Inconclusive cow on tb test

mrbrendank

Hey,

I had a cow come up as Inconclusive on my annual tb test.
I have looked through options and i am choosing to send her to the factory without a postmortem because if she has it and she shuts me down i d be kinda screwed for selling in march.

so my question is where do i send her, i am living in galway. i know i have to apply for a movement cert but move her to where? i cant really find anything online to indicate factories that will take an inconclusive cow..

thanks

Mooooo

mrbrendank wrote: »

Hey,

I had a cow come up as Inconclusive on my annual tb test.
I have looked through options and i am choosing to send her to the factory without a postmortem because if she has it and she shuts me down i d be kinda screwed for selling in march.

so my question is where do i send her, i am living in galway. i know i have to apply for a movement cert but move her to where? i cant really find anything online to indicate factories that will take an inconclusive cow..

thanks

Ring the department to find out or local factory/ haulier and see if they will take her. I sent one away and it went to duleek, I'm in Cork. DID you get the paperwork from the department.? It should give the options but afaik I'd you kill her without getting the glands culture you will have to test the whole herd again before you will be clear. Other option is keep her and test her again or kill her and get the glands cultured and if they come back clear you are away. Now I may be wrong as I'm locked up already so they may be stricter but they were the options I was given.
Chose to kill and get glands cultured as I believe there is more risk in retesting using the skin test

mrbrendank

Mooooo wrote: »

Ring the department to find out or local factory/ haulier and see if they will take her. I sent one away and it went to duleek, I'm in Cork. DID you get the paperwork from the department.? It should give the options but afaik I'd you kill her without getting the glands culture you will have to test the whole herd again before you will be clear. Other option is keep her and test her again or kill her and get the glands cultured and if they come back clear you are away. Now I may be wrong as I'm locked up already so they may be stricter but they were the options I was given.
Chose to kill and get glands cultured as I believe there is more risk in retesting using the skin test

i think i am safer just getting her killed and getting the herd tested again in 6 weeks, if i send her to the factory and get her glands checked and if she has tb that will lock me up for a while and i will have bulls in march that have to go in march so it is too much of a gamble i am thinking. the letter is due tomorrow so i will see what it says, thanks for your advice

Mooooo

mrbrendank wrote: »

i think i am safer just getting her killed and getting the herd tested again in 6 weeks, if i send her to the factory and get her glands checked and if she has tb that will lock me up for a while and i will have bulls in march that have to go in march so it is too much of a gamble i am thinking. the letter is due tomorrow so i will see what it says, thanks for your advice

No bother. It's up to yourself but chat to your vet as well. If she comes back positive from the glands check the restriction will be from the day she leaves the farm whereas if you retest whole herd in 6 weeks and one goes down the restriction will be from that date in 6 weeks time, just something to keep in mind. only have had 2 cultured but both come back negative.

RD10

i'm in mayo. had a bought-in cow go down on test in august & she was takeb to moyvalley meats in kildare.
as far as im aware if they show as inconclusive, if you decide to keep the animal on the farm, she cannot be sold to a mart in future. only moved to factory? not totally sure of that though. you'll be sent out a lot of info on what can and cant be done.
i'd probably do same as yourself & get rid of her now. am locked up at minute & have reading in morning.

patsy_mccabe

Do you know if they are coming to blood test her for TB? I had 3 reactors in June and they came out and blood tested all 3 . 2 showed up positive. When they were killed none showed up with lesions in the lungs.

Sam Kade

I had an inconclusive in May I choose to get her retested after 42 days and she was clear but she can only go to the factory when I'll be selling her.

barnaman

Did you get the card back for her? As far as i know the vet will not return the card for an inconclusive animal. At least in Tipp will not and if in a TB black spot you are locked up with an inconclusive. Link below from Coughlan back when she was minister on inconclusive cattle

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2006-10-19.1313.0&s=tb+inconclusive#g1315.0.r

Sam Kade

barnaman wrote: »

Did you get the card back for her? As far as i know the vet will not return the card for an inconclusive animal. At least in Tipp will not and if in a TB black spot you are locked up with an inconclusive. Link below from Coughlan back when she was minister on inconclusive cattle

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2006-10-19.1313.0&s=tb+inconclusive#g1315.0.r

Yes, my vet held onto the card.

jack o shea

Lads is a river as the boundary enough to avoid a herd test if outbreak in a neighbour herd?

tanko

jack o shea wrote: »

Lads is a river as the boundary enough to avoid a herd test if outbreak in a neighbour herd?

