Are DAA customer oriented

roundymac

This thread has been created to split out from the original Ryanair new hubs thread, to try and get the original thread back on to subject.

Please do NOT attack the poster, if you don't agree, that's fine, but if anyone resorts to personal abuse or worse, we will be taking action, as there's been too many complaints recently about abuse, personal attacks, and the misuse of personal information.

Pat Dunne

737max wrote: »

As as potential Customer I welcome the extra choice that this brings. March can be a bit dreary so there are a few slightly sunnier locations to which I can fly by inexpensively by simply walking from my workplace or Apartment to the train and from train to plane in Frankfurt Main.

Wouldn't it be just brilliant to do this in DUB. The train I mean

Irish Steve

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Wouldn't it be just brilliant to do this in DUB. The train I mean

Indeed. I can't make my mind up if it's the Government that don't want to get involved with anything to do with rail, which might be related to the lack of
any real customer service orientation from Irish Rail, or it could also be that DAA don't want to lose the massive revenue stream they get from charging for parking, and taxi/bus access to the airport.

Either way, I suspect that it will be a very long time before we see any sort of viable rail link to the airport, and the losers are the potential customers of that airport.

If access to and from the airport was quicker and more reliable, it should help boost passenger numbers for Ryanair, (and yes, other carriers too) but that sort of joined up thinking seems to be beyond the people that are charged with making the decisions on our behalf.

737max

It's only because the locals don't know what to expect from a proper airport that they put up with the service they've got.
read reviews for sixt ireland on google and see foreigners complaining about having to queue two hours for service and then having to take a shuttle. sixt in germany get served without delay and descend to the parking garage via elevator to collect their hire car.

L1011

737max wrote: »

Wouldn't Slots be devalued by another runway? Aren't they the aviation equivalent of a Dublin Taxi driver license pre-deregulation.

Extensively so, yes; but its impossible to guess how much

There are promises to reserve slots for routes which have been dropped (primarily domestics) and also rules to prioritise new airlines over existing which is why existing operators are still squirrelling away any they can get.

They aren't going to go to unsaleable but I would cash in now if I had a marginal to loss making route and little reason to be there (some small non-aligned airlines do LHR for pride alone).

Mebuntu

Irish Steve wrote: »

Indeed. I can't make my mind up if it's the Government that don't want to get involved with anything to do with rail, which might be related to the lack of any real customer service orientation from Irish Rail, or it could also be that DAA don't want to lose the massive revenue stream they get from charging for parking, and taxi/bus access to the airport.

Either way, I suspect that it will be a very long time before we see any sort of viable rail link to the airport, and the losers are the potential customers of that airport.

If access to and from the airport was quicker and more reliable, it should help boost passenger numbers for Ryanair, (and yes, other carriers too) but that sort of joined up thinking seems to be beyond the people that are charged with making the decisions on our behalf.

I don't think the lack of rail access has a significant (or, indeed, any) bearing on the number of passengers into or out of DUB. Yes, we'd all love to have it but...........

If you look at the area in Google Earth you can see that the (much) cheaper and easiest rail option would be an overland spur East across that vast green area to the main rail line south of Portmarnock Station without knocking down a single house. That line would lead right into the city centre at Connolly [for Luas (soon to be two Luases connected)], Busarus, to Heuston and anywhere else you wanted to go. Of course, the spur line would have no intermediate stations as there's no other population to serve along the way but people living in Swords and district would find it very handy to use as well as airport passengers/employees/crews etc.

L1011

The Northern Line does not have the capacity to spare to operate a service to the airport at even vaguely useful frequencies.

Idbatterim

The Northern Line does not have the capacity to spare to operate a service to the airport at even vaguely useful frequencies.

sorry this is off topic, but how about if the howth service turns into a shuttle service. would that still be the case? what would you deem useful frequencies? every 20min would be fine in my opinion...

Pat Dunne

737max wrote: »

It's only because the locals don't know what to expect from a proper airport that they put up with the service they've got.
read reviews for sixt ireland on google and see foreigners complaining about having to queue two hours for service and then having to take a shuttle. sixt in germany get served without delay and descend to the parking garage via elevator to collect their hire car.

How is this relevant? If true, it's just piss poor customer service from Sixth!

