Leaking slatted tank

Farmerjohn1234

Hi lad my tank is filling up wit watet when there is no animals in as of yet dose anyone no how to check for crack in the wall with out having to go in as that would not be such a good idea our is going in the only way of checking tank for leaks.

blue5000

How old is it? If it's fairly new it might just need a blob of mastic where the pipes holding the shutters were. You have to empty it and see if there's any damp patches along a wall.

Welcome to boards.

Farmerjohn1234

Its about 15 years old so not that new

grassroot1

Are you sure its not coming in over the top of the wall. If it has not leaked for 15 years I would doubt it should just start now. Downpipes,water fittings or fresh excavation in the yard any of these can affect it

Farmerjohn1234

No i have stopped the over flow from the wash up in the milking parlour and directed all shots and down pipes away. The only thing is were i am has springs poppng up in new places every couple of years

patsy_mccabe

Is it possible to drain away the water table from around the outside of the tank. Easiest and cheapest solution. Someone mentioned on here before that if a tank is leaking out, rather than in, then the tank should seal itself over time with the solids in the slurry. Don't know if it's true.

Farmerjohn1234

No not possible the way the yard is layed out. Checked the depth of it earlier and it has come up a foot and a half at lest in the last 2 weeks and no rain to speak of in that time

longgonesilver

If it was leaking at that rate all summer it would be continually overflowing.

Have you checked to see if it is pumped water? Do you have a leaking joint? or has a rat cut a pipe?

If you got an inspection lamp that would fit through the slats you might be able to see a 'run' on the wall or a ripple on the surface where the water is entering.

Farmerjohn1234

I have emptied it twice this year thought it was stuff like i said above just trying to eliminate each option looks like lamp is my next course of action

Signpost

Empty it out and in with the flashlight I'd be thinking, just make sure you have a rope around your waist and a few lads above just in case!

patsy_mccabe

Ah here. Don't go into the tank. Madness.

Signpost

Wouldnt go having a rave down there or anything but if its empty no real issue with going in? Gasses stay low so not the most dangerous thing that happens around the place. Not encouraging anyone to go down for the sake of it but if necessity dictates

Good loser

Farmerjohn1234 wrote: »

I have emptied it twice this year thought it was stuff like i said above just trying to eliminate each option looks like lamp is my next course of action

Probably. What if the problem is in the floor?

If water was leaking in from the watertable it should only rise to the level of that water, which would be higher in Winter. If water leaks in it should leak out. I once had a leak and it came out through blocks (plastered) in chambers at both ends of the tank - these had weakened over time.
New plastering with waterproofer in the mix fixed the problem.

Odelay

Off the wall suggestion, maybe talk to dynorod or the sewer lads? They solve many different sewer/cracked pipes problems. They don't just do sucking and ridding pipes.
Any of the professional lads should have the equipment for confined spaces, especially after the sad case about the two brothers that lost their life in a sewer a couple of years ago.
Might sound extreme, but a slatted tank is not that different to a sewer, the big companies will be well used to that kind of work, it may cost, but they should identify the problem in half a day. This kind if work is what they do everyday.
Getting a professional in once is cheaper in the longterm than fluting around with lads and a rope around your waist.

Farmerjohn1234

Going in is the last i want to do but is there any other way of checking

pedigree 6

If you can get someone with one of those sewer rod cameras and stick it down between the slats.

Do not go into the tank.
Stupidest thing I've ever heard.
The slurry gas is heavier than air and the tank will be full of it.
I know lads that have done it but do you want to risk your life? For what?

Good loser

pedigree 6 wrote: »

If you can get someone with one of those sewer rod cameras and stick it down between the slats.

Do not go into the tank.
Stupidest thing I've ever heard.
The slurry gas is heavier than air and the tank will be full of it.
I know lads that have done it but do you want to risk your life? For what?

If it's only water in it should not be a problem.

Water John

Under NO circumstances go into the tank on a rope or some such, madness.

pedigree 6

Good loser wrote: »

If it's only water in it should not be a problem.

Well then if you're willing to risk your life.
Canary and a cage on a rope first.

Otherwise camera on sewer rods or breathing apparatus on oxygen.

Don't be a dead fool.

freedominacup

I think one of the lining companies would be a better bet. They solve these sorts of problems all the time. They would be fully equipped and insured.

Farmerjohn1234

Thats another idea cos i dont plan on climbing into the tank just in case

Musketeer4

To track down the source of the leak you really need to empty the tank out and do an inspection. after emptying you should power wash the walls and floor so that any leak source will be apparent.

