New House Design Review please :)

magnethead

Hi If you had the time or care to review this design, please do. I've seen the internet brain at work before, and there are some very good heads out there.
I'm looking for any Ideas to make it more interesting from an Exterior point of View
We have made countless drafts until we arranged the inside just the way we like it! But please point out if there is a major bo boo there too.
It has being designed from the Inside out.....so we've ended up with a rectangular box, with a bay window area thrown on as a 'feature'
Thanks

Any questions just ask

JimmyMW

magnethead wrote: »

Hi If you had the time or care to review this design, please do. I've seen the internet brain at work before, and there are some very good heads out there.
I'm looking for any Ideas to make it more interesting from an Exterior point of View
We have made countless drafts until we arranged the inside just the way we like it! But please point out if there is a major bo boo there too.
It has being designed from the Inside out.....so we've ended up with a rectangular box, with a bay window area thrown on as a 'feature'
Thanks

Any questions just ask <snip-pic removed>

The first thing is to identify where is south? Also you have a lot of rooms with no windows or little or no light.

I suspect you are trying to design your "dream house" without a site, if my suspicions are correct, you are wasting your time. You need to go through a process, get a site, if your eligible to get planning on that site get an architect to design a suitable house for the site in question within your budget.

Angry bird

Downstairs WC re both plumbing and ventilation should be to an exterior wall, under the stairs maybe. Upstairs toilets need windows. Design makes sense if garage faces north and living areas face south. If sufficient room, one downstairs room should be readily covetable to a bedroom with wash up/ shower in case getting up a stairs is a problem for whatever reason in future.

Gumbo

Move the WC to get a window. If even only for natural ventilation instead of an extractor fan.
Fire door required between garage and plant room and also plant room and under stairs.
Replace the single leaf entrance door to a door with glazed screens both sides. Can't get enough free light into an entrance hall.
Move door to home office to the entrance hall. Should not have to pass through the sitting room to enter the home office.

Kitchen looks tight and an awkward shape/layout for such a big house been designed from the ground up.

Where will the flue from the stove go? How will you extract that through the middle of the house?

I've only looked at down stairs so I'll look at upstairs now.

fits

Have you considered things like access, orientation, sun path, where services will go? Its really not advisable to design a house without considering these things. Look up Kilkenny rural design guide. Lots of good information in it.

joebloggs123

What sort of room is that between the utility and the garage? I would be looking for a bigger utility room than what you have on your plans there and would consider makign the two into one larger room. I cannot read the writing so don't know what that other room is, it may be important to you.
I would have a door from the library/office into the main hallway.
If that's the front of your house then you have only one window on the entire front side which would look weird. Have you plans drawn up for the exterior or are you just sketching ideas without having gone through an architect?

Gumbo

joebloggs123 wrote: »

What sort of room is that between the utility and the garage? I would be looking for a bigger utility room than what you have on your plans there and would consider makign the two into one larger room. I cannot read the writing so don't know what that other room is, it may be important to you.
I would have a door from the library/office into the main hallway.
If that's the front of your house then you have only one window on the entire front side which would look weird. Have you plans drawn up for the exterior or are you just sketching ideas without having gone through an architect?

Plant room.

db

Other than what has been said above

Move the stove so the chimney lines up with a wall upstairs, otherwise put it on an outside wall.
Why are you putting the garage on the front of the house with the garage door facing the front door?
It would not cost much to have the upstairs extend out over the garage.
Keep the wall straight between the kitchen and utility room, as it is the utility is just a corridor.
Downstairs toilet is probably not big enough for wheelchair access.
Master bedroom looks very small as it is currently laid out.
Making the top of the stairs more central would allow you to reduce the size of the landing.

efbeef

Pretty much agree with everyone above!

Aspect of the house is important to plan around and flue going through the middle of the bedroom 1 is a but of a red flag too!

Have you though about a heating system? Air to water pumps can be large and the fact you have no hotpress you would have to put a water tank in your plant room too (ours is 300lt and nearly 6 foot high and a meter thick) as a result is the plant room functional for what you need?

