Clamping in private estates

M94

When I visit my girlfriend there is a sign saying permit and pay and display parking from 7 to 7. I wanted to know how often do cars get clamped it these places because I stay overnight sometimes and leave later than 7. It does not make any sense to me why is there permit parking there since the housing estate is far away from the city center so no one going to work would park there anyway, seems like to generate revenue. I asked her if she can get the permit and she said she can't I don't know the real reason why but she told me that communication with the owner is difficult and she is only renting a room in the house. Should I buy an angle grinder or lockpicks? No way I am paying for a clamp to get removed from a house where I live for up to 4 days per week.

Johnnyhpipe

If its a private clamping company (we all know who they are) ie, not council clamping in public space, then if you can remove clamp without damaging/losing it you're grand once you return it to them. If you damage/lose it then you can be done for criminal damage/theft of their property (ie the clamp).

I did it before, had to take my wheel off so i didn't damage the clamp. Dropped it into the local garda station and phoned the clamping co to let them know where they can collect their clamp. The garda was great and had a laugh about it!

M94

Johnnyhpipe wrote: »

If its a private clamping company (we all know who they are) ie, not council clamping in public space, then if you can remove clamp without damaging/losing it you're grand once you return it to them. If you damage/lose it then you can be done for criminal damage/theft of their property (ie the clamp).

I did it before, had to take my wheel off so i didn't damage the clamp. Dropped it into the local garda station and phoned the clamping co to let them know where they can collect their clamp. The garda was great and had a laugh about it!

How can they prove you damaged the clamp or stole it if you don't give back the clamp after taking it off? That would be making a claim without any proof.

Johnnyhpipe

M94 wrote: »

How can they prove you damaged the clamp or stole it if you don't give back the clamp after taking it off? That would be making a claim without any proof.

Doesn't matter. The gardai told me once its on your car, you become responsible for it. So don't go for the grinder.

tuisginideach

You live for up to 4 days a week in a house where your girlfriend is renting a room? And you wonder why they clamp cars????????????????

Stheno

tuisginideach wrote: »

You live for up to 4 days a week in a house where your girlfriend is renting a room? And you wonder why they clamp cars????????????????

Maybe he contributes? If not I'd say it won't be long before the gf is looking for a new place

wonski

The owner of a house will not get a permit for you just because you live there up to 4 days a week.

You know why

M94

wonski wrote: »

The owner of a house will not get a permit for you just because you live there up to 4 days a week.

You know why

wonski wrote: »

The owner of a house will not get a permit for you just because you live there up to 4 days a week.

You know why

Because there is a retarded system in place for revenue generation, nothing to do with the availability of spaces. She was living in an estate with no permit parking closer to city center and nobody ever had a problem with parking. I don't understand the logic so if I don't live there all the time that means I cannot see my girlfriend at all? What about if you have guests come to your house? Who cares about guests let them all get clamped and raise revenue for whoever decided to implement this genius system.

wonski

M94 wrote: »

Because there is a retarded system in place for revenue generation, nothing to do with the availability of spaces. She was living in an estate with no permit parking closer to city center and nobody ever had a problem with parking. I don't understand the logic so if I don't live there all the time that means I cannot see my girlfriend at all? What about if you have guests come to your house? Who cares about guests let them all get clamped and raise revenue for whoever decided to implement this genius system.

You know that's not true.

Visitors spots, pay by text and other options are available. If they are not I am with you on this.

ted1

M94 wrote: »

Because there is a retarded system in place for revenue generation, nothing to do with the availability of spaces. She was living in an estate with no permit parking closer to city center and nobody ever had a problem with parking. I don't understand the logic so if I don't live there all the time that means I cannot see my girlfriend at all? What about if you have guests come to your house? Who cares about guests let them all get clamped and raise revenue for whoever decided to implement this genius system.

Planning permission is strict with regards spaces per dwelling.

grogi

M94 wrote: »

When I visit my girlfriend there is a sign saying permit and pay and display parking from 7 to 7. I wanted to know how often do cars get clamped it these places because I stay overnight sometimes and leave later than 7. It does not make any sense to me why is there permit parking there since the housing estate is far away from the city center so no one going to work would park there anyway, seems like to generate revenue. I asked her if she can get the permit and she said she can't I don't know the real reason why but she told me that communication with the owner is difficult and she is only renting a room in the house. Should I buy an angle grinder or lockpicks? No way I am paying for a clamp to get removed from a house where I live for up to 4 days per week.