For entering a tank a breathing apparatus should be used. Otherwise it is not safe.

Any farmer who has a slatted shed should really have confined space training and be training in using a breathing apparatus and a gas monitor. Too many people getting killed at this craic.
A rope and a few lads is just not good enough - you'd already be passed out and could have stopped breathing by the time you're pulled from the tank.

If you don't have that then you should look into getting in a contractor who has such training and skills to do investigate it for you.

ptogher14

I'm not a farmer and I can tell you getting onto the tank is particularly bad advice.

I can recall a number of cases in the last few years of incidents involving people getting into tanks.

At the minimum you should have breathing apparatus, gas detection kit, harness, tripod and winch and someone to stay above ground. All are readily available to hire

Farmerjohn1234

Ya i am trying to avoid at all cost having to go in wit out the rite gear no leak is worth my life our anyone elses

Musketeer4

Having the right gear is no good if you are not trained in how to use it properly.

I cannot stress this enough.

If you are thinking of this either get confined space training or else get someone with that skillset already who is experienced in this kind of work.

Getting an experienced person is probably the better option as you can't beat experience.
Any civil engineering or M&E contractor who works on sewage infrastructure will be more than competent to undertake these sorts of inspections and will have a wealth of experience in how cracked or leaking tanks are effectively repaired. I work in a major civil consultancy and I can tell you this for fact.

Sure, it will cost some money if you get an experienced and competent contractor in but at least you know what you are doing is safe and that you will have a quality, lasting repair at the end of if it as compared to you or some other "lads with a rope" going in doing some sort of half assed hatchet job with a mastic gun who might well end up being pulled dead from the tank by the fire brigade.

If something is worth doing at all its worth doing right.

A foot of water in a slurry tank is not even close to worth risking your life for.
Get some cop on lads.

Willfarman

You'd want to fill the tank with water and then empty it to expel harmful gas. Most likely it is the holes in the walls left by the shutters.

farmerjj

How can you fix a leak in a slurry tank, most say don't get into the tank(which is understandable) then how can it be fixed has anyone done this?

Musketeer4

You can't seal the leak without getting in in my opinion.

To have a reliable repair this needs to be done by someone who has the knowledge, skills and experience in doing this kind of work. A contractor working in the water/wastewater treatment industry would be competent.

What you don't want is some amateur circus monkey with a mastic gun and a rope around his waist that'll go into the tank and come out dead. And the tank will still be leaking.

Count Mondego

Willfarman wrote: »

You'd want to fill the tank with water and then empty it to expel harmful gas. Most likely it is the holes in the walls left by the shutters.

Where's the white paper that conducted that study? Some lads are very dramatic when it comes to slurry tanks. I've never heard of a lad dying from entering an empty slurry tank weeks or months after it was emptied, only accidents happening when the tank is being agitated.

muirsin

Feeling weak reading this now. Had this problem few years back and did go in to tank. Never realised danger.Mine was leaking where pins had been in shuttering. Older and wiser and would not do it now

MickeyShtyles

If the tank is empty, would a smoke test be any use?

grassroot1

Stupidity is terminal, hire a professional

Willfarman

grassroot1 wrote: »

Stupidity is terminal, hire a professional

I wouldn't even let wee Daniel have a look so I wouldn't!

Farmerjohn1234

muirsin wrote: »

Feeling weak reading this now. Had this problem few years back and did go in to tank. Never realised danger.Mine was leaking where pins had been in shuttering. Older and wiser and would not do it now

What sealed the leaks for u?

Who2

Farmerjohn1234 wrote: »

What sealed the leaks for u?

There is a mastic that can be used in some instances. There's a chemical that can be injected into the walls and there's a type of render mix that can be used to patch bad spots. A leaking tank that's been emptied the last six months isn't going to have a big build up of gases, I'm not getting into an argument on this one but most on here are advising not to get in the tank; I'd have to wonder how many would follow their own advice in the same situation.

Odelay

Who2 wrote: »

There is a mastic that can be used in some instances. There's a chemical that can be injected into the walls and there's a type of render mix that can be used to patch bad spots. A leaking tank that's been emptied the last six months isn't going to have a big build up of gases, I'm not getting into an argument on this one but most on here are advising not to get in the tank; I'd have to wonder how many would follow their own advice in the same situation.

Would you send your own son or daughter in to do it?

patsy_mccabe

One breath of Hydrogen Sulphide is all it takes.

Who2

Odelay wrote: »

Would you send your own son or daughter in to do it?