737max

The third party service providers are as essential to the proper functioning of a successful airport as the services provided by the airport authority itself.

Pat Dunne

737max wrote: »

The third party service providers are as essential to the proper functioning of a successful airport as the services provided by the airport authority itself.

Have you highlighted this to DAA?

ted1

Mebuntu wrote: »

I don't think the lack of rail access has a significant (or, indeed, any) bearing on the number of passengers into or out of DUB. Yes, we'd all love to have it but...........

If you look at the area in Google Earth you can see that the (much) cheaper and easiest rail option would be an overland spur East across that vast green area to the main rail line south of Portmarnock Station without knocking down a single house. That line would lead right into the city centre at Connolly [for Luas (soon to be two Luases connected)], Busarus, to Heuston and anywhere else you wanted to go. Of course, the spur line would have no intermediate stations as there's no other population to serve along the way but people living in Swords and district would find it very handy to use as well as airport passengers/employees/crews etc.

That spur would create a journey that takes too long

737max

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Have you highlighted this to DAA?

Why are you asking rhetorical questions? You know they don't give a fiddler's **** about the concerns of the travelling public.
Should I seek out the board directors who are union reps and political appointees or that fat middle aged DAA worker who screamed at me in the middle of a crowded terminal 1 telling me that it was my fault for arriving only an hour early? Provide the name of somebody in DAA who actually cares about the travelling public and the quality of product they offer to their captive market who have no option to fly to get to their chosen destination as Ireland is an Island.

Pat Dunne

737max wrote: »

Why are you asking rhetorical questions? You know they don't give a fiddler's **** about the concerns of the travelling public.
Should I seek out the board directors who are union reps and political appointees or that fat middle aged DAA worker who screamed at me in the middle of a crowded terminal 1 telling me that it was my fault for arriving only an hour early? Provide the name of somebody in DAA who actually cares about the travelling public and the quality of product they offer to their captive market who have no option to fly to get to their chosen destination as Ireland is an Island.

Hold your horses there Kemosabe, I just asked a civil question. There is absolutely no need to take your frustrations out on me.
Good luck Pal!

Locker10a

737max wrote: »

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Have you highlighted this to DAA?

Why are you asking rhetorical questions? You know they don't give a fiddler's **** about the concerns of the travelling public.
Should I seek out the board directors who are union reps and political appointees or that fat middle aged DAA worker who screamed at me in the middle of a crowded terminal 1 telling me that it was my fault for arriving only an hour early? Provide the name of somebody in DAA who actually cares about the travelling public and the quality of product they offer to their captive market who have no option to fly to get to their chosen destination as Ireland is an Island.

It's clearly obvious you just have a personal gripe with the DAA..... sometimes as adults we just need to let things go

L1011

Idbatterim wrote: »

sorry this is off topic, but how about if the howth service turns into a shuttle service. would that still be the case? what would you deem useful frequencies? every 20min would be fine in my opinion...

15min would be what you'd want; 20 would be just about acceptable but as the Howth service isn't even that frequent at peak so that wouldn't provide the required space.

Further trains would make Belfast services even less useful also.

LiamaDelta

737max wrote: »

The third party service providers are as essential to the proper functioning of a successful airport as the services provided by the airport authority itself.

I'm pretty sure people are capable of differentiating between a poor service provider and an airport authority.

737max

LiamaDelta wrote: »

I'm pretty sure people are capable of differentiating between a poor service provider and an airport authority.

A poor service provider operating from much sought after booths on the premises of the Airport Authority who should be striving to make the experience of travelling through the airport as pleasant as possible for it's millions of Customers many of whom are actually citizens of the Country which owns the airport.

737max

Locker10a wrote: »

It's clearly obvious you just have a personal gripe with the DAA..... sometimes as adults we just need to let things go

You are stating the obvious except you twist it by using the pejorative word "gripe" as opposed to the words "valid complaint" which are outlined in my posts above. There is no hidden agenda. I wear my heart on my sleeve.
Sometimes as Adults we have point out that the service delivered id simply not good enough.
With no public interest representatives in Dublin Airport Authority the Customer is always going to be the most poorly served stakeholder in that critical piece of publicly owned infrastructure.

