D1-e licence some questions.

flazio

Hi folks, I have a full D1 driving licence which I use with Civil Defence. The bus has a hitch on the back of it and I'm considering getting a licence to pull a trailer with the bus.
Couple of questions.
1, Do I need to get a B-e licence first?
2, if not then would a D1-e licence cover me to drive a B licence vehicle with a trailer? (like the car licence covering categories below it even when you've never driven one)

Thanks.

neris

B+e won't cover you to drive a D. You need to get a D/D1+ E for the bus and it will cover you to drive car and trailer then.

cantdecide

flazio wrote: »

Hi folks, I have a full D1 driving licence which I use with Civil Defence. The bus has a hitch on the back of it and I'm considering getting a licence to pull a trailer with the bus.
Couple of questions.

The annoying thing about smaller group 2 categories is that they're nearly the same hassle as the big categories to get.

Firstly, do you have any other categories? A lot of middle aged drivers in Ireland have AM, B, BE, W, C1 and C1E and don't realise. For example, if you're one of these older drivers that passed their test in the 80s and you already had C1E and passed the D1 test, you would automatically receive the D1E category.

Secondly, you can tow a trailer with a gross weight of up to 750kg without any additional trailer categories. The D1E category will allow you to tow a trailer of up to 3500kg.

flazio wrote: »

1, Do I need to get a B-e licence first?

No, as stated above.

flazio wrote: »

2, if not then would a D1-e licence cover me to drive a B licence vehicle with a trailer? (like the car licence covering categories below it even when you've never driven one).

Again, if all you have is B, you can already tow a trailer up to 750kg. The really annoying thing is that the trailer rules is that if you pass the D1E test, you will still be restricted to a 750KG trailer in the car. It doesn't make a tack of sense but this is the way it is. The same is true of C1E- you can hold the C1E licence and drive a small lorry with a large trailer but if you get into a car, you're still restricted to a 750kg trailer. However, it gets interesting if you pass the CE test, you will then get the BE category as an automatic entitlement.

neris

cantdecide wrote: »

Again, if all you have is B, you can already tow a trailer up to 750kg. The really annoying thing is that the trailer rules is that if you pass the D1E test, you will still be restricted to a 750KG trailer in the car. It doesn't make a tack of sense but this is the way it is. The same is true of C1E- you can hold the C1E licence and drive a small lorry with a large trailer but if you get into a car, you're still restricted to a 750kg trailer. However, it gets interesting if you pass the CE test, you will then get the BE category as an automatic entitlement.

Its a pedantic system. Ive B C & D licenses and got a C+E learner permit, when i was in the ndls i asked them to stick B+E on the permit aswell and was told No, because Id never done a car theory test they couldnt put it on even though they were about to give me a permit for a 40ft permit and a hell of alot heavier then anything a car could ever tow

cantdecide

neris wrote: »

Its a pedantic system. Ive B C & D licenses and got a C+E learner permit, when i was in the ndls i asked them to stick B+E on the permit aswell and was told No, because Id never done a car theory test they couldnt put it on even though they were about to give me a permit for a 40ft permit and a hell of alot heavier then anything a car could ever tow

I can assure you they were wrong (as they often are). Cat B is a prerequisite for C&D categories. If you presented them with a C or D theory test, it is the same as handing them a B theory test from the perspective.

neris

cantdecide wrote: »

I can assure you they were wrong (as they often are). Cat B is a prerequisite for C&D categories. If you presented them with a C or D theory test, it is the same as handing them a B theory test from the perspective.

i wouldnt be surprised they were wrong tbh. i tried twice this year my most recent being a few weeks ago getting my C+E permit.

donkey balls

neris wrote: »

Its a pedantic system. Ive B C & D licenses and got a C+E learner permit, when i was in the ndls i asked them to stick B+E on the permit aswell and was told No, because Id never done a car theory test they couldnt put it on even though they were about to give me a permit for a 40ft permit and a hell of alot heavier then anything a car could ever tow

As the other poster mentioned it looks like the NDLS haven't a clue about the categories, I never did a test for the B+E or even the old EC1 but was giving them when I got the full artic license.
Know a lad who drove buses for a while before moving on to the trucks again he never did any test with a bus and trailer and he has them on the license.

cantdecide

donkey balls wrote: »

As the other poster mentioned it looks like the NDLS haven't a clue about the categories, I never did a test for the B+E or even the old EC1 but was giving them when I got the full artic license.
Know a lad who drove buses for a while before moving on to the trucks again he never did any test with a bus and trailer and he has them on the license.

