' Blog

About #Pizzagate

Posted November 29th, 2016 @ 9:44am in #Trump #pizzagate

If you aren’t following the dark corners of social media you might not know of something called Pizzagate. Snopes.com calls it a “detailed conspiracy theory.”

The basic idea is that a pizza parlor in Washington DC is alleged to be the center of a major child sex ring that involves top Democrats close to Hillary Clinton. I have labelled this story “not credible,” and that opinion is confusing people because there is a mountain of evidence supporting the allegations.

So let me tell you what a mountain of evidence is worth.

Mountain of Evidence Value = zero.

In the normal two-dimensional world in which we imagine we live, a mountain of evidence usually means something is true. So why am I looking at the same mountain of evidence as the believers in pizzagate and coming to an opposite conclusion?

The difference is that I understand what confirmation bias is and how powerful it can be. If you don’t have the same level of appreciation for the power of confirmation bias, a mountain of evidence looks like proof.

Here’s what I know that most of you do not: Confirmation bias looks EXACTLY LIKE a mountain of real evidence. And let me be super-clear here. When I say it looks exactly the same, I am not exaggerating. I mean there is no way to tell the difference.

That sounds crazy, right?

Suppose dozens of children started coming forth and detailing sex crimes in this particular pizza parlor. Would that prove it happened, or would I call that more confirmation bias?

I would call that more confirmation bias. In fact, the situation would be identical to the famous McMartin Preschool case in the eighties in which lots of kids made similar and untrue claims of abuse. We don’t have to wonder if a “mountain of evidence” including dozens of first-hand accounts can be false because we know it already happened. Moreover, cognitive scientists can tell you that this sort of massive mistake is more normal than you can imagine.

I want to be totally clear here that I’m not saying Pizzagate is false. I see the mountain of evidence too. And collectively it feels totally persuasive to me. It might even be true. I’m not debating the underlying truth of it. That part I don’t know. My point is that what you see as a mountain of evidence that can’t be wrong, I see as something that is far more likely to be confirmation bias. If I had to put a number on it, I’d say perhaps a 20-1 odds the Pizzagate story is false.

Let me put this in a more familiar context. Most of the Pizzagate believers are also Trump supporters it seems. And Trump supporters have watched first-hand as half the residents of the United States concluded that Trump was the next Hitler. Why do tens-of-millions of people believe such a preposterous thing?

It’s because there is a mountain of evidence to support the allegation. Case in point, just yesterday Trump suggested that perhaps flag burners should be punished. That’s clearly dictator talk! (Except that Hillary Clinton proposed that actual law in 2005.)

The argument for Trump being the next Hitler is built on the same type of confirmation bias as Pizzagate. Both allegations are supported by a mountain of evidence. But if you look at each piece of evidence in isolation, none are individually persuasive.

Let me summarize my point by saying that if you were not aware of the McMartin Preschool case you were also not intellectually equipped to judge the credibility of either Pizzagate or the Trump-is-Hitler idea.

People have asked me whether or not an understanding of how persuasion works can protect against unwanted influence. The quick answer is no. Persuasion typically works just as well when you see it coming and you know how it works. But in some specific cases a superior knowledge of cognitive phenomenon can help. This is one of those cases. If you know about the McMartin Preschool case, and you understand the real power of confirmation bias, you might have the tools to avoid believing in either Pizzagate or the likelihood of Trump turning into the next Hitler.

And now you have those tools.

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

From Scott Adams' Blog , smart cookie



http://blog.dilbert.com/post/153821538056/about-pizzagate

ok soooooo basically you want us to use tools on some Mister mcmartin we never heard of, nor have any issue with? I see, would these tools be pitchfork related??? cos that sounds like witches talk to me buddy!!

you're in league with the satanists too!! burn em!!!!!

Psychedelic

The difficulty with this investigation is that any form of direct evidence would be images/videos of child pornography - not something that is going to get posted around the internet. We know these people use code language, so it's unlikely we will see communications that show them talking about these crimes literally.

The reason this investigation is being done by people online in the first place is because the authorities such as the FBI and Dept. of Justice have people involved in Pizzagate who are helping to stop any investigations.

I agree with some of the points raised here regarding the dangers of witch hunts and falsely accusing innocent people. At the same time that is not a reason to totally dismiss Pizzagate as just a conspiracy theory. Those who are skeptical are also helpful to the investigation, by bringing some balance. I honestly hope they are right and I am wrong.

Question for the skeptics: would you leave your kid alone in Comet Ping Pong?

Overheal

Most people wouldn't leave their kids alone pretty much anywhere in public.