I wouldn't think so.

jack o shea

A lad other side of river where I have cattle went down with tb, prick from dept rang and told me I'm restricted now and have to rest, have load of cattle to sell and no room for them if I go down, had a clear herd test myself in June, fcuking raging now....

tanko

That's a sickner, how many clear tests will you need to do before you're allowed to sell or does it depend how your neighbour gets on?

jack o shea

Just the one, but I have a terrible feeling it's my turn to " go down" in this scam dept money racket.....

blue5000

jack o shea wrote: »

A lad other side of river where I have cattle went down with tb, prick from dept rang and told me I'm restricted now and have to rest, have load of cattle to sell and no room for them if I go down, had a clear herd test myself in June, fcuking raging now....

That's a bit unusual. By any chance were your cattle and the neighbour's cattle drinking from the river or were they mixed at any stage? Dept. should pay for the test if you paid for one in June.

benneca1

jack o shea wrote: »

Just the one, but I have a terrible feeling it's my turn to " go down" in this scam dept money racket.....

Not really a scam just bad luck the guy across the river went down. Do you really think there is no such thing as TB and the whole thing is an industry to keep the Department of Agriculture in business. I think on reflection that doesn't stand up sorry

RD10

when my own cow went down she showed up with no lesions on the lungs but vet said that was because it was caught early and thats why didnt show up when killed. no bloody lab sample was taken though which im a bit annoyed at.
i'd rather have known for sure.
first 60 day clear test here thank god though.

benneca1

I had a look in the Dept Handbook if you have an inconclusive then to get clear ypu need a retest in 42 days or slaughter and negative lab results. AFIK you wont get away with just slaughtering her. If your wish is to get clear quick then slaughter and lab test is the fastest. Best check with your vet though. On one level if the cow is inconclusive why risk TB test, cut your losses and slaughtet her. It is possible that even is she were to be clear on Post Mortem she could have gone inconclusive again on a skin test.

jack o shea

Blue, they drink from same river but never mixed, to the other poster yes I do believe it's a money scam to keep tits in offices in jobs and a nice little earner for the vets when it suits them ......

huey1975

jack o shea wrote: »

Blue, they drink from same river but never mixed, to the other poster yes I do believe it's a money scam to keep tits in offices in jobs and a nice little earner for the vets when it suits them ......

I can't be sure if you are ignorant of the facts, stupid or a conspiracy theorist.
The facts are that in 1954 Ireland had 250,000 herds with 4,500,000 cattle. 17% of the cattle were reactors

In 2003 we had 125,000 herds with 6.9million cattle and reactor incidence of 0.4%.
In 2015 we had 115,091 herds with 6.3 million cattle. Reactor incidence had fallen by a further 40% to 0.24%. There are now virtually no clinical cases of TB in cattle now.
Who looks like a tit now?

jack o shea

Load of bollix, animals perfect one test, have it the next, don't have anything but shows up in factory, have it but nothing shows up in factory, money racket, depends on if the vets gives the 2nd shot or not when testing...,,

benneca1

jack o shea wrote: »

Load of bollix, animals perfect one test, have it the next, don't have anything but shows up in factory, have it but nothing shows up in factory, money racket, depends on if the vets gives the 2nd shot or not when testing...,,

Unforttunately witjout that load of bollix test your description not mine we cannot trade our milk or meat. If ypu tthink your vet is not testing correctly get another one to do the test.

Anyhow i dont think you really mean it everybody gets fed up if they have reactors.

J.O. Farmer

benneca1 wrote: »

Anyhow i dont think you really mean it everybody gets fed up if they have reactors.

He doesn't even have a reactor his neighbour does. He's locked up until he's a clear test and he seems unduly worried about this by the looks of things. The department will pay for the test since they called it and he's had his herd test in June. It's an inconvenience but chances are he'll go clear.


...... Unless he pisses off the vet by complaining about the money making scam and the vet gives the different second shot designed to bring up a lump regardless of TB.