The theory test and permit entitlement rules in Ireland (and each other EU state) have changed repeatedly and continue to change in terms of 'if I ask for learner cat x, will I also get learner category y without asking for it or is there another theory test needed. However, the full licence entitlements regime has been somewhat standard across Europe for a decades (places like the UK back in the 80s and before was quite different and as there's a lot of traffic between there and here, a lot of confusion has arose and we became more European and they continued to fly solo). The question is what do you receive as an *automatic entitlement for passing the test

It's a little tricky to explain but in a nutshell, it's modular so you don't have to pass all 8 tests seperately- you can skip a step here and there if you're ambitious. If you have start with truck and trailer categories and you then pass a bus test, you will also get the bus and trailer category on the back of having a truck and trailer full category. However, if you get the bus and trailer categories and pass a truck test, you won't get the truck and trailer categories without doing a truck and trailer test.

For example, if all you have is a B (and W) full licence if you pass a test in;

C1: B, W, C1
C: B, W. C, C1

At this point you may wish to get some trailer categories, so may now can skip the C1E test and go straight to CE (you also receive the smaller categories as well as BE as an automatic entitlement if you have the CE category).

So if you pass;

CE: B, W, C, C1, CE, C1E, BE

C1E: B, W, C, C1, C1E

So............ here's the money shot. If you have CE, and you pass the D test, you receive D, D1, DE and D1E,

If you pass these tests in this order, B, C, CE and lastly, D, you get B, W, BE all 8 group 2 categories from zero. This is the most efficient way to do it.


*You receive it automatically; nothing to do with transmission

Del2005

cantdecide wrote: »

The annoying thing about smaller group 2 categories is that they're nearly the same hassle as the big categories to get.

Firstly, do you have any other categories? A lot of middle aged drivers in Ireland have AM, B, BE, W, C1 and C1E and don't realise. For example, if you're one of these older drivers that passed their test in the 80s and you already had C1E and passed the D1 test, you would automatically receive the D1E category.

IIRC if an endorsement is gone from your licence for more than 10 years you loose it. So if you passed in the 80s and only have B on your licence you are stuck with B, if you got the EB, D1,C1 added and kept them on your licence you still have them.

cantdecide wrote: »

Secondly, you can tow a trailer with a gross weight of up to 750kg without any additional trailer categories. The D1E category will allow you to tow a trailer of up to 3500kg.



No, as stated above.



Again, if all you have is B, you can already tow a trailer up to 750kg. The really annoying thing is that the trailer rules is that if you pass the D1E test, you will still be restricted to a 750KG trailer in the car. It doesn't make a tack of sense but this is the way it is. The same is true of C1E- you can hold the C1E licence and drive a small lorry with a large trailer but if you get into a car, you're still restricted to a 750kg trailer. However, it gets interesting if you pass the CE test, you will then get the BE category as an automatic entitlement.

On a B you can tow either a ≤750kg trailer, which means you can have a 4.25t combination, or if the MAN of the trailer is >750kg you can tow upto 3.5 once the tow vehicle is rated for the MAN of the trailer. With C(1) or D(1) you can only tow 750kg.

cantdecide

Del2005 wrote: »

IIRC if an endorsement is gone from your licence for more than 10 years you loose it.

You mean entitlement? Then yes, you can lose any entitlement if it's off your licence for more than ten years. However, there are a lot of drivers that through miscommunication or misunderstanding or any other reason might have provided sufficient documents to keep a category active even though they didn't want or need it.

For example, a driver that happened to have a medical condition that required them to provide a medical report and they're only concerned about their B categories - many times the doctor would sign their patient of to hold [their] group 2 categories. So a middle aged banker might have their group 2 categories reissued even though they may not have the slightest interest in using them. It's surprisingly common. Their lots of little old ladies that have current entitlements to artics- it's not a myth. That's why I always recommend that people always make sure they enquire about their entitlements with the NDLS.