Prepare upfront and create 'terms and conditions of using the car to store the clamps'.
* using this car to store a clamp means this T&C were accepted
* clamps left unattended will be towed away
* towed clamps will be released to the owner once the storage fee is paid.
* storage fee is €50/day.
Attach to the window of the car.

As ridiculous it sounds, it has exactly as much sense as the t&c of the parking operated by private operators that are public (without any access restrictions).

Del2005

M94 wrote: »

Because there is a retarded system in place for revenue generation, nothing to do with the availability of spaces. She was living in an estate with no permit parking closer to city center and nobody ever had a problem with parking. I don't understand the logic so if I don't live there all the time that means I cannot see my girlfriend at all? What about if you have guests come to your house? Who cares about guests let them all get clamped and raise revenue for whoever decided to implement this genius system.

Clamping in private developments is usually introduced for 2 reasons. People abusing the parking spaces, which you say doesn't happen, or non payment of management fees, the fact that your girl friends landlord can't get a permit means he's not paying his management fee.

M94

grogi wrote: »

M94 wrote: »

When I visit my girlfriend there is a sign saying permit and pay and display parking from 7 to 7. I wanted to know how often do cars get clamped it these places because I stay overnight sometimes and leave later than 7. It does not make any sense to me why is there permit parking there since the housing estate is far away from the city center so no one going to work would park there anyway, seems like to generate revenue. I asked her if she can get the permit and she said she can't I don't know the real reason why but she told me that communication with the owner is difficult and she is only renting a room in the house. Should I buy an angle grinder or lockpicks? No way I am paying for a clamp to get removed from a house where I live for up to 4 days per week.

Prepare upfront and create 'terms and conditions of using the car to store the clamps'.
* using this car to store a clamp means this T&C were accepted
* clamps left unattended will be towed away
* towed clamps will be released to the owner once the storage fee is paid.
* storage fee is 50/day.
Attach to the window of the car.

As ridiculous it sounds, it has exactly as much sense as the t&c of the parking operated by private operators that are public (without any access restrictions).

I think I will spend 50 and get good quality lockpicks and learn to unlock the clamp. I would also help the community by unlocking any clamps I come across. See the video, this guy makes it look effortless.

Del2005

M94 wrote: »

I think I will spend 50 and get good quality lockpicks and learn to unlock the clamp. I would also help the community by unlocking any clamps I come across. See the video, this guy makes it look effortless.

You'd help the community more by getting the landlord to pay their fees and save yourself €50

ted1

Del2005 wrote: »

Clamping in private developments is usually introduced for 2 reasons. People abusing the parking spaces, which you say doesn't happen, or non payment of management fees, the fact that your girl friends landlord can't get a permit means he's not paying his management fee.

Or the landlord isn't arsed, because he already feels inconvenienced by have a squatter living rent free in his home that he planned to share with an individual

Teyla Emmagan

Or the house already has two permits or whatever is the max they are entitled to.

If the OP is only a PITA 4 day a week visitor there is no reason they should be given a permit.

It's not a ridiculous money generating system OP, it's there to protect the genuine residents from people like YOU!

grogi

Del2005 wrote: »

You'd help the community more by getting the landlord to pay their fees and save yourself €50

It's should not be his business how the landlord manages his affairs.

M94

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Or the house already has two permits or whatever is the max they are entitled to.

If the OP is only a PITA 4 day a week visitor there is no reason they should be given a permit.

It's not a ridiculous money generating system OP, it's there to protect the genuine residents from people like YOU!

How am I not a genuine resident if I live there? Nobody in the whole house has a car. This has to be the stupidest thing I read all week. Oh yes protecting the genuine residents from my crimes wow hahaha what a joke I think you are trolling at this point.

dudara

OP, do you pay rent & is your name on the lease along with your girlfriends name?

endacl

Is the OP in the running for Boards.ie's 'Millenial of the Month' award?