Tenger

737max wrote: »

You are stating the obvious except you twist it by using the pejorative word "gripe" as opposed to the words "valid complaint" which are outlined in my posts above. There is no hidden agenda. I wear my heart on my sleeve.
Sometimes as Adults we have point out that the service delivered id simply not good enough.
With no public interest representatives in Dublin Airport Authority the Customer is always going to be the most poorly served stakeholder in that critical piece of publicly owned infrastructure.

That may well be so 737max but as has been pointed out to you by this mod previously, this is a casual discussion board.

We are not responsible for the situation as you see it at Dublin airport. If you believe you have a valid complaint then complain to the DAA. Dont gripe online, dont continually argue with posters who have a difference of opinion to you, dont clog up aviation threads with rants about lack of rail links and transport options. Pretty much every poster here would like to see a rail link to DUB.

We arent going to solve any problems here on boards.ie. At some point we just have to acknowledge that we have to learn to live with the way things are. (The past SNN vs ORK vs DUB arguements being an example)

markpb

My 2c as someone who uses the airport a small number of times a year for work and family holidays:
- the choice of airlines and destinations is good
- short-term parking is easy to find, even without booking and is relatively affordable.
- the links to the various long term car park is good
- public transport links to the rest of the country are quite good (outside the scope of DAA but anyway)
- public transport links to dublin vary between excellent and average, depending on where you're coming from (outside of the scope of DAA)
- the airport itself is relatively easy to navigate, signs are good and you're not forced to walk through the shops like most UK airports
- the security queues are generally reasonable (although I've heard people talking recently about 30 minute waiting times which is not acceptable outside of exceptions)
- unlimited free wifi is a great addition, especially for tourists
- the selection and quality of food in the air-side restaurants is generally good, not Michelin star but acceptable for an airport. (Much better than CDG anyway!). The choice of restaurants land-side in T1 is very poor but I accept that this isn't a priority.
- there is almost always a staff member nearby if you have a question

My main grips with the airport are:
- lack of a pick-up area. I totally understand why this is the case, people would abuse it. 15 minutes free parking in short-term would be an acceptable alternative
- lack of a rail link to the city (not the responsibility of DAA)
- confusion about which buses stop where. the signs are fine but it's not obvious why some local buses stop outside T1 but others are outside the Atrirum. Why do QuickPark set down at both terminals but only collect at T1?

Overall, Dublin is a on a par with a lot of other European airports and is leagues ahead of UK or American airports (in my experience). Considering the way that central government parachuted unsuitable people into Aer Rianta for years, I think the airport has done well to develop in a relatively cohesive manner. I think owning all the land required for a second main runway shows a lot more foresight than most other state agencies.

Carawaystick

I suppose the question in the thead title needs to flesh out who the DAA customers are?
Mostly airlines folowed by retailers renting space followed by motorists parking

Passengers aren't their customers

Fattes

Carawaystick wrote: »

I suppose the question in the thead title needs to flesh out who the DAA customers are?
Mostly airlines folowed by retailers renting space followed by motorists parking

Passengers aren't their customers

Yes they are! DAA provide a number of services directly to customers, Security, parking, Toilet facilities etc They also provide ancillary service that although not directly marketed to travelling public are aimed at the travelling public.

737max

That passenger fee is being collected by airlines on behalf of the Airport. They don't pay it for empty planes.

A shopping centre manager would do their best to make the experience of visiting their shopping centre as attractive as possible to shoppers as that is what allows them to extract fees from the tenants. Likewise the Customer in an Airport is the person passing through it who has to enjoy the experience.

Amongst my valid complaints(not gripes) which differ from those mentioned by another poster before me who seems to reside in Dublin/Ireland where as I reside outside Ireland are:

T2 gates actually being just behind T1 Security check and not in T2.

If you arrive after 8pm and you wish to get down the country your only realistic option is to hire a car and the hire car experience is not good. T1 and more so T2 are set out to accommodate car hire to a certain extent but the operators bus every one out to an off-site location while holding on to the booths and parking spaces at the Airport.

DAA must know that the poor onward connections are the Achilles heel of the Airport but aren't willing to offend Government enough to make this a talking point in the media.

If I go in to Google maps I can get reasonable transport connections all across Germany during the night. I can get nothing like it for Ireland and I'm being reasonable in looking to get somewhere that might be within a 25 to 30km radius from where I need to get to knowing that Ireland doesn't have the population density of Germany to justify their quality of public transport.