No but I'd go down myself and have been in a right few tanks over the years. It's not somewhere I particularly enjoy going but it's sometimes required and has to be done, I'm not here to be convinced or thought the risks I know the risks are there but il try to limit them practically and weigh them up practically rather than getting all excited that all tanks are the same, they aren't.

Count Mondego

Odelay wrote: »

Would you send your own son or daughter in to do it?

I wouldn't send the young lad or daughter in to castrate bulls either, what's your point? There has to be a point in which a tank is safe to inspect.

Count Mondego

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

One breath of Hydrogen Sulphide is all it takes.

I have inspected our tanks every year for the last ten years. By your reckoning I should be long dead. Is Hydrogen Sulphide going to appear all of a sudden in year 11 with all the same feed input variables and spreading practice?

Signpost

If everyone spent so much time thinking about safety as with this thread we would all work in the safest industry in Ireland. Fact of the matter is nearly all of us, me included, take far more significant risks nearly every day without a minutes though. Is it dangerous going into a tank, absolutely. If you think its too dangerous get in professionals. If you want to investigate yourself take precautions and if possible get oxygen and ensure there is people around and there is an escape plan. Until such point as no one takes risks in the day I personally feel tie up the high horse and join the rest of us with reality.
I rang a lad today who knows a fair bit about tanks and he said if you have that much water coming in you will probably have to empty the tank, wash it out to find porus areas and then there is a special mortar you can put on to seal the area but he was of the belief that unless you can divert the flow of water from the outside of the walls your chances or solving the issue are unlikely. Said if you can clean back to nearly floor level on the outside of leaking side you will be able to do a much longer lasting job. Said then as it was open should fill it with drainage pipe and stone to try catch any spring rising so that it wont build up and put pressure on this same area Again this was only on the phone so might be better solutions but just one lads ideas.

FarmerDougal

Have cleaned out tanks with yard scrapper, would only be effluent or water in them, never slurry..always 2 people on the job.

Fixed holes in side wall by chiselling around to get clean conc and a bit of Sitka 4a in mortar.(sets in 60secs) Hole on floor will find a way in somewhere else!

patsy_mccabe

Signpost wrote: »

..... If you want to investigate yourself take precautions and if possible get oxygen and ensure there is people around and there is an escape plan. Until such point as no one takes risks in the day I personally feel tie up the high horse and join the rest of us with reality....

Breathing pure oxygen is poisonous, so you'd have done damage long before you ever entered the tank. Leave it to the experts.:cool:

Signpost

I'd say your best bet would be to fill in the tank, put security barriers all around it and start again. With so many concerned citizens amazed no one has suggested yet that the whole thing could collapse with the weakened structure from where the water is coming in! In reality you should probably just condemn the yard and leave the land...

farmerjj

Signpost wrote: »

I'd say your best bet would be to fill in the tank, put security barriers all around it and start again. With so many concerned citizens amazed no one has suggested yet that the whole thing could collapse with the weakened structure from where the water is coming in! In reality you should probably just condemn the yard and leave the land...

Or maybe just leave boards:)

limo_100

Signpost wrote: »

I'd say your best bet would be to fill in the tank, put security barriers all around it and start again. With so many concerned citizens amazed no one has suggested yet that the whole thing could collapse with the weakened structure from where the water is coming in! In reality you should probably just condemn the yard and leave the land...

good advice I must say but we all don't have bags of money to do as we please. Build a new tank because of a probably pinhole I think your away with the fairies

tanko

limo_100 wrote: »

good advice I must say but we all don't have bags of money to do as we please. Build a new tank because of a probably pinhole I think your away with the fairies

I think it's called sarcasm.

Lady Haywire

limo_100 wrote: »

good advice I must say but we all don't have bags of money to do as we please. Build a new tank because of a probably pinhole I think your away with the fairies

Willfarman

limo_100 wrote: »

good advice I must say but we all don't have bags of money to do as we please. Build a new tank because of a probably pinhole I think your away with the fairies

I believe his post was an attempt at comic satire.. And I do partially see his point. Fatalities seem to usually occur during agitation. When the crust is broken and the most of the gases are released. But the question is do the gases disipate out of an empty tank? Anaecdotal evidence here would indicate that they do.

limo_100

I got burned my bad :mad:

Mooooo

Hydrogen sulfide is heavier than air is it not.? Lads it's up to yer selves but everything is always grand till someone is killed. Don't want to be bringing individual cases into it bit wasn't the spence family tragedy a case of going into a near empty tank to get a dog?
If ye are still insistent on going in at least get one of those monitors that can detect the hydrogen sulfide.