QUOTE=Del2005;101728863]So if you passed in the 80s and only have B on your licence you are stuck with B, if you got the EB, D1,C1 added and kept them on your licence you still have them.[/QUOTE]

Yes. Their are also many more drivers that have lost very useful entitlements because the motor tax offices seemed to have a policy of only issuing cat B (or probably only issuing what the customer requested on the form regardless of their actual entitlements)

Del2005 wrote: »

On a B you can tow either a ≤750kg trailer, which means you can have a 4.25t combination,

Yes sir.

Del2005 wrote: »

or if the MAN of the trailer is >750kg you can tow upto 3.5 once the tow vehicle is rated for the MAN of the trailer. With C(1) or D(1) you can only tow 750kg.

You do need BE to carry in excess of 750kg. In fact, if you held BE before 2013, when you come to renew your licence, the notation 79.06 will be added to BE to denote that no weight restriction applies (from a licencing perspective). A driver who earned the entitlement after 2013 will be restricted to 3500kg on the trailer and 3500kg on the towing vehicle.

Del2005

cantdecide wrote: »

You do need BE to carry in excess of 750kg.

Not according to the RSA

A category B driving licence authorises you to drive a car, van or 4 x 4 which has a maximum mass (as specified by the manufacturer) of not more than 3,500kg and is designed and constructed to carry no more than eight passengers in addition to the driver. You may tow a trailer with a maximum mass (again as specified by the manufacturer) not greater than 750kg, or where the maximum mass is more than 750kg, the combined maximum mass of the towing vehicle and the trailer is not greater than 3,500kg

parishsavings

cantdecide wrote: »

You do need BE to carry in excess of 750kg. In fact, if you held BE before 2013, when you come to renew your licence, the notation 79.06 will be added to BE to denote that no weight restriction applies (from a licencing perspective). A driver who earned the entitlement after 2013 will be restricted to 3500kg on the trailer and 3500kg on the towing vehicle.

Would I be correct in saying:

If you pass the CE test and receive BE by default that this is also an unrestricted BE. In other words it would be issued with the code 79.06
If you just go for BE test you would be restricted to 3500kg

Open to correction here, can anyone confirm?

cantdecide

parishsavings wrote: »

Would I be correct in saying:

If you pass the CE test and receive BE by default that this is also an unrestricted BE. In other words it would be issued with the code 79.06
If you just go for BE test you would be restricted to 3500kg

Open to correction here, can anyone confirm?

Every BE entitlement granted for the first time after Jan 2013 will be restricted to 3500kg+3500kg, regardless of whether it comes from a BE test or as a sub-category of passing the CE test.

In the real world, you may end up using your C1E or CE categories to drive a larger vehicle/ trailer combination but remember that if you ever lost your higher categories through neglect or a medical condition, for example, the restriction would apply to any driver who did not hold the BE entitlement prior to Jan 2013.

Silvera

cantdecide wrote: »

Every BE entitlement granted for the first time after Jan 2013 will be restricted to 3500kg+3500kg, regardless of whether it comes from a BE test or as a sub-category of passing the CE test

Thank you for your excellent posts above. However, you are incorrect in this instance.

I passed my CE test in 2014 and received the unrestricted BE category on my licence. My understanding is that the BE is only restricted if you simply do the BE test alone.

I did my tests in the following order - B, C, D1 and CE.
I now have the following categories - B, BE (unrestricted) C, D1, D1E, C1, C1E, CE.

cantdecide

Silvera wrote: »

Thank you for your excellent posts above. However, you are incorrect in this instance.

I passed my CE test in 2014 and received the unrestricted BE category on my licence. My understanding is that the BE is only restricted if you simply do the BE test alone.

I did my tests in the following order - B, C, D1 and CE.
I now have the following categories - B, BE (unrestricted) C, D1, D1E, C1, C1E, CE.

I have to eat crow on the above with regard to the 750kg thing. I have no idea why specify 750kg if the rules is simply any combination of vehicle and trailer up to 4250kg. If you ask the NDLS (who answer to the RSA), they will tell you straight out that without BE, the very biggest trailer you can tow is 750kg using your B licence. I know this because I looked into it with them (knowing a thing or two about commercial vehicles and being concerned about company vans).