Security queue checks are often unreasonably long outside of peak hours.

This can't be fixed; The team who decided that it was acceptable for millions of passengers per year to walk almost 1km to get to a gate when deciding the design of Pier D or that there should be a Pier D in its current design should be taken out and shot.

Not my concern as I don't use it but Parking anywhere near the airport is too expensive because DAA will object to any planning for car parks anywhere nearby and won't help with shuttle access to a competitor either. I can park cheaply near Frankfurt Main airport with third parties.

Positives: The areas around the departure gates are pleasant and it is nice to be greeted by someone with an Irish accent at the passport check on arrival.

Tenger

737max wrote: »

.......

T2 gates actually being just behind T1 Security check and not in T2.

.......

This can't be fixed; The team who decided that it was acceptable for millions of passengers per year to walk almost 1km to get to a gate when deciding the design of Pier D or that there should be a Pier D in its current design should be taken out and shot.

..........

This is where you keep banging your head against a wall.
The 2 terminals share Pier B/300 gates. Live with it.

The Pier D design isnt good. However it was a choice between that design or nothing. At the time there wasnt going to be a 2nd terminal and that option was the only relistic way to expand the airport facility around the protected building (Old terminal)


I was in Rome FCO last year, I had to check-in with Alitalia in T1, go through security, walk for approx 40 minutes to get to the very end of the terminal so I could go through the connecting pasegners section. Wait 10 monutes to get a bus to take me to T3 where my actual plane was. Alitalia handle Aer Lingus but they dont have a presence in T3 so we have to check in at T1.
Makes your issues about Pier D and the 300 gates seem very small indeed. At least you can walk between piers when airside in Dublin.

LiamaDelta

737max wrote: »

If you arrive after 8pm and you wish to get down the country your only realistic option is to hire a car and the hire car experience is not good.

you're correct in saying that car hire is the only realistic option but that's not entirely within the control of the DAA...train services in this country finish quite early, I think the last intercity departures are around 9pm. Similarly the public bus service finishes early, however the private bus operators are picking up the slack and are providing good off-peak services from Dublin Airport. And this was actually facilitated by the DAA building the Atrium area into a decent bus terminus.

Your criticism of the car-hire service provider is not indicative of the overall car-hire service at the airport. I have used it reasonably often and never had an issue. However I don't use the service provider that you mentioned as they are notorious at Dublin. I use a different provider/s and generally have been in my car within 30 minutes of getting to the desk - which I would actually compliment the DAA for building that centralised area with decent warm offices for completing your transaction. It's pretty similar to most other airports of comparable size.

Irish Steve

For me, there are a number of issues with the airport experience.

The first is the deplorable layout of the departure set down road at T1, which is an accident waiting to happen. The pedestrian crossing half way along is a significant delay factor, especially at peak periods, it should be possible, and is certainly desirable to segregate pedestrians and vehicles, if that means some travelator type systems to get pedestrians with trolleys over the road, then so be it.

Also re the set down road, having 2 or 3 lanes to the left of the through lane makes it impossible at times to get into a space, all too often, there are parked vehicles (often taxis) that are left in the middle lane, which block access to the leftmost lanes, even when there is space in there.

A much better solution would be to have the middle lane as the through lane, with parking on both the right and left of the through lane, as that would mean that passengers getting out of a vehicle could get on to a safe walkway immediately, rather than having to thread their way through moving traffic. That might not be an issue for a young 20's passenger with hand luggage, it's a very different story for a family with small children and luggage, or elderly passengers.

Passenger pick up is non existent, if DAA are not prepared to facilitate pick up collection from the terminals, then they need to have a pick up point at one or other of the long term car parks, with passengers allowed to use the shuttle bus to get there. If I'm collecting someone, it's on a planned basis, so I don't need to park, or leave the vehicle, I just need a space for about the same length of time as for a drop off, and I'm gone, but there is (officially) nowhere to do that sort of collection at present.