Does such an award exist?

If not, it should. I demand it now. #becauseimentitled

I fully accept that I personally am not a millennial. I do feel entitled to be one thoug. Why? Because I'm entitled. That's why.

M94

endacl wrote: »

Is the OP in the running for Boards.ie's 'Millenial of the Month' award?

Does such an award exist?

If not, it should. I demand it now. #becauseimentitled

I fully accept that I personally am not a millennial. I do feel entitled to be one thoug. Why? Because I'm entitled. That's why.

Because I live there.

M94

ted1 wrote: »

Del2005 wrote: »

Clamping in private developments is usually introduced for 2 reasons. People abusing the parking spaces, which you say doesn't happen, or non payment of management fees, the fact that your girl friends landlord can't get a permit means he's not paying his management fee.

Or the landlord isn't arsed, because he already feels inconvenienced by have a squatter living rent free in his home that he planned to share with an individual

Except that I pay rent nice assumptions by the way shows high intelligence.

Del2005

grogi wrote: »

It's should not be his business how the landlord manages his affairs.

If he gets clamped because of how the landlord manages his affairs then it is his business. I'm sure that the landlord would be happy if his girlfriend decides to manage her affairs by not paying rent.

Del2005

M94 wrote: »

Except that I pay rent nice assumptions by the way shows high intelligence.

Then prepare to be clamped repeatedly.

grogi

Del2005 wrote: »

If he gets clamped because of how the landlord manages his affairs then it is his business. I'm sure that the landlord would be happy if his girlfriend decides to manage her affairs by not paying rent.

But it wouldn't be any of the management company business, would it?

jd

M94 wrote:

Because I live there.

You originally said you were visiting your gf.

Hasmunch

M94 wrote: »

Except that I pay rent nice assumptions by the way shows high intelligence.

If you pay rent and noone else in the house has a car then you should be entitled to a permit.
What is the issue here?

M94

Del2005 wrote: »

M94 wrote: »

Except that I pay rent nice assumptions by the way shows high intelligence.

Then prepare to be clamped repeatedly.

That is why I will be carrying with me an angle grinder or lockpicks. I will not accept getting ripped off everywhere I go. I will also drive a motorcycle instead of car and that will sort out most issues as driving a car in Ireland is extremely punishing.

ted1

M94 wrote: »

Except that I pay rent nice assumptions by the way shows high intelligence.

You originally said "when I visit my girlfriend "
One usually doesn't visit where they reside.

I guess your inability to accurately describe your living location display a low level of intelligence.

ted1

Hasmunch wrote: »

If you pay rent and noone else in the house has a car then you should be entitled to a permit.
What is the issue here?

Not if there wasn't a space provided in the lease. The LL could rent out the space separately.

M94

ted1 wrote: »

M94 wrote: »

Except that I pay rent nice assumptions by the way shows high intelligence.

You originally said "when I visit my girlfriend "
One usually doesn't visit where they reside.

I guess your inability to accurately describe your living location display a low level of intelligence.

I pay rent and have my things there and spend some evenings there what else? The owner knows about this.

Hasmunch

M94 wrote: »

I asked her if she can get the permit and she said she can't I don't know the real reason why but she told me that communication with the owner is difficult and she is only renting a room in the house.

ted1 wrote: »

Not if there wasn't a space provided in the lease. The LL could rent out the space separately.

Ted that could very well be the reason.

M94 as you are paying rent why dont you contact the landlord and find out why he will not supply a permit if you are entitled to one as per your lease of course.

_Kaiser_

M94 wrote: »

Because I live there.

Are you on the lease? Do you pay rent? Does the landlord know you live there?

If no to any of the above then you may stay over there but you certainly don't LIVE there and as such are not entitled to anything as you're not a resident.

Indeed, the landlord may not be happy to find out he has an unauthorized part-time tenant as well

EDIT: Never mind. Cross-posted with OP update (that's what I get leaving multiple tabs open). In that case, get your landlord to sort a permit for you or pay the fines you're getting otherwise

Stheno

M94 wrote: »

Because I live there.

So it's not your gfs house but yours too where you pay rent. Why don't you ask the landlord for a permit yourself in that case?