Rainman16

Leroy42 wrote: »

Sorry, do you mean that this totally unsubstantiated story reminds you of that case where a father and mother after having their daughter killed were subjected to hate and trolling based on nothing more than a few unqualified theories which in the end turned out to be completely false.

You know, the case where the mother died without being formally apologies to, and which now has been shown to be have nothing to do with any members of the family.

Yeah, I suppose there are similarities alright

We clearly have 2 very different views on the story. I have no belief in the afterlife, but if hell does exist, It's too good a place for Patsy Ramsey.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Most people wouldn't leave their kids alone pretty much anywhere in public.

Créche's are public, I think you know what he's asking. He didn't say alone as in out in the cold, he means in a would be adult supervised environment, ya know like say the wombles show or Jim'll fix it was??? you see what he's getting at???

it's a fair question no.

Titanucd

If someone got hold of my emails and started calling me a Pedo due to some mad code words I was using I would come out and explain what that code meant. I am of course assuming that the 'Handkerchief' and 'Pizza' and 'Haitian Pizza' are code. If they are not then these guys speak a very bizarre lingo.

So what are they code for? Something innocent? Something nefarious? I dont know. I dont know how anyone can say they know.

And now anecdote time! Listen up at the back....

Many moons ago I worked in a shop in Dublin. One of my colleagues and I developed a code to grade the appearance of women who came into the shop (Yeah Yeah sexist, pervert, worse than Hitler etc. we were young what can I say)

The code worked like this:

Very pretty= And why not indeed? (So we would work this into the conversation to let the other know what we thought of said female)
Pretty= Why not?
Reasonably pretty= Ah sure why not?

Yes yes juvenile and silly but you see we were juvenile and silly.

One day the manager cornered us both and demanded an explanation for us speaking in an obvious code. Before we could explain he gave us his own take on it. We were fiddling the till and the code was related to whether we were going to ring up the sale for less than the amount of cash we were given or whether we were going to use the old 'no sale' button to open the till and pretend to put the money in.

Now this was nonsense there was just no way would either of us do anything like this but unbeknown to us the till had been short a few quid every couple of days over the previous month so the manager became suspicious and started keeping an eye on all the staff, noticed our stupid code words put 2 and 2 together and 593.

We quickly explained our code and why we used it. He believed us, Told us we were morons and instructed us to stop. Later that same week he caught one of the other lads red handed.

So the moral of this story?

If you get accused of something that is infinitely worse than what you are doing you are better to explain what you were actually doing rather than staying silent.

The Podestas et al have not issued a single word in relation to this 'code' therefore people are rightly or wrongly taking this silence as an admission.

If they want this to go away they can just explain the 'code'

Titanucd

Titanucd wrote: »

The Podestas et al have not issued a single word in relation to this 'code' therefore people are rightly or wrongly taking this silence as an admission.

If they want this to go away they can just explain the 'code'

But why would they do that? If they were talking in code, then they are talking about sensitive information. It could be legitimate, it could be illegitimate, but either way they gain nothing by explaining it.

First: It would expose what they are hiding in the first place.
Second: If it's less damning than what they are being accused of, then the people who are buying into this conspiracy theory aren't going to believe them.
Third: Even if they could explain it and have people believe it, how would it benefit them? They'd just have less people posting conspiracy hashtags at them. I doubt it's bothering them very much either way.

Titanucd

King Mob wrote: »

But why would they do that? If they were talking in code, then they are talking about sensitive information. It could be legitimate, it could be illegitimate, but either way they gain nothing by explaining it.

First: It would expose what they are hiding in the first place.
Second: If it's less damning than what they are being accused of, then the people who are buying into this conspiracy theory aren't going to believe them.
Third: Even if they could explain it and have people believe it, how would it benefit them? They'd just have less people posting conspiracy hashtags at them. I doubt it's bothering them very much either way.

Why would they do it?

To put the conspiracy to bed?

If they are talking about sensitive information (State secrets etc) then thats one thing. But really? you think its possible? The tone of the emails arent exactly serious or business like.

If they are genuinely innocent of these particular allegations it would make sense to blow the conspiracy out of the water.

You are right in one sense. If they have a more innocent explanation and they share this with the group it wont stop the hardcore accusers of claiming they are lying but I think the bulk of the people examining this would accept it and move on. There will always be those that just WANT to believe that the allegations are true and no amount of reasonable explanations will persuade them otherwise.

All I'm saying is that if it was me and I was accused of being a Pedo and it wasnt true and the entire case rested on some tenuous links to a few other people I would come out fighting. I would explain the 'code' in order to blow their 'findings' out of the water.