Security, it's a pain, and could be made more user friendly with a few simple changes. First, tell people what the rules are today, some days they want belts, and shoes on the scanner, others they don't, so tell us before we get to the scanner what they want this time, as removing shoes and belts unnecessarily is a PAIN, especially for older and/or infirm passengers. Once through the scanner, there's very little to help those same older or infirm passengers to get back into their shoes, belts etc, other than blocking the scanner belt, which delays other people. Trying to recover hand luggage, shoes, belt, phone and top coat from the tray, and getting out of the way while preventing the loss of trousers with one hand is hard for the young and fit, and impossible for the elderly and infirm. There's very few seats with tables or similar, so those elderly passengers have to dump everything on the floor while they sit down to put their shoes back on, which adds to the problems of then getting their items and themselves up again.

The bus stops are not well laid out, or signed, and we've seen a number of posts on here in recent times about people missing buses because they couldn't find the right place to wait.

A rail link is going to be needed at some stage, in as much as the local road structure is already under pressure, and increased numbers of vehicles won't help that any, if there was better transport to the airport, there would be fewer staff having to use cars to get to and from the place. DAA has to plan that now to make sure that it will work, some of the proposals that have been made in the past have been somewhat strange, like the metro terminal near the Great Southern that was in the plan a while back.

The present access to cargo handling warehouses is not good, the roads are narrow and the turns tight for the size of vehicles that are needed to handle freight pallets and containers, and the expansion of T2 airside stands will make access to stands for cargo aircraft even more difficult, and freight is an increasing factor at Dublin, despite the lack of cargo carrying by Ryanair. There seems to be very little constructive discussion about how that side of the operation will be managed.

Having worked there, some of the airside baggage handling systems of T1 defy description, in terms of bad design, bad organisation, and a total lack of space to do the job that the system is supposed to do, the people that designed the outbound baggage hall had clearly never been near a baggage hall in their lives, the place is a disaster. There have also been a number of accidents on the slope into the arrrivals baggage hall, due to a combination of weight of bags on the carts and ice on the slope.

I've also operated aircraft in and out of Dublin, but that was so long ago, it's not relevant to the discussion now.

For me, DAA's track record has not been good, probably because for years, the place was stuffed with political appointees who were being rewarded for services to whoever was in power at the time, and knew very little if anything about how to operate an airport. Hopefully, times are changing, the way in which the new runway is managed and implemented will reveal how much that is true.

Stovepipe

As an airline employee, I am regularly stopped by passengers asking for help with the buses so signage is clearly a problem. This is the airport that has it's signage in Irish or English and no other language so if you are not fluent in either, tough luck. Given the amount of Arabic, African and European pax passing through, a few signs in Arabic, French, German and Mandarin might help....the distance one has to walk to get to any Ryanair flight or any flight at the end of T2 is crazy and is purely designed to funnel the punter thru the shops.Can the DAA open access via the old North terminal directly to the Ryanair gates? Why are people funnelled thru the T2 side to have to then walk along the tunnel into T1 for a flight off Pier B? they are moving Etihad to pier A now. That's going to be sporty.

The Veteran

Stovepipe wrote: »

As an airline employee, I am regularly stopped by passengers asking for help with the buses so signage is clearly a problem. This is the airport that has it's signage in Irish or English and no other language so if you are not fluent in either, tough luck. Given the amount of Arabic, African and European pax passing through, a few signs in Arabic, French, German and Mandarin might help....the distance one has to walk to get to any Ryanair flight or any flight at the end of T2 is crazy and is purely designed to funnel the punter thru the shops.Can the DAA open access via the old North terminal directly to the Ryanair gates? Why are people funnelled thru the T2 side to have to then walk along the tunnel into T1 for a flight off Pier B? they are moving Etihad to pier A now. That's going to be sporty.

Dublin Airport really isn't two Terminals / once airside it really is only one. The distances are not huge - try some of the walks in Schipol; Gatwick can be long enough; a walk is part and parcel.

I don't think T1 passengers are really funnelled through the shops; T2 is different - you just emerge into an open plan area after security with retail all around you. Gatwick is a disaster in that you have to walk through a long area. In T1 Dublin the only place where it feels like that is just after security at the "turn off" for the 300 Gates.

The mixed nature of the 300 Gates does cause a lot of debate on here and elsewhere but I would t see it as a big deal but I am very familiar with the airport. If a passenger enters T2 Airside for a 300 Gate flight; the walking route is grim.

A daa employee said to me not so long ago that in hindsight he couldn't believe they got away with building T1 as large as it was in 1973 - the passenger numbers then wouldn't have justified it or anywhere near it.