Mooooo

It's the inaccuracies of the skin test that Annoys people. ANY doubtful I've sent to factory's has gone clear on cultures. Have had reactors killed with no lesions but then they don't culture those so who knows. I don't think it's a conspiracy just an all merciful pia

benneca1

Mooooo wrote: »

It's the inaccuracies of the skin test that Annoys people. ANY doubtful I've sent to factory's has gone clear on cultures. Have had reactors killed with no lesions but then they don't culture those so who knows. I don't think it's a conspiracy just an all merciful pia

I suppose thats the problem there is no 100% sensitive and specific test or even one that approaches it. What we have is making the best of the tests we have to get maximum benefit. Work is always ongoing on improving test but slagging off the dept and vets helps no one to be fair any contacts i had with them when my Dad was alive they were helpful and fair enough.

The man in red and black

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

...... Unless he pisses off the vet by complaining about the money making scam and the vet gives the different second shot designed to bring up a lump regardless of TB.

Sorry to shoot down the conspiracy but no such thing as a fake injection to bring up fake lumps. There are blue bottles and red bottles...there's nothing you could put in to cause that.

Lady Haywire

We've never had a reactor since testing began in what...the 1950's or round then? Every neighbour around us has gone down though, so it's only a matter of time!!

greysides

The man in red and black wrote: »

Sorry to shoot down the conspiracy but no such thing as a fake injection to bring up fake lumps. There are blue bottles and red bottles...there's nothing you could put in to cause that.

They never issued you the yellow bottles.....?

jack o shea

Dreading the nxt few days now, how do you know the vet doesn't give a 2nd shot to the odd animal? And it's bound to show up as a lump if he does?

foxy farmer

I know of a man who was arrested years ago when a large no of his animals showed up with very obvious lumps. Vet suspected something not right and informed the dept. Turned out he had injected them himself with a certain chemical. The compensation was good at the time and he wanted to avail of it. Same lad was up to every trick in the book. Only thing was the cattle had an adverse reaction and they had lumps as big as a fist and it was copped straight away.

greysides

jack o shea wrote: »

Dreading the nxt few days now, how do you know the vet doesn't give a 2nd shot to the odd animal? And it's bound to show up as a lump if he does?

I'm sure all vets hate coming across reactors too. It's not easy news to break. You could put a lot of effort into saving an animal and then have to tag a reactor at the next visit......

Sheep breeder

huey1975 wrote: »

I can't be sure if you are ignorant of the facts, stupid or a conspiracy theorist.
The facts are that in 1954 Ireland had 250,000 herds with 4,500,000 cattle. 17% of the cattle were reactors

In 2003 we had 125,000 herds with 6.9million cattle and reactor incidence of 0.4%.
In 2015 we had 115,091 herds with 6.3 million cattle. Reactor incidence had fallen by a further 40% to 0.24%. There are now virtually no clinical cases of TB in cattle now.
Who looks like a tit now?

You must have never had to deal with the hardship of a TB breakdown!!!!!

Sheep breeder

greysides wrote: »

I'm sure all vets hate coming across reactors too. It's not easy news to break. You could put a lot of effort into saving an animal and then have to tag a reactor at the next visit......

Maybe you could come up and tell two of the vets in a local practice how to THIS theory works , both got caught for incorrect testing and got suspended for six months and one got caught again shortly after returning and got 3 years suspension. The reason laziness and didn't care about farmers only quick buck.

tanko

huey1975 wrote: »

I can't be sure if you are ignorant of the facts, stupid or a conspiracy theorist.
The facts are that in 1954 Ireland had 250,000 herds with 4,500,000 cattle. 17% of the cattle were reactors

In 2003 we had 125,000 herds with 6.9million cattle and reactor incidence of 0.4%.
In 2015 we had 115,091 herds with 6.3 million cattle. Reactor incidence had fallen by a further 40% to 0.24%. There are now virtually no clinical cases of TB in cattle now.
Who looks like a tit now?

3.12% of cattle tested so far this year have been positive on the skin test. In West Wicklow the figure is 12%.

greysides

tanko wrote: »

3.12% of cattle tested so far this year have been positive on the skin test. In West Wicklow the figure is 12%.