However, in your case, unless you had a pre-existing BE full entitlement prior to 19/01/2013 (or your driver record shows the entitlement incorrectly from an incorrectly entered B test cert), you can simply put this down to an agent error and expect to see the notation disappear on renewal/ replacement. Simply put, if your BE start date (even as an auto entitlement under CE) is dated after 19/01/2013 and you have the 79.06 notation (trailer MAY exceed 3500kg) on it, this is simply an error; while you continue to maintain your C1E and CE categories, it's a non-issue.

If you ring the NDLS or the RSA and tell them, they'll tell you to return your card and it will be reissued without the notation regardless of the CE and C1E.

Vologda69

cantdecide wrote: »

I have to eat crow on the above with regard to the 750kg thing. I have no idea why specify 750kg if the rules is simply any combination of vehicle and trailer up to 4250kg. If you ask the NDLS (who answer to the RSA), they will tell you straight out that without BE, the very biggest trailer you can tow is 750kg using your B licence. I know this because I looked into it with them (knowing a thing or two about commercial vehicles and being concerned about company vans).

However, in your case, unless you had a pre-existing BE full entitlement prior to 19/01/2013 (or your driver record shows the entitlement incorrectly from an incorrectly entered B test cert), you can simply put this down to an agent error and expect to see the notation disappear on renewal/ replacement. Simply put, if your BE start date (even as an auto entitlement under CE) is dated after 19/01/2013 and you have the 79.06 notation (trailer MAY exceed 3500kg) on it, this is simply an error; while you continue to maintain your C1E and CE categories, it's a non-issue.

If you ring the NDLS or the RSA and tell them, they'll tell you to return your card and it will be reissued without the notation regardless of the CE and C1E.

100% correct.

brian7cwl

Hello everyone ,

quick question

I have my C licence and my D licence

I have recently passed my CE test and have asked if i am entitled to DE licence as I already have my D licence and was told no is this correct??

I seen someone on here saying if you have your D licence and Pass your CE test you will also get your DE licence is this correct?

Wishbone Ash

brian7cwl wrote: »

Hello everyone ,

quick question

I have my C licence and my D licence

I have recently passed my CE test and have asked if i am entitled to DE licence as I already have my D licence and was told no is this correct??

I seen someone on here saying if you have your D licence and Pass your CE test you will also get your DE licence is this correct?

It's hard to keep up with the changes and the apparent differing opinions of the representatives of the NDLS.

When I passed the CE, I was given C1E, DE, D1E, and BE.

Vologda69

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It's hard to keep up with the changes and the apparent differing opinions of the representatives of the NDLS.

When I passed the CE, I was given C1E, DE, D1E, and BE.

This is correct. If you hold a full C and D licence, passing the CE gives all the trailer and associated subclasses i.e. BE, C1E, DE, D1E. Be sure to tick the categories on the application form and remind NDLS of your entitlements.

CiniO

brian7cwl wrote: »

Hello everyone ,

quick question

I have my C licence and my D licence

I have recently passed my CE test and have asked if i am entitled to DE licence as I already have my D licence and was told no is this correct??

I seen someone on here saying if you have your D licence and Pass your CE test you will also get your DE licence is this correct?

No, what they told you is incorrect.
You if you have B, C and D categories, and passed CE test, you are entitled to CE, BE, and DE.
And also C1E and D1E provided you have C1 and D1, but that's meaningless as your CE and DE cover you anyway to drive anything that would be covered by C1E and D1E..

CiniO

flazio wrote: »

Hi folks, I have a full D1 driving licence which I use with Civil Defence. The bus has a hitch on the back of it and I'm considering getting a licence to pull a trailer with the bus.
Couple of questions.
1, Do I need to get a B-e licence first?
2, if not then would a D1-e licence cover me to drive a B licence vehicle with a trailer? (like the car licence covering categories below it even when you've never driven one)

Thanks.

I know it's late, but to answer your questions.

