Tiles have fallen off Bathroom wall of rented property. Who's job is it to fix it?

Chef Tony

I'm a student living with 4 others. A few days ago a friend was over in the house and leaned on the bathroom sink causing it to lean forward and 2 of the tiles above it fall off. He called us in and as we attempted to put them back on, more and more fell off until a total of about 20 or so fell, some of them breaking. He apoligised and bought new tiles and adhesive to fix them. We were originally going to fix the job ourselves but we are now concerned that once we start touching it, it will just get more damaged, and more tiles will fall off.

Will we have to pay for all repairs as it was caused by carelessness, despite is being a very poorly done job to begin with? Is it our responsibility to call a tiler to repair it or should we just contact the landlord?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, but it is our first time being tenants.

Ray Palmer

Chef Tony wrote: »

I'm a student living with 4 others. A few days ago a friend was over in the house and leaned on the bathroom sink causing it to lean forward and 2 of the tiles above it fall off. He called us in and as we attempted to put them back on, more and more fell off until a total of about 20 or so fell, some of them breaking. He apoligised and bought new tiles and adhesive to fix them. We were originally going to fix the job ourselves but we are now concerned that once we start touching it, it will just get more damaged, and more tiles will fall off.

Will we have to pay for all repairs as it was caused by carelessness, despite is being a very poorly done job to begin with? Is it our responsibility to call a tiler to repair it or should we just contact the landlord?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, but it is our first time being tenants.

That is you who gets it fixed to the standard and apperehance beforehand. Inform the landlord so he can check the work is carried out correctly.

A guest of yours did the damage and if had done nothing the tiles would be still up. If you ever took tiles off a wall you would know once you get one off others can come off very easily. Then others are absolutely terrible to get off.

It isn't a massive expense but I can't see any reason the landlord pays.

Michael D Not Higgins

Ring the landlord and explain what happened. They are the first port of call. They may not want students with no tiling experience sticking up any old tiles in the bathroom and will probably get a tradesman in to do the job. You should come to some agreement with the landlord on covering at least part of the cost of repair, depending on the level of disrepair of the previous tiles (e.g. I wouldn't expect you to cover the full cost of the tiling if the old ones were 15 years old).

maximum12

If twenty tiles fell off it sounds like there's an underlying issue not caused by your friend. Properly fitted tiles are very difficult to remove, they don't just cascade off the wall.

Ms Doubtfire1

It's for the LL to fix and pay for in normal cases.Not sure in yours..it takes an awful lot of weight to get a bathroom sink to lean forward>.?

Michael D Not Higgins

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

It's for the LL to fix and pay for in normal cases.Not sure in yours..it takes an awful lot of weight to get a bathroom sink to lean forward>.?

Yes the landlord must pay for it but the tenant may be liable for damage above wear and tear. The original condition and nature of the damage would be taken into account for this.

Ray Palmer

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Yes the landlord must pay for it but the tenant may be liable for damage above wear and tear. The original condition and nature of the damage would be taken into account for this.

Not true at all. The tenant pays for anything they damage beyond wear and tear. Tile will come off in bunches if some tiles are taken off. The OP has clearly stated this damage was caused by them and are completely liable there is no aboguity here. They pay full costs. Can't believe there is even a discussion.

Ms Doubtfire1

I wouldn't be too sure of that. tiles in my house came off and when i checked the glue lots of other tiles came off - it was the LL duty to repair and pay for.
In reality, I would just put them back up myself cause it's an easy enough job.

Michael D Not Higgins

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Not true at all. The tenant pays for anything they damage beyond wear and tear. Tile will come off in bunches if some tiles are taken off. The OP has clearly stated this damage was caused by them and are completely liable there is no aboguity here. They pay full costs. Can't believe there is even a discussion.

Isn't that what I said? My thinking is that it's a student house and the tiles are probably not great in the first instance (could be wrong on that), but replacing brand new tiles into a bathroom will not be a like for like replacement in most cases.

I already suggested the OP agree what costs to be paid with the landlord. Of course if they're new tiles in a newly renovated bathroom they'd be liable for the lot but if they're old, and perhaps a contributory factor in the cascade of tiles, the landlord will probably be amenable to a partial covering of the cost.

seamus

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Can't believe there is even a discussion.

There's a discussion because most people would agree that this thing shouldn't happen if you "lean" on a sink.
I mean if the guy was just leaning on it while he looked into the mirror, then it's fair to say that the sink was poorly installed and the full costs are the landlord's problem.

But if he was using it for "balance" while he was getting to know some young lady in the toilet, or he was absolutely off his face and hauling out of the thing in an attempt to stay upright, then you would say the costs are OP's problem.

