Conditions and pay restoration for all public servants

smelly sock

Ok, So the decision by the Government to give Gardai what they wanted is unfair on the rest of the public servants who have been savaged by the recession.

I am a civil servant and hope that the unions will fight our corner on this.

We want full restoration to all working conditions and pay before the end of the year. Simple as that.

Stheno

smelly sock wrote: »

Ok, So the decision by the Government to give Gardai what they wanted is unfair on the rest of the public servants who have been savaged by the recession.

I am a civil servant and hope that the unions will fight our corner on this.

We want full restoration to all working conditions and pay before the end of the year. Simple as that.

And where do you think the billions required for that will come from?

helimachoptor

smelly sock wrote: »

Ok, So the decision by the Government to give Gardai what they wanted is unfair on the rest of the public servants who have been savaged by the recession.

I am a civil servant and hope that the unions will fight our corner on this.

We want full restoration to all working conditions and pay before the end of the year. Simple as that.

not sure boards.ie is going to rise up on your behalf tbh

smelly sock

Stheno wrote: »

And where do you think the billions required for that will come from?

I don't care. The cops didn't and look to have got what they wanted.

Now to make one thing clear,

I don't think for a minute that we will get full pay back. I can nearly accept that in a way.

But under the agreements during the down turn we were hit with an extra 27 minutes a day we must work, unpaid.

Giving us that back would be a huge start and would couldn't cost a huge upfront payment.

Ursus Horribilis

*gets popcorn

nhunter100

Ursus Horribilis wrote:

*gets popcorn

Should be fun alright.

nhunter100

smelly sock wrote:

But under the agreements during the down turn we were hit with an extra 27 minutes a day we must work, unpaid.

A whole 27 mins extra a day, that's terrible. Do you actually do anything during that 27 mins? Or just sit twiddling your thumbs like a lot of civil servants do.

smelly sock

It's not to much fun being caught up in it to be fair.

27 minutes a day may not sound like a lot but I think it equates to around 17 days a year unpaid.

Stheno

smelly sock wrote: »

It's not to much fun being caught up in it to be fair.

27 minutes a day may not sound like a lot but I think it equates to around 17 days a year unpaid.

How long was your new working day as a result? 9 to 530?

smelly sock

nhunter100 wrote: »

A whole 27 mins extra a day, that's terrible. Do you actually do anything during that 27 mins? Or just sit twiddling your thumbs like a lot of civil servants do.

That's a proper generalisation right there.

Have you ever been employed in the Civil Service?

If Civil Servants walked off the job if could as crippling if not more than AGS striking.

Yenwod

nhunter100 wrote: »

Or just sit twiddling your thumbs like a lot of civil servants do.

:rolleyes:

nhunter100

smelly sock wrote:

27 minutes a day may not sound like a lot but I think it equates to around 17 days a year unpaid.

Hopefully you don't work in a financial area. Assuming you work 47 weeks a year it's closer to 13.2 days.

smelly sock

Stheno wrote: »

How long was your new working day as a result? 9 to 530?

No Stheno,

With a 30 minutes mandatory lunch break it would work out 9-16:57.

Again might not sound like a lot but we signed up for certain conditions when we joined the service, positions that were open to everyone in the country but some didn't fancy it because of the low pay. AGS knew the conditions when they signed up also.

We were a soft target during the recession. But according to FG the country is recovered so surely our conditions should be looked at now.

irelandrover

smelly sock wrote: »

No Stheno,

With a 30 minutes mandatory lunch break it would work out 9-16:57.

Again might not sound like a lot but we signed up for certain conditions when we joined the service, positions that were open to everyone in the country but some didn't fancy it because of the low pay. AGS knew the conditions when they signed up also.

We were a soft target during the recession. But according to FG the country is recovered so surely our conditions should be looked at now.

You work less than 8 hours a day including lunch?

nhunter100

smelly sock wrote:

With a 30 minutes mandatory lunch break it would work out 9-16:57.

An 7 hour 57 min day? That's terrible. You deserve a pay rise.

smelly sock

nhunter100 wrote: »

Hopefully you don't work in a financial area. Assuming you work 47 weeks a year it's closer to 13.2 days.

Answer the question asked, Have you had first hand experience of civil servants thumb twidling?

Or is it just typical private sector arrogance/ superiority complex.

It wasn't the PS that got the country into the mess it's in.

The ironic thing about your financial area comment is that it was the banks and developers who couldn't count that got us into this mess.

MeatTwoVeg

smelly sock wrote:

I don't think for a minute that we will get full pay back. I can nearly accept that in a way.

Well that's terribly generous of you.

Donal55

It could be time to renew the passport. I sniff strikes around the corner.

nhunter100

smelly sock wrote:

Answer the question asked, Have you had first hand experience of civil servants thumb twidling?

Yes I have, married to one.

smelly sock

irelandrover wrote: »

You work less than 8 hours a day including lunch?

Including lunch it's 7:57 minutes.

Stheno

smelly sock wrote: »

No Stheno,

With a 30 minutes mandatory lunch break it would work out 9-16:57.