T2 / never understood why the link to the 300 Gates is so poor; why the access to the big escalator to the 400 Gates is as meandering as it is. Also, the landide walking route was an afterthought - don't understand that. The number of passengers who emerge each day and struggle to find taxis\buses\Aircoach is amazing considering the cost of the place.

All said I think the current daa management are trying to catch up and recover lost ground.

After all the place has grown by an amazing amount in 2 years. T1 is getting a facelift. T2 is a ghost town for a lot of the day but any photos or PR is always T2 focuses.

Stovepipe

I agree. It's new piled on old and is shambolic in places, even for people who work there. There are parts that should be knocked flat and rebuilt and they still have no terminals on the other side of the airport.

Mebuntu

The team who decided that it was acceptable for millions of passengers per year to walk almost 1km to get to a gate when deciding the design of Pier D or that there should be a Pier D in its current design should be taken out and shot.

This overview confirms the folly of retaining, for cranks, a very old building that serves no useful purpose whatsoever in a modern airport and prevents development. When you look at the walk imposed on 21st Century passengers as a result, it is absolutely ridiculous. Pythagoras comes to mind. (Not to mention a harp )

Are there any suggestions for using this current waste of space, including the area to its East, should common sense prevail and it becomes available in the future for modern redevelopment? Perhaps, a new car hire area?

The Veteran

Mebuntu wrote: »

This overview confirms the folly of retaining, for cranks, a very old building that serves no useful purpose whatsoever in a modern airport and prevents development. When you look at the walk imposed on 21st Century passengers as a result, it is absolutely ridiculous. Pythagoras comes to mind. (Not to mention a harp )

Are there any suggestions for using this current waste of space, including the area to its East, should common sense prevail and it becomes available in the future for modern redevelopment? Perhaps, a new car hire area?

As far as I know the OCTB as the old Terminal is called us subject to some sort of preservation order so it isn't going anywhere anytime soon. There are issues with the airside roadway there
in terms of how services\access can be maintained. Admittedly the walkway can be suspended in the air.

The photo showing the route would need to take account of the need to expand the Immigration Hall which is both too small and the wrong design\shape.

lintdrummer

Mebuntu wrote: »

The team who decided that it was acceptable for millions of passengers per year to walk almost 1km to get to a gate when deciding the design of Pier D or that there should be a Pier D in its current design should be taken out and shot.

This overview confirms the folly of retaining, for cranks, a very old building that serves no useful purpose whatsoever in a modern airport and prevents development. When you look at the walk imposed on 21st Century passengers as a result, it is absolutely ridiculous. Pythagoras comes to mind. (Not to mention a harp )

Are there any suggestions for using this current waste of space, including the area to its East, should common sense prevail and it becomes available in the future for modern redevelopment? Perhaps, a new car hire area?

The difference between your "sensible" route and the current one is less than 100 metres. Has it really come to a point where award winning architecture and heritage should be destroyed to save you 30 seconds of walking? Not to mention that the building is used as office space amongst other things, so you're just wrong about it serving no useful purpose.

Locker10a

Mebuntu wrote: »

The team who decided that it was acceptable for millions of passengers per year to walk almost 1km to get to a gate when deciding the design of Pier D or that there should be a Pier D in its current design should be taken out and shot.

This overview confirms the folly of retaining, for cranks, a very old building that serves no useful purpose whatsoever in a modern airport and prevents development. When you look at the walk imposed on 21st Century passengers as a result, it is absolutely ridiculous. Pythagoras comes to mind. (Not to mention a harp )

Are there any suggestions for using this current waste of space, including the area to its East, should common sense prevail and it becomes available in the future for modern redevelopment? Perhaps, a new car hire area?

That's a listed building, and I am very much grateful to our authorities for protecting it and the many buildings like it in this country and around the world.
God help you having to walk an extra few meters, the injustice !
Sure for god sake why has no one knocked down the GPO , the walk imposed on 21st century shoppers is absolutely ridiculous ....

737max

That art deco airport terminal may be a unique piece of architecture but there is pushing toward 10 million people using pier D annually and that adds up to years of wasted walking.
The elevated walkway is like a f*ck you from the DAA to the planning authorities choosing to obscure the view of what is a beautiful building now turned in to an architectural folly as it exists now only to be looked at; a building intended to be a low volume airport terminal is not suited for use as an office building.