You need engineer/architect's advise.

magnethead

Guys, THanks for all the replies and advice!! I see now I provided a hopeless amount of information to you
THe land was a gift from my Dad so we lucked out there!
I'm putting up a new pic here, I haven't used autocad in about 10 years, so trying to figure out how to draw this in a 'legit' copy of solidworks broke my heart...took about 2 hours to knock this out LOL....Finished off a few touches with paint. I'll try putting together some 3D models with 'Chief Architect'...seems to be the most recommended one on the net for nubes.

THAT little dip in the wall, at the sitting room south facing wall, is a 4m floor to ceiling, sliding door

JimmyMW: you are right, we forgot about the upstairs toilet windows

Angry bird: THe interior toilet, I should have mentioned we are going for as aittight a house as possible with ICF, and then have a HRV system installed, we plan to drop a central access on the rear wall of that toilet which will be in line with the Master Bedroom toilet upstairs.....anyway, we'll sort it out so that it's well ventilated...does this solve that problem?

kceire: THanks for the advice on the Firedoors, I didn't know that and good Idea about the Side windows on the front door, we were toying with the idea of extending the roof of the garage over the front door area and stick in a corner support column to give the area some cover from the weather...but maybe that would seriously kill the light, the window above the stairs might not provide enough light for the Hall area.

fits: Thanks, we actaully had a totally square house design to begin with, and then decided to stretch it out into more rectangular when someone told us about the sun path philosophy ;p haha

joebloggs123: Thanks, the Library, is an Old age room, with the donstairs toilet having a shower, that's the Idea. THe reason we have the door off the sitting room, is because, we want to build a bookcase door/secret door where it just swings into the Library space(seperate space from the huge open plan area) , I've heard people moaning about open plan, that they can't get privacy so that the main reason why this room exists, It's very unlikely I'll ever work from home, or need a home office.
Yes I'm just sketching Ideas at this stage without having employeed an architect.

db: I have no issue with a nice garage door facing the front door I hear you on the stove flue, but I don't think I could move it at this stage to line it up with a wall, we'll see. THe Idea behind the stove is one of those, see through on both sides enclave, you know, where a nice stone surround is built, around the stove, maybe flour to ceiling, but you'll be able to see clear through the stove area, not as easily once the stove is installed ;p
THe house is big enough already, I couldn't see us cleaning any more space, extending over the garage would be too much.
THe reason the wall is bent between the Kitchen and utility room, is because the wife wants to stick one of those american fridges into that space :rolleyes: I agress the Utility, is a bit of a coridor, just like my aunties house 50M away. I'll have to get some examples of wheelchairs access toilets, I thought the room would be big enough, It's currently 3.61 M2
Master Bedroom has rediculous side walk in wardrobe, again wife, don't think further expalination is needed...Hopefully this is an example of 'Newbie' designer stuff. but you think the bedroom is small? I'll take another look, I though it was ok.
Agree, the landing area is definately a bit on the Large size! Might brign the toilet back into that area.

efbeef: It's weird, I've seen a few examples on Houzz of Flue going through bedrooms, It doesn't bother me as much as it does to most people I've mentioned it to.
I was thinking about all the Air-to-water/ (Geothermal way too expensive)....when I look at the costs, a standard Gas boiler, with underfloor, one temp sensor for low cycling actaully seems to be the best option.
I'm hoping to put in a rainwater system, for washing machine and toilets, Pump would be in the plant room too, pumping to atic space, along that outside wall.
Do you think 6.72 M2 is not big enough to include everything needed for a plant room? breaker board, Hotwater tank, Gas Boiler..etc?