Those figures look high. Reactors are usually measured in APT, basically, per thousand animal tests. If I understand it correctly an animal tested twice in the year would count as two animal-tests.

foxy farmer

Wicklow has the highest reactor rate with years. Why is that?

tanko

foxy farmer wrote: »

Wicklow has the highest reactor rate with years. Why is that?

Large deer population???
Yeah, those figures look high alrite. I read it on Agriland (must be true if it's on there:))

greysides

2015

J.O. Farmer

I think someone on agriland needs to learn basic maths. A percentage is out of 100 not 1,000. 12.5% would be more than 1 in 10. There'd hardly be a herd in the county not locked up at that rate.

Edit: I just read the article on agriland and it says 3.12% of herds have reactors but the next line says 12.5% of animals in wicklow. I wonder if they don't know the difference between a herd and the animals within the herd.

blue5000

Does anyone know why S Galway-N Clare is so bad? Thanks for the map Greysides.

Limestone Cowboy

blue5000 wrote: »

Does anyone know why S Galway-N Clare is so bad? Thanks for the map Greysides.

That's over around carron, I said it on here a few months ago that there has been a huge amount of reactors in that area recently. Most herds have gone down at some stage over the last few years with big numbers. As for the cause, your guess is as good as mine.

greysides

When it's an area problem I always suspect wildlife.

huey1975

tanko wrote: »

3.12% of cattle tested so far this year have been positive on the skin test. In West Wicklow the figure is 12%.

Just because you read something on the internet, you shouldn't quote it as a fact. Those figures are incorrect and that is a fact.

Sheep breeder

huey1975 wrote: »

Just because you read something on the internet, you shouldn't quote it as a fact. Those figures are incorrect and that is a fact.

A wild statement to make!!! How sure are you of this are living in wicklow with a constant TB problem.

huey1975

It's not a wild statement at all. Do you believe that 12 of every hundred cattle in west Wicklow is a reactor? Just because I know more about this subject than you, you shouldn't be embarrassed about your ignorance of this subject, but you should stop posting here until you educate yourself a bit more on the subject.
I'm not sure if you struggle with the epidemiology or just the basic maths, either way you should quit when you are behind

ABlur

blue5000 wrote: »

Does anyone know why S Galway-N Clare is so bad? Thanks for the map Greysides.

A theory about the increased incidence in south West Clare is that a lot of farms had 'ineligible land' found by the Dept eye in the sky in 2014-15. To overcome penalties the diggers were put to work to clear the scrub etc that was making the land ineligible. In the process badgers were moved from their habitats and a spike in TB followed.

jack o shea

The department, a great bunch of lads...

Sheep breeder

huey1975 wrote: »

It's not a wild statement at all. Do you believe that 12 of every hundred cattle in west Wicklow is a reactor? Just because I know more about this subject than you, you shouldn't be embarrassed about your ignorance of this subject, but you should stop posting here until you educate yourself a bit more on the subject.
I'm not sure if you struggle with the epidemiology or just the basic maths, either way you should quit when you are behind

I must apologise I did not realise I was talking to a vi in Nass Dvo with first hand knowledge of TB in the west wicklow DED

greysides

I worked in Cavan when the two-thirds of it that supported cattle was a black spot area, and the entirety of Co. Monaghan was a blackspot area. I never came across a 12% reactor rate. A rate of 12 APT is more feasible but still horrendous. A few years ago the national rate was 3-4 APT, IIRC.

Nekarsulm

Anyway, OP, I would get rid of her ASAP. About 8 years ago I had a cow inconclusive. The vet said it was up to me, but she was a real pet of a Rotbunt cross. As quiet a cow as I ever had. You could go to the gate and call her, and she would bring them all with her to the yard.
So I give her a chance. She went clear for the next three years, not as much as a mark at the injection site ever.
The fourth year, she had a lump the size of an egg on her. 40% of the rest went down at that test. When she went to the factory, she was so rotten with TB, she was skipped.
Blood tests on the remainder brought the total way over 50%, so depopulated.
Its F@@kin hard going out to the shed on the last day, and looking at the blood stained concrete where they shot the suck calves.

greysides

Took a bit of finding.....