The tenant pays for accidental or negligent damage. But not for poor installation work. One could also argue that a sink and tiles coming loose are a form of wear & tear, as these things may happen over time.

pilly

It all depends on how long you are there and what kind of relationship you have with the LL. If you're only there a while I personally would just get it repaired yourselves because otherwise it will appear as if you are wrecking the house after only moving in.

However if you have been there a good while and have had no other problems with the LL then I'm sure a reasonable discussion where you accept the blame but say you didn't want to do anything without telling him might be the best course of action. He may say there was a problem before and compromise somehow?

pilly

And are any of you any good at tiling? If you're not then get someone who is in to do it, shouldn't cost too much.

Ray Palmer

It is extremely simple, tiles on the wall person admits to causing the damage by leaning on the sink. Not the landlords fault or responsibility. Unless the OP comes back and makes all the claims of poorly maintained tiles and dogs sink the facts are the damage was caused by the guest therfore sole responsibility lies with the tenants as far as the landlord is concerned.
There is no discussion needed unless the facts stated change.

volchitsa

If loads of tiles are falling off, doesn't that sound like possible damp issues?

(Unless as someone suggested, the amount of "leaning" being done was way beyond what would be normal for a sink.)

Graham

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is extremely simple, tiles on the wall person admits to causing the damage by leaning on the sink. Not the landlords fault or responsibility. Unless the OP comes back and makes all the claims of poorly maintained tiles and dogs sink the facts are the damage was caused by the guest therfore sole responsibility lies with the tenants as far as the landlord is concerned.
There is no discussion needed unless the facts stated change.

The fact that so many tiles came off the wall so easily would suggest they weren't securely fixed in the first place. In which case it's not unreasonable that the landlord shares the costs of fixing.

OP is trying to do the right thing here, working out who/where the responsibility lies while also trying to avoid making things worse.

Pim Pictus

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is extremely simple, tiles on the wall person admits to causing the damage by leaning on the sink. Not the landlords fault or responsibility. Unless the OP comes back and makes all the claims of poorly maintained tiles and dogs sink the facts are the damage was caused by the guest therfore sole responsibility lies with the tenants as far as the landlord is concerned.
There is no discussion needed unless the facts stated change.

I knocked four tiles off in our bathroom recently. Behind the tiles is completely damp and there is rotting wood under the window. I caused the tiles to fall off but I won't be paying for the rest.

Del2005

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

the tiles are probably not great in the first instance (could be wrong on that), but replacing brand new tiles into a bathroom will not be a like for like replacement in most cases.

I already suggested the OP agree what costs to be paid with the landlord. Of course if they're new tiles in a newly renovated bathroom they'd be liable for the lot but if they're old, and perhaps a contributory factor in the cascade of tiles, the landlord will probably be amenable to a partial covering of the cost.

What difference does it make if the tiles are new or old? Tiles on walls don't wear out so never need to be replaced unless for cosmetic reasons or damage, there's no stipulation that tiles have to look nice. The OP caused the damage so they are responsible for repairing the damage.

Making the sink come away from the wall takes a lot of pressure, they are generally very soundly fixed. Pulling off the sink might also have damaged the plaster above it, and this could be what affected the tiles.

It seems to me that if the sink hadn't been pulled off the tiles would still be on the wall. Therefore its for you to pay to fix it.

Michael D Not Higgins

Del2005 wrote: »

What difference does it make if the tiles are new or old? Tiles on walls don't wear out so never need to be replaced unless for cosmetic reasons or damage, there's no stipulation that tiles have to look nice. The OP caused the damage so they are responsible for repairing the damage.

Because the older the tiles are the more likely contributory factors from wear and tear come into play. It's an open question which requires mutual agreement between the landlord and tenant on the amount to be respectively covered.

TheChizler

Unless the friend was practically sitting on the sink I wouldn't be blaming them fully. Leaning on the sink would be a perfectly reasonable thing to do in most circumstances and shouldn't cause the sink to move or the wall to come apart..

Is there possibly plywood behind the tiles which has warped due to moisture over time?

handlemaster

A guest pulls sink off the wall and its the landlord who has to pay ! Tenants are gas.... sure it was poorly put up tiles that were the issue not the guest

GreenFolder2

Sounds like there's something seriously wrong with how the sink is mounted.

handlemaster

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

Sounds like there's something seriously wrong with how the sink is mounted.

In what way ? the guest admitted to pulling it off by leaning on it ::

noodler

handlemaster wrote: »

In what way ? the guest admitted to pulling it off by leaning on it ::

He admired to putting some weight on it.

Seems bizarre to me that this could happen tbh.