Again might not sound like a lot but we signed up for certain conditions when we joined the service, positions that were open to everyone in the country but some didn't fancy it because of the low pay. AGS knew the conditions when they signed up also.

We were a soft target during the recession. But according to FG the country is recovered so surely our conditions should be looked at now.

So 7 hours 27 mins a day excluding lunch? Any tea breaks in the morning?

Less than 37 and a half hours working week doesn't seem unreasonable to me tbh.

It would be quite a short week in most private sector roles too.

smelly sock

nhunter100 wrote: »

Yes I have, married to one.

of course you are.....

nhunter100

smelly sock wrote:

It wasn't the PS that got the country into the mess it's in.

Exactly what sector do you think generates the money that pays for the PS?

smelly sock

nhunter100 wrote: »

Exactly what sector do you think generates the money that pays for the PS?

Our taxes.

nhunter100

smelly sock wrote:

of course you are.....

Why ask so? You clearly don't believe the reply.

nhunter100

smelly sock wrote:

Our taxes.

Your taxes? From the wage the government pays you from money taken from the private sector.

smelly sock

Stheno wrote: »

So 7 hours 27 mins a day excluding lunch? Any tea breaks in the morning?

Less than 37 and a half hours working week doesn't seem unreasonable to me tbh.

It would be quite a short week in most private sector roles too.

I agree in the private sector it's a short working week which I appreciate.

However in the private sector wages are higher. A lot of people also have decent perks (not all) bonuses can be paid also. Promotions are on merit and not on a 30 minutes interview to see who can talk the best s***e.

I didn't want this to be a private v public argument. We are all part of the work force who were screwed over by the Fianna Fail and Fianna Gael.

MeatTwoVeg

smelly sock wrote:

It wasn't the PS that got the country into the mess it's in.

It kinda was.

The expansion of the public service along with the ramping up of PS pay favoured by our great socialist leader Bertie created a crisis when the highly cyclical and vulnerable taxes this was based on collapsed practically overnight.

Funding these wages throughout the recession has added billions to our national debt and makes the banking bailout look like the Teddy Bears' picnic.

smelly sock

nhunter100 wrote: »

Your taxes? From the wage the government pays you from money taken from the private sector.

Yes our taxes.

So, I pay PAYE. Your saying that some of that doesn't go for paying for nurses, Teachers ,Guards social welfare staff.

smelly sock

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

It kinda was.

The expansion of the public service along with the ramping up of PS pay favoured by our great socialist leader Bertie created a crisis when the highly cyclical and vulnerable taxes this was based on collapsed practically overnight.

Funding these wages throughout the recession has added billions to our national debt and makes the banking bailout look like the Teddy Bears' picnic.

What figure do you put on the banking bailout then?

nhunter100

smelly sock wrote:

However in the private sector wages are higher. A lot of people also have decent perks (not all) bonuses can be paid also. Promotions are on merit and not on a 30 minutes interview to see who can talk the best s***e.

Higher wages, debatable. Job security..no, guaranteed pension..no, annual increments..no.

Stheno

smelly sock wrote: »

I agree in the private sector it's a short working week which I appreciate.

However in the private sector wages are higher. A lot of people also have decent perks (not all) bonuses can be paid also. Promotions are on merit and not on a 30 minutes interview to see who can talk the best s***e.

I didn't want this to be a private v public argument. We are all part of the work force who were screwed over by the Fianna Fail and Fianna Gael.

Security of job, flexitime and a guaranteed pension are all benefits you have as well tbh.

I can see an entire swathe of threatened industrial action across the public sector now and honestly think the government will pick and choose who they pander to. Asti haven't gotten too far so far

smelly sock

nhunter100 wrote: »

Higher wages, debatable. Job security..no, guaranteed pension..no, annual increments..no.

True re the pensinn and Job security though.

I'd argue that the job security is only a perk when you can still pay the bills etc.

nhunter100

smelly sock wrote:

Yes our taxes.

smelly sock wrote:

So, I pay PAYE. Your saying that some of that doesn't go for paying for nurses, Teachers ,Guards social welfare staff.

You clearly have no idea where government gets the money to pay the PS.

MeatTwoVeg

smelly sock wrote:

What figure do you put on the banking bailout then?

Less than 20% of our current debt.

Yenwod

Stheno wrote: »

So 7 hours 27 mins a day excluding lunch? Any tea breaks in the morning?

Less than 37 and a half hours working week doesn't seem unreasonable to me tbh.

It would be quite a short week in most private sector roles too.

That's a mandatory figure. Very rare to find a civil servant who doesn't work beyond that, especially in busier offices like social welfare, passport etc

smelly sock

Stheno wrote: »

Security of job, flexitime and a guaranteed pension are all benefits you have as well tbh.

I can see an entire swathe of threatened industrial action across the public sector now and honestly think the government will pick and choose who they pander to. Asti haven't gotten too far so far

Agreed Stheno. I actually think that frontline staff should never have been included in any agreements along with administrators.