This Guy isnt exactly a workaday shmoe like me though so maybe he is doing something quietly in the background to exonerate himself.

You reckon the people involved arent bothered very much by the whole pizzagate thing? I disagree. I would imagine any human in the middle of this **** storm would be very concerned for themselves and their families particularly if the allegations are false.

Titanucd

Titanucd wrote: »

If they are talking about sensitive information (State secrets etc) then thats one thing. But really? you think its possible? The tone of the emails arent exactly serious or business like.

It could be that it's state secrets. It could be that it is just their business ventures that could also be sensitive. Or it could be nothing.

I don't see why the tone would exclude these other possibilities, but then not the possibility being discussed in the conspiracy.

Titanucd wrote: »

You are right in one sense. If they have a more innocent explanation and they share this with the group it wont stop the hardcore accusers of claiming they are lying but I think the bulk of the people examining this would accept it and move on. There will always be those that just WANT to believe that the allegations are true and no amount of reasonable explanations will persuade them otherwise.

Given the really tenuous and silly stuff people have to buy into to get on board with the conspiracy, I don't think anyone who does buy it is interested in the reasonable explanation.
If people are willing to accept a reasonable explanation, then what's unacceptable about it being nothing more than conspiracy theorists leaping to huge silly conclusions based on poorly fact checked claims?

Titanucd wrote: »

You reckon the people involved arent bothered very much by the whole pizzagate thing? I disagree. I would imagine any human in the middle of this **** storm would be very concerned for themselves and their families particularly if the allegations are false.

But why would they be bothered? It's a **** storm on twitter and conspiracy sites. At best it's an amusing story about crazy conspiracy theorists to people in the mainstream media. To the vast majority of people, they'll either ignore it or forget about it in a week. To the people in their professional and social circles, it's a non-issue.

The only people who are bothered by it are folks like the owner of the restaurant who's getting harassed for this nonsense.

The Podesta brothers would gain nothing by addressing the whole thing. They'd only stand to make it worse and throw fuel on the fire.
And this is true even in the conspiracy is some how true.
Their best option is to laugh it off and wait for it to blow over.

Leroy42

There is a saying, 'when you are explaining you are losing.'

If they come out with a statement, do you not think that every word of that statement will be pulled apart. And if nothing can be found doing that, it turns to what they didn't say. So they end up having to make another statement, then another etc.

Or if they release a video, then body language will be torn apart. "Why was he sitting in front of a lamp/picture/bare wall" etc. How come his hair was cut before the video, look here's a picture of him two years ago with long air and now short hair. Is it because small boys tend to have short hair?

And if they get a lawyer to do it. Then, "well of course, couldn't face the music themselves. Everyone knows the legal profession is knee deep in it anyway. And why such legal answers. Hiding behind the law as usual"

Best to stay quite and let it pass,

If there are truth in the allegations then bring the evidence to the police and let them handle it.

Titanucd

Given the really tenuous and silly stuff people have to buy into to get on board with the conspiracy, I don't think anyone who does buy it is interested in the reasonable explanation.
If people are willing to accept a reasonable explanation, then what's unacceptable about it being nothing more than conspiracy theorists leaping to huge silly conclusions based on poorly fact checked claims?

Pretty sure if we were on boards 15 years ago discussing Jimmy Saville the same thing would have been said.

But why would they be bothered? It's a **** storm on twitter and conspiracy sites. At best it's an amusing story about crazy conspiracy theorists to people in the mainstream media. To the vast majority of people, they'll either ignore it or forget about it in a week. To the people in their professional and social circles, it's a non-issue.

Your last line there is something I hadnt considered. If his friends, acquaintances and professional peers dont buy it then I suppose he has nothing to worry about.

The only people who are bothered by it are folks like the owner of the restaurant who's getting harassed for this nonsense.

Yeah and his staff. Feel sorry for them. They wouldnt have the same experience of dealing with negative stuff as the Podesta lad would.

The Podesta brothers would gain nothing by addressing the whole thing. They'd only stand to make it worse and throw fuel on the fire.
And this is true even in the conspiracy is some how true.
Their best option is to laugh it off and wait for it to blow over

If as you say their friends, families and peers dont believe a word of it then you are correct.

That said should they not at least try and help out the comet pizza guys by making some sort of statement?

Leroy42

The Jimmy Saville thing has been brought up a few times.

It was terrible, a complete failure from top to bottom. Cover up and people actively ignoring what was going on either through naivety or malice.

But none of that means that this is true. none of that means we can simply ignore due process. Evidence must be obtained, investigated and charges put. Only after a trial can be say which is true.