Using google earth I measure the distance at 120 metres rather than 100 metres. average walking speed is 1.4metres per second so it takes and additional 85 seconds, not a minute to walk that extra distance. Furthermore that is an average speed, not a speed for the elderly or those accompanied by young children. It can't be speeded up because it is curved and travellators don't do curves. pushing toward ten million passengers(I don't have the figures) that is a combined 27 years of additional walking foisted on travelling public per year(I think).

The GPO doesn't push out in to the middle of O'Connell street and apart from the protestors who gather in front of it doesn't obstruct anyone not wishing to visit it.

If I were the planning authority I'd have allowed it be demolished despite its undeniable architectural significance. As the planning authorities dictated that the old airport remain, presented with this problem I would have gone subterranean and used travellators emerging somewhere further along the pier and connecting in to the old terminal building. Maybe that is what they had expected would have been done but those who developed terminal 1 went another way.

I use very long subterranean walkways a couple of times a week in my workplace. Most buildings in my workplace are connected by subterranean walkways so that one doesn't have to be going through security checks all the time.

850 000 000
/60
14166666.66666667 minutes
/60
236111.1111111111 hours
/24
9837.962962962963 days
/365
26.9533231861999 years

L1011

737max wrote: »

a building intended to be a low volume airport terminal is not suited for use as an office building.

The sections of it intended to be a low volume terminal *are* a low volume terminal - bus gates. The sections built as offices are offices.

737max

L1011 wrote: »

The sections of it intended to be a low volume terminal *are* a low volume terminal - bus gates. The sections built as offices are offices.

and the parts facing out on to the runway? Hasn't it to all intents and purposes ceased to operate as an airport terminal and is now a folly which one pauses to look up when on ones way elsewhere.

L1011

737max wrote: »

and the parts facing out on to the runway?

Those would be the bus gates.

737max

which you know are barely used. you are not being even remotely honest in your attempts to debate with me. With so much traffic of the winged variety on either side of the old terminal from those piers it will never be possible to use the old terminal as was originally envisioned.
Provide passenger volumes figures for the old terminal to prove to me that it operates as a mass transit terminal or even close to the volumes it originally designed to handle.
Dublin Old Terminal building is now essentially an architectural folly.

737max

I have a friend who uses her second WC as a store room. It was never intended to be used as a store room. it wasn't designed to be one but it is there and she needs a place to dump stuff so that is what it has been re-tasked to do despite being unsuitable.
That, on a much larger scale, is what has happened to the old terminal building.

Stovepipe

They used to route Ryanair pax thru the old terminal but someone decided that all that footfall was not good for the building so they scabbed on that tunnel, as well as the two tunnels that are stuck onto the link between Pier B and T2. The walking distance between the Ryanair ticket desks in T1 and the very end of the Ryanair pier is about 1.2km, which is quite a distance, especially if you are in a hurry and/or are elderly.Also, I pity anyone who has to connect to another flight in the airport. The amount of times I have encountered frantic pax trying to get to their connecting flight, running from one Terminal to another, is off the clock.I think the DAA should get a few employees with pedometers and stopwatches to actually walk the internal routes and do some real-world timing.If and when they put in the second runway, it's going to be really sporty.

munchkin_utd

heres the master plan for Dublin airport, at least seems to be a grand vision of how things could eventually pan out.
http://i.imgur.com/NY2T2BH.jpg
You'd see that the curvy bridge to the Ryanair gates actually will split in 2, with pier D extended eastwards to accommodate what looks like over a dozen more planes, with the bridge splitting with a new passage towards the east, just as the it now turns to the west.
So what looks like a round about way of getting to Pier D, could actually be foresight ahead of any expansion on that pier to the east.

737max

munchkin_utd wrote: »

heres the master plan for Dublin airport, at least seems to be a grand vision of how things could eventually pan out.
http://i.imgur.com/NY2T2BH.jpg

It isn't a grand vision; It seems like a best worst scenario based on what is already there.
If Dublin Airport becomes a 40 or 50m passenger airport then all these passengers are still going to be coming in the front doors of Terminal 1 and Terminal 2. You really are boring in to the belly of the beast to get access to the airport.