GreenFolder2

handlemaster wrote: »

In what way ? the guest admitted to pulling it off by leaning on it ::

Sinks should be able to take normal use, including being leaned on pretty heavily They should not be loosely mounted, it's very dangerous.

It sounds like it's not mounted properly on the wall / on the pedestal and has pushed the tiles out of position.

handlemaster

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

Sinks should be able to take normal use, including being leaned on pretty heavily They should not be loosely mounted, it's very dangerous.

It sounds like it's not mounted properly on the wall / on the pedestal and has pushed the tiles out of position.

Did the OP say it was losely mounted ?

pilly

TheChizler wrote: »

Unless the friend was practically sitting on the sink I wouldn't be blaming them fully. Leaning on the sink would be a perfectly reasonable thing to do in most circumstances and shouldn't cause the sink to move or the wall to come apart..

Is there possibly plywood behind the tiles which has warped due to moisture over time?

I can't remember the last time I leaned on a sink now I have to say.

TheDoc

Is it any wonder the market is a mess when you have such conflict of advise. And doesn't help with that poster saying there is no discussion when there clearly is.

Tiles don't collapse from a wall, like dominos, from leaning on a sink. That is either wear or tear or terrible installation, neither or which is the tenants responsibility. That a guest triggered the incident, doesn't mean they are immediately liable. That's like me turning on the heat and my boiler breaking, and being told it's my fault for turning on the heat.

OP said guest "leaned" on the sink causing it to "lean forward". So why are we all of a sudden saying the sink got reefed of the wall?

I'd be ringing my landlord and advising what happened, someone leaned on the sink and the bloody bathroom came apart. Your guest was good enough to buy replacement tiles already, so just ask the landlord how he wants to proceed. If OP is being genuine with the story, and the guest wasn't lamping some girl on the sink, or pissed and put all his weight onto it or into it, then I wouldn't be accepting liability for the costs if it was never done properly in the first place.

TheDoc

handlemaster wrote: »

In what way ? the guest admitted to pulling it off by leaning on it ::

Where was this said?

OP stated the sink leaned forward by leaning on it. That it came lose and loads of tiles came off indeed a clear issue with either severe wear and tear or the initial install/build was done by a numpty.

TheDoc

handlemaster wrote: »

A guest pulls sink off the wall and its the landlord who has to pay ! Tenants are gas.... sure it was poorly put up tiles that were the issue not the guest

Where are you getting this "guest pulled it of the wall".

OP said he leaned on it, like so many people do on sinks, and started leaning off the wall.

If the OP filled up the sink with water, and it happened, is the tenant "gas" for having the audacity to use a sink as intended?

pilly

TheDoc wrote: »

Where are you getting this "guest pulled it of the wall".

OP said he leaned on it, like so many people do on sinks, and started leaning off the wall.

If the OP filled up the sink with water, and it happened, is the tenant "gas" for having the audacity to use a sink as intended?

OP stated that the guest admitted he was at fault and bought new tiles and adhesive to fix it so I think it was more than your normal leaning. Not that I would normally lean on a sink, I don't understand why you would.

Graham

pilly wrote: »

OP stated that the guest admitted he was at fault

No he didn't.

pilly

Chef Tony wrote: »

I'm a student living with 4 others. A few days ago a friend was over in the house and leaned on the bathroom sink causing it to lean forward and 2 of the tiles above it fall off. He called us in and as we attempted to put them back on, more and more fell off until a total of about 20 or so fell, some of them breaking. He apoligised and bought new tiles and adhesive to fix them. We were originally going to fix the job ourselves but we are now concerned that once we start touching it, it will just get more damaged, and more tiles will fall off.

Will we have to pay for all repairs as it was caused by carelessness, despite is being a very poorly done job to begin with? Is it our responsibility to call a tiler to repair it or should we just contact the landlord?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, but it is our first time being tenants.

See above Graham.

Graham

pilly wrote: »

See above Graham.

I've read the posts and they suggest the guest was apologetic and felt guilty about the damage. The OP feels it was carelessness combined with the originally poor state of the tiling.

pilly

If someone could explain to me the reasons for leaning on a sink I might understand this. :-))

Graham

pilly wrote: »

If someone could explain to me the reasons for leaning on a sink I might understand this. :-))

Does it really make a difference?

Assuming we take 'leaning' at face value and not interpret it to mean sitting/riding/sleeping on it, it shouldn't come away from the wall if it is properly secured.

Ms Doubtfire1

TheDoc wrote: »

If OP is being genuine with the story, and the guest wasn't lamping some girl on the sink, .

oh i spat my tea out at that lol.Thanks for the laugh. sorry for off topic :D:D

pilly

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

oh i spat my tea out at that lol.Thanks for the laugh. sorry for off topic :D:D

It was exactly what I was thinking and didn't want to say. :D

endacl

Blu Tac. Be grand.