Del2005

grogi wrote: »

But it wouldn't be any of the management company business, would it?

The landlord seems happy not to pay for services provided, so why should they be upset if they don't get paid for services provided.

Del2005

ted1 wrote: »

Not if there wasn't a space provided in the lease. The LL could rent out the space separately.

There's no demand for parking as the complex is out of the town.

Dempsey

How does the law side with someone installing a device onto a car without permission then making the unaware car owner legally responsible for the device?

ted1

Dempsey wrote: »

How does the law side with someone installing a device onto a car without permission then making the unaware car owner legally responsible for the device?

There are signs there.

endacl

M94 wrote: »

Because I live there.

So, speak to your landlord, with whom you, personally, have a landlord-tenant relationship, and get it sorted.

Del2005

Dempsey wrote: »

How does the law side with someone installing a device onto a car without permission then making the unaware car owner legally responsible for the device?

Same as the attachment of the device to the vehicle, legal gray area. No one is willing to spend the money to resolve it through the courts and the government are rushing legislation through the Dail as we speak, so expect legislation when no one drives anymore.

blackwhite

Johnnyhpipe wrote: »

Doesn't matter. The gardai told me once its on your car, you become responsible for it. So don't go for the grinder.

Criminal damage (as the name suggests) is criminal, not civil, matter. Any prosecution for criminal damage would have to prove that you, beyond reasonable doubt, were responsible for any damage.

A clamp being attached to an unattended vehicle wouldn't constitute proof that you ever even say the clamp, never mind touched it.

The Garda was most likely giving you advice that would mean the least trouble for him in future.

tuisginideach

M94 wrote: »

I pay rent and have my things there and spend some evenings there what else? The owner knows about this.

Does the landlord receive your rent or do you pay it to your girlfriend to spend as she wishes?

Dempsey

ted1 wrote: »

There are signs there.

Putting up a sign doesnt change the law of the land

ted1

Dempsey wrote: »

Putting up a sign doesnt change the law of the land

By parking there implies that you agree to a contract.
So in the eyes of the law yes it's legal.

It's like putting petrol in a car , it implies that the shopkeeper accepts your offer to pay him the rate displayed

Dempsey

ted1 wrote: »

By parking there implies that you agree to a contract.
So in the eyes of the law yes it's legal.

It's like putting petrol in a car , it implies that the shopkeeper accepts your offer to pay him the rate displayed

Clamping on private property is not covered by legislation so any implied contract is not legal.

ted1

Dempsey wrote: »

Clamping on private property is not covered by legislation so any implied contract is not legal.

Most contracts happen on private property are you trying to say that they are not legal.

Dempsey

ted1 wrote: »

Most contracts happen on private property are you trying to say that they are not legal.

Dont start acting daft now, you know exactly what I said.

The act of clamping other people's cars on private property is not covered by any current legislation in Ireland so any implied contract described in any sign is not legal under Irish Law.

Is that clear enough?

ted1

Dempsey wrote: »

Dont start acting daft now, you know exactly what I said.

The act of clamping other people's cars on private property is not covered by any current legislation in Ireland so any implied contract described in any sign is not legal under Irish Law.

Is that clear enough?

So if I enter a car park that has prices displayed and a barrier an I or am I not entering into a contract?

Dempsey

ted1 wrote: »

So if I enter a car park that has prices displayed and a barrier an I or am I not entering into a contract?

Again, thats not what I said and strawman arguments are not going to give you any credibility.

ted1

Is paid parking on private land covered u see legislation?

Would implied contracts not be a catch all or do they have to legislate for every possible individual scenario?

Del2005

Dempsey wrote: »

Dont start acting daft now, you know exactly what I said.

The act of clamping other people's cars on private property is not covered by any current legislation in Ireland so any implied contract described in any sign is not legal under Irish Law.

Is that clear enough?

If there is no legislation then its covered by normal laws, so it's neither illegal or legal to clamp on private property.
If you want a definitive answer then you need to spend money to take a case and create a precedent. Until someone does, or legislation is implemented, then there's nothing illegal about clamping and signs are a valid notice for a contract to apply, you can't enter a contract that denies your rights which is why the "We accept no responsibility for damages" signs are invalid.