Please see site layout here, and feel free to ask more questions ......Oh yeah, the Big Circle is a no build zone(Biocycle tank)
THe Heavy Black line represents a nice Block wall, 9Foot at the back,(hopefully build a shed up against that), Neighbour over one side, picket fence with my sister on the other side.
tight enough here for space ;p
Thank you all

JimmyMW

The first thing you need to do is speak with the planner for the area, 2 main reasons
1. You may not be eligible for planning on the site if you are outside a development boundary which I suspect you are.
2. The planner will give you some guidance as to what type of house will be permitted on the site, there is no point in spending time designing a 2 story house if a single story is all that will be permitted. Additionally if outside a development boundary, flat fronted with one single finish is the norm now, ie all stone or stone etc.

magnethead

Hi Jimmy,
THanks for more feedback, you said I was outside the development boundry? Is that a boundry on the actual site?

This site is in an urban environment, last little plot to be developed in the whole area. It's just a lane down from a main street.
The Funny thing is, I could build a house like a space ship and get planning here!! I know that sounds extreme, but you should see my neighbours houses!
My Sister next door has an ultra modern contemporary house, block cantilevering over another block(2 sotry), The neighbour on the other side has a monster L block house/hotel (500m2) squeezed inbetween 2 boundry walls, the other house, is an old fashion, highly detailed, old estate looking house(all these houses large two story), the next one, is a 1960's flat roofed, sprawling bungalow..
Over my back wall, is a 2 story apartment block!

My sister met the planners before when she was building 2 years ago, and basically, just stay behind the Green line (6M in) and stick in a Biocycle!!

Honestly, this house should it be built, will be the most boring, ordinary looking house on the street.
That's why I came here, for some Ideas /critical observations

Gumbo

magnethead wrote: »

Hi Jimmy,
THanks for more feedback, you said I was outside the development boundry? Is that a boundry on the actual site?

This site is in an urban environment, last little plot to be developed in the whole area. It's just a lane down from a main street.
The Funny thing is, I could build a house like a space ship and get planning here!! I know that sounds extreme, but you should see my neighbours houses!
My Sister next door has an ultra modern contemporary house, block cantilevering over another block(2 sotry), The neighbour on the other side has a monster L block house/hotel (500m2) squeezed inbetween 2 boundry walls, the other house, is an old fashion, highly detailed, old estate looking house(all these houses large two story), the next one, is a 1960's flat roofed, sprawling bungalow..
Over my back wall, is a 2 story apartment block!

My sister met the planners before when she was building 2 years ago, and basically, just stay behind the Green line (6M in) and stick in a Biocycle!!

Honestly, this house should it be built, will be the most boring, ordinary looking house on the street.
That's why I came here, for some Ideas /critical observations

Any pics of the adjoining houses?
Maybe the planner will want modern contemporary to blend in?

magnethead

The telephone post your looking at here, is in front of the plot,
you can see the huge house on the left, and the old design house up on the right, It's out of date, so you need to pull out of street view and see the satellite view (which is more recent and has the sisters house on it)

THis field you see here is split in 2 equal parts
Snip

JimmyMW

magnethead wrote: »

Hi Jimmy,
THanks for more feedback, you said I was outside the development boundry? Is that a boundry on the actual site?

This site is in an urban environment, last little plot to be developed in the whole area. It's just a lane down from a main street.
The Funny thing is, I could build a house like a space ship and get planning here!! I know that sounds extreme, but you should see my neighbours houses!
My Sister next door has an ultra modern contemporary house, block cantilevering over another block(2 sotry), The neighbour on the other side has a monster L block house/hotel (500m2) squeezed inbetween 2 boundry walls, the other house, is an old fashion, highly detailed, old estate looking house(all these houses large two story), the next one, is a 1960's flat roofed, sprawling bungalow..
Over my back wall, is a 2 story apartment block!

My sister met the planners before when she was building 2 years ago, and basically, just stay behind the Green line (6M in) and stick in a Biocycle!!

Honestly, this house should it be built, will be the most boring, ordinary looking house on the street.
That's why I came here, for some Ideas /critical observations

Fair enough, normally sites gifted are in a rural area and formally formed part of a farm etc, hence why I was asking.

However the first thing is to still approach the planners and engage with them.