1. No, you don't need BE licence first. You can sign straight for D1E test.
2. Yes, D1E will give you entitlements to BE. Make sure you ask to include BE on your licence.

brian7cwl

Thanks for the replies I kept on it and asked the RSA directly and having been told I am entitled to the DE once I have the D on my licence

neris

your not entitled to DE just cause you have D. You need to do another test with the bus and trailer this time to get the E part

CiniO

neris wrote: »

your not entitled to DE just cause you have D. You need to do another test with the bus and trailer this time to get the E part

If someone has B, C and D categories, and passes CE test, that person is automatically entitled to DE category as well as BE category. That's a fact.

brian7cwl

CiniO wrote: »

If someone has B, C and D categories, and passes CE test, that person is automatically entitled to DE category as well as BE category. That's a fact.

A Full D and Full CE gives you DE entitlements

CiniO

brian7cwl wrote: »

A Full D and Full CE gives you DE entitlements

Which is pretty much same as I wrote...

There is an exception though.
If you do CE first, and then pass your D test, then you are not entitled to DE.

brian7cwl

CiniO wrote: »

Which is pretty much same as I wrote...

There is an exception though.
If you do CE first, and then pass your D test, then you are not entitled to DE.

Are you sure about that ?

I applied for my D and CE on the same day after I passed the test I waited till I passed the CE and applied for both on same application and everything was fine

I know if you have a D and a C and you pass a DE you will not get a CE

CiniO

brian7cwl wrote: »

Are you sure about that ?

I applied for my D and CE on the same day after I passed the test I waited till I passed the CE and applied for both on same application and everything was fine

I know if you have a D and a C and you pass a DE you will not get a CE

That's what is says in the legislation.

I assume as you were applying for both D and CE at the same time, you were fine to get DE.

But if you had CE beforehand and only then applied for D, then you shouldn't get DE.
Obviously considering the mess motortax offices and then NDLS have with all that, I'm not saying it's impossible that someone got DE that way.

boardsuser1

Is there a driving school that does DE lessons?

I have BE, CE & DE.

I went from B to C to D to CE acquiring all the E classes as a result of getting the CE.

brian7cwl

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Is there a driving school that does DE lessons?

I have BE, CE & DE.

I went from B to C to D to CE acquiring all the E classes as a result of getting the CE.

I never heard of any schools doing DE, most buses you wouldn't need a trailer because you have plenty of storage space. I wouldn't like to reverse a bus around a corner with a trailer on it

boardsuser1

brian7cwl wrote: »

I never heard of any schools doing DE, most buses you wouldn't need a trailer because you have plenty of storage space. I wouldn't like to reverse a bus around a corner with a trailer on it

The only time i've known a bus to have a trailer on the back is if it's heading out on tour to Austria skiing or something similar.

I must try and find out for the sake of curiosity is it done by any schools of motoring.

brian7cwl

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

The only time i've known a bus to have a trailer on the back is if it's heading out on tour to Austria skiing or something similar.

I must try and find out for the sake of curiosity is it done by any schools of motoring.

But with a D licence you are still entitled to have a trailer up to 750 kg not alot but the clubs couldn't be that heave could they

boardsuser1

brian7cwl wrote: »

But with a D licence you are still entitled to have a trailer up to 750 kg not alot but the clubs couldn't be that heave could they

53 people off on a tour of Europe would do it, nationally I’ve never heard of it and i worked in the industry.

brian7cwl

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

53 people off on a tour of Europe would do it, nationally I’ve never heard of it and i worked in the industry.

If you know anyone looking a DE driver to drive them around sunny Spain playing golf give them my details haha

boardsuser1

brian7cwl wrote: »

If you know anyone looking a DE driver to drive them around sunny Spain playing golf give them my details haha

There was a guy who posted here a while back with a similar invite for a trip over to Liverpool.

boardsuser1

brian7cwl wrote: »

If you know anyone looking a DE driver to drive them around sunny Spain playing golf give them my details haha

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

There was a guy who posted here a while back with a similar invite for a trip over to Liverpool.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057767874

boardsuser1

In case anyone is planning a trip for a theory test or licence/learner permit tomorrow

https://twitter.com/CorkSafetyAlert/status/919669403796623360