Michael D Not Higgins

endacl wrote: »

Blu Tac. Be grand.

Mod: helpful posts please. This isn't After Hours.

GreenFolder2

handlemaster wrote: »

Did the OP say it was losely mounted ?

Is this some kind of grilling interview?
:eek:

TheDoc

pilly wrote: »

If someone could explain to me the reasons for leaning on a sink I might understand this. :-))

I put one hand on my sink and lean while I brush my teeth. That would be the most common one I'd do and I do it every day. Not a bother.

There would also be periods where I'd have both hands on the sink, leaning forward looking in the mirror, questioning what I'm doing with my life.

That is some pretty heavy **** and the bathroom doesn't collapse around me

handlemaster

TheDoc wrote: »

Where are you getting this "guest pulled it of the wall".

OP said he leaned on it, like so many people do on sinks, and started leaning off the wall.

If the OP filled up the sink with water, and it happened, is the tenant "gas" for having the audacity to use a sink as intended?

they pulled it off the wall by leaning on it. tenants pay end of story

runawaybishop

handlemaster wrote: »

they pulled it off the wall by leaning on it. tenants pay end of story

Not end of story in the slightest. Tiles should not fall off the wall, nor should sinks. I would check that the wall isn't ruined with rot causing the tiles and sink to become loose.

handlemaster

runawaybishop wrote: »

Not end of story in the slightest. Tiles should not fall off the wall, nor should sinks. I would check that the wall isn't ruined with rot causing the tiles and sink to become loose.

OP doesnt mention an issue with said sink or tiling before the guest moved it off the wall. Any sink will come off if you put to much weight on it. Tenants will pay for the damage theres reason to pretend other wise

runawaybishop

handlemaster wrote: »

OP doesnt mention an issue with said sink or tiling before the guest moved it off the wall. Any sink will come off if you put to much weight on it. Tenants will pay for the damage theres reason to pretend other wise

The op also didn't mention the guest leaping on the sink, merely leaning on it. Given that tiles also fell off the wall, which they shouldn't, it is possible there is an issue with the wall.

handlemaster

runawaybishop wrote: »

The op also didn't mention the guest leaping on the sink, merely leaning on it. Given that tiles also fell off the wall, which they shouldn't, it is possible there is an issue with the wall.

In fairness a guest just wouldnt say that. .. I would assume the property is not a new build and that the sink has had thousands of visits without incident before... why ? The landlord will not pay for this

runawaybishop

handlemaster wrote: »

In fairness a guest just wouldnt say that. .. I would assume the property is not a new build and that the sink has had thousands of visits without incident before... why ? The landlord will not pay for this

The guest wrecking the sink doesn't explain the tiles falling off. Tiles won't just fall off unless there is an underlying issue.

greendom

handlemaster wrote: »

In fairness a guest just wouldnt say that. .. I would assume the property is not a new build and that the sink has had thousands of visits without incident before... why ? The landlord will not pay for this

We all know what assuming does. Without the full facts from the OP we shouldn't be jumping to conclusions.

JustAThought

This is why you have parties in other peoples houses.!! Tbh they sound like they trying to do the right thing & are good honest people & a decent landlord will appreciate that. I'd call him & let hime know because there is nothing as bad as a bad tiling job and if s/he will notice random new and off-matching tiles when it comes to the deposit check/house review.

Tbh if the sink rocks when you touch it & was like that pre-lean than this is a landlord issue thT should have alteady been addressed - if the tiles were so loosely stuck on with so little paste that they all cascaded off and smashed this might be of interest to the landlord who probably didn't know how slipshod a job his previous tiler (or students!) did!

My first thought was party gone pearshaped and my next one was loose sink and damp wall. If it was me I wouldn't go al legalistic on the landlord but would give him/her a call and explain & say you'd bought adhesive but some tiles were broken & could s/he come round & have a look & see what sution you can agree. S/he can't agree anything without seeing and a rocking sink would be the greater concern - sinks if they fall and smash - now they ARE expensive to fix. If I was talking to the LL the only part of the story I might edit is the friend and why he was leaning on the sink. Please din't tell me he was using it as a seat/toilet :0

handlemaster

greendom wrote: »

handlemaster wrote: »

In fairness a guest just wouldnt say that. .. I would assume the property is not a new build and that the sink has had thousands of visits without incident before... why ? The landlord will not pay for this

We all know what assuming does. Without the full facts from the OP we shouldn't be jumping to conclusions.

Going on what the OP has said the tenants will be paying