Pat Dunne

Just say the DAA came to you and said, "you are extremely farsighted and have a unique grasp of what we need to do for the next 50 years, would do you suggest"?

The old CTB could be taken down block by block and reinstated elsewhere possibly as a museum. It has been done successfully elsewhere and could be done here. As others have said it adds nothing to a modern functional airport and in fact is off limits to the public most of whom couldn't careless about it's existence.

Personally if it was moved ANY work done in the area should be for efficiency projects, more stands/taxiways/realignment of terminals etc I certainly wouldn't be doing it to shorten someones walk.

737max

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally if it was moved ANY work done in the area should be for efficiency projects, more stands/taxiways/realignment of terminals etc I certainly wouldn't be doing it to shorten someones walk.

You are thinking two-dimensionally; you can do both at the same time as was done in Frankfurt Terminal 2 and in many town squares throughout mainland Europe.
Also, when does "someone" become 10 million paying passengers in your mind.

Pat Dunne

For anyone why has real mobility issues please contact OCS at DUB as they operate a fantastic service that is free to everyone. I personally can't recommend them enough, great staff who can't do enough for people who are not as spritely on their feet as they use to be.

The rest of you can enjoy the walk and if you haven't allowed enough time for your transfer, well what can one say.......

737max

Pat Dunne wrote: »

you haven't allowed enough time for your transfer, well what can one say.......

Is that the DAA version of "enough time" which compensates for the eccentricities of the airport layout and cost savings on keeping fewer security checks open than are actually available?

using the stats already stated of 1.4 metres walking pace per second and 1.2km to the end gates at pier D that is 14 to 15 minutes walking straight away at an average pace before you even take in to account the security checks.

lintdrummer

OK so I've actually used the same method I used to check the difference between a direct tunnel and the current curved one to measure the longest walk from T1 security to the last of the RYR gates and it comes in just short of 900m. That's 11 minutes walking if you are unfortunate enough to be going from the farthest security scanner to the farthest gate. I can't consider that walk unreasonable under any circumstances 737max, it's really not very far. As already stated, the direct tunnel would shave circa 100m off that walk or 70 seconds of walking.
You're clearly aggrieved by this walk but hopefully with these figures you can see that it's not as bad as you think it is. Anybody who feels that they are under pressure to make it to their flight has simply not allowed themselves enough time. The majority of people are not going to be walking the entire distance anyway so the average time for a passenger will be <10mins.

737max

No, sorry this is not acceptable despite how you may want to paint it.

900m from security to end of pier d after standing in line for 10, 20, 30 minutes to go through security.
The majority of passengers are going through pier D as that is where Ryanair fly from.
Pier D is about 250metres long so the average walk of people having to go through Pier D is 775 metres where you'll end up standing as there are enough seats to accommodate every passenger on flights that are 95% full.
Poster stovepipe mentioned a walk of 1.2km from ticket/check-in desks for Ryanair to the end of Pier D.
An hour on your feet would have been seen as punishment in olden days in school without even adding in the weight of your baggage.

Flying through Dublin Airport is an activity for the young and fit. I simply can't convince older relations to travel as the trip through the airport is so stressful but they still wouldn't embarrass themselves by admitting they aren't fit enough to make it to the gates and call the wagon.

Knowing the distances involved more travelators should have been provided.

Tenger

737max wrote: »

No, sorry this is not acceptable despite how you may want to paint it.

900m from security to end of pier d after standing in line for 10, 20, 30 minutes to go through security.
The majority of passengers are going through pier D as that is where Ryanair fly from.........
An hour on your feet would have been seen as punishment in olden days in school without even adding in the weight of your baggage.
...... I simply can't convince older relations to travel as the trip through the airport is so stressful but they still wouldn't embarrass themselves by admitting they aren't fit enough to make it to the gates and call the wagon.

Knowing the distances involved more travelators should have been provided.

Yes the DAA are the Satan of airport operators, they deliberately go out of their way to offend you and everyone who uses their airports. They dont want anyone to enjoy the experience of travelling through Dublin.

As had been stated to you repeatedly, complain to the DAA if you have a problem. Stop clogging up this forum with your chip on your shoulder.

This thread is not for infrastructure discussion, we already have a thread for that.
More pertinent of course id the boards.ie mantra of "DON'T FEED THE TROLL