Gumbo

magnethead wrote: »

The telephone post your looking at here, is in front of the plot,
you can see the huge house on the left, and the old design house up on the right, It's out of date, so you need to pull out of street view and see the satellite view (which is more recent and has the sisters house on it)

THis field you see here is split in 2 equal parts
[URL snip [/URL]

Very nice plot.
I like the modern house there though.

magnethead

I hear Pre planning can be a waste of time, considering my sister should have got equal advice on what she can do
Sure I might do one, just to get the check box

Quick word of warning for you in relation to your pre-planning meeting!
As I have discovered to my cost they are a waste of time as whatever you are told is non-binding when it comes to actually getting your your planning permission. Earlier this year we were given some specific info regarding sightlines required at a pre-planning meeting. On the basis of this we engaged an arctitect etc and applied to the Council. To our surprise we got a request for further info which totally contradicted what we were told at the initial meeting. Three months later we are still fighting with them over this and still no planning permission.
Considering most Councils almost insist on a pre-planning meeting people really need to be aware that they should take what they are told with a serious pinch of salt!
Click to expand...
[/INDENT]
As a professional who attends pre-planning meetings on nearly a weekly basis, i completely agree with this statement. You will learn much more from consulting a competent professional who has vast experience of planning in your county than you will from a planner. It must be remembered that its government policy not to give planners long contracts (generally 18 months max). Therefore they have to move around between local authorities quite often. This in turn means theyre can sometimes not be up to speed on development plans or council policy. Also, some councils dont have area planners, and there is also no guarantee that the planner you meet will be the planner that decides your application.
It is useful from an agents point of view to have the planner explain councils policies to the 'lay person'. But they are legally prevented from giving any kind of indication as to what a decision may be. You really have to read between the lines for statements such as 'may not be favourable to...' or 'that complies with policy'... etc...

magnethead

kceire wrote: »

Replace the single leaf entrance door to a door with glazed screens both sides. Can't get enough free light into an entrance hall.

The double doors from the main open-plan area, will be glass doors with wooden frames, the Stairs is completely open, to allow light down from the Window facing it. The plan is for the Front door to have windows in it, with the possible addition of screens at one side anyway, like you said.

looksee

Not sure I would want the exit from the garage so near the front door. Someone is reversing out of the garage and someone else walks out the front door - or in the case of a child, dashes out of the front door.

Angry bird

Infill site, principle of a house absolutely fine, no need for pre-planning. My comment was only re ventilation, re downstairs WC. Council obviously require an on site treatment plant before discharge to public sewer, must be an issue with capacity or how the public sewer is working. I don't have any particular issue re the design, just engage an architect to get the most out of the site your have and I don't mean fancy materials and look at me architecture, just good internal layout that makes the most of natural sunlight and obviously site constraints. Build up to the green line, unless you need lots of parking. Upper south side balcony may not make it past planning re undue overlooking, but you could simply say, we can omit this by condition if an issue for the Council. If it's zoned lands, and I'm assuming it is, then need exemption from Part V (social housing), and throw that in at the same time as the planning application. I'm aso going to assume they will want on site soak pits re surface water attenuation. Have a good look at your sisters planning application and what the Council were and were not looking for. Good luck, you'll be grand.

magnethead

looksee : Sorry I should have mentioned, it's more of a man shed, I have loads of hobbies, Lot's of Brewing gear, welding gear tools, It'll be full of Cabinets and a big workbench....Might drive a car in when I'm working on it only.

Site was NOT big enough to have a separate shed so the best I could do was stick a plant room in the way so the wife can't get at me too easy.

Angry bird : Thanks, yes, we're not connected to the nearest treatment plant yet! I think they were supposed to break ground this month according to the papers on the connection and it could take 2 years, If I drag the arse out of the build, I might not need to install it at the end.
I'll talk to the sister about that 'social housing exemption'....she had an architect turn key her build


I'll come back here when, I have learned this Chief Arch business, and hopefully have some nice 3D visuals ;p install my 'legit' copy on a Window7 virtual machine as I type

fits

I know your house isn't in rural area but there are lots of good design tips in this. Well worth reading.
http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/eng/Publications/Council_Publications/Kilkenny_Rural_Design_Guide.10673.shortcut.html

fits

I know your house isn't in rural area but there are lots of good design tips in this. Well worth reading.
http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/eng/Publications/Council_Publications/Kilkenny_Rural_Design_Guide.10673.shortcut.html

Water John

Not to put you off track, just clarification from others. Is a toilet under the stairs no longer allowed? Will they have to have a renewal element to the building?