Regarding industrial actions, if important departments decide to down tools it may force the Governments hand.

Would you personally see it as acceptable giving us back 27 minutes a day? Forget pay restoration for the moment. I that's all we went looking for.

smelly sock

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Less than 20% of our current debt.

aghhh, someone who believes Government spin.

RobbieTheRobber

OP you will get no sympathy on boards. The civil service took pay cuts, increased working hours as well as the implementation of an additional levy for pensions.

However the vocal members here will tell you with a straight face that civil service and public servants are self entitled and suffered no cuts during the recession.

As fair as I am aware the civil service unions had announced plans to enter talks with the government early next year about the winding down of the financial emergency measures legislation.

The recent garda demand to enter the labor court regarding their pay demands and subsequent pay offer has possibly set a precedent for how other public servants unions may be directed to act.

The correct channel for you would be to raise the issue with your local Union branch to raise with the Union officials.

Geuze

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Less than 20% of our current debt.

64bn gross cost of banking crisis.

Public debt is 200bn approx.

Riamfada

smelly sock wrote: »

However in the private sector wages are higher.

Not anymore. I work with IT technicians on 10k less than their counterparts in the public sector.

smelly sock wrote: »

A lot of people also have decent perks (not all) bonuses can be paid also.

I don't get any perks except my 20 holidays a year. No bonus, healthcare. I do have a subsidised canteen but rarely get lunch breaks I am so busy. Standard 10 hour days paid for 8. No time to sit and eat.

smelly sock wrote: »

Promotions are on merit and not on a 30 minutes interview to see who can talk the best s***e.

Like most people talking smack about the public sector, you don't seem to have realistic view of the private sector. To think for a moment promotions are on merit ...

Id murder for a public sector job.

smelly sock

Yenwod wrote: »

That's a mandatory figure. Very rare to find a civil servant who doesn't work beyond that, especially in busier offices like social welfare, passport etc

Most offices Yenwood.

In all departments there a waster. But for every waster you have a bunch of people in working there arses off.

MeatTwoVeg

Geuze wrote:

64bn gross cost of banking crisis.

You're not including the money we got back.
It's less than 20%.
Fact

Stheno

smelly sock wrote: »

Would you personally see it as acceptable giving us back 27 minutes a day? Forget pay restoration for the moment. I that's all we went looking for.

No to be honest, that would then require one new person to be hired for every 15 currently there to backfill the lost hours. Less than 37.5 hours is not an unreasonable working week

smelly sock

Riamfada wrote: »

Not anymore. I work with IT technicians on 10k less than their counterparts in the public sector.



I don't get any perks except my 20 holidays a year. No bonus, healthcare. I do have a subsidised canteen but rarely get lunch breaks I am so busy. Standard 10 hour days paid for 8. No time to sit and eat.



Like most people talking smack about the public sector, you don't seem to have realistic view of the private sector. To think for a moment promotions are on merit ...

Id murder for a public sector job.

Apply for the jobs when they are advertised so.

Are those IT staff level one?

nhunter100

RobbieTheRobber wrote:

OP you will get no sympathy on boards. The civil service took pay cuts, increased working hours as well as the implementation of an additional levy for pensions.

250000 jobs lost in the private sector give or take a few thousand. Private sector pensions raided by the previous government. Btw the levy will still not cover the value of the guaranteed pension the PS recieves, that's a ticking time bomb for a future government.

Yenwod

"Guaranteed Pension" that civil servants pay for.

- a personal pension - fine
- a spouses and children's pension - that is only payable to spouse/child if you die while still in the service. There is no opt out (even if you're single and childless) and it disappears when you retire
- a pension related deduction (which has nothing to do with pensions, just another tax)

The personal pension is then tied up with the OAP pension (that everyone is entitled to) in that civil servants don't get the full amount.



The guaranteed pension argument of old civil servants was certainly valid but nowadays, it is simply not what it was.

smelly sock

Yenwod wrote: »

"Guaranteed Pension" that civil servants pay for.

- a personal pension - fine
- a spouses and children's pension - that is only payable to spouse/child if you die while still in the service. There is no opt out (even if you're single and childless) and it disappears when you retire
- a pension related deduction (which has nothing to do with pensions, just another tax)

The personal pension is then tied up with the OAP pension (that everyone is entitled to) in that civil servants don't get the full amount.



The guaranteed pension argument of old civil servants was certainly valid but nowadays, it is simply not what it was.

It's valid for senior civil servants. But for your Clerical officers and Executive officers it's not worth a lot.

Yenwod

Geuze wrote: »

Public debt is 200bn approx.

How many billion of that is going on social welfare payments? Not public servants wages

nhunter100

Yenwod wrote:

How many billion of that is going on social welfare payments? Not public servants wages

Social Welfare bill is circa 20 billion, which includes OA pension, child allowance etc.

Yenwod

nhunter100 wrote: »

Social Welfare bill is circa 20 billion, which includes OA pension, child allowance etc.

And the rest of that 200bn debt - HSE, Irish Water etc etc....its not all wages, a very small percentage is.