Some interesting reasons for some design features. Designed for the reality of family life!!

Upstairs, could you put Ensuite, WIW and Bedroom running from left to right. I'd say one bath is nearly one too many in modern houses.

Gumbo

Water John wrote: »

Not to put you off track, just clarification from others. Is a toilet under the stairs no longer allowed? Will they have to have a renewal element to the building?

Some interesting reasons for some design features. Designed for the reality of family life!!

Upstairs, could you put Ensuite, WIW and Bedroom running from left to right. I'd say one bath is nearly one too many in modern houses.

WC can be anywhere, even under the stairs as it can still comply with TGD M.
I think one bath is a requirement, especially for bathing young kids.

rampantbunny

There's an existing thread on the forum detailing what people who have already built would do differently if given the chance. You should read it if you haven't already..good deal of insightful comments.

Some comments that stood out to me were re. utility room - whereby most were unanimous that their utilities were too small (useless-ities).
This is just my opinion, but I'd look into combining the util and plant room into one and also move the door for the plant room from the hallway. Put it in the back hallway/utility. As your stair well is the link from ground floor to upper/bedrooms the last thing you want is noise from the plant room escaping upstairs. A solid block wall would be much better there (if you are going block built).

Also, if you could work it, I'd have the back door in a separate lobby entrance entirely. Having to walk through the util on the way in means you can't leave things lying around (if you are house proud). Utilities are generally the least tidy areas of a house (with the exception of kids playroom).
This would also serve to move noise away again, this time from the kitchen (I'm presuming your washer, dryer is in the current util you've drawn).

Again re noise; if you moved your plant room further towards the left corner of the garage. It would be moving it away from under your master bedroom. But it mightn't suit if you have a water tank in the plant room. Think the correct placement of water tank is somewhere central, equidistant to all sinks/taps etc.


Lastly, re. flue run through bedroom; have you looked into the possibility of running the flue to the ground floor ceiling and then running it horizontally across ceiling, exiting at side of house? I have this done in mine (double sided gas fire), but there are limits to the length of flue possible with different configurations.


Oh, and lastly, lastly...where you have 'balcony', I'd consider glazing over the dining area instead...the more natural light the better.

magnethead

WOW, that was solid insightful advise!! Thank you so much!!
I'm half way through the Chief Architect design now, I'll move that door to the Utility room as access, I think that's what you meant, I can't see the Utility and Plant room being open together as one room? can you, Pump for rainwater, water tank, elctrical panel all sitting in the one space with Food shelves...
The washing machine will be in the upstairs toilet. The Utility room, was just meant to be an extra sink, and some food/kitchen item storage.

I take it the thread you referred to was this one, It's a sticky (I'm going to read it tonight)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055263035&page=19

Another note, I'll put in what you suggested, which I take it to be basically a conservatory roof, on that round section of wall, to let more light in.
I'm concerned about airtightness, would a glass ceiling be harder to make airtight? I know, it won't add any thermal value either ;p

I never even thought you could do that with a Flue! Seriously, a 90 degree bend, I thoght that was breaking the law of physics It would reduce flow by 50% right at that bend, but there might be enough left to make it to the nearest wall... Since you have actually built like that, I have to ask, how is the exist point on your wall? Do you get any soot build up? any darkening of your outside finish? You can see from the drawing, that the exist would be right beside the proposed conservatory roof if we were to go that way.

Thanks again for your excellent comments

rampantbunny

magnethead wrote: »

WOW, that was solid insightful advise!! Thank you so much!!
I'm half way through the Chief Architect design now, I'll move that door to the Utility room as access, I think that's what you meant, I can't see the Utility and Plant room being open together as one room? can you, Pump for rainwater, water tank, elctrical panel all sitting in the one space with Food shelves...
The washing machine will be in the upstairs toilet. The Utility room, was just meant to be an extra sink, and some food/kitchen item storage.

I take it the thread you referred to was this one, It's a sticky (I'm going to read it tonight)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055263035&page=19

Another note, I'll put in what you suggested, which I take it to be basically a conservatory roof, on that round section of wall, to let more light in.
I'm concerned about airtightness, would a glass ceiling be harder to make airtight? I know, it won't add any thermal value either ;p

I never even thought you could do that with a Flue! Seriously, a 90 degree bend, I thoght that was breaking the law of physics It would reduce flow by 50% right at that bend, but there might be enough left to make it to the nearest wall... Since you have actually built like that, I have to ask, how is the exist point on your wall? Do you get any soot build up? any darkening of your outside finish? You can see from the drawing, that the exist would be right beside the proposed conservatory roof if we were to go that way.

Thanks again for your excellent comments

If your util was only for an extra sink and some food shelves, I'd ask myself do I really need that sink? Why not go with a separate back door entrance, and bring that freed up utility space into the kitchen behind the WC. Make it a walk in larder..executed well these bring a certain wow factor.
See attached.

Re. the flue; I have a balanced flue gas fire. It is vertical for 1-2m and then horizontal for 4. This is almost the max permitted by the manufacturer. The fire is not in operation yet so I can't comment on how well it expels exhaust fumes and dirt - time will tell I suppose (fire is really only an expensive feature so I don't foresee there being much soot build up).
I would have preferred to have the flue go straight up through the room upstairs as you have shown (although mine would have been abutting a wall and I could have built it in) but the cost of the extra flue and vents for roof put me off..plus the flue would have exited the roof at the front of the house..so aesthetics would be compromised).
Ultimately, you need to look into the system you intend installing. You might not have the option to bend the flue as I have. Manufacturers will publish docs online indicating what flue runs are permissible.


Re. glazing over dining area; yes, no reason this can't be airtight. But depending on the this glazing can be costly. You could put roof here and some long individual skylights (or fixed glazed units). If I had the cash, I'd have it mostly glass though. One thing to consider if glazing, depending on your orientation be mindful of that space overheating...so consider how would might have shade when needed.



PS...you can get 3 sided gas fires (glass on 3 sides) in case you weren't aware. This would be a cool option if you wanted to move the fire towards the right wall...much easier and cheaper flue run also.

magnethead

I'll ask the wife about that 'need' for a second sink

I should have mentioned that the stove has to be solid fuel which will mean a lot more soot being expelled, I'll ask about the flue configurations from one of the companies and come back here I want something that can heat the house, if the world turns zombie apocalypse on us
Though it looks like with all the global warming, cooling is going to be the problem.


I do like the glazing idea, I can't imagine what we could do for shade, as the rest of the house is a box, no overhangs maybe just a solar reflectant screen that could be rolled down under the glass might be an option.

I didn't know about 3 sided Glass stoves but, I thought of moving it close to the right wall, it's just that it would be too close to the Dining room table at that stage, It might be uncomfortably hot at that distance?


UPDATE: Stove company says that flue config (90 bend) is possible with gas, but no way with solid Fuel

Water John

We had a second sink in the utility. Actually threw it out, waste of space IMO.

Not so sure about glass overhead. An awful lot of people have covered or altered glass roofed conservatories. They get too hot and can be uncomfortable under blazing sun.

rampantbunny

magnethead wrote: »

I didn't know about 3 sided Glass stoves but, I thought of moving it close to the right wall, it's just that it would be too close to the Dining room table at that stage, It might be uncomfortably hot at that distance?

Not a stove..a gas fire. They're not necessarily something you'd install to heat your house AFAIK..more for bling than practicality. I think you'll be limited with solid fuel stoves but I'm no expert in the field.

If going with glazing over your dining area, bring an elec cable to that area also. Some of the skylight companies have optional motors for window opening/closing ..I'd be surprised if they didn't have